1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,010 Oh, podcasting 2.0 for October 16 2020 This is episode number 2 00:00:05,010 --> 00:00:06,750 seven. Tag your 3 00:00:12,570 --> 00:00:16,950 end of the week, once again, Adam curry along with the man 4 00:00:16,950 --> 00:00:21,600 with the code of gold diamond Dave Jones, everybody. I'm 5 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:25,680 giving you your WWE entrance, man. Come on, take it. Take it. 6 00:00:25,710 --> 00:00:27,750 I don't know what you're gonna do with this stuff when you 7 00:00:27,750 --> 00:00:32,280 start like, Tag you're it. That's, that's radio go baby. 8 00:00:33,660 --> 00:00:38,010 Here we are, it is the 16th It's a Friday, another week and at 9 00:00:38,010 --> 00:00:40,740 time for another meeting of the Board of Directors of podcast 10 00:00:40,740 --> 00:00:45,390 index.org Since we conduct all our business on the show, it's 11 00:00:45,390 --> 00:00:49,380 where it's where we update each other on the past seven days. 12 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:53,520 And now it's just been busy in general for me, I think you've 13 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:55,140 had a pretty busy week two right Dave? 14 00:00:55,949 --> 00:00:59,099 Yeah, yeah, it's been it's it's been crazy. He's been full. I 15 00:00:59,099 --> 00:01:01,739 mean, I've got I was telling you a while ago, I've got like a 16 00:01:01,889 --> 00:01:05,009 desk full of paper here. I mean, there's just so much crap to 17 00:01:05,009 --> 00:01:07,919 talk about. I mean, this may be like a frickin three hour show. 18 00:01:07,919 --> 00:01:08,369 I don't know 19 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,640 now that's okay. Tina has a friend over on the deck. So I'm 20 00:01:11,670 --> 00:01:14,580 I'm gold man. I can I was gonna hide here anyway. 21 00:01:15,270 --> 00:01:20,640 That intro music is is like emotionally confusing. Real is 22 00:01:20,670 --> 00:01:26,100 really you get you get. What happens is you have this killer 23 00:01:26,220 --> 00:01:31,140 intro music. And then we talk we read a namespace. 24 00:01:33,630 --> 00:01:37,650 Who's who said tech couldn't be sexy man. There's nothing wrong 25 00:01:37,650 --> 00:01:40,590 with that. I'm waiting for one of the rock guys to put maybe 26 00:01:40,590 --> 00:01:43,860 the country guys to put together a song with no namespace tags. 27 00:01:43,980 --> 00:01:44,580 It can be done. 28 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:49,890 Well, I thought all week I'm like, Okay, how can we make this 29 00:01:49,890 --> 00:01:54,330 episode even more boring. Oh, and last week's episode, and I 30 00:01:54,330 --> 00:02:01,140 thought, okay, we can talk about JSON. All righty then. Like, I 31 00:02:01,140 --> 00:02:03,960 mean, that said that sounded like a look at this is a 32 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:07,410 masterclass in how to shrink your audience. 33 00:02:08,010 --> 00:02:11,640 Right? Yes. Keep it as small as possible. Dave tight. Yeah. 34 00:02:12,180 --> 00:02:13,920 Really tight audience. It's like, 35 00:02:14,070 --> 00:02:16,710 you have those apple in show stats where it shows you It's 36 00:02:16,710 --> 00:02:20,160 like they just wrote now. It's flatline. It's flatline. They're 37 00:02:20,190 --> 00:02:21,270 gone. They're gone. Alright, 38 00:02:21,269 --> 00:02:24,209 we're not even on Apple. I, you know, I never resubmitted once 39 00:02:24,209 --> 00:02:27,329 we got the artwork, I guess I shouldn't do it. It's almost out 40 00:02:27,329 --> 00:02:32,759 of my mind, weirdly enough. For me, I still use overcast. 41 00:02:33,209 --> 00:02:36,629 Because I'm kind of stuck for the security features on iOS. 42 00:02:36,749 --> 00:02:41,849 And I'm using a Apple iPhone seven, which I use around the 43 00:02:41,849 --> 00:02:44,369 house. Because I need speed when 44 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,160 this kind of stuff we're doing overcast still works on the 45 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:47,610 seven. 46 00:02:47,970 --> 00:02:50,760 Yeah, works great on the seven and the seven is really the 47 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:55,620 lowest number that will support the the Bluetooth spec for my 48 00:02:55,620 --> 00:02:58,260 hearing aids. That's really that's really the main reason 49 00:02:58,260 --> 00:03:01,020 yeah, because I can stream everything to my hearing aids. 50 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:03,540 So I can be talking to you, but I could have classical music 51 00:03:03,540 --> 00:03:07,440 going on the background. Or if I jump into a podcast, then jump 52 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:11,070 on a call, I mean, constantly basically have earbuds in but I 53 00:03:11,070 --> 00:03:13,860 don't know they're in because they're so small and 54 00:03:13,860 --> 00:03:16,740 lightweight. So yeah, it's cool problem to have. It's actually 55 00:03:16,770 --> 00:03:20,760 you know, just being an audio guy, because I have direct 56 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:25,620 access to 32 channels of compressor limiter across the 57 00:03:25,620 --> 00:03:29,640 spectrum from my heat. So I have a podcast sound on my hearing 58 00:03:29,640 --> 00:03:30,060 aids. 59 00:03:30,630 --> 00:03:33,750 That's insane. Dad wears hearing aids and it's like, I mean, it 60 00:03:33,750 --> 00:03:36,930 took him forever to get he started wearing them years ago 61 00:03:36,930 --> 00:03:39,600 and it took him forever to get this stuff dialed in. Right and 62 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:41,940 they never were right. And it's just crazy. Yeah, 63 00:03:41,940 --> 00:03:44,610 well, I hate to say it, but these are not your dad's hearing 64 00:03:44,610 --> 00:03:50,610 aids. Yeah. This new stuff. I've got dual quad processors hanging 65 00:03:50,610 --> 00:03:55,920 off each ear. Not kidding ASIC you know they got specific chips 66 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:58,920 just to do this. They've zero latency. 67 00:04:00,330 --> 00:04:01,560 Can you mind Bitcoin with 68 00:04:02,910 --> 00:04:09,210 ears get warm? That would be cool. Just while you're walking 69 00:04:09,210 --> 00:04:10,890 around. What are you doing? I'm mining Bitcoin. 70 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:14,760 Adam, your your ears. Your left ear smoking. 71 00:04:15,570 --> 00:04:20,400 Looks like your coins about to drop. Exactly. Exactly. So just 72 00:04:20,430 --> 00:04:24,960 taking a moment here, Dave. We're Episode Seven. Really only 73 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:30,240 two months that we've been doing this. Congratulations to you on 74 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:36,060 how expertly you have steered and commandeered and just you 75 00:04:36,060 --> 00:04:40,350 know, it's like everybody loves Dave and I love like seeing that 76 00:04:40,950 --> 00:04:43,440 very good way because you know open source projects can be 77 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:51,120 very, I've been a part of a couple of them. i We all know 78 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:53,910 how they can go but this is just great. And I think a lot of it 79 00:04:53,940 --> 00:04:58,860 has to do with it. Such a pent up energy and enthusiasm from 80 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:03,210 people who have Been working in? I'm gonna say it the podcast 81 00:05:03,210 --> 00:05:09,720 space for a headset. He's known for a while and it's like a 82 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:13,230 cork. And I was like prop and this justice is bubbling 83 00:05:13,230 --> 00:05:17,700 champagne spraying over everything. I love I love seeing 84 00:05:17,700 --> 00:05:20,460 it. It's it's really go 85 00:05:20,460 --> 00:05:25,830 ahead, go play. You got the clips. I Do I Do you This is 86 00:05:25,830 --> 00:05:27,420 perfect. Do I so five. 87 00:05:27,780 --> 00:05:33,540 Alright, so five. Podcasts are cool. Yes, they are. The super 88 00:05:33,540 --> 00:05:34,140 cool. 89 00:05:36,540 --> 00:05:40,800 That is from that is from the podcast. We just lost. Oh, no. 90 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:47,070 Did we just break up is the name of this podcast. So just we lost 91 00:05:47,070 --> 00:05:47,970 them to Spotify. 92 00:05:48,150 --> 00:05:50,640 Oh, they got a deal in there. And they're done. That's it? 93 00:05:51,150 --> 00:05:51,750 Yeah. Well, 94 00:05:51,780 --> 00:05:54,120 I want to talk about I've got some clips from them. I don't 95 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,180 want to talk about them. I think we need to talk about some 96 00:05:57,180 --> 00:05:59,940 namespaces at first, but I want to talk. I want to talk about 97 00:05:59,940 --> 00:06:03,660 that. Because I think we've it's worth analyzing what 98 00:06:03,780 --> 00:06:08,520 I'm sorry. I'm just laughing. To make matters worse. Let's not 99 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:13,380 talk about the cool chicks. Let's talk namespace first. Way 100 00:06:13,380 --> 00:06:14,280 to go, Dave. 101 00:06:15,930 --> 00:06:20,550 Look, it's what everybody's been waiting for. I know. We can't 102 00:06:20,550 --> 00:06:24,180 talk about the fun thing about the boring stuff. 103 00:06:24,180 --> 00:06:29,100 Exactly. Well, I find that fascinating. And of course, I've 104 00:06:29,100 --> 00:06:34,740 been following along at podcast, index dot social, love the 105 00:06:34,740 --> 00:06:39,330 interaction, love all the ideas. And I see a lot of good ideas on 106 00:06:39,330 --> 00:06:43,680 both sides. And then all of a sudden, I see stuff that like 107 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:48,540 gets implemented. And then I'm just Holy, holy crap. What just 108 00:06:48,540 --> 00:06:51,180 happened here? Did we just do in a week? Because literally, we 109 00:06:51,180 --> 00:06:53,400 announced the namespace last week, didn't we? 110 00:06:54,030 --> 00:06:55,410 Yeah, it was last week show. 111 00:06:55,470 --> 00:06:59,640 Yeah. So within one week, we already have some adoption of 112 00:07:00,690 --> 00:07:01,620 the concept. 113 00:07:03,030 --> 00:07:05,580 Not just the concept, but adoption of the actual I mean, 114 00:07:05,580 --> 00:07:10,080 implementation of the actual tags are happening right now. So 115 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:14,820 we, we got two tags formalized. 116 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:18,120 Maybe Maybe I should just back up. If people are just joining 117 00:07:18,930 --> 00:07:21,900 the podcast, and haven't listened from the beginning. 118 00:07:22,530 --> 00:07:25,410 Don't know what RSS is or namespaces you can then turn it 119 00:07:25,410 --> 00:07:25,650 off 120 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,110 or just fast forward to the cool tricky bit, which is coming up 121 00:07:28,110 --> 00:07:34,800 with the what was missing, what was stagnating with imposter 122 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:40,230 podcasting for a decade or more was extended features 123 00:07:40,230 --> 00:07:45,240 extensibility. And a lot of heroes and valiant efforts have 124 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:49,740 been been put on the battlefield to get some form of industry 125 00:07:49,740 --> 00:07:54,180 adoption. And I would say mainly, that would depend upon 126 00:07:54,180 --> 00:07:57,420 buy in from Apple, particularly, and there are new players on the 127 00:07:57,420 --> 00:08:00,960 scene. And you know, there's a lot of organizations have been 128 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:06,720 working on this and trying this. And I think that we just came in 129 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:10,590 and said, I think we're going to do this. And instead of being 130 00:08:10,590 --> 00:08:14,190 governing bodies or is really just people with their hands in 131 00:08:14,190 --> 00:08:17,520 the mud. Then we just said look, why would just give this shot. 132 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:20,640 And then all of a sudden, we heard all these things about the 133 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,640 features people had working in their own environments who had 134 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,970 been wishing for every year. And you know, Santa Claus, bring me 135 00:08:26,970 --> 00:08:30,000 this tag. And we just said, Well, what if we just put it all 136 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,330 in there? And we make everybody happy? And gee, we have an 137 00:08:33,330 --> 00:08:35,790 index, which replicates what all the other guys are doing? 138 00:08:35,790 --> 00:08:39,240 They're like Apple, and why don't we give it a shot? I think 139 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:42,720 you were telling me that, you know, everything outside of 140 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:47,670 apple and Spotify, who else is 40% of the market? Maybe more, 141 00:08:47,670 --> 00:08:49,260 but maybe whatever it is, like 142 00:08:49,260 --> 00:08:52,560 60 was 60 something percent of the podcast player market 143 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:54,930 could be wouldn't surprise me. I 144 00:08:54,930 --> 00:08:56,610 think that's I think that's right. 145 00:08:57,030 --> 00:09:02,580 Well, there's a lot that's outside. I'll take 40% Any day. 146 00:09:03,540 --> 00:09:08,280 Heck yeah. I mean. So it turns out when you when you actually 147 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,660 when you open up the namespace and just say, Hey, everybody, 148 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:19,770 here's here's a here's a spec to get us started. Here's and it 149 00:09:19,770 --> 00:09:22,590 starts off with just the things that everybody already said they 150 00:09:22,590 --> 00:09:27,300 want, right? The it turns out, people want more things also. 151 00:09:27,870 --> 00:09:31,290 Yeah, and it also turns out that people have really good ideas, 152 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:35,970 no q&a, just need a place to write them down in public and 153 00:09:35,970 --> 00:09:39,510 discuss them. And it's really not any more complicated than 154 00:09:39,510 --> 00:09:44,310 that. As far as, you know, my role in this. You know, of 155 00:09:44,310 --> 00:09:47,550 course, I've got ideas too. And I'm a participant like everybody 156 00:09:47,550 --> 00:09:52,170 else, but my, my sort of overseeing role is really just 157 00:09:52,170 --> 00:09:56,010 chaperoning the whole thing, and in to be a tiebreaker if 158 00:09:56,010 --> 00:09:59,040 something you know, if people can't come to a decision, 159 00:09:59,340 --> 00:10:03,000 there's really nothing thing is not more involved in that. I 160 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:07,230 mean, everybody, everybody knows generally what is needed and 161 00:10:07,230 --> 00:10:11,640 what they want, is just working out some of the details. And 162 00:10:12,270 --> 00:10:15,510 what we've been doing, you know, we have been trying to be guided 163 00:10:15,510 --> 00:10:21,150 by Dave went whiners rules for standards makers, which I think 164 00:10:21,330 --> 00:10:25,980 is sort of Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics. Yeah, for this type 165 00:10:25,980 --> 00:10:26,520 of process. 166 00:10:26,550 --> 00:10:30,150 And I completely agree. And I'm glad you posted that on the 167 00:10:30,150 --> 00:10:32,850 Macedon, because I reread it, I'd seen it, of course, I'd 168 00:10:32,850 --> 00:10:37,140 lived it, to a degree with them. And I understand it much better 169 00:10:37,140 --> 00:10:43,980 now. And just to go back to what you said, we don't quite have 170 00:10:43,980 --> 00:10:47,760 the same dog in the hunt, as every other player that's tried 171 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:49,800 to do this. And when I say player, I mean, like, you know, 172 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:53,220 party or whatever. We're coming at it from a very different 173 00:10:53,220 --> 00:10:56,400 standpoint, I don't have anything necessarily, that I 174 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:59,010 need from hosting. I don't I have, I mean, I'm happy with 175 00:10:59,010 --> 00:11:02,310 everything. will ever use transcripts or, um, transcripts. 176 00:11:02,310 --> 00:11:04,410 Yeah. Will I make them? No, I don't know how to do that, you 177 00:11:04,410 --> 00:11:07,950 know, will it be easy for someone to flip me a URL and all 178 00:11:07,950 --> 00:11:10,680 sudden, I got transcripts and an app, I'll be delighted over the 179 00:11:10,680 --> 00:11:13,500 moon. That'll happen. Yeah, that's gonna happen. And that's 180 00:11:13,500 --> 00:11:17,580 what I think, too. And so to me, it's just, it's like, we've 181 00:11:17,580 --> 00:11:21,300 never we had nothing to defend. We had only to gain, it's like, 182 00:11:21,330 --> 00:11:25,410 we're here for you. This is the whole point is to preserve 183 00:11:25,410 --> 00:11:28,530 podcasting as a platform for free speech means we can have 184 00:11:28,530 --> 00:11:32,070 our own little definition of how we do that. The first one is G, 185 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:36,390 here's a thought, let everybody have free speech. And let's free 186 00:11:36,390 --> 00:11:39,480 speech ourselves into a namespace. Yeah, 187 00:11:39,719 --> 00:11:44,309 yeah, that, you know, I think that there's been this stuff has 188 00:11:44,309 --> 00:11:47,339 been tried to, they tried to do this stuff before, with 189 00:11:48,449 --> 00:11:53,939 associations, governing bodies, you know, whatever, whatever you 190 00:11:54,239 --> 00:11:56,999 call it. But all these all these different attempts, you know, 191 00:11:57,179 --> 00:11:59,939 let's start a nonprofit and do this kind of stuff. And that is 192 00:11:59,939 --> 00:12:03,929 just like, we see how this stuff works. We see the product, the 193 00:12:03,929 --> 00:12:08,699 end product you get when you go that route, by creating a body, 194 00:12:08,699 --> 00:12:12,479 a standards body, and then designing a spec in private, and 195 00:12:12,479 --> 00:12:16,259 then just releasing it to the public. And what you get, when 196 00:12:16,259 --> 00:12:19,559 that happens is you get things like the Wi Fi Alliance 197 00:12:19,589 --> 00:12:23,309 standard, oh, which the first, the first couple of revisions of 198 00:12:23,309 --> 00:12:27,149 that thing were horrible, you get Bluetooth. I mean, this 199 00:12:27,149 --> 00:12:30,239 thing's been a mess since day one. We know how this stuff 200 00:12:30,239 --> 00:12:34,469 works. And we also know how stuff works with open source 201 00:12:34,469 --> 00:12:37,289 projects, when you throw something out there, which is a 202 00:12:37,289 --> 00:12:41,459 framework or wireframe for an idea. And then you let people 203 00:12:41,459 --> 00:12:46,169 who have legitimate interest in seeing it succeed. We'll hash 204 00:12:46,169 --> 00:12:51,239 out the details. In his it's much more complete, much more 205 00:12:51,239 --> 00:12:55,229 beautiful of a process, collectively, the podcast, 206 00:12:56,879 --> 00:12:59,579 posts, apps, directories, platforms, you take all those 207 00:12:59,579 --> 00:13:01,979 groups together, and you lump them into what you might call 208 00:13:01,979 --> 00:13:05,129 the podcast industry, or the independent podcast industry. 209 00:13:05,399 --> 00:13:09,989 Together, those people are just as powerful. Yes, as Google, 210 00:13:09,989 --> 00:13:14,219 Spotify, Apple, they have just as much power and just as much 211 00:13:14,219 --> 00:13:20,549 voice, but that it's a loosely coupled group of entities. And 212 00:13:20,549 --> 00:13:26,399 they, this, this namespace in this collective effort here is a 213 00:13:26,399 --> 00:13:31,979 unifying force that exerts specifically, I'll give you and 214 00:13:31,979 --> 00:13:37,889 this is a great, this is one way to get into this. Specifically, 215 00:13:37,919 --> 00:13:43,439 the locked tag. Yes. And Buzzsprout implemented this 216 00:13:43,469 --> 00:13:46,739 today, like three hours ago. 217 00:13:46,890 --> 00:13:50,340 Yeah, that's that's a big deal got released that's putting a 218 00:13:50,340 --> 00:13:51,510 stake in the ground man. 219 00:13:51,990 --> 00:13:56,160 All 300,000 of their feeds now have the locked tag in them. 220 00:13:56,580 --> 00:14:00,090 They are enforcing it and they are enforcing it in their 221 00:14:00,090 --> 00:14:04,020 system. If they don't if they see another feed that somebody 222 00:14:04,020 --> 00:14:07,560 tries to import, and it's in it says locked equals yes, they 223 00:14:07,560 --> 00:14:11,250 won't import it until they unlock it. And they also are 224 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:16,350 locking all of their feeds with this with a tag that that sends 225 00:14:16,350 --> 00:14:22,500 a message to every other player anchor in the industry anchor. 226 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:30,900 Anchor, by the way, and by the way, anchor Please, guys, this 227 00:14:30,900 --> 00:14:33,780 is the way to go. It'd be perfect. It solves your shit in 228 00:14:33,780 --> 00:14:38,520 one pot in one fell swoop. Don't import with a lock tag. No one 229 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:39,690 can complain anymore. 230 00:14:40,170 --> 00:14:42,660 You're done. Your PR your PR problems are over. 231 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:44,370 All right, the press release. 232 00:14:45,780 --> 00:14:50,790 It's not it's not the day it's not that anchor wants people to 233 00:14:51,300 --> 00:14:52,830 do shady so 234 00:14:52,830 --> 00:14:54,120 they didn't have the mechanism. 235 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:58,710 Yet. There you go. There's mechanism. It's right and it's 236 00:14:58,710 --> 00:15:05,490 as easy as ad thing seriously, like 25 bytes to your RSS feed. 237 00:15:06,150 --> 00:15:08,460 And you're done. You don't have to worry about that anymore. 238 00:15:08,820 --> 00:15:12,840 It's it's one line in an RSS feed and a checkbox on your user 239 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:14,460 dashboard. And you're done. 240 00:15:14,490 --> 00:15:16,530 And I think that, you know, however they present that to 241 00:15:16,530 --> 00:15:20,250 their customers, is really going to be kind of the standard 242 00:15:20,250 --> 00:15:24,660 because now I'm, I'm about to say to my RSS hosting company, 243 00:15:24,870 --> 00:15:30,510 which is, oh, that's you, Dave. You listening you've created? 244 00:15:30,510 --> 00:15:32,490 Yes, thank you, great customer service, you know, you've 245 00:15:32,490 --> 00:15:36,270 created the tool that I use to create my RSS feed. I want my 246 00:15:36,270 --> 00:15:37,020 lock tag. 247 00:15:38,220 --> 00:15:41,070 Okay, that's gonna take forever. Not sure I can. 248 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:45,210 I want my lock tag. I mean, I can handle it, of course. But I 249 00:15:45,210 --> 00:15:46,530 still want my lock tag. 250 00:15:46,890 --> 00:15:50,640 The will we'll put it on our owner feature request list we 251 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:51,420 may get to a next 252 00:15:51,420 --> 00:15:53,520 year. Oh, I think like a suit. I love you. 253 00:15:54,540 --> 00:15:59,610 Yeah, that's Guess who did that? That's just one example of 254 00:15:59,790 --> 00:16:03,750 something that, like users problem right now, 255 00:16:03,750 --> 00:16:07,590 and that users can demand users can demand this. It's that 256 00:16:07,590 --> 00:16:08,670 simple. If you're 257 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:11,700 if you're Lipson Yeah, blueberry, do it. Yeah. Just if 258 00:16:11,700 --> 00:16:12,570 you do it right now, 259 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,570 if your feeds getting jacked, or if you're worried about it, 260 00:16:15,810 --> 00:16:19,320 demand that you have that. And then all anchor has to do is 261 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:22,200 say, you know, LOGTAG equals yes, Bork. 262 00:16:22,980 --> 00:16:27,360 Yeah, yeah. And and the thing about this, if if Lipson 263 00:16:27,690 --> 00:16:34,920 blueberry, Captivate transistor, fireside sprout, Buzz, well, 264 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:40,470 they've already done it. They posted G Poppy and you just get 265 00:16:40,740 --> 00:16:46,320 a pod bean. Just go down. If if those group of hosting hosting 266 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:53,070 companies implement the tag, and anchor does not tell you 267 00:16:53,070 --> 00:16:56,070 everything you need to know. Yeah. That that's that's a 268 00:16:56,100 --> 00:17:01,470 that's a way to publicly shame the hosting companies that don't 269 00:17:01,590 --> 00:17:06,480 get DNS DNS has had in me, I think we talked about this on 270 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:06,540 the 271 00:17:06,540 --> 00:17:10,740 very first episode. Yes, yes, yes, we did. We said 272 00:17:10,740 --> 00:17:14,460 let's make podcasting like DNS, where it's its base 273 00:17:14,460 --> 00:17:18,330 infrastructure. And DNS has had this concept of transfer locking 274 00:17:18,360 --> 00:17:25,710 of a domain for 25 years. And that is a simple thing to bring 275 00:17:25,710 --> 00:17:29,970 to the podcasting space. Yeah. Into in, we just did it. And all 276 00:17:29,970 --> 00:17:33,210 you got to do is just now you just have to honor it, and put 277 00:17:33,210 --> 00:17:34,950 it in your feeds. It's super simple. 278 00:17:34,980 --> 00:17:38,730 Thank you, Tom, Tom Rossi and his team. I don't know if he has 279 00:17:38,730 --> 00:17:39,540 a partner, right? 280 00:17:40,050 --> 00:17:42,510 Because Tom and cat, Kevin. Yeah. 281 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:46,170 Thank you for doing that. Thank you for standing up. But that 282 00:17:46,170 --> 00:17:50,370 that means a lot. Really does. That means that means a lot to 283 00:17:50,370 --> 00:17:52,560 me to just person like that means a lot. So it's just 284 00:17:52,590 --> 00:17:55,920 through it. I'm going to do it. I'd love that attitude. 285 00:17:56,490 --> 00:18:01,440 I do too. And it helps to have somebody just jump in and say, 286 00:18:02,490 --> 00:18:06,720 we're going to implement this right now. Yeah. Well, you know, 287 00:18:06,870 --> 00:18:10,050 that's the other tag that has been formalized is the 288 00:18:10,050 --> 00:18:13,290 transcript. transcripts, captions tag. 289 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:16,860 Yeah, that was that was a neat. And I'll use the Warren Beatty 290 00:18:16,980 --> 00:18:20,610 phrase he used about Madonna show, that was a neat little 291 00:18:20,610 --> 00:18:25,020 thread to follow. Because there was a lot of opinions, a lot of 292 00:18:25,050 --> 00:18:28,590 different ideas, some actual experiences, and we're just 293 00:18:28,590 --> 00:18:32,850 gonna see the same thing with the chapters. It's I love seeing 294 00:18:32,850 --> 00:18:36,360 that and it's in you know, like, it was pretty damn civil to 295 00:18:36,390 --> 00:18:37,920 Hello was just nice. 296 00:18:38,340 --> 00:18:46,530 Yeah. And it comes down to an hour. I will credit. Day again, 297 00:18:46,530 --> 00:18:52,710 day one or document. I will credit this. His role for this 298 00:18:52,770 --> 00:18:57,360 for the way that went in. The role in question is, if practice 299 00:18:57,360 --> 00:19:02,190 deviates from the spec, change spec. It's as simple as that. If 300 00:19:02,190 --> 00:19:07,920 you have if you're if you're designing a spec, and you find 301 00:19:07,980 --> 00:19:11,460 that people are already doing that thing that you're trying to 302 00:19:11,460 --> 00:19:15,120 design, and they're doing it a different way, just changed the 303 00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:19,380 spec to reflect what's already being done. Exactly. And so 304 00:19:19,380 --> 00:19:21,990 that's what we did. We were we were designing this, we were we 305 00:19:21,990 --> 00:19:25,350 came up with all these ideas. And then Buzzsprout came in and 306 00:19:25,350 --> 00:19:29,280 said, Hey, guys, we we already have like this exact tag, and 307 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:33,390 guess what it's even called the podcast namespace. They were the 308 00:19:33,390 --> 00:19:37,770 only ones using it. Yeah. And so we said, Great. Show us what 309 00:19:37,770 --> 00:19:40,560 you're doing. And so they showed the tag, they showed all this 310 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:44,190 stuff. And we kind of bashed it out a little bit and said, You 311 00:19:44,190 --> 00:19:47,340 know what we can we can make transcripts and captions both 312 00:19:47,340 --> 00:19:51,600 fit this one tag with just one optional attribute that you add 313 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:55,740 for captions. And that way Buzzsprout doesn't have to 314 00:19:55,740 --> 00:20:00,060 change a single frame. Right, right. Right. But if they They 315 00:20:00,060 --> 00:20:03,750 want if anybody else wants to use it, they can do it. And they 316 00:20:03,750 --> 00:20:08,040 also now it gives them this other option. So you just change 317 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,950 the spec to fit what's actually happening. And you make 318 00:20:10,950 --> 00:20:11,970 developers happy 319 00:20:12,060 --> 00:20:15,060 and ended I simples. That's it. I see pod friend already 320 00:20:15,060 --> 00:20:19,530 supported captions. Yeah, that was crazy. I've shown that to 321 00:20:19,530 --> 00:20:22,560 tea now. Like, remember I was telling you about this morning? 322 00:20:23,820 --> 00:20:26,970 thing? She says, Yeah. And I said, look at this is that pod 323 00:20:26,970 --> 00:20:29,910 friend? So yes. Holy shit. This captions in this? Yeah, that's 324 00:20:29,910 --> 00:20:32,610 like, eight hours later. Something is not Yeah, 325 00:20:32,970 --> 00:20:36,420 he doesn't sleep. I don't know what time what timezone 326 00:20:36,420 --> 00:20:40,350 Denmark's on but they they must be on like 24 hour daylight 327 00:20:40,350 --> 00:20:40,830 right now. 328 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:43,320 Wintertime? Yeah, could be. 329 00:20:45,060 --> 00:20:49,230 Yeah, but no, I mean, he did that, like within a day. It was 330 00:20:49,230 --> 00:20:50,820 perfect. It works just fine. 331 00:20:51,149 --> 00:20:56,639 Yes. Amazing. All right. So since I know, I keep up with 332 00:20:56,639 --> 00:21:01,679 everything I can. I'm also working on phase two of our 333 00:21:01,679 --> 00:21:06,089 mission, which is retooling. Podcasting is a platform of 334 00:21:06,089 --> 00:21:09,089 value. So know that that's, you know, we'll be talking about 335 00:21:09,089 --> 00:21:12,839 that soon. I'd love to get the rundown for you. We already know 336 00:21:12,839 --> 00:21:15,839 about the the captions and the locked. What else do we have on 337 00:21:15,839 --> 00:21:18,719 deck with a namespace? Or you also put a time timeline on it 338 00:21:18,719 --> 00:21:20,249 for phase one lockdown, right? 339 00:21:21,090 --> 00:21:25,830 Well, as I said I was going to and so the time the timeline in 340 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,970 this just this is just has to be the way it goes. Okay? Again, 341 00:21:30,150 --> 00:21:33,990 rules for standards makers, you have to set timelines or else 342 00:21:33,990 --> 00:21:36,750 things never get done. Right. So I'll just read it. Yeah. How 343 00:21:36,750 --> 00:21:41,970 about that? Okay. So it says at some point, when the new ideas 344 00:21:41,970 --> 00:21:44,850 are slow to a trickle, and as a base of compatible software 345 00:21:44,850 --> 00:21:48,900 developed freeze the spec, but provide an extension mechanism. 346 00:21:48,900 --> 00:21:52,320 So new ideas have an outlet, developers need a foundation to 347 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,140 build on one that's fixed and not moving. So that's what we're 348 00:21:55,140 --> 00:22:01,500 doing. The new ideas and the voices surrounding transcripts, 349 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:07,170 captions, and the locking tag, those there really wasn't much 350 00:22:07,170 --> 00:22:10,800 else there. So we went ahead and finalized, we formalized those 351 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:16,110 two tags, because they're important. And there was nothing 352 00:22:16,110 --> 00:22:20,430 really else to be mined on those things. So we formalized those, 353 00:22:20,460 --> 00:22:24,240 and then the rest of the rest of fate of the Phase One tags. 354 00:22:25,350 --> 00:22:30,360 Those are going to close and be frozen on November the 15th. So 355 00:22:30,630 --> 00:22:35,250 30 days, well to 16. So November, so almost 30 days from 356 00:22:35,250 --> 00:22:39,990 now. So basically a month from now. All the anything left in 357 00:22:39,990 --> 00:22:44,850 the Phase One tags, it'll it'll just be frozen as is. Okay, 358 00:22:44,850 --> 00:22:48,990 point. Anything beyond that? If anything, any of the tags that 359 00:22:48,990 --> 00:22:52,530 we're not comfortable with in phase one, we'll just be booted 360 00:22:52,530 --> 00:22:53,340 to phase two. 361 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:57,900 Now what Yeah, what else? Do we have some consensus on? Podcast 362 00:22:57,900 --> 00:22:58,740 verification? 363 00:23:00,300 --> 00:23:02,100 That's built into the LOGTAG. Okay, 364 00:23:02,130 --> 00:23:05,730 all right. Part of it right? Of course, of course. Yeah. And 365 00:23:05,730 --> 00:23:10,290 so we have right now. I'm pulling it up actually printed 366 00:23:10,290 --> 00:23:13,710 this out the day before yesterday, and I was gonna start 367 00:23:13,710 --> 00:23:15,540 highlighting some stuff to talk about on the show. And then, 368 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:17,370 like, I looked at it this morning and watch through the 369 00:23:17,370 --> 00:23:23,520 trash can, I might change so much already. So, Trent, see, we 370 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:29,850 got chat chapters. I think we're we're kind of zeroing in on 371 00:23:29,850 --> 00:23:34,140 that. I think. I think we're looking okay on that. If I think 372 00:23:34,140 --> 00:23:37,560 we can fit that into phase one location. There doesn't seem to 373 00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,320 be a lot of argument about that anymore. So I 374 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,810 guess my Maidenhead locator didn't make the cut. 375 00:23:44,070 --> 00:23:47,520 I think it's because everybody thought that Maidenhead sounded 376 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:47,910 dirty. 377 00:23:50,100 --> 00:23:53,280 That sounds ham radio operators, maybe dirty bucks. We are. 378 00:23:53,310 --> 00:23:53,550 That's 379 00:23:55,860 --> 00:23:59,970 it okay. And then we've got some, we've got some good 380 00:23:59,970 --> 00:24:04,980 consensus around persons. So that'll be a way to define. 381 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:09,120 Yeah, that's been very interesting. I never considered 382 00:24:09,120 --> 00:24:11,880 that I know, Apple implemented some version of it. And I never 383 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:17,010 really, I mean, I'm a lazy guy. And all things considered, you 384 00:24:17,010 --> 00:24:19,920 know, I don't think any of this helps me at all. I mean, I don't 385 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:26,100 just don't think about it. I'm probably very wrong. And and 386 00:24:26,100 --> 00:24:31,260 I've also seen some decent conversation about guests, which 387 00:24:31,260 --> 00:24:33,900 I think has become something that people don't want to do. 388 00:24:34,140 --> 00:24:37,560 But the the host tags interesting and I and I will 389 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:41,460 admit that as not as a podcaster. But as a as a podcast 390 00:24:41,460 --> 00:24:45,180 user. I often will try and find something by somebody's name, 391 00:24:45,270 --> 00:24:45,930 for sure. 392 00:24:47,700 --> 00:24:51,420 I think having that defined I think is great, because then you 393 00:24:51,420 --> 00:24:55,710 can just drop it in and index it in a search and you don't have 394 00:24:55,710 --> 00:24:59,040 to start trying to do all this crazy stuff like my trying to 395 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,490 dig this stuff out of the Description field is like, it's 396 00:25:02,490 --> 00:25:05,400 just so much work. And if you can do that, if you can 397 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,520 structure if you make the data structured in a feed, you have 398 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:09,990 to worry about that now. 399 00:25:11,519 --> 00:25:18,119 Well, I'm no expert, by longshot, but a lot of the 400 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:25,199 tagging stuff, to me is mainly meant for search visibility. Is 401 00:25:25,199 --> 00:25:33,779 that a fair assessment? Yeah. So my question is, at what point do 402 00:25:33,779 --> 00:25:38,519 we have to be careful that we're not putting stuff in that is 403 00:25:38,519 --> 00:25:43,409 going to be easily abused? So that was the comment. I liked 404 00:25:43,409 --> 00:25:45,959 reading the I don't know where it was, I was reading a thread 405 00:25:45,959 --> 00:25:49,469 about guests. And I think it may have been Marco, so probably 406 00:25:49,469 --> 00:25:53,489 wasn't on podcast index, or social, from Marco from 407 00:25:53,489 --> 00:25:56,369 overcast. And he was saying, Well, what we have is, look at 408 00:25:56,369 --> 00:26:00,059 all these feeds where, you know, it's like, the like, this guy, 409 00:26:00,089 --> 00:26:03,689 you know, or sound just like him, or just people putting 410 00:26:03,689 --> 00:26:07,769 these names in, in order to surface in search rankings, you 411 00:26:07,769 --> 00:26:11,699 know, very much like putting one feed 15,000 episodes the same 412 00:26:12,089 --> 00:26:12,779 episode. 413 00:26:13,590 --> 00:26:18,600 Yeah. I think that the way you get around that is just with 414 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:23,910 sanity in the aggregator, you basically say, Well, nobody's 415 00:26:23,910 --> 00:26:29,160 gonna have 45 guests on an episode, right? I mean, you, you 416 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:33,720 just, you just, you index, the first, you aggregate the first 417 00:26:34,110 --> 00:26:38,220 four or five tags, or however many, you know, I think, I think 418 00:26:38,220 --> 00:26:41,040 a culture of the right way to handle these things will 419 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,440 develop, just look ahead, just like it has with everything 420 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,260 else, right? Because there's, you know, there's a lot, there's 421 00:26:46,260 --> 00:26:50,100 lots of ways to abuse that you can hand code in a whole bunch 422 00:26:50,100 --> 00:26:55,890 of key actions, key words, or write it into categories, you 423 00:26:55,890 --> 00:26:58,440 could put 50 of them in there or not. But I mean, we don't we 424 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,050 don't take any more than eight. Right. So you know, we just 425 00:27:01,050 --> 00:27:06,240 stop. But I think there's, there's abuse, abuse potential 426 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:11,310 for everything in this Sure. Everything in RSS. So I'm not 427 00:27:11,310 --> 00:27:14,370 too worried about that. Because I think the main, the main 428 00:27:14,370 --> 00:27:19,080 driving force around this as hosting is the hosters. And so 429 00:27:19,650 --> 00:27:22,530 they're, they're going to have some control over their own 430 00:27:22,530 --> 00:27:26,730 systems. Yeah, in order to stop that. But at the end, it's 431 00:27:26,730 --> 00:27:31,350 something like the way it arrays now as per you can define a 432 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,860 person and then give them a role host or guest. And then they can 433 00:27:34,860 --> 00:27:37,590 have an image associated with them, like a little, you know, 434 00:27:38,670 --> 00:27:44,010 snapshot or, or a link to a wiki pedia entry or something like 435 00:27:44,010 --> 00:27:46,770 that, you know, and that, that stuff can just be right there in 436 00:27:46,770 --> 00:27:52,320 the feed. Which is which is cool. And the same for contacts. 437 00:27:53,130 --> 00:27:57,480 You can have multiple points of contact within a feed you can 438 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:02,070 define a DMC like an abuse, okay, yeah, yeah, sure. Sure, 439 00:28:02,070 --> 00:28:05,370 sure. Or another contact for like, if you want to call it 440 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:07,830 here's, if you're an advertiser, you want to advertise on my 441 00:28:07,830 --> 00:28:09,780 show, you can contact me through this address. I 442 00:28:09,780 --> 00:28:13,050 saw that one. Yeah, that's all that interesting. So it is so 443 00:28:13,050 --> 00:28:17,610 much like DNS, isn't it? It really is. Yeah, it's like do 444 00:28:17,610 --> 00:28:19,320 DNS with record lookups. 445 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,040 These are different record types. It's like an MX or an A 446 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:24,330 or a CNAME. Or whatever. 447 00:28:24,360 --> 00:28:27,540 Right? Damn, everything's the same. You know, I 448 00:28:27,540 --> 00:28:31,020 want to I want to stop here for a second. And, and talk about 449 00:28:31,020 --> 00:28:35,220 JSON for a minute, because it's it's something that always comes 450 00:28:35,220 --> 00:28:36,870 up in this discussion. It's a hot topic. 451 00:28:37,290 --> 00:28:38,250 It's a hot topic. Yeah, 452 00:28:38,460 --> 00:28:41,910 it is. It's on everybody's on everybody's tongue these days. 453 00:28:41,910 --> 00:28:43,350 Yeah. Now what? 454 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:49,470 Just for the uninitiated, is JSON not just some other format 455 00:28:49,470 --> 00:28:52,440 or programming language? Or is it a floor wax and a dessert 456 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,050 topping? I don't know, JSON. I've seen what it looks like. 457 00:28:55,230 --> 00:28:58,470 Here's, here's the JSON. Okay, I see it, but what is it? 458 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,430 It's, it's basically a serialization format for 459 00:29:02,430 --> 00:29:06,510 JavaScript. No, that doesn't help anything at all. But when 460 00:29:06,510 --> 00:29:11,580 you when you want to take a JavaScript object, and, and make 461 00:29:11,580 --> 00:29:15,870 it for lack of a better term, portable, where you where it can 462 00:29:15,870 --> 00:29:21,090 be used outside of the script itself. You can convert it, 463 00:29:21,330 --> 00:29:25,950 basically you call it you serialize it into a text, 464 00:29:26,070 --> 00:29:30,120 textual representation of the objects. JSON 465 00:29:30,150 --> 00:29:33,480 and that and that's information or is also can you make it 466 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:35,790 executable? No, no, 467 00:29:35,790 --> 00:29:39,690 it's just data. Okay. So it's JSON is JavaScript Object 468 00:29:39,690 --> 00:29:43,860 Notation is what stands for that helps. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, 469 00:29:43,860 --> 00:29:51,450 that. You know, so what this really came started to get kind 470 00:29:51,450 --> 00:29:55,830 of popular when Brent Simmons and mountain race created the 471 00:29:55,830 --> 00:30:00,780 JSON feeds back to Earth Three years ago, 472 00:30:00,870 --> 00:30:03,810 Brent did that. Okay? Yeah, we know Brent. 473 00:30:04,740 --> 00:30:10,320 Brent Simmons is clearly a legend in the Mac world. Manton, 474 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,710 Reese is a very good programmer. I respect him a lot. He's 475 00:30:13,710 --> 00:30:18,000 microdot blog platform. And those guys are clear. They're 476 00:30:18,570 --> 00:30:21,840 the smartest whip. I mean, and they did. And the JSON feed spec 477 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,680 is wonderful. I got no problems with anything they've done. And 478 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:30,240 I don't think there's anything really wrong with it at all. The 479 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:34,800 problem with JSON and the reason that I just can't spend any of 480 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:38,370 my energy on it, is because Well, number one, I've been down 481 00:30:38,370 --> 00:30:43,590 this road before with JSON feed I was I implemented JSON feed in 482 00:30:43,590 --> 00:30:48,150 the freedom controller, like within a day of it coming out in 483 00:30:48,180 --> 00:30:54,330 the code, there's a, there's a just a up in my GitHub repo list 484 00:30:55,050 --> 00:31:00,240 for that will take an RSS excuse me take a JSON feed and convert 485 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:05,340 it back to RSS. Okay. And the reason I did that was because 486 00:31:05,340 --> 00:31:10,050 everything internal to the freedom controllers, RSS, it all 487 00:31:10,050 --> 00:31:14,130 expects to be XML, you pass this simple XML objects around all 488 00:31:14,130 --> 00:31:19,020 over the place. And I'm like, Well, I want to consume JSON 489 00:31:19,020 --> 00:31:23,340 feed, in case it becomes a big thing. But I mean, it's 490 00:31:23,430 --> 00:31:26,130 internally, I don't want to react to I can't recode 491 00:31:26,220 --> 00:31:29,940 everything in here. So I created that thing. And so basically, 492 00:31:29,940 --> 00:31:33,030 when when you consume a JSON feed, if you subscribe to it 493 00:31:33,030 --> 00:31:36,660 with a fried mozzarella, which you can get it just it just 494 00:31:36,660 --> 00:31:40,500 morphs it into RSS on the way in. So internally, it's just 495 00:31:40,500 --> 00:31:45,060 XML, right? And it just felt like such a waste. I'm like, you 496 00:31:45,060 --> 00:31:49,620 know, I'm basically taking this this format. I'm just converting 497 00:31:49,620 --> 00:31:50,100 it right back to 498 00:31:50,100 --> 00:31:53,550 XML. Yeah. The you're not getting any benefits? Not 499 00:31:53,580 --> 00:31:59,400 Not really. And the the, the the other? Well, there's a few, 500 00:31:59,490 --> 00:32:04,800 there's a few problems with JSON adoption. Number one, and this 501 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:09,900 goes back to the rules for standard records, is we'll see 502 00:32:09,900 --> 00:32:14,580 it's one one way is better than two. Yes, one of the is one of 503 00:32:14,580 --> 00:32:18,660 the rules. And that the reason one way is better than two is 504 00:32:18,660 --> 00:32:26,760 because there's always going to be this long tail of adoption. 505 00:32:28,170 --> 00:32:35,910 Where were people that are producing feeds have to produce 506 00:32:35,910 --> 00:32:41,310 both XML and JSON both? Because they don't, because you have to 507 00:32:41,310 --> 00:32:47,970 be sure that you're producing what your consumers can take. So 508 00:32:47,970 --> 00:32:52,380 you have to produce both. And you never know how long you have 509 00:32:52,380 --> 00:32:58,230 to produce both. So you, what happens is you end up having to 510 00:32:58,230 --> 00:33:03,060 produce both forever. Yeah. And nobody wants to do that no 511 00:33:03,060 --> 00:33:05,160 one really wins. No one really wins. 512 00:33:05,550 --> 00:33:11,370 Yes. And that's, that's sort of the main issue. I don't know if 513 00:33:11,370 --> 00:33:18,330 you've heard of, I use this. This analogy on on the mastodon 514 00:33:18,330 --> 00:33:19,920 the other day, I don't know if you've ever heard of Gresham's 515 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:25,140 Law, which is bad money drives out good is this concept of, 516 00:33:26,070 --> 00:33:28,080 let's just say you have gold versus some kind of fiat 517 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,410 currency, nobody's ever gonna go spend their gold at the grocery 518 00:33:31,410 --> 00:33:35,430 store. You know, everybody's gonna spend the crap money, but 519 00:33:35,430 --> 00:33:37,380 they're gonna keep the good money, the goal for themselves, 520 00:33:37,380 --> 00:33:42,090 and they're gonna be Knology. Yeah, so it's the same type of 521 00:33:42,090 --> 00:33:46,320 deal. It's like, the bad stuff, it may be XML in this scenario 522 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:50,790 is the bad guy. But it's the one that everybody is already using. 523 00:33:50,790 --> 00:33:54,360 And so everybody's just gonna keep using that one thing, 524 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,570 because to switch means that you're going to have to do this 525 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:02,370 other complicated thing and put yourself at a potential risk by 526 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:08,220 by one day, cutting off maybe a certain percentage of your user 527 00:34:08,220 --> 00:34:13,740 base when you drop XML, you just can't do it. And the other thing 528 00:34:13,740 --> 00:34:18,510 is, the other thing about JSON that I think, bothers me so much 529 00:34:18,510 --> 00:34:30,030 is developers. Developers are bad about wanting the one best 530 00:34:30,030 --> 00:34:35,460 thing they want. They want perfection. And I get it. You 531 00:34:35,460 --> 00:34:41,280 know, nobody wants to have a Roku and Amazon Fire Stick and 532 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,430 an Apple TV in their house to watch, you know, all their 533 00:34:44,430 --> 00:34:48,990 shows. Yeah, I maybe that's a bad analogy. But not everybody 534 00:34:48,990 --> 00:34:51,840 has this vision, especially developers are bad about this, 535 00:34:52,050 --> 00:34:55,740 to have this, this fantasy vision of the perfect spec, 536 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:59,310 where it solves everybody's problem in just because there's 537 00:34:59,310 --> 00:35:06,090 one and that everything is fixed. But that's not the way 538 00:35:06,090 --> 00:35:12,360 anything really works. Right? We have, we have HTML on the web. 539 00:35:12,870 --> 00:35:16,320 HTML is basically XML is a markup language is Markup 540 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:21,480 Language. Yeah. And nobody is talking about replacing HTML 541 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:29,010 with JSON. We have yaml, which is a yet another Markup 542 00:35:29,010 --> 00:35:33,120 Language. Exactly, which is a very good markup language for 543 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:37,980 configuration files is used with things like Docker. I think 544 00:35:37,980 --> 00:35:43,410 Kubernetes uses it a lot. The open API specification uses it. 545 00:35:43,500 --> 00:35:47,100 Lots of things use Yamo. Because it's easy to write. And it's 546 00:35:47,100 --> 00:35:55,110 visually very clear. markup languages have a benefit of 547 00:35:55,110 --> 00:36:01,470 handwriting in ease of reading. JSON is easy to read, when you 548 00:36:01,470 --> 00:36:05,670 have a flat list of just maybe an array or something, the more 549 00:36:05,670 --> 00:36:10,740 complicated JSON gets, it becomes very difficult to write 550 00:36:10,740 --> 00:36:16,620 by hand. And, like if you've seen a large JSON document, 551 00:36:16,650 --> 00:36:20,100 yeah, you you really, it can fry your brain. 552 00:36:20,130 --> 00:36:25,410 Well, that's what I've always liked about RSS. I could look at 553 00:36:25,410 --> 00:36:29,820 it and go, okay. I can probably copy and paste this into Notepad 554 00:36:29,820 --> 00:36:32,910 and put a different URL here and a different name here. And it's 555 00:36:32,910 --> 00:36:33,840 like, Oh, I get it. 556 00:36:33,990 --> 00:36:36,570 Yeah. Well, you did that yesterday. And you're having 557 00:36:36,570 --> 00:36:37,410 some trouble with Oh, 558 00:36:37,410 --> 00:36:40,470 my God. Thanks for Thanks for being my eyes and ears, man. I 559 00:36:40,470 --> 00:36:42,990 was Yeah, I was I didn't know what was going on there for a 560 00:36:42,990 --> 00:36:43,830 moment. But yeah, 561 00:36:43,890 --> 00:36:50,280 well, you can put a stray, you can put a s a spurious curly 562 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,580 bracket into JSON. And you can fork the whole race, everything. 563 00:36:53,580 --> 00:36:58,410 Yeah. Everything in that. And it's just as fragile as XML is 564 00:36:58,410 --> 00:37:02,490 in that regard. So I think we need to get away from this idea 565 00:37:02,490 --> 00:37:06,810 that there's this one perfect spec that needs to be applied to 566 00:37:06,810 --> 00:37:12,660 everything. The world we live in, applies different solutions 567 00:37:12,660 --> 00:37:16,380 to different problems. And what we have in the feed world is we 568 00:37:16,380 --> 00:37:23,460 have RSS, it dominates. It is the master spec for everything 569 00:37:23,610 --> 00:37:29,850 involving news feeds. Right. And that's okay. Yep. You and you 570 00:37:29,850 --> 00:37:34,890 can, I think we need to be very careful in the independent 571 00:37:34,890 --> 00:37:41,040 podcasting world about trying to sever podcasting from the rest 572 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:41,850 of blogging, 573 00:37:42,690 --> 00:37:44,250 or blogging lately agree. 574 00:37:46,290 --> 00:37:49,410 So there's we index 1.3 something million fates 575 00:37:49,410 --> 00:37:53,610 currently, you can multiply that times 50. And that's how many 576 00:37:53,610 --> 00:37:59,820 blogs there are. I mean, easily. Yeah. So you, it is it behooves 577 00:37:59,850 --> 00:38:06,720 everybody to maintain podcasting, as a subset of blog, 578 00:38:06,870 --> 00:38:10,800 have the same thing that blogging uses to do feeds, the 579 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:15,090 enclosure tag is there for a reason? And it and it solves 580 00:38:15,090 --> 00:38:20,610 that pretty well. All we have to do is add? Did we add the 581 00:38:20,610 --> 00:38:23,640 namespace on top of it to give podcasters the extra stuff that 582 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:25,380 they need that blogs may not need? 583 00:38:27,180 --> 00:38:30,210 And the infrastructure is just there, the infrastructure stays 584 00:38:30,210 --> 00:38:33,600 and it's perfect for me 585 00:38:33,630 --> 00:38:36,690 yet? Yeah, I think I think it is, I just think that there's a 586 00:38:36,690 --> 00:38:44,460 way I just think it's a lot of wasted effort to try to, to, to 587 00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:50,250 up end everything and apply a completely new spec to something 588 00:38:50,340 --> 00:38:54,990 that can be solved much more quickly. And I can tell you this 589 00:38:54,990 --> 00:39:00,300 from from a like from a parsing standpoint that our aggregator 590 00:39:01,650 --> 00:39:09,420 uses uses JavaScript. So parsing JSON would be fine. But other 591 00:39:09,420 --> 00:39:13,080 aggregators don't. If I'm if my aggregators written and written 592 00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:17,310 in, in JavaScript, maybe it handles JSON pretty well. But 593 00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:23,610 handling JSON in something like PHP, or Swift or Swift. Now, 594 00:39:23,610 --> 00:39:27,300 Swift, the first, recent recent versions of the Swift language 595 00:39:27,300 --> 00:39:30,270 can handle JSON a little bit better. But the first two or 596 00:39:30,270 --> 00:39:35,670 three versions of, of Swift, my God, JSON was just a nightmare. 597 00:39:35,910 --> 00:39:39,780 It was it was absolutely not a better product than XML. Now is. 598 00:39:40,110 --> 00:39:42,150 So I think we need to be careful about that. 599 00:39:42,839 --> 00:39:47,909 Is this still a big debate about JSON versus RSS or are you just 600 00:39:47,909 --> 00:39:50,369 clarifying as we move into the namespace? 601 00:39:52,290 --> 00:39:58,410 I kind of wanted to clarify my feelings on it. Just so that is 602 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:03,000 basically to say that I don't have any energy for that debate. 603 00:40:03,330 --> 00:40:10,110 Got it? I just don't. And this, I want to focus all my energy on 604 00:40:10,110 --> 00:40:15,480 what I see as low hanging fruit, which is an XML namespace. And 605 00:40:16,410 --> 00:40:21,690 if if somebody else wants to take on the mantle of trying to 606 00:40:21,900 --> 00:40:25,200 get the entire industry to switch at the same time to a 607 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:29,130 different format, font, I don't think it'll ever happen. But 608 00:40:29,820 --> 00:40:32,250 that's something that somebody else can do. I'm not doing that. 609 00:40:32,340 --> 00:40:35,220 Yeah. And I just don't think it's necessary. I really do not 610 00:40:35,220 --> 00:40:36,030 think is necessary. 611 00:40:36,240 --> 00:40:37,440 Flag planted. 612 00:40:38,430 --> 00:40:47,460 Yeah. In the, you know, I want to say to that JSON. JSON is 613 00:40:47,460 --> 00:40:51,900 just not I don't I just don't think it's ever gonna gonna 614 00:40:51,900 --> 00:40:55,980 happen. And, and more importantly, I don't think it 615 00:40:55,980 --> 00:41:00,420 needs to. It's, it comes back to that idea that's talked about 616 00:41:00,420 --> 00:41:06,150 just a second ago. It really comes down to it's okay. To have 617 00:41:06,150 --> 00:41:12,810 more than one spec. Like more than one language. Sure. And I 618 00:41:12,810 --> 00:41:15,540 just think we need to be comfortable with that. I am not. 619 00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:24,300 When do we talk about the chicks. JSON man, that's like, 620 00:41:24,300 --> 00:41:28,470 Okay, I got you. No, seriously. No, I understand. I understand 621 00:41:28,470 --> 00:41:31,410 your reasons for saying this. And I appreciate it. I 622 00:41:31,410 --> 00:41:34,500 completely agree. And I adhere to weiners Bible there. I think 623 00:41:34,500 --> 00:41:35,310 he's absolutely right. 624 00:41:36,810 --> 00:41:42,000 We're, I think we're basically the Are we the book TV? Podcast? 625 00:41:43,710 --> 00:41:47,460 Yes, it was, it was interesting conversation we had about JSON 626 00:41:47,460 --> 00:41:51,630 versus RSS. Here's your, your URLs 627 00:41:51,720 --> 00:41:53,370 should be inside of node value. 628 00:41:56,190 --> 00:41:59,310 Yeah, yes. Let's close that tag, and move on. 629 00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,690 Do you want to move on to two funny things that chicks say 630 00:42:03,690 --> 00:42:05,160 when they Yeah, when 631 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:07,650 they go to Spotify? did? Did they? Do we know anything about 632 00:42:07,650 --> 00:42:10,050 a monster contract? Did they cash in? 633 00:42:10,590 --> 00:42:15,150 Okay. We're gonna do that first Monday donations? 634 00:42:15,180 --> 00:42:19,110 Oh, hell yes, of course, we have a nice list to talk about today. 635 00:42:19,740 --> 00:42:23,700 Alright, let's do it. And let me explain the entire concept of 636 00:42:23,700 --> 00:42:27,930 value for value, which is how we're starting this project off, 637 00:42:27,930 --> 00:42:31,620 it's obviously we put our own money into, just get it off the 638 00:42:31,620 --> 00:42:35,250 ground. But the idea is, we need your time, your talent, your 639 00:42:35,250 --> 00:42:39,630 treasure, any combination of those to support the entire 640 00:42:41,430 --> 00:42:44,820 preservation here for podcasting is a platform of free speech, we 641 00:42:44,820 --> 00:42:48,690 intend to, hopefully come up with a way that everybody is in 642 00:42:48,690 --> 00:42:52,830 some kind of value flow, so the index can run by itself. But 643 00:42:52,830 --> 00:42:55,650 you're getting out of it, what you put into it. And, and again, 644 00:42:55,650 --> 00:43:01,680 that's the developers. That's the idea people. It's, it's our 645 00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,640 James Cridland, you know, everybody who was a part of this 646 00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,310 is is contributing in one way or the other, and they're getting 647 00:43:08,310 --> 00:43:11,130 out of it, what is what is worthwhile to them, for their 648 00:43:11,130 --> 00:43:14,220 own projects, for their own sanity for their own thought 649 00:43:14,220 --> 00:43:19,050 process. And we love it when we can also support the machinery 650 00:43:19,050 --> 00:43:22,320 financially. And that's why we ask for value for value. There's 651 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:25,020 no limit you can whatever is valuable to you, whatever value 652 00:43:25,020 --> 00:43:27,900 you're getting out of the index, whatever value you're getting 653 00:43:27,900 --> 00:43:31,080 out of this show, which is part of the whole podcasting 2.0 654 00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:36,120 system. Just give it back any way you can. And we've set up a 655 00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:40,110 PayPal, that's it podcast index.org. And we've had some 656 00:43:40,140 --> 00:43:45,060 people jump in and help us out. I think even with some couple of 657 00:43:45,090 --> 00:43:48,270 recurring donations, which really keeps the server's 658 00:43:48,270 --> 00:43:48,720 running. 659 00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,560 Totally, there's a big red, there's, you finally get your 660 00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:53,850 big red donation. But I 661 00:43:53,850 --> 00:43:56,730 know the big red donation. Thank you very much, Trent, by the 662 00:43:56,730 --> 00:44:01,260 way, I should say drunk playdough. Who, who did a 663 00:44:01,260 --> 00:44:06,090 phenomenal job. I love how it looks. Our new our new homepage 664 00:44:06,090 --> 00:44:09,240 or landing page. And I really appreciate that it did that for 665 00:44:09,240 --> 00:44:10,140 us. It looks great. 666 00:44:10,650 --> 00:44:15,540 Yeah, it's killer. It looks it looks fantastic. But as well, 667 00:44:15,900 --> 00:44:17,550 we'll talk about that later. I was gonna say talk about the 668 00:44:17,550 --> 00:44:22,950 Search searches better. But I'll talk about that later. In the 669 00:44:22,950 --> 00:44:28,860 connected so I won't forget that. Yeah. So donations. Last, 670 00:44:29,340 --> 00:44:32,160 on the last show. We got a donation, like during the show 671 00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:33,510 for $500. Yeah, 672 00:44:33,540 --> 00:44:34,500 that was from Benjamin. 673 00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:39,660 Yeah. And he said that he would like to make that donation and I 674 00:44:39,660 --> 00:44:42,210 had a cup of some correspondence with him. He said he would like 675 00:44:42,210 --> 00:44:45,720 to have that donation in honor of Aaron Schwartz, which is a 676 00:44:45,720 --> 00:44:46,080 hero of 677 00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:49,140 his Oh, wow. Okay, nice. So, absolutely. 678 00:44:49,590 --> 00:44:51,960 Yeah. And I thought that was a great idea. 679 00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,890 We should be honored to have that kind of association. 680 00:44:56,310 --> 00:44:59,340 Clearly he associates Aaron Swartz and his work with what's 681 00:44:59,340 --> 00:45:02,070 going on here. So I take that as a huge compliment. 682 00:45:02,730 --> 00:45:05,550 You know, I was thinking about Aaron Schwartz when he, he wrote 683 00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:12,240 a vision read a really just a really, it honestly was kind of 684 00:45:12,240 --> 00:45:17,880 a moving email about his story. And I was thinking about Aaron 685 00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:19,890 Schwartz. You know, that's been a long time now. 686 00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:21,120 It was a long time ago. 687 00:45:21,780 --> 00:45:28,530 Has that been like, maybe 12 years ago or longer? Well, it's 688 00:45:28,530 --> 00:45:29,370 been a while. 689 00:45:29,460 --> 00:45:32,400 Let me see. Seven years ago. 690 00:45:33,180 --> 00:45:35,970 Okay. Okay. It's just seemed magazines 691 00:45:35,970 --> 00:45:38,280 longer, doesn't it? Yeah. No, it does seem longer. 692 00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:42,690 It's kind of, I don't know, just kind of hit me how long it's 693 00:45:42,690 --> 00:45:46,110 been and how strange of a whole thing. That 694 00:45:46,110 --> 00:45:48,420 whole situation was very strange. Yes. 695 00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:53,610 Yeah. The last thing is, like, based on what we're doing now, 696 00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:59,460 that seems like a very appropriate. Tom at Buzzsprout. 697 00:46:00,540 --> 00:46:05,400 Gave us $1,000. What? Last night? What? Oh, my. 698 00:46:07,860 --> 00:46:15,030 Holy crap. So Tom from Buzzsprout, who's been part of 699 00:46:15,030 --> 00:46:17,880 the part of the group for what two weeks now? 700 00:46:20,340 --> 00:46:21,840 Not even that long week. 701 00:46:22,320 --> 00:46:26,760 He comes in implements part of the spec helps us out with with 702 00:46:27,270 --> 00:46:29,640 stuff they're doing already and supports. 703 00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:36,330 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. To get any said. I'm excited. Buzzsprout 704 00:46:36,330 --> 00:46:40,230 can play a part in driving podcasting forward. We're all in 705 00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:40,740 is what he's 706 00:46:41,340 --> 00:46:44,040 beautiful. Oh, man. Thank you so much. 707 00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:47,700 Yeah. Thanks, Tom. That is, that's killing it, man. 708 00:46:47,700 --> 00:46:52,320 Yeah, that's, that's gonna keep us going. Nice. Thank you so 709 00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:52,650 much. 710 00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:55,920 It's so nice to have that because then you, you just don't 711 00:46:55,980 --> 00:46:59,130 You don't have to worry about staying up at night. Thinking 712 00:46:59,130 --> 00:47:00,570 about the bill, 713 00:47:01,020 --> 00:47:04,650 then everybody has to understand my good friend Dave, who has 714 00:47:04,650 --> 00:47:10,110 been thinking about my bills for a decade. without me asking, 715 00:47:10,110 --> 00:47:12,240 it's like, this is too much. What are you paying? There's too 716 00:47:12,240 --> 00:47:14,730 much. Let me see if I can switch this around and proxy this and 717 00:47:14,730 --> 00:47:17,280 I'll do that. And I'll put that upside down. I'll flip flop 718 00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:20,490 that. What's your bill? What's your bill? Like? Yeah, I know, 719 00:47:20,490 --> 00:47:22,620 you care. And it's really appreciated. 720 00:47:23,130 --> 00:47:25,620 Now we get that lick, man. Yeah, we 721 00:47:25,620 --> 00:47:28,710 do. We're frugal baby. We know how to do that. We know how to 722 00:47:28,710 --> 00:47:30,540 run lean and mean. Yeah. 723 00:47:31,830 --> 00:47:36,750 Let's see. Who got we got. So that's Eric Schwartz, 724 00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:44,010 honorarium. And Tom from Buzzsprout. There's see this one 725 00:47:44,010 --> 00:47:51,720 is credited. $50 from Sir bill of Glen rock. Nice. And he says, 726 00:47:51,750 --> 00:47:53,580 Go podcasting Mic drop. 727 00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:59,190 Well, I can give him a Mic drop. I think I got a mic drop for 728 00:47:59,190 --> 00:48:03,150 him. You got to you got to do. You got to do the whole go 729 00:48:03,150 --> 00:48:07,320 podcast and go I have a thing for that go podcasting. We got 730 00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:10,230 people coming over from no agenda and other places go 731 00:48:10,230 --> 00:48:17,430 podcast with a mic drop. Yeah. 732 00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:25,680 I remember that. Thank Thank you, sir. Mr. Glenn. No, sir 733 00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:30,060 bill. Glen rock. That's right. Yeah. David Norman from hyper 734 00:48:30,060 --> 00:48:35,160 capture. He gave us a 20 $25 a month subscription. Wow. 735 00:48:35,940 --> 00:48:40,620 Fantastic. Now, yeah, he's hyper capture. Is that on? Is that a 736 00:48:40,650 --> 00:48:43,260 native app? Or is that a web app? What is hyper capture 737 00:48:43,709 --> 00:48:46,889 is a native app on iOS. And it's a really pretty app. And you and 738 00:48:46,889 --> 00:48:54,299 he he's the one that led like a studio thing where you can? It's 739 00:48:54,299 --> 00:48:54,689 like, uh, 740 00:48:55,080 --> 00:49:00,330 oh, yeah. Yeah, I tried to sign up for something because he was 741 00:49:00,330 --> 00:49:02,940 promoting it. Yeah, it's like for clipping and stuff. I'm 742 00:49:02,940 --> 00:49:06,720 gonna second because I want to I want to I want to eat my dog 743 00:49:06,720 --> 00:49:07,920 food man here. Hyper 744 00:49:08,790 --> 00:49:14,640 hypercube was the first he was the very first developer to put 745 00:49:15,540 --> 00:49:17,730 to use to start using us for search. 746 00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:23,760 Okay, here we go. Yeah, I Propecia, good downloading as we 747 00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:24,300 speak. 748 00:49:24,509 --> 00:49:29,099 He implemented our API. Oh my gosh, it was maybe like, the 749 00:49:29,099 --> 00:49:34,679 first week. It was very, very early. So he put he gave us a 750 00:49:34,679 --> 00:49:39,929 $25 month subscription and so much. Yeah, that keeps you need 751 00:49:39,929 --> 00:49:43,919 a server. See what I got here? 752 00:49:44,100 --> 00:49:47,910 Oh, okay. Yeah, I thought he was web only and I'd signed up for 753 00:49:47,910 --> 00:49:50,700 something and I didn't get a confirmation email and then I 754 00:49:50,700 --> 00:49:54,930 got eight phone calls. And okay, great. 755 00:49:56,130 --> 00:50:01,380 Yeah, now he his app is on iOS and it's very pretty He is a 756 00:50:01,380 --> 00:50:06,060 very beautiful app. And he just implemented this. I looked at it 757 00:50:06,060 --> 00:50:08,520 last night. This is like a newsletter feature where you can 758 00:50:08,820 --> 00:50:13,050 see newsletters and stuff in the app. It's pretty. He's a good 759 00:50:13,050 --> 00:50:18,000 programmer doing some really neat stuff. Thanks, David. 760 00:50:18,210 --> 00:50:23,220 Yeah, I'm looking at now. It's really, it really is pretty. You 761 00:50:23,220 --> 00:50:26,430 can have Yeah, just got it. Absolutely. Yeah. 762 00:50:26,730 --> 00:50:29,700 Yeah. It's just nice looking. It's just, it's a good feeling 763 00:50:29,700 --> 00:50:34,320 app. And I hope they're, again about the search. I think the 764 00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:38,820 search today is much better than it was yesterday. What did 765 00:50:38,820 --> 00:50:42,210 you tamp down some something happened, you did something and 766 00:50:42,210 --> 00:50:43,200 stuff changed 767 00:50:43,859 --> 00:50:52,679 yet. So what I did was took the all of basically, there's a 768 00:50:52,679 --> 00:50:55,889 script now that's running and is looking at the logs. It's 769 00:50:55,889 --> 00:51:00,479 looking at the last 24 hours of logs all the time. It's it's 770 00:51:00,809 --> 00:51:05,519 looking to see from all the API calls coming from all the 771 00:51:05,519 --> 00:51:11,729 different various people. It's looking to see which pod it's 772 00:51:11,729 --> 00:51:19,079 looking at the ones that are episode, excuse me, feed my ID, 773 00:51:19,559 --> 00:51:23,729 or feed by iTunes ID is looking at those two API endpoints. And 774 00:51:23,729 --> 00:51:27,839 whenever something hits that, it, it bumps the popularity 775 00:51:27,839 --> 00:51:28,409 score up. 776 00:51:28,500 --> 00:51:33,270 Ah, right. So because you can track the search and the click. 777 00:51:33,930 --> 00:51:38,160 Yeah, exactly. Because you can tie together, somebody searched 778 00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:41,220 for this, and then they and then they the next call that comes in 779 00:51:41,220 --> 00:51:45,150 associated with it was they found what they looked for, and 780 00:51:45,150 --> 00:51:48,660 they tapped it got or clicked on or whatever. So you just make 781 00:51:48,660 --> 00:51:51,300 the association. And so we're just doing a popularity score 782 00:51:51,300 --> 00:51:54,450 ranking on that as an integer sticking that in the database, 783 00:51:54,450 --> 00:51:56,820 and then we're just waiting the results based on that in 784 00:51:56,820 --> 00:52:01,020 descending order. Right. And it I mean, instantly, it made the 785 00:52:01,020 --> 00:52:02,130 search 1000. I 786 00:52:02,130 --> 00:52:06,360 saw Yeah, no, I saw it. It was the dust podcast was the search 787 00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:07,740 term that was not working. Right. 788 00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:11,520 Well, was that and also, the daily from the New York Times 789 00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:13,950 was never got better enough. Obviously, if you search for the 790 00:52:13,950 --> 00:52:17,790 words, the daily Yeah, you got to have a ranking. I mean, you 791 00:52:17,790 --> 00:52:21,090 gotta have some sort of sort of way to to wait that. And so 792 00:52:21,210 --> 00:52:23,400 like, all that stuff is now fixed. I mean, all the stuff you 793 00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:25,950 would expect to be in the right order. 794 00:52:26,010 --> 00:52:33,720 I see it there. I see it now. So. So this is basically a whole 795 00:52:33,720 --> 00:52:35,340 wrapper around the API. 796 00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:40,500 Yeah, and it doesn't depend. What I like about it is it 797 00:52:40,500 --> 00:52:44,400 doesn't depend on and this is what took so long to get this is 798 00:52:44,430 --> 00:52:50,160 I have no interest in scraping Apple or some other service to 799 00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:54,540 get this ranking information. I'm just not doing it. I'm gonna 800 00:52:54,540 --> 00:52:58,470 have, we have to find other ways to live outside of that of that 801 00:52:58,470 --> 00:53:04,320 silo. And so this, this is how we do it as more people adopt 802 00:53:04,650 --> 00:53:09,510 the API for their apps. We just use our own internal stats to 803 00:53:09,720 --> 00:53:14,880 figure out what they're looking for. And then then look and get 804 00:53:14,880 --> 00:53:18,090 it. Right. So that is working. So 805 00:53:18,240 --> 00:53:22,170 beautiful. Well, hyper cat, you're now on on deck. We'll 806 00:53:22,170 --> 00:53:25,650 start filling it up. I can't this is nice, fast. Two very 807 00:53:25,650 --> 00:53:28,050 fast. Yeah. It is found like fast apps. 808 00:53:28,620 --> 00:53:36,090 Again. Yeah. So David, you're gonna get you're gonna get the 809 00:53:38,430 --> 00:53:43,770 you're gonna get the second API server, you're gonna get API API 810 00:53:43,770 --> 00:53:44,220 to 811 00:53:44,279 --> 00:53:46,199 with a custom tunnel to your app. 812 00:53:46,770 --> 00:53:48,060 Customers. Yeah. 813 00:53:50,340 --> 00:53:52,530 Thank you, David. Very nice. Really appreciate it. 814 00:53:53,070 --> 00:54:01,170 You had se hope I'm saying this right is so Soren you probably 815 00:54:01,170 --> 00:54:05,310 can pronounce this better than I can. It's it's the the Oh, with 816 00:54:05,310 --> 00:54:06,330 the strike. Yes, 817 00:54:06,330 --> 00:54:08,190 sir. And yeah, that sounds right. Yep. Okay. 818 00:54:09,510 --> 00:54:14,070 He did a automatic subscription monthly subscription for $10 a 819 00:54:14,070 --> 00:54:18,870 month. And that exactly. I'll give you aggregator one and that 820 00:54:18,900 --> 00:54:23,070 you are now paying every month for to support one of the 821 00:54:23,070 --> 00:54:27,240 aggregators. Thank you. Sorry. Yeah, that really helps. It's 822 00:54:27,240 --> 00:54:29,490 just another server bill. We don't have 823 00:54:29,490 --> 00:54:32,310 to worry about that paper. Crumple is a nice touch in this 824 00:54:32,310 --> 00:54:36,960 digital world enjoying it. Do what I can't or analog, man, I 825 00:54:36,960 --> 00:54:37,350 love it. 826 00:54:38,940 --> 00:54:49,290 See, no one. There's two. Okay, two other ones. Day see Derek 827 00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:56,340 Vista. He did a $21 a month subscription, okay. And he is 828 00:54:56,340 --> 00:55:00,330 going to get aggregator for it. Should 829 00:55:01,410 --> 00:55:03,510 you are an actual server now? 830 00:55:04,140 --> 00:55:09,300 Yep. Your Thank you Derek. I couldn't find a note from Derek. 831 00:55:09,300 --> 00:55:11,580 I hope I didn't miss it. If I did do it, please. 832 00:55:12,269 --> 00:55:15,509 What's? What's Derek's? Last name? Can we mentioned 833 00:55:16,110 --> 00:55:19,530 Vickery via SK er. Okay. 834 00:55:19,860 --> 00:55:32,490 See, I just somehow recall the ER ek or ck, d r e. K? This? No, 835 00:55:32,550 --> 00:55:35,730 I don't have anything. Thought I'd saw onset seeing something. 836 00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:39,510 Yeah, I had a couple of disrespectful emails on NC a 837 00:55:39,510 --> 00:55:43,260 note. But thank you, Derek. Yeah, very much. So. Yeah, 838 00:55:43,260 --> 00:55:50,640 subscription. And then Kenneth Brown. And his is a single 839 00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:57,600 donation for $3.33 will take and is note his note was mac and 840 00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:02,910 cheese treasurer. Thank you for your courage. Thank you, for 841 00:56:02,910 --> 00:56:04,140 your courage. Yes, thank 842 00:56:04,140 --> 00:56:05,820 you, indeed. Thank you for your courage. 843 00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:13,020 That's it. That's, that's well, that's her Don't donation guys. 844 00:56:13,020 --> 00:56:13,290 Yeah, 845 00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:18,150 and a great list that is, and thank you all so much for 846 00:56:18,570 --> 00:56:21,360 grasping the concept, understanding it value for 847 00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:24,450 value. And in this case, the treasure, but also a lot of you 848 00:56:24,450 --> 00:56:27,030 with your time and your talent. It's great. Really, really 849 00:56:27,030 --> 00:56:30,900 appreciate it. Again, it's podcast index.org. And there's a 850 00:56:31,050 --> 00:56:33,060 big red donation button at the bottom. 851 00:56:33,660 --> 00:56:40,530 Get cameras. I've been wanting you to do this. Can you? Just 852 00:56:40,530 --> 00:56:44,370 tell? Can you explain why I don't think I think one thing 853 00:56:44,370 --> 00:56:46,950 that that gets lost when people when you talk about value for 854 00:56:46,950 --> 00:56:52,770 value, is that people immediately make the false 855 00:56:52,770 --> 00:56:58,650 association between that. And like a Patreon subscription type 856 00:56:58,650 --> 00:57:03,990 thing. And there's a reason why you don't ask people to do that 857 00:57:03,990 --> 00:57:08,190 y'all never say $5 a month or something like that. You always 858 00:57:08,190 --> 00:57:11,220 leave it completely open. Yes. Can you explain that? 859 00:57:14,550 --> 00:57:19,740 So the value value is kind of the is almost like risk, you 860 00:57:19,740 --> 00:57:23,100 know, everyone assesses their own risk. You know, for one, 861 00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:28,380 parachute jumping is low risk, I won't do it. But yeah, it'll fly 862 00:57:28,380 --> 00:57:32,220 helicopters. Value is kind of the same way. I can't look at 863 00:57:33,150 --> 00:57:36,360 someone and say, Well, you know, whatever you're getting out of 864 00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:43,650 podcasts. index.org is worth $5 to you. Because that may be $5 865 00:57:43,650 --> 00:57:45,990 may be much better spent for that person on something that 866 00:57:45,990 --> 00:57:51,480 they value much higher. So all I'm saying is, take a look. What 867 00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:54,630 kind of value are you getting from this. And that's going to 868 00:57:54,630 --> 00:57:57,870 be so vastly different for a developer to a hosting person to 869 00:57:57,870 --> 00:58:00,540 someone who just likes listen to podcast to someone who just 870 00:58:00,540 --> 00:58:03,750 likes to help people out. And there's people like that, too. 871 00:58:03,990 --> 00:58:06,990 I'm sure some of them are supporting us as well. If you 872 00:58:06,990 --> 00:58:11,730 just ask people to put the value on it that they want. You're 873 00:58:11,730 --> 00:58:15,720 always pleasantly surprised. And I remember this was the no 874 00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:20,010 agenda show. And the way we would talk about it then is 875 00:58:20,010 --> 00:58:24,030 okay, we talked for two hours, you could go to the movies, and 876 00:58:24,030 --> 00:58:26,670 you could sit in a dark room with a friend and take a date, 877 00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:30,180 have a drinks and popcorn could be 50 bucks. Now, you just spent 878 00:58:30,180 --> 00:58:33,810 two hours with us. Was that worth 50? It turns out, many 879 00:58:33,810 --> 00:58:38,700 will say no, you're about a $5 for two hour kind of experience. 880 00:58:39,390 --> 00:58:41,670 But that's true. That's okay. That's what you know. And that 881 00:58:41,670 --> 00:58:45,000 may be and by the way, that $5 may be a lot for that person. 882 00:58:45,810 --> 00:58:49,740 And some people say, Man, I was 500 for me, I don't know, maybe 883 00:58:49,740 --> 00:58:52,350 they're sitting on a goldmine, I don't know. But when you do 884 00:58:52,350 --> 00:58:58,950 that, it's a much, much better transparent process. And no one 885 00:58:58,950 --> 00:59:03,540 ever feels diminished. I keep going back to and I was so 886 00:59:03,540 --> 00:59:08,610 disappointed when iTunes started to sell music. And everything 887 00:59:08,610 --> 00:59:11,790 was valued at 99 cents. And one of my favorite songs, I think 888 00:59:11,790 --> 00:59:14,250 it's the best love songs. I want to hold your hand by the 889 00:59:14,250 --> 00:59:17,460 Beatles. And when you when I look at that, and this is only 890 00:59:17,460 --> 00:59:21,480 99 cents. You know, I think, you know, Sir George Martin who 891 00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:25,740 produced it. I know I can hear the room that it was done in I 892 00:59:25,740 --> 00:59:31,920 can hear Paul and John and just and I like that's that's worth 893 00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:35,820 so much more to me. And if you'd only asked me or said what do 894 00:59:35,820 --> 00:59:38,490 you think it's worth I would have given you so much more. So 895 00:59:38,490 --> 00:59:41,880 I feel shortchanged because I couldn't give you the value that 896 00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:46,740 I thought it was and you know, since they will Apple's a public 897 00:59:46,740 --> 00:59:50,520 company they need to be able to project their revenues and their 898 00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:55,140 and their cost. But we don't have any of that. Which we just 899 00:59:55,140 --> 00:59:59,190 want to keep going from one day to the next and for the last 13 900 00:59:59,190 --> 01:00:02,160 years is how you live My life, my rent was determined by the 901 01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:06,600 value that people got from my work. And if the value was good, 902 01:00:07,110 --> 01:00:12,510 then I could pay rent and and have an extra coffee. And it's 903 01:00:12,510 --> 01:00:16,230 just, it keeps you on your toes, it keeps you doing your best 904 01:00:16,230 --> 01:00:19,770 work. And I feel it makes everybody happy about their 905 01:00:19,770 --> 01:00:21,810 contribution on all sides of the equation. 906 01:00:22,710 --> 01:00:26,850 I remember when I've been listening, I listened to no 907 01:00:26,850 --> 01:00:30,780 agenda for a minimum of 10 years, but maybe, maybe 11. And 908 01:00:30,990 --> 01:00:35,010 I remember when you made the transition, and left me vo to do 909 01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:38,970 to do no agenda full time. And I remember the disk it was the 910 01:00:38,970 --> 01:00:42,630 process. You talked about it for a few weeks. And then you 911 01:00:42,630 --> 01:00:45,270 finally made the jump, you're like I'm doing it. Now they're 912 01:00:45,300 --> 01:00:49,830 pulling the plug. I'm going all in. And, you know, when you did, 913 01:00:49,980 --> 01:00:53,430 when you did that, it was a, it was a risk, because you didn't 914 01:00:53,430 --> 01:00:56,490 know, you didn't, you didn't know whether the donations are 915 01:00:56,490 --> 01:00:59,940 gonna fall off a cliff or anything like that. When you 916 01:00:59,970 --> 01:01:03,240 when you put yourself out there, people step up, it's 917 01:01:03,780 --> 01:01:07,020 mankind at its best. And I was I was talking to my wife I was 918 01:01:07,020 --> 01:01:10,620 talking about, you know, how this is working. And she says, 919 01:01:10,620 --> 01:01:14,850 so everyone comes in, and she's she comes from the nonprofit 920 01:01:14,850 --> 01:01:17,340 world, she has a very different background. She used to be in 921 01:01:17,340 --> 01:01:21,990 banking a long time ago, more in the administrative side. It's 922 01:01:21,990 --> 01:01:25,050 just Okay, so let me understand. So everyone comes in to this 923 01:01:25,050 --> 01:01:30,900 group. And, and they share their software. And they share all the 924 01:01:30,900 --> 01:01:37,950 code and everyone can use it. Yeah. And really? Yeah, yeah, I 925 01:01:37,950 --> 01:01:41,490 know, it sounds strange. But that's some of the most, it's, 926 01:01:42,540 --> 01:01:45,660 like I've said it, this is art, you know, I see art being 927 01:01:45,660 --> 01:01:48,630 created. Yeah, there's science behind it and math and all that. 928 01:01:49,020 --> 01:01:52,440 I just see art, in every everything that's going on in 929 01:01:53,220 --> 01:01:56,850 with the index and with the with the developers and the right now 930 01:01:56,850 --> 01:02:00,990 hyper capture. Everywhere I look as beautiful art, it's it's 931 01:02:01,020 --> 01:02:07,980 expression of how people want to portray something and 932 01:02:07,980 --> 01:02:11,310 experience. It's one of the most beautiful human things there 933 01:02:11,310 --> 01:02:15,420 are. And it's interesting that it's found in this to me, in 934 01:02:15,420 --> 01:02:18,060 this environment. And yeah, that's exactly what it is. And 935 01:02:18,060 --> 01:02:21,720 you know, what is fun, because people can go take that code, 936 01:02:21,960 --> 01:02:24,360 and go off, and they can do stuff together, or they can 937 01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:26,520 build a billion dollar corporation, or they can 938 01:02:26,520 --> 01:02:29,190 continue to just do whatever they want with it just something 939 01:02:29,190 --> 01:02:35,070 for themselves. It's, it's so opposite of the entire world 940 01:02:35,250 --> 01:02:39,780 around us. It's the antithesis of it. It's, it's fantastic. And 941 01:02:39,780 --> 01:02:42,300 then you add some value for value on top of that, to keep 942 01:02:42,300 --> 01:02:45,480 things going. Where we do have to deal with with the outside 943 01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:49,560 world and actual prices and stuff. And I think it's for this 944 01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:53,040 very reason that as we move ahead, we're gonna see everybody 945 01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:56,640 benefiting. And I mean, financially, I see it, I can 946 01:02:56,640 --> 01:02:58,080 taste it, I can taste it. 947 01:02:58,710 --> 01:03:00,690 Yeah. Because the developers and everything they're sharing, 948 01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:03,450 that's the thing is the developers that are making all 949 01:03:03,450 --> 01:03:08,310 this plumbing that didn't make all of this possible. They've 950 01:03:08,340 --> 01:03:12,270 been left out of the loop. And that's the big time. But I mean, 951 01:03:12,270 --> 01:03:18,690 they're, they're left with just trying to, you know, sell a $9 952 01:03:18,690 --> 01:03:20,550 app on the App Store more. 953 01:03:20,970 --> 01:03:23,310 Banner ads are some banner ads. Yeah. 954 01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:27,090 Yeah. And we, you know, that's that's really the focus of phase 955 01:03:27,090 --> 01:03:30,330 two of this is trying to get trying to get bring the bring 956 01:03:30,330 --> 01:03:33,450 the app developers into the loop where they can do value for 957 01:03:33,450 --> 01:03:37,800 value, just like the podcasters can. Yep. Yeah. Thanks for doing 958 01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:40,560 that. Because I think I just hear that I hear you talk about 959 01:03:40,560 --> 01:03:44,130 value for value a lot. And people jump and make the false 960 01:03:44,190 --> 01:03:48,870 they make the incorrect association to, to Oh, yeah, you 961 01:03:48,870 --> 01:03:52,980 mean, hiding some of your content behind a paywall, so 962 01:03:53,010 --> 01:03:56,100 they need so that they give you money to get the value? And 963 01:03:56,100 --> 01:03:57,390 that's just not the way this works? 964 01:03:57,420 --> 01:04:01,860 Yeah, that's okay. That's a very good point. And that's just, 965 01:04:02,490 --> 01:04:05,550 that's just a decision that comes along with with the whole 966 01:04:05,550 --> 01:04:15,120 idea. I've just never and if you say to someone, okay, you want 967 01:04:15,120 --> 01:04:21,960 to listen to this, it's going to cost you 99 cents. If I dropped 968 01:04:21,960 --> 01:04:25,800 $1 and my back hurt, it's very possible. I wouldn't pick it up. 969 01:04:27,600 --> 01:04:29,850 I don't want to sound like I'm a rich guy, because I'm not but 970 01:04:30,030 --> 01:04:33,840 let's be honest about if I dropped three quarters in the 971 01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:38,640 drain, and I could bend down and I could get him. You might not 972 01:04:38,730 --> 01:04:42,450 be bummed but whatever. So you're diminishing an entire 973 01:04:42,450 --> 01:04:46,230 experience down to a number that you can or can't and then people 974 01:04:46,350 --> 01:04:49,260 it's become so unimportant. I think people go if it's not, 975 01:04:50,010 --> 01:04:53,490 it's probably not worth it. Even the trouble of signing up for 976 01:04:53,490 --> 01:04:58,080 something really, just to pay 99 cents. So once you make it free 977 01:04:58,080 --> 01:05:02,760 and open, and hey man If you like it, and you really like it, 978 01:05:03,210 --> 01:05:05,940 then you know then kick something back one way or the 979 01:05:05,940 --> 01:05:07,950 other. If you don't like it, and you're listening to it, what's 980 01:05:07,950 --> 01:05:12,930 wrong with you? I mean, it's your it's a good point. Yeah, I 981 01:05:12,930 --> 01:05:15,870 don't want you to risk anything. If you don't like it, then fine, 982 01:05:15,900 --> 01:05:18,570 then that's okay. If you'd like it a little bit, you're on the 983 01:05:18,570 --> 01:05:21,990 fence. Fine. That's, that's the value to you, Da Man, if the 984 01:05:21,990 --> 01:05:24,540 world worked like that, ah, well, so 985 01:05:24,540 --> 01:05:27,840 many people's value looks different, too. Because when not 986 01:05:27,840 --> 01:05:31,290 just the financial part, but you take a guy like Daniel J. Lewis, 987 01:05:31,650 --> 01:05:36,930 he's he's not contributing code. And he's not him he made done 988 01:05:36,930 --> 01:05:40,350 over here. He hasn't yet. But you know, the, the way he's 989 01:05:40,590 --> 01:05:47,550 giving us his value is by his experience, and shit and showing 990 01:05:47,550 --> 01:05:51,210 up on the GitHub repos and saying, Hey, guys, I think this 991 01:05:51,300 --> 01:05:55,380 is something y'all need to y'all need to consider. And that is 992 01:05:55,530 --> 01:05:57,120 every bit as valuable 993 01:05:57,120 --> 01:06:00,210 as a donation. Incredibly, yes. Well, that's what that's why I 994 01:06:00,210 --> 01:06:03,990 say the triple T's time, talent, treasure, just spending your 995 01:06:03,990 --> 01:06:10,530 time looking at it and say, Hey, one pixels off, that fucking 996 01:06:10,530 --> 01:06:15,810 matters. Yeah. Does that matter matters that in a corporation, 997 01:06:15,810 --> 01:06:20,970 there's a $60,000, a year person to do QA and find that, yeah, 998 01:06:20,970 --> 01:06:25,830 find the pixel. So that matters definitely very valid, that 999 01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:28,620 I didn't want to derail, I just want to make sure that it felt 1000 01:06:28,620 --> 01:06:32,700 important to talk about that. But that is a perfect segue, 1001 01:06:32,700 --> 01:06:36,390 though, into the chick, moving the puck 1002 01:06:36,450 --> 01:06:41,160 to sell out, sell out. Well, they're all going to come back, 1003 01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:44,520 eventually, you watch, they're all going to come back. 1004 01:06:44,820 --> 01:06:47,100 I'm afraid that's going to happen in this case, too. So if 1005 01:06:47,100 --> 01:06:54,060 you play Let me set this up. The name of the podcast is just 1006 01:06:54,060 --> 01:06:58,800 break up. And the I went back and listened to the show the 1007 01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:01,530 episode that they did the initial announcement that 1008 01:07:01,530 --> 01:07:06,030 they're moving to Spotify. And the announcement took like, 20 1009 01:07:06,030 --> 01:07:12,930 minutes. To me, it was a little long announcement. And that so 1010 01:07:12,960 --> 01:07:19,170 what Spotify? Let me say this, it's clear from listening to 1011 01:07:19,170 --> 01:07:23,340 this clip, if you just listen and read between the lines, it's 1012 01:07:23,340 --> 01:07:27,390 clear. You can what you're hearing is you're hearing the 1013 01:07:27,390 --> 01:07:31,050 meeting that took place between Spotify and and the podcaster. 1014 01:07:31,710 --> 01:07:36,450 And you're hearing what, what Spotify told them to emphasize 1015 01:07:36,450 --> 01:07:37,320 to their audience. 1016 01:07:38,340 --> 01:07:39,630 Oh, really? 1017 01:07:40,860 --> 01:07:43,500 I think so. As you listen to these clips, and tell me if you 1018 01:07:43,500 --> 01:07:47,430 think the same thing, okay, what what I hear in these clips, is 1019 01:07:47,460 --> 01:07:51,900 Spotify sending a message to their audience, and to other 1020 01:07:51,900 --> 01:07:59,520 podcasters Oh, okay, PLAY CLIP one. And now just break up takes 1021 01:07:59,520 --> 01:08:03,060 up easily, you know, without any growth right now, let's just 1022 01:08:03,060 --> 01:08:08,040 break up takes up, you know, 70% of my workload, and to be paid 1023 01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:12,930 less than part time, for my less, you know, my more than 1024 01:08:12,930 --> 01:08:17,100 part time work is, is it's hard on me. But you know, Spencer and 1025 01:08:17,100 --> 01:08:21,030 Sam and I, we really believe in the podcast. So we did this for 1026 01:08:21,030 --> 01:08:25,530 two years, because we wanted to get to a place where someone 1027 01:08:25,530 --> 01:08:28,470 like Spotify would offer us such an amazing partnership. 1028 01:08:29,190 --> 01:08:37,620 Okay, wow. I just had like a trauma flashback. Okay. To 1029 01:08:37,620 --> 01:08:42,960 people, people forget that in 2006, I started a podcast 1030 01:08:42,960 --> 01:08:50,370 network, in aggregate raised $65 million. To build it out over 1031 01:08:50,430 --> 01:08:54,150 one, I think the company finally disbanded about after 10 years. 1032 01:08:55,350 --> 01:09:00,720 And I was out before then, and all the pitfalls, all the things 1033 01:09:00,720 --> 01:09:04,290 that Spotify is gonna go through, I can predict. But 1034 01:09:04,290 --> 01:09:08,850 what's interesting about this particular clip, is when we did 1035 01:09:08,850 --> 01:09:13,260 it, and clearly, I was wrong thinking it would work. And I 1036 01:09:13,260 --> 01:09:16,230 have a lot of reasons that prove it's wrong and may never work. 1037 01:09:17,430 --> 01:09:20,910 Although in this case, you know, they have one extra advantages. 1038 01:09:20,910 --> 01:09:23,340 They're trying to lock these people in and not make them 1039 01:09:23,370 --> 01:09:29,520 public at all. We had the quit your day job. It's like come on 1040 01:09:29,520 --> 01:09:33,630 over to pod show or pod show. Thank you. We'll help you quit 1041 01:09:33,630 --> 01:09:36,510 your day job. And then all you'll have to do is podcasting. 1042 01:09:36,540 --> 01:09:40,620 And we definitely helped a lot of people quit their day job. 1043 01:09:41,880 --> 01:09:46,710 But did it everybody quit their day job? No, I mean, all the I 1044 01:09:46,710 --> 01:09:49,170 mean, we can get all the problems that that'll bring with 1045 01:09:49,170 --> 01:09:51,780 it. Maybe not totally appropriate for the show, but 1046 01:09:52,050 --> 01:09:54,810 that's exactly the message Spotify is sending. And so I 1047 01:09:54,810 --> 01:09:56,730 find that interesting. At least that's what I'm hearing. What 1048 01:09:56,730 --> 01:09:57,270 did you hear? 1049 01:09:58,380 --> 01:10:01,860 Yeah, well, that's exactly what I heard what I heard was the 1050 01:10:01,860 --> 01:10:08,010 meeting and the meeting is, is that the this spot a HUD five, 1051 01:10:08,010 --> 01:10:10,740 add to clipboard? And they said, Okay, look, what we want you to 1052 01:10:10,740 --> 01:10:13,980 do is emphasize in your announcement that you're going 1053 01:10:13,980 --> 01:10:17,130 to get a living wage. Fine. All right, right. Right. Right. 1054 01:10:17,160 --> 01:10:21,180 You're, you're finally going to get paid for your work. And I 1055 01:10:21,180 --> 01:10:25,410 think that is a message not to the listeners, but to other 1056 01:10:25,410 --> 01:10:26,400 podcasters. 1057 01:10:26,970 --> 01:10:29,970 Oh, totally. It is. It's always that's always what it is. Yes, 1058 01:10:29,970 --> 01:10:30,570 of course. 1059 01:10:31,800 --> 01:10:35,580 Yeah, play play clip, too. I'll reiterate what Sam said, which 1060 01:10:35,580 --> 01:10:41,160 is that we have 100% creative control, the show is still free. 1061 01:10:41,820 --> 01:10:45,990 Because we have to stress this, because I didn't even know this 1062 01:10:45,990 --> 01:10:50,760 because in one of our meetings, one of our team, Spotify team 1063 01:10:50,760 --> 01:10:53,940 members was like, Yeah, Spotify does such a good job pushing the 1064 01:10:53,940 --> 01:10:57,960 premium membership have their app that like everybody didn't, 1065 01:10:57,990 --> 01:11:03,150 doesn't realize that there The app is free. And I was like 1066 01:11:03,150 --> 01:11:06,690 under that misunderstanding, too. Even when we started 1067 01:11:06,690 --> 01:11:08,820 conversations with Spotify, I was like, Oh, shit, like, do 1068 01:11:08,820 --> 01:11:12,360 people have to get a Spotify Premium Account? No, Spotify app 1069 01:11:12,360 --> 01:11:15,300 is 100%. Free, you can download it today, you don't need a 1070 01:11:15,300 --> 01:11:20,130 credit card. And so our show will stay the same. You'll just 1071 01:11:20,130 --> 01:11:22,530 need to download a new app to listen to it if you don't 1072 01:11:22,530 --> 01:11:23,760 already use Spotify. 1073 01:11:24,660 --> 01:11:27,120 By now while stocks last. 1074 01:11:28,710 --> 01:11:34,350 And I want to say this upfront. I have no but this is not 1075 01:11:34,350 --> 01:11:38,880 criticism. I mean, like this is if this was the right move for 1076 01:11:38,880 --> 01:11:42,240 them. That's great. And I have no problem with with Spotify 1077 01:11:42,240 --> 01:11:46,020 off. And this is not me trying to criticize any any players in 1078 01:11:46,020 --> 01:11:49,590 this whole game is just I think it's good to see the clarity 1079 01:11:49,590 --> 01:11:52,440 behind what was happening, because what I heard in that 1080 01:11:52,440 --> 01:11:57,420 clip was okay, emphasize when you have your announcement, did 1081 01:11:57,420 --> 01:11:59,130 you hear retaining creative control? 1082 01:11:59,370 --> 01:12:02,760 Oh, yeah. And which, which is really great. Go ahead, I'll 1083 01:12:02,760 --> 01:12:03,990 tell you what's going to happen. Go ahead. 1084 01:12:05,610 --> 01:12:09,270 And also say at least, maybe, I don't know, seven or eight times 1085 01:12:09,270 --> 01:12:10,290 that is going to be for free 1086 01:12:10,320 --> 01:12:13,800 app is free, no change you. Right. And here's what's cool 1087 01:12:13,800 --> 01:12:19,650 about it, when you have total creative control. And it's free, 1088 01:12:19,680 --> 01:12:22,350 that means Spotify is going to put ads in front of your 1089 01:12:22,350 --> 01:12:27,780 podcast, which is fine. They will also do midroll podcast. If 1090 01:12:27,780 --> 01:12:29,700 anyone tells you that's not true, they're doing it. I know 1091 01:12:29,700 --> 01:12:35,100 that I know that for sure. But the problem is that when you 1092 01:12:35,100 --> 01:12:38,820 have creative control, the advertisers may not be that 1093 01:12:38,820 --> 01:12:43,620 interested because of your content. And that's when you're 1094 01:12:43,620 --> 01:12:48,630 going it's I was listening to who's who's on the gimlet stuff. 1095 01:12:48,660 --> 01:12:50,370 What are some of the gimlet shows? 1096 01:12:50,970 --> 01:12:55,140 Lord? I don't know. I'm not up on them. Yeah, there were some 1097 01:12:55,170 --> 01:12:56,700 did they get bought by Spotify? 1098 01:12:56,730 --> 01:13:03,360 Yeah, there was. Was? Yeah, so gimlet, I guess gimlet also does 1099 01:13:03,360 --> 01:13:08,520 the Michelle Obama podcast. And I don't know if it was let me 1100 01:13:08,520 --> 01:13:13,740 just see which one of the shows that was the current shows. It 1101 01:13:13,740 --> 01:13:18,270 may have been startup. But it could have been maybe reply all. 1102 01:13:20,250 --> 01:13:22,920 It was some thread, maybe there's a Reddit thread. It's 1103 01:13:22,920 --> 01:13:27,150 like, Hey, man, you got some weird advertisers on your, on 1104 01:13:27,150 --> 01:13:29,700 your show, like some something that kind of goes against your 1105 01:13:29,700 --> 01:13:32,940 whole, the whole vibe of the show? And the answer was, yeah, 1106 01:13:32,940 --> 01:13:37,650 we stopped doing the host reads because Spotify has the, you 1107 01:13:37,650 --> 01:13:41,670 know, has the right to put them in there. But since we can't 1108 01:13:41,670 --> 01:13:45,300 choose our sponsors, we won't read the host reads. I mean, 1109 01:13:45,420 --> 01:13:50,550 it's friction. Advertising is censorship. Believe me, that's 1110 01:13:50,550 --> 01:13:54,990 just a shortcut to the whole story. Yeah, you will, you know, 1111 01:13:54,990 --> 01:13:57,930 if you're completely free, and you and your F bombing or what 1112 01:13:57,930 --> 01:14:01,650 like she just did, some sponsors will not appreciate that. And 1113 01:14:01,650 --> 01:14:03,810 you will not get the ads and then eventually, the ad 1114 01:14:03,810 --> 01:14:06,870 departments gonna say Hey, how come? We can't sell any ad and 1115 01:14:06,870 --> 01:14:10,530 it's a never ending loop. It's how it goes. It's advertising is 1116 01:14:10,830 --> 01:14:12,570 censorship. Ultimately. 1117 01:14:12,810 --> 01:14:16,170 That's not you. That's not you guessing at this. That's not 1118 01:14:16,170 --> 01:14:16,890 that's me knowing 1119 01:14:16,920 --> 01:14:21,330 that's me. No, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, hell, yeah. You BMW. You 1120 01:14:21,330 --> 01:14:23,670 think they want to be on something with F bombs? No, they 1121 01:14:23,670 --> 01:14:26,730 don't. They just don't know. And they check it and then you know, 1122 01:14:26,730 --> 01:14:30,750 they know the DNA of where things are going. But that 1123 01:14:30,750 --> 01:14:33,630 doesn't matter. I'm happy. Just maybe totally clean podcast. I 1124 01:14:33,630 --> 01:14:36,660 don't know. It could be perfect for them. It's not okay. 1125 01:14:36,870 --> 01:14:40,680 No, not not at all. Interesting. It's not it's not a bad product. 1126 01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:44,130 I mean, I listened to a couple of shows to get some clips and 1127 01:14:45,090 --> 01:14:49,830 it's a great podcast. I like it a lot. I hate to see it go. The 1128 01:14:50,670 --> 01:14:53,760 Yeah, LET'S PLAY CLIP three and then I'll tell you what I hear 1129 01:14:53,760 --> 01:14:56,640 in this. You know, another thing I forgot to say in my little 1130 01:14:57,390 --> 01:15:01,200 tangent about like, okay, stop, stop, stop. Stop it. I play that 1131 01:15:01,200 --> 01:15:04,440 again. And she says it right up front. She said another thing I 1132 01:15:04,440 --> 01:15:07,680 forgot to say, you know, another thing I forgot to say in my 1133 01:15:07,680 --> 01:15:10,200 little tangent about like, 1134 01:15:10,320 --> 01:15:12,060 Kentia. What's that word? Kentia? 1135 01:15:12,450 --> 01:15:14,070 tangent. Tangent. 1136 01:15:14,760 --> 01:15:17,580 Okay, oops, I forgot it's on my list. I forgot it was part of 1137 01:15:17,580 --> 01:15:20,400 the talking points of the Deal Memo. Oh, darn. 1138 01:15:20,430 --> 01:15:23,880 You know, another thing I forgot to say in my little tangent 1139 01:15:23,910 --> 01:15:27,150 about like paying people who offer a free creative service is 1140 01:15:27,150 --> 01:15:30,690 that I won't like, name names here. But when we were talking 1141 01:15:30,690 --> 01:15:34,710 with one of our Spotify team members, something that they 1142 01:15:34,710 --> 01:15:39,090 brought up was that a partnership with Spotify allowed 1143 01:15:39,120 --> 01:15:43,650 a major, another major podcast, one way bigger than ours to 1144 01:15:43,650 --> 01:15:46,590 finally be able to provide health insurance for their 1145 01:15:46,590 --> 01:15:50,340 hosts. And I thought that that was such like a beautiful, 1146 01:15:50,340 --> 01:15:55,350 tangible, you know? Sure. It, it might be, it might like Sam 1147 01:15:55,350 --> 01:15:57,660 said, there might be a small inconvenience of changing where 1148 01:15:57,660 --> 01:16:01,410 you listen to this app. But it's still going to be free. And now 1149 01:16:01,440 --> 01:16:03,810 your favorite host can like go to the doctor. 1150 01:16:04,470 --> 01:16:10,320 Wow. Wow. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. What do you hear there, Dave? 1151 01:16:10,500 --> 01:16:14,850 Well, I heard when you talk about on the show, to call it a 1152 01:16:14,850 --> 01:16:21,420 partnership, number one, don't call it an acquisition. And also 1153 01:16:22,050 --> 01:16:27,450 emphasize that this is a this is a way for you to like meet your 1154 01:16:27,450 --> 01:16:28,650 basic human needs. 1155 01:16:30,420 --> 01:16:35,460 As a man, well, that is that I have to say, it's one step 1156 01:16:35,460 --> 01:16:37,980 better than quit your day job. It's like and get good health 1157 01:16:37,980 --> 01:16:41,430 care. I mean, if I only thought of that, back in the in the pod 1158 01:16:41,430 --> 01:16:42,960 show days, it might have worked. 1159 01:16:44,220 --> 01:16:46,440 It just seemed like when I was listening to that announcement, 1160 01:16:46,440 --> 01:16:50,250 I thought, this is just, I think what you're hearing and again, 1161 01:16:50,700 --> 01:16:53,160 that's fine. There's no criticism here. It's all good. 1162 01:16:53,310 --> 01:16:58,980 But what I'm hearing is just, this is, okay, here's how it 1163 01:16:58,980 --> 01:17:03,360 struck me. So Spotify comes in with their Joe Rogan deal and 1164 01:17:03,360 --> 01:17:08,460 does. Boom, 100 100 million, or whatever the package was, you 1165 01:17:08,460 --> 01:17:11,010 know, and that's them planting their flag and saying, We're 1166 01:17:11,010 --> 01:17:14,910 here, baby, we're going to, we've got some big money to play 1167 01:17:14,910 --> 01:17:20,130 with and get ready. And they let every other podcaster know that 1168 01:17:20,430 --> 01:17:24,540 you're on your on your on the block like we can, we may come 1169 01:17:24,540 --> 01:17:26,040 to you and want to buy you. 1170 01:17:26,220 --> 01:17:29,070 It's like the early days of Twitter when you could be on the 1171 01:17:29,070 --> 01:17:30,660 Friends of Twitter list. 1172 01:17:31,050 --> 01:17:35,340 Yeah, yeah, that's a great, that's a good analogy. So like, 1173 01:17:35,520 --> 01:17:40,440 they're, they set the stage with that note with that one. And now 1174 01:17:40,530 --> 01:17:43,350 they're gonna do now they're gonna start picking off shows. 1175 01:17:43,860 --> 01:17:49,200 And each show is going to do probably a read like this, where 1176 01:17:49,200 --> 01:17:52,440 they basically go over these talking points. Sure, 1177 01:17:52,440 --> 01:18:04,470 sure. Make sure everybody but looking at Oh, God, if I am, I 1178 01:18:04,470 --> 01:18:08,670 hate myself. There's so many names that have the word cast. 1179 01:18:09,240 --> 01:18:14,610 So cast coverage.com When I look at CAST coverage.com When I use 1180 01:18:14,640 --> 01:18:18,870 a pod friends, pod friender I mean, give me a break. Martin, 1181 01:18:18,870 --> 01:18:22,740 you are you're cracking me the EFF up with that. I'm swiping 1182 01:18:22,740 --> 01:18:25,980 left, I'm swiping right. Like I love podcasts. I want to date 1183 01:18:25,980 --> 01:18:31,470 them. The stuff that I find. It's like, that's the World Man. 1184 01:18:31,470 --> 01:18:34,950 That's the universe. I just don't I mean, Spotify doesn't 1185 01:18:34,950 --> 01:18:38,070 realize it yet. And I don't know exactly. It may be I'm sure 1186 01:18:38,070 --> 01:18:42,960 there's very capable people in there. But you know, I said this 1187 01:18:43,050 --> 01:18:47,610 on Joe Rogan's show. I'm so happy for you. I gotta make sure 1188 01:18:47,610 --> 01:18:50,550 that we can have our the next five Joe Rogan's who he also 1189 01:18:50,550 --> 01:18:55,470 said they're there already. Make sure they got a place. Yeah. And 1190 01:18:57,900 --> 01:19:01,260 when it doesn't work out for the for the lucky few because I 1191 01:19:01,260 --> 01:19:03,690 won't I mean, there's, there's a cut, there's going to be cuts. 1192 01:19:03,690 --> 01:19:06,960 It's just how it goes. That's how it goes in mainstream media. 1193 01:19:06,960 --> 01:19:11,310 I've been fired from media jobs as our goes on may not even be 1194 01:19:11,310 --> 01:19:13,620 your fault. Maybe you got the wrong time. So whatever it is, 1195 01:19:14,460 --> 01:19:17,670 you'll all be welcome back. And maybe when you come back, we'll 1196 01:19:17,670 --> 01:19:20,850 have a way for you to make money too. If you're good. And if 1197 01:19:20,850 --> 01:19:23,430 you're not even if you're good. If you have an audience if you 1198 01:19:23,430 --> 01:19:27,900 can if you can build an audience around you, then yeah, I think 1199 01:19:27,900 --> 01:19:28,260 so. 1200 01:19:28,860 --> 01:19:32,880 And I'm, I'm afraid this show in particular make a comeback. And 1201 01:19:32,880 --> 01:19:37,920 just because, like you can, you can kind of hear it if you if 1202 01:19:37,920 --> 01:19:42,480 you go to go to clip five, 1203 01:19:43,019 --> 01:19:47,339 please click follow to get new episodes every Monday only on 1204 01:19:47,339 --> 01:19:50,819 Spotify reminder that we are moving exclusively to Spotify on 1205 01:19:50,819 --> 01:19:55,769 October 19. That is two weeks from today. So please make that 1206 01:19:55,769 --> 01:19:59,009 move so that you can continue to listen to all of the good stuff 1207 01:19:59,009 --> 01:20:02,039 that we put out. and please also consider supporting us on 1208 01:20:02,039 --> 01:20:05,159 Patreon. If you support us on Patreon for as little as $5 a 1209 01:20:05,159 --> 01:20:08,039 month, you will get an additional bonus weekly episode. 1210 01:20:08,039 --> 01:20:12,479 That's patreon.com/just Break up pod. This literally keeps the 1211 01:20:12,479 --> 01:20:15,929 mics on and helps us reach more brokenhearted souls who need to 1212 01:20:15,929 --> 01:20:18,269 random strangers giving them relationship advice. 1213 01:20:19,170 --> 01:20:23,400 So that that tells me you know, they're doing the they're doing 1214 01:20:23,400 --> 01:20:28,320 the play, you know, please download the app. Yeah. They're 1215 01:20:28,320 --> 01:20:29,400 keeping the Patreon. I was 1216 01:20:29,400 --> 01:20:33,060 gonna say they get to keep the Patreon. That's okay, then that 1217 01:20:33,060 --> 01:20:35,220 deal was a lot smaller than we think it is. 1218 01:20:35,820 --> 01:20:39,690 Yeah, and I don't know that. You know, at some point, I gave them 1219 01:20:39,690 --> 01:20:43,830 health care. That's what it is. Patreon, here some health care. 1220 01:20:44,460 --> 01:20:47,250 That sounds a pretty good deal. Yeah, 1221 01:20:47,970 --> 01:20:51,240 sure. Hey, healthcare is real money. 1222 01:20:51,660 --> 01:20:55,830 Yeah. But I don't know, I just think that that a lot of these 1223 01:20:55,830 --> 01:20:58,890 shows are going to make the jump in their audience is not. 1224 01:20:59,460 --> 01:21:04,110 Because here's the harsh reality. As good as your show 1225 01:21:04,110 --> 01:21:13,860 is, user behavior is very hard to overcome. And you are not 1226 01:21:13,890 --> 01:21:18,780 going to get a very large percentage of your audience to 1227 01:21:18,780 --> 01:21:24,630 flip out of overcast or Apple podcast or hyper capture over to 1228 01:21:24,630 --> 01:21:28,200 Spotify. Listen to your show, then flip back to listen to the 1229 01:21:28,200 --> 01:21:30,180 rest of their stuff. It's just not going to happen. 1230 01:21:30,720 --> 01:21:34,770 Well, even. I mean, I think we have discussed it with so many 1231 01:21:34,770 --> 01:21:36,900 people. I think we brought it up here in regard to Michelle 1232 01:21:36,900 --> 01:21:41,190 Obama's podcast. So they had problems reading, they're 1233 01:21:41,220 --> 01:21:44,040 reaching their quotas, clearly for their ads for their launch 1234 01:21:44,040 --> 01:21:47,760 partner partners. And, and then it was like, Oh, we're going to 1235 01:21:47,790 --> 01:21:51,270 is so great. We're gonna put it on all platforms, which 1236 01:21:51,270 --> 01:21:55,440 basically means Oh, we better unexcused, suffi that so that we 1237 01:21:55,440 --> 01:22:01,650 can get the ads, the ad plays that we promised. The the, the 1238 01:22:01,650 --> 01:22:06,750 user base of Spotify is a user base that listens to music. And 1239 01:22:06,750 --> 01:22:09,840 there are people in this world who are in the car and listen to 1240 01:22:09,840 --> 01:22:12,690 music, who are walking, listen to music or jogging, working 1241 01:22:12,690 --> 01:22:14,940 out, listen to music, and there are people who listen to 1242 01:22:14,940 --> 01:22:18,720 podcasts. And there are people listen to podcasts, much more 1243 01:22:18,720 --> 01:22:21,420 than music and people listen to music much more than podcast. 1244 01:22:22,050 --> 01:22:25,530 The people on spot who are Spotify users are going to in 1245 01:22:25,530 --> 01:22:29,280 general, be music listeners who may occasionally want to listen 1246 01:22:29,280 --> 01:22:35,850 to a podcast. So they are Spotify is buying audience. And 1247 01:22:35,850 --> 01:22:40,290 yes, I think you will get a large majority of your Joe Rogan 1248 01:22:40,470 --> 01:22:44,490 audience to go to Spotify. But they're not gonna listen to 1249 01:22:44,490 --> 01:22:46,920 Michelle Obama, I think it's going to be a different audience 1250 01:22:46,920 --> 01:22:51,660 could be wrong. So so they have to transition their own 1251 01:22:51,660 --> 01:22:56,310 audience. That's even harder have a job. You've got an 1252 01:22:56,310 --> 01:22:59,130 audience that is dialed into this. They know their playlists 1253 01:22:59,130 --> 01:23:01,890 to share and playlists. They know exactly what what they want 1254 01:23:01,890 --> 01:23:04,290 the music they want to listen to the new songs where to find 1255 01:23:04,290 --> 01:23:08,850 them. And now podcasts Okay, fine. Yeah, they're probably 1256 01:23:08,850 --> 01:23:11,940 using a different app for podcasts. Now, I know a lot of 1257 01:23:11,940 --> 01:23:17,160 people who listen to my own podcast and Spotify or did it's 1258 01:23:17,160 --> 01:23:21,450 just no, that's, that's a hard Well, that's the other thing. 1259 01:23:21,480 --> 01:23:26,400 You know, be careful what you sign. That's hard for Spotify to 1260 01:23:26,400 --> 01:23:29,970 do. That's very hard for them to do. It's just it's a tough job. 1261 01:23:30,300 --> 01:23:32,820 And you can hear it in the read it's just so much focus on 1262 01:23:32,820 --> 01:23:35,370 please just download the app is great. Please download the app, 1263 01:23:35,370 --> 01:23:39,840 please download the app. Like so the the other thing that kind of 1264 01:23:39,840 --> 01:23:45,060 surrounds this. Oh, wait, play. I saw one. 1265 01:23:46,890 --> 01:23:52,080 I saw one. You go. Like do you want serious entertainment 1266 01:23:52,080 --> 01:23:53,370 because we can turn on Netflix. 1267 01:23:56,040 --> 01:23:56,640 Okay 1268 01:23:58,890 --> 01:24:05,700 is the so they talked a lot about this. In in the rate in 1269 01:24:05,700 --> 01:24:09,060 the raid I don't think I have a clip of it. But he kept saying 1270 01:24:09,060 --> 01:24:12,810 that they were going to be exclusive to Spotify. And then 1271 01:24:12,810 --> 01:24:15,450 we're going to take them in. They said we're going to be 1272 01:24:15,450 --> 01:24:19,410 exclusive and our back catalogue. Right What I want to 1273 01:24:19,500 --> 01:24:22,260 do what I want to know is current currently they're listed 1274 01:24:22,260 --> 01:24:27,480 in podcast index. When they say back catalogue, does that mean 1275 01:24:27,660 --> 01:24:31,290 that everyone else has to D list their previous episodes? 1276 01:24:33,150 --> 01:24:35,160 I believe so. So 1277 01:24:35,190 --> 01:24:37,680 do we legally have to take it off the index? 1278 01:24:37,889 --> 01:24:42,059 No, no, no, no they're going to do is that that that will stay 1279 01:24:42,059 --> 01:24:45,599 the same but I believe they will remove their mp3 files. I think 1280 01:24:45,599 --> 01:24:47,849 that's what Joe Rogan is going to do come December too. 1281 01:24:48,809 --> 01:24:52,199 So that that gives me that gives that's a perfect idea for an 1282 01:24:52,199 --> 01:24:59,969 app, the archive the shows that are about to disappear. It's a 1283 01:24:59,999 --> 01:25:04,439 All right. Uh huh. And it can't somebody make an app and with 1284 01:25:04,439 --> 01:25:09,479 just like, oh, this shows about to go away, boom, grab, grab 125 1285 01:25:09,479 --> 01:25:14,189 mp3 is all set? I mean, I don't know. Well, I guess we'll stay 1286 01:25:14,189 --> 01:25:15,989 on the index for average break. I guess 1287 01:25:15,990 --> 01:25:19,650 that's it. Yeah, it'll break. It's very traditional Hollywood 1288 01:25:19,650 --> 01:25:23,160 type deal. It's, it's analogous to the Rogen deal. That's the 1289 01:25:23,160 --> 01:25:27,630 template, it's just a licensing deal, which means they can 1290 01:25:27,630 --> 01:25:31,110 decide not to put your episode up, they will pay you. But it 1291 01:25:31,110 --> 01:25:35,940 won't go out if the if whatever happens. Okay, let me tell you 1292 01:25:35,940 --> 01:25:41,130 where we're headed with this. I'm gonna use a different 1293 01:25:41,130 --> 01:25:51,420 analogy. The modern media model has become subscription and 1294 01:25:51,420 --> 01:25:58,500 streaming. And what we see is that families at home now have 1295 01:25:58,530 --> 01:26:06,480 since she mentioned it, Netflix, Hulu, Apple, TV, Amazon, there's 1296 01:26:06,480 --> 01:26:12,510 a couple more cable. And at the end of the month, when you look 1297 01:26:12,510 --> 01:26:19,140 at your aggregate, one 150 $150 bill for all of these services 1298 01:26:19,140 --> 01:26:25,680 together, you go to yourself and say, self, I am watching one 1299 01:26:25,680 --> 01:26:30,870 show on Hulu. I'm watching three shows on Netflix, I'm paying for 1300 01:26:30,870 --> 01:26:37,380 all this other stuff. And look at the bill. And the postmodern 1301 01:26:37,950 --> 01:26:41,790 model, which I think is where podcasting where we can take 1302 01:26:41,790 --> 01:26:49,560 podcasting is I want to transfer value directly to the person who 1303 01:26:49,560 --> 01:26:55,260 is giving me this fabulous entertainment. Because Spotify 1304 01:26:55,260 --> 01:26:58,080 is going in that direction, and they're all trying to create 1305 01:26:58,080 --> 01:27:03,930 their little fiefdoms. And the difference is the production 1306 01:27:03,930 --> 01:27:08,190 cost of a good podcast is not like that of a good Netflix or 1307 01:27:08,190 --> 01:27:13,380 Amazon show. So there's going to be so much beauty outside of 1308 01:27:13,380 --> 01:27:19,620 these individual silos of streaming subscription. I think 1309 01:27:19,620 --> 01:27:22,650 they're going to lose, they I don't think this is a war, they 1310 01:27:22,650 --> 01:27:25,800 can win. They just haven't done the numbers yet. Granted, we 1311 01:27:25,800 --> 01:27:28,890 don't have the value system flowing within podcasting yet, 1312 01:27:29,100 --> 01:27:32,700 but that's not far off. Yeah. Does that make any sense? 1313 01:27:34,080 --> 01:27:37,320 Yeah, I think so. I think it makes perfect sense. Because 1314 01:27:37,650 --> 01:27:41,700 whatever the this the cable cutter that could the wire 1315 01:27:41,700 --> 01:27:45,360 cutter, your cutter. Yeah, of course. Yeah. cord cutters. The 1316 01:27:45,360 --> 01:27:49,170 cord cutter movement always had at its core as its core promise 1317 01:27:49,200 --> 01:27:54,180 as NLL say this, as did cloud computing always had, as its 1318 01:27:54,180 --> 01:27:56,550 core of common that you were going to, you're going to, 1319 01:27:56,910 --> 01:28:00,090 you're going to save money because you're going to, you're 1320 01:28:00,090 --> 01:28:03,360 going to only pay for what you use, you're not going to have to 1321 01:28:03,360 --> 01:28:07,830 pay for all this for a bunch of channels that you never want. 1322 01:28:07,860 --> 01:28:08,250 And here 1323 01:28:08,250 --> 01:28:12,660 we are. And it's exactly what we have. Exactly. If you're into 1324 01:28:12,660 --> 01:28:17,730 podcasting, you're getting out yes, you don't have to pay, the 1325 01:28:17,730 --> 01:28:20,370 app is free. I want to repeat it again, because we had the 1326 01:28:20,370 --> 01:28:24,720 meeting, the app is free. However, you're gonna get ads. 1327 01:28:25,740 --> 01:28:30,540 And I find ads. I grew up in advertising. I've built huge 1328 01:28:30,870 --> 01:28:34,800 company in advertising. I started a lot of internet 1329 01:28:34,800 --> 01:28:40,530 advertising, even some of the models. Gosh, do I enjoy not 1330 01:28:40,530 --> 01:28:44,130 having to do it? And do I enjoy? This is a podcast that I don't 1331 01:28:44,130 --> 01:28:48,120 have to listen to it. And I'm happy that I'm so willing to 1332 01:28:48,120 --> 01:28:51,480 part with some of my money for it. It's just Yeah, at the end 1333 01:28:51,480 --> 01:28:55,530 of the month, I want to be paying $30 For just the things I 1334 01:28:55,530 --> 01:28:57,750 listened to. That's what I want to do. 1335 01:28:58,620 --> 01:29:01,830 Absolutely. And there's no, there's no way to do that within 1336 01:29:01,830 --> 01:29:05,460 this subscription model. I mean, there's just not a way to do 1337 01:29:05,460 --> 01:29:09,780 that. But I mean, because what, what always happens with a 1338 01:29:09,780 --> 01:29:13,140 subscription model is you sign up, you get to this, you get to 1339 01:29:13,140 --> 01:29:16,200 this threshold where you're like, Okay, I am, I'm doing 1340 01:29:16,200 --> 01:29:20,940 this, fill in the blank activity a lot, carwash, whatever, you 1341 01:29:20,940 --> 01:29:26,100 know, in your you're like, Okay, or you're using an apple, okay, 1342 01:29:26,100 --> 01:29:30,090 okay, I'll do that. I'll do the $10 month subscription. And then 1343 01:29:30,090 --> 01:29:34,800 you never in your your usage plummets, and then like a month 1344 01:29:34,800 --> 01:29:36,840 in and then like three months later, you're like, I'm still 1345 01:29:36,840 --> 01:29:37,260 paying for 1346 01:29:37,260 --> 01:29:41,430 this and then it becomes an actual annoyance. It does and 1347 01:29:41,430 --> 01:29:41,580 then you 1348 01:29:41,580 --> 01:29:42,660 have to go get out of it. 1349 01:29:44,160 --> 01:29:48,570 Exactly. Exactly. You know, I got a note from a producer 1350 01:29:48,570 --> 01:29:51,000 today. I think we're going to we probably won't discuss it on no 1351 01:29:51,000 --> 01:29:54,840 agenda for a whole bunch of reasons. He's in India, and he 1352 01:29:54,840 --> 01:29:57,510 was trying to make a donation through PayPal and PayPal said 1353 01:29:57,510 --> 01:30:01,680 we don't allow this to this country. peered in Hoonah and 1354 01:30:01,680 --> 01:30:05,970 Devorah back went to go look. And apparently this is some Visa 1355 01:30:05,970 --> 01:30:09,570 has Visa MasterCard, they're the ultimate guys behind all the all 1356 01:30:09,570 --> 01:30:14,100 the payment systems. They are doing some of their some like 1357 01:30:14,100 --> 01:30:17,610 digital payment between India and the US and they're ramping 1358 01:30:17,610 --> 01:30:20,850 that up and rolling it out. And so they just decide, okay, we're 1359 01:30:20,850 --> 01:30:25,170 going to cut off Pay Pal use this or don't. Holy crap. Yeah, 1360 01:30:25,200 --> 01:30:30,210 I mean, and that's going to affect Patreon. It's going to 1361 01:30:30,210 --> 01:30:32,820 affect all kinds of stuff all kinds of people know. 1362 01:30:33,720 --> 01:30:37,590 Yeah, that's, that's messed up in that. Yeah, that's just you, 1363 01:30:37,830 --> 01:30:38,250 if you 1364 01:30:39,600 --> 01:30:43,200 look, so the bottom line, bottom line value for value is the 1365 01:30:43,200 --> 01:30:44,580 model we're thinking of? 1366 01:30:45,240 --> 01:30:50,940 Yeah, definitely. Getting out of that chain. Yeah. The new ISO 1367 01:30:50,940 --> 01:30:51,420 three. 1368 01:30:53,040 --> 01:30:56,250 Okay, I can already see by the title, it's gonna be funny. I 1369 01:30:56,250 --> 01:31:00,930 don't know, sales or whatever. That's the model. That's how 1370 01:31:00,930 --> 01:31:02,580 they're gonna make money sales or whatever. 1371 01:31:02,610 --> 01:31:09,570 Yeah. Sales or whatever. Whatever. Yeah, that I just 1372 01:31:09,570 --> 01:31:11,430 think, you know, like I say, I have nothing I have nothing 1373 01:31:11,430 --> 01:31:16,080 against any, any podcasts doing what they need to do. And taking 1374 01:31:16,080 --> 01:31:20,010 the money and run but, you know, I mean, I think they're just 1375 01:31:20,010 --> 01:31:22,050 gonna it's gonna be they're gonna have to have a wake up 1376 01:31:22,050 --> 01:31:25,080 call. It's, they're gonna have a wake up call at some point when 1377 01:31:25,080 --> 01:31:28,290 the audience just drops off. Well, it means 1378 01:31:28,590 --> 01:31:33,780 when they are ready to just break up with Spotify. We did 1379 01:31:33,780 --> 01:31:37,410 not we I did. Yeah, I did. We will. We will welcome them with 1380 01:31:37,410 --> 01:31:41,760 open arms. Because we'll leave it on the index. Of course we 1381 01:31:41,760 --> 01:31:45,300 will. They can pick it right up. No problem. We'll be here for 1382 01:31:45,300 --> 01:31:45,930 you. Come on. 1383 01:31:46,049 --> 01:31:52,949 We're never gone. Never. What else? We I got so much stuff 1384 01:31:52,979 --> 01:31:53,639 written down. But 1385 01:31:53,670 --> 01:31:54,720 yeah, what's on your paper? Man? 1386 01:31:54,719 --> 01:31:56,129 What else? You like two hours? 1387 01:31:57,840 --> 01:32:00,330 Give me the I'm sure you got some stuff that's at the top of 1388 01:32:00,330 --> 01:32:02,220 the pile we can do before we get out of here. 1389 01:32:03,660 --> 01:32:13,260 Yeah, well, the on the namespace front. Let's let's just say 1390 01:32:13,260 --> 01:32:19,680 this. As the end, this is a good follow up to what we just talked 1391 01:32:19,680 --> 01:32:21,030 about. The 1392 01:32:22,470 --> 01:32:27,690 I think the way what people need to understand is that the these 1393 01:32:28,320 --> 01:32:31,710 the the big players in this binder, podcast industry, the 1394 01:32:31,710 --> 01:32:38,670 Google, the apple, the Spotify, those guys, they they are not 1395 01:32:38,910 --> 01:32:43,950 trying to preserve independent podcasting. No, at best, what 1396 01:32:43,950 --> 01:32:46,170 they're trying, what they're doing is they're using it as 1397 01:32:46,170 --> 01:32:51,480 sort of a triple A for Major League Baseball. They're they're 1398 01:32:51,480 --> 01:32:54,480 looking out there and see and who they want to bring up to the 1399 01:32:54,480 --> 01:32:58,320 major leagues. They don't care in this and we're using the 1400 01:32:58,320 --> 01:33:01,530 reasons related the namespace is because there's this feeling 1401 01:33:01,530 --> 01:33:05,130 within that, that I pick up on a lot. There's this feeling within 1402 01:33:05,340 --> 01:33:08,700 players in the industry that in the amongst podcast hosts and 1403 01:33:08,700 --> 01:33:14,670 that kind of thing, that we that we need everybody at the table 1404 01:33:15,540 --> 01:33:20,430 like this, the namespace, and the specs won't work because 1405 01:33:21,870 --> 01:33:26,250 Apple and Google and Spotify not everybody is represented. But 1406 01:33:26,790 --> 01:33:28,650 the problem is they don't those guys don't care. 1407 01:33:28,680 --> 01:33:32,820 They don't care. That's they don't care about you at all at 1408 01:33:32,820 --> 01:33:37,200 all at all. They're nice guys. I know the apple guys. They're 1409 01:33:37,200 --> 01:33:41,310 nice guy. They actually yes, human beings. Of course, they 1410 01:33:41,310 --> 01:33:44,610 care they've been and they've they've bent over backwards for 1411 01:33:44,610 --> 01:33:48,990 me. They've promoted they've been so kind, but they know that 1412 01:33:48,990 --> 01:33:52,920 Apple is not them. And Apple is a corporation, the corporation 1413 01:33:52,920 --> 01:33:56,220 has a mission, it's set by whoever, often driven by the 1414 01:33:56,220 --> 01:33:59,190 shareholders. And they know they know and I don't take it 1415 01:33:59,190 --> 01:34:01,890 personally. And you know, they're hiring people they're 1416 01:34:01,890 --> 01:34:04,200 going to be doing exclusive shows is obvious. 1417 01:34:04,920 --> 01:34:07,590 And they get asked to do it that way. And their core 1418 01:34:08,190 --> 01:34:11,370 britches and they're going to do you know, payments and stuff. 1419 01:34:11,370 --> 01:34:14,760 I'm sure they have it all all figured out that if they've got, 1420 01:34:15,030 --> 01:34:19,320 if anyone should should be considering a closed system, 1421 01:34:19,320 --> 01:34:22,830 it's apple that I don't think that's had a huge success with 1422 01:34:22,830 --> 01:34:28,410 Apple TV. Although it was interesting, the only I wanted 1423 01:34:28,410 --> 01:34:33,300 to watch trump card the documentary which is Nash 1424 01:34:33,300 --> 01:34:38,580 D'souza it's obviously very pro Trump. Now everyone else is 1425 01:34:38,580 --> 01:34:41,790 stupid, but I got to watch everything so it was only 1426 01:34:41,790 --> 01:34:44,970 available on Apple TV there was not available on Netflix not 1427 01:34:44,970 --> 01:34:51,450 available on on Amazon. That's strange. That's because politics 1428 01:34:51,450 --> 01:34:55,860 man that comes into play but good on the good on Apple for 1429 01:34:55,860 --> 01:34:57,960 having that available. But you know, I don't know if it's been 1430 01:34:57,960 --> 01:35:02,160 such a huge I mean their idea The biggest idea they've had for 1431 01:35:02,160 --> 01:35:06,300 iTunes and and for their music store and their app store has 1432 01:35:06,300 --> 01:35:11,670 been. What is it to Apple one or whatever their 24 hour day radio 1433 01:35:11,670 --> 01:35:13,500 station? But yeah, okay. 1434 01:35:14,130 --> 01:35:19,500 Yeah. All right, you see it with that, you need to have a Apple, 1435 01:35:19,920 --> 01:35:25,890 Apple TV became Apple TV plus news, Apple news became Apple 1436 01:35:25,890 --> 01:35:29,430 news Plus subscription. I mean, it just makes sense that Apple 1437 01:35:29,430 --> 01:35:32,940 podcasts are going to at some point become Apple podcasts plus 1438 01:35:32,970 --> 01:35:36,510 course. Exactly. It's gonna plus you're right, put a plus on, 1439 01:35:36,750 --> 01:35:39,510 they're gonna stick a pay their sticker price on it, and there's 1440 01:35:39,510 --> 01:35:42,120 going to be exclusive shows that you can't get anywhere else. 1441 01:35:42,360 --> 01:35:46,860 Yeah. Because they have to that, that Spotify, Apple and Google 1442 01:35:46,860 --> 01:35:52,350 are locked in a three way battle for X for exclusivity in the 1443 01:35:52,350 --> 01:35:58,230 podcasting space. And they, they just don't, they can care less 1444 01:35:58,260 --> 01:36:05,790 about a podcast namespace that gives that gives Captivate some 1445 01:36:05,790 --> 01:36:09,990 extra tags they can use like that. That's just like an 1446 01:36:09,990 --> 01:36:13,230 annoyance, then why do they why would they even care about that? 1447 01:36:13,290 --> 01:36:15,360 Again, it is important to everybody else, 1448 01:36:15,390 --> 01:36:19,860 we will take our 40% of the market and will grow. Yeah. And 1449 01:36:19,860 --> 01:36:23,220 the talent is out there. The talent is ready, willing and 1450 01:36:23,220 --> 01:36:28,470 able. And the only thing that being being lured with is 1451 01:36:28,470 --> 01:36:33,750 sparkly things. That is a sparkly thing. So we have work 1452 01:36:33,750 --> 01:36:38,760 to do we have a namespace to implement. And there's no that's 1453 01:36:38,760 --> 01:36:41,250 all part of preserving podcasting as a platform for 1454 01:36:41,250 --> 01:36:45,360 free speech. We don't want anything cut off somewhere that 1455 01:36:45,360 --> 01:36:49,830 we don't have control over it. And phase two, I think we're 1456 01:36:49,830 --> 01:36:53,640 gonna have a great time figuring out how to pump volume value 1457 01:36:53,640 --> 01:37:00,030 through this ecosystem, hosting apps, index podcasters. 1458 01:37:00,060 --> 01:37:05,730 listeners. That's a very powerful combination. And I'll 1459 01:37:05,730 --> 01:37:08,340 say it again, you're gonna see people coming back to us in the 1460 01:37:08,340 --> 01:37:12,060 future. Yeah, it's just gonna be it's gonna be a hell of a lot 1461 01:37:12,060 --> 01:37:18,180 more fun. And we smell better over here. Good smell, 1462 01:37:18,630 --> 01:37:20,190 healthcare, the healthcare is not new 1463 01:37:20,190 --> 01:37:22,470 healthcare sucks. But man, do we smell good. 1464 01:37:24,720 --> 01:37:32,310 That one thing that people can do right now, for value is, is 1465 01:37:32,430 --> 01:37:36,510 make contact with other hosting platforms, and make sure that 1466 01:37:36,510 --> 01:37:41,490 they are aware of the of the locking of the transfer lock 1467 01:37:42,030 --> 01:37:45,540 tags, specifically, but the namespace more generally, 1468 01:37:45,840 --> 01:37:49,350 because the the transfer locking thing I think will drive 1469 01:37:49,680 --> 01:37:53,310 adoption a lot. And I think other people need to know about 1470 01:37:53,310 --> 01:37:57,570 that. So if you have connections with Captivate transistor, you 1471 01:37:57,570 --> 01:38:01,950 know, fireside all the other, all the other guys. Just just 1472 01:38:01,950 --> 01:38:04,110 make content and make sure a lot of more I'm sure they already 1473 01:38:04,110 --> 01:38:07,410 know because of James Cridland is like, singing this thing from 1474 01:38:07,410 --> 01:38:08,070 the rooftops. 1475 01:38:08,070 --> 01:38:11,100 And if anybody knows anybody over anchor, let's just make 1476 01:38:11,100 --> 01:38:14,190 sure that anchor Yeah, yeah, hey, man, just implement that. 1477 01:38:14,190 --> 01:38:19,140 Because, you know, it's obvious because of their, their size. 1478 01:38:19,620 --> 01:38:24,330 You know, they're an obvious target to be abused for this. So 1479 01:38:24,360 --> 01:38:26,040 we've made it easy for you. 1480 01:38:27,420 --> 01:38:30,600 Yeah, I like the way that that I like putting it that way. 1481 01:38:30,840 --> 01:38:34,020 Because I think that they don't I don't think that anchor wants 1482 01:38:34,560 --> 01:38:37,710 death. Let me clearly they definitely don't want that. They 1483 01:38:37,710 --> 01:38:40,290 don't want that press. Now people are abusing their 1484 01:38:40,290 --> 01:38:45,750 platform is what has happened. We're helping them out. But 1485 01:38:45,750 --> 01:38:47,640 yeah, so this is a solution to their problem. 1486 01:38:47,759 --> 01:38:50,189 All right. So we'll focus on that. Maybe, maybe James will 1487 01:38:50,189 --> 01:38:54,629 write about it that always seems to help. Yeah, I think that'd be 1488 01:38:54,629 --> 01:38:55,799 great. That'd be great. Yeah. 1489 01:38:55,980 --> 01:39:00,630 And and and also get app to what we need is more. One thing we 1490 01:39:00,630 --> 01:39:03,930 need in the podcast, index dot social is more native app 1491 01:39:03,930 --> 01:39:09,390 developers. So if you have a contact with like, podcast 1492 01:39:09,390 --> 01:39:13,410 addict, I think Tom said he was gonna make contact 1493 01:39:13,470 --> 01:39:18,960 with static was already they've already put the index is a 1494 01:39:18,960 --> 01:39:20,250 search option now I think. 1495 01:39:20,610 --> 01:39:23,490 Yeah. And so did antenna pod, right. Both did yeah. 1496 01:39:23,610 --> 01:39:26,430 That's kind of the the first toe in the water. I like that. 1497 01:39:26,940 --> 01:39:30,690 Yeah. And it's a great way to do it too. Because all you're doing 1498 01:39:30,690 --> 01:39:34,860 is you're saying, Okay, well, if the backup search in case apples 1499 01:39:34,860 --> 01:39:35,970 down, you got this one. 1500 01:39:36,090 --> 01:39:38,370 Yeah. Or if you don't like the results, maybe you'll get 1501 01:39:38,370 --> 01:39:39,480 something different from us. 1502 01:39:39,960 --> 01:39:42,630 Yeah, exactly. You man. You get it in a different order or 1503 01:39:42,630 --> 01:39:43,200 whatever, you know, 1504 01:39:43,320 --> 01:39:46,740 and if you don't like the search results, and you you as your 1505 01:39:46,740 --> 01:39:51,600 app, jump on the server, the mastodon server, tell us what 1506 01:39:51,600 --> 01:39:56,190 you'd like to see we can make better for you. No blind box, 1507 01:39:56,429 --> 01:39:59,849 and the mastodon is like a freaking hive mind, man. It's 1508 01:39:59,849 --> 01:40:02,639 true. ACLs like I said the other day, I'm like, I need some code 1509 01:40:02,639 --> 01:40:05,519 for such and such, because I'm busy if somebody could give me 1510 01:40:05,519 --> 01:40:08,279 like a function, and I like for in like 30 minutes. 1511 01:40:08,550 --> 01:40:11,250 Yeah, that was the timing of the aggregator timing code. I think 1512 01:40:11,250 --> 01:40:14,040 it was. Yeah, I was like, I was like, I know what I want. There 1513 01:40:14,040 --> 01:40:18,420 was a mathematical thing. And oh, my hollow tooth here on 1514 01:40:18,420 --> 01:40:18,720 Tuesday. 1515 01:40:20,250 --> 01:40:25,350 Just like, Yeah, but yeah, we're done. We're done with that. But 1516 01:40:25,350 --> 01:40:29,370 it's a beautiful place. And they just read each other's minds all 1517 01:40:29,370 --> 01:40:29,700 the time. 1518 01:40:30,420 --> 01:40:35,040 To to wrap it up podcast index.org. If you've never heard 1519 01:40:35,040 --> 01:40:38,490 of us, or this is brand new to you. And from there, you'll see 1520 01:40:38,490 --> 01:40:42,630 a little menu you can join as a developer also, if you are just 1521 01:40:42,660 --> 01:40:46,680 interested in contributing to the conversation you and you 1522 01:40:46,680 --> 01:40:50,580 don't have to be a developer, you can be a former VJ can be 1523 01:40:50,760 --> 01:40:54,120 anything. If you're interested in podcasting, moving things 1524 01:40:54,120 --> 01:41:00,720 forward. Podcast, index dot social is a great place to speak 1525 01:41:00,720 --> 01:41:04,020 up and let us know what we can do. And on that note, is there 1526 01:41:04,020 --> 01:41:05,370 anything I can do for you, Dave? 1527 01:41:06,300 --> 01:41:08,130 You can play us oh two. 1528 01:41:09,570 --> 01:41:13,200 I'm like do you need servers? Do you need massages? No ISO to it 1529 01:41:13,200 --> 01:41:13,500 is 1530 01:41:13,530 --> 01:41:14,880 all we do is talk about me. 1531 01:41:17,400 --> 01:41:20,340 Wow, maybe they should stay on Spotify. 1532 01:41:24,960 --> 01:41:26,310 We're I'm good, man. I'm good. 1533 01:41:26,790 --> 01:41:29,100 I'm feeling good. Alright, brother. Hey, have yourself a 1534 01:41:29,100 --> 01:41:32,280 great weekend. Dave. Yeah, you do, man. Well, of course we'll 1535 01:41:32,280 --> 01:41:34,770 see each other on. I'm sure we'll see each other at the 1536 01:41:34,770 --> 01:41:38,100 index over the weekend. Yes, sure, everybody. Take it easy. 1537 01:41:38,100 --> 01:41:38,610 Bye, Dave.