1 00:00:00,570 --> 00:00:05,820 podcasting 2.0 for April 9 2021, Episode 32 oh yeah we got 2 00:00:05,820 --> 00:00:07,170 lightning in a bottle baby 3 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:15,089 Don't worry all become apparent Friday once again it's time for 4 00:00:15,089 --> 00:00:20,309 a board meeting of podcasting 2.0 podcast index.org 5 00:00:21,630 --> 00:00:24,840 it's well past lunchtime for once I'm out of curry here in 6 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:28,470 Austin Texas and didn't have a Bama the SAR of rebalancing 7 00:00:28,470 --> 00:00:30,330 channels Dave Jones, 8 00:00:30,330 --> 00:00:34,620 everybody. That is not me. That is not the year the channel guy. 9 00:00:34,620 --> 00:00:37,350 I couldn't think of anything that fast. I just need to see I 10 00:00:37,350 --> 00:00:39,840 tried to do alliteration I failed horribly on this. 11 00:00:40,860 --> 00:00:42,600 You don't want me rebalancing your candles? 12 00:00:43,380 --> 00:00:46,890 You know that couldn't be a good pickup line now baby Do you need 13 00:00:46,890 --> 00:00:49,620 your challenge channels rebalanced? Because I could come 14 00:00:49,620 --> 00:00:50,790 over and show you how to do that. 15 00:00:51,270 --> 00:00:53,490 Yeah, that's that's I don't think that's gonna get you very 16 00:00:53,490 --> 00:00:55,470 far. I haven't get the drink in the face. 17 00:00:55,500 --> 00:00:59,130 I am. Hi. I'm feeling another jingle coming on though. Yeah, 18 00:00:59,130 --> 00:01:03,180 we companion to our hot hot namespace talk. 19 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:04,590 Channel. 20 00:01:04,710 --> 00:01:09,630 So this is a this is a very special show where we're used to 21 00:01:09,630 --> 00:01:13,560 having guests in the board room. Sometimes they're just assessed 22 00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:16,560 or sometimes they are full fledged board members. We'd like 23 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,800 to have them hanging out usually it's it's via remote connection. 24 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:23,940 But today for the first time. And also for the first time in 25 00:01:23,940 --> 00:01:26,310 the actual studio, which I think is the first time I've had 26 00:01:26,310 --> 00:01:29,970 someone in the studio doing a show for real. We welcome we 27 00:01:29,970 --> 00:01:35,220 welcome the major Domo of the lightning network. Ryan Gentry. 28 00:01:35,730 --> 00:01:36,330 Hey, guys, 29 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:37,680 big fan of your work. 30 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,250 Love Your Work. Big fan. Love Your Work. Big 31 00:01:41,250 --> 00:01:44,280 fan. Love Your Work. Especially I think my favorite was the last 32 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:44,520 one. 33 00:01:45,329 --> 00:01:48,059 That was oh my god, that was really really good. Ryan, it's 34 00:01:48,059 --> 00:01:50,699 so good to have you here, man. Nice to have you at the board 35 00:01:50,699 --> 00:01:51,029 meeting. 36 00:01:51,060 --> 00:01:54,990 Absolutely. I'm really happy to be here. I mean, huge, huge fan 37 00:01:55,050 --> 00:01:57,600 of what you guys are doing with with lightning technology. I 38 00:01:57,600 --> 00:01:59,910 think it's it's, it's fascinating. And I'm really 39 00:01:59,910 --> 00:02:04,920 excited. It's been great kind of jolt of energy, the last six 40 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:06,720 months or so that you guys have been working on this. 41 00:02:08,579 --> 00:02:10,769 And it's kind of it's kind of interesting, because you I don't 42 00:02:10,769 --> 00:02:14,429 know if you know how much but you must. How much of a role 43 00:02:14,429 --> 00:02:18,899 you've played in, in what's been going on with our connection 44 00:02:18,899 --> 00:02:22,979 into lightning. So first, maybe just for people don't know who 45 00:02:22,979 --> 00:02:27,509 you are you work at lightning labs. Did you are you the SVP of 46 00:02:27,509 --> 00:02:28,349 business development 47 00:02:28,380 --> 00:02:31,290 on the just the the business development lead is the title. 48 00:02:31,950 --> 00:02:35,160 We have a lot of leads on Team infrastructure lead 49 00:02:35,370 --> 00:02:39,450 assistant to the regional manager of XP right? To do TPS 50 00:02:39,450 --> 00:02:40,560 reports and shit do 51 00:02:41,820 --> 00:02:43,020 I get to come here instead, 52 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,020 our greatest job was well so that's really what I want to 53 00:02:46,020 --> 00:02:49,740 point out is that you have been wherever I turn as we started 54 00:02:49,740 --> 00:02:54,270 this this adventure, I bumped into you, which is a really good 55 00:02:54,270 --> 00:02:57,510 thing because you are you are really some you know, I say 56 00:02:57,510 --> 00:03:00,210 mode, your dome major dome on me that somehow you are the one 57 00:03:00,210 --> 00:03:02,460 that communicates with everybody, you could not have a 58 00:03:02,460 --> 00:03:07,230 better business development person in this in this place 59 00:03:07,230 --> 00:03:09,630 where we're all at right now. I mean, you're really kicking ass 60 00:03:09,630 --> 00:03:10,980 because you hooked us up with everybody. 61 00:03:11,220 --> 00:03:11,910 That's the job. 62 00:03:12,090 --> 00:03:13,170 I mean, like it's, it's 63 00:03:13,170 --> 00:03:19,080 easy to do, right? Because I'm just when I when I got started 64 00:03:19,110 --> 00:03:23,460 kind of in my Bitcoin adventure, kind of before I really got into 65 00:03:23,460 --> 00:03:26,160 bitcoin, what I was obsessed with and what I studied at my, 66 00:03:26,490 --> 00:03:31,770 in my master's degree was like telecommunications and trying to 67 00:03:31,770 --> 00:03:34,710 find like, what's going to be the next big network? Right? 68 00:03:34,710 --> 00:03:37,560 Like, you know, we had, you know, the, you know, the 69 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:41,130 internet itself, then we had social networks. What's next? 70 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:44,340 What's going to be the next big network, and I have full 71 00:03:44,340 --> 00:03:46,830 conviction, it's going to be the lightning network. And so just 72 00:03:46,830 --> 00:03:50,970 being a part of growing this thing and seeing it get bigger 73 00:03:50,970 --> 00:03:53,370 and bigger seems to get traction, have people find uses 74 00:03:53,370 --> 00:03:56,010 for it like I would, I would do this stuff, even if I wasn't 75 00:03:56,010 --> 00:03:59,040 getting paid. So it's just it's it's fun to be able to connect 76 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,530 people working on things. It's fun to figure out what certain 77 00:04:01,530 --> 00:04:04,410 people are doing what's working, what's not working. Spread the 78 00:04:04,410 --> 00:04:09,330 word. It's a it's a really easy job. I really enjoy it. 79 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:12,450 Yeah, I think I think Dave and I feel the same way except we 80 00:04:12,450 --> 00:04:14,280 actually aren't getting paid, which is kind of 81 00:04:15,330 --> 00:04:16,500 cool, but that's the problem I'm 82 00:04:16,500 --> 00:04:17,400 solving for you. Right 83 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:23,760 if you wanted to know what that feels like. You know, it's 84 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:26,760 funny, like there's three there's three there's there's 85 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:31,260 sort of three people that always like jazz me up about Bitcoin 86 00:04:31,260 --> 00:04:36,300 and lightning stuff. And they're like, you're like, like the 87 00:04:36,300 --> 00:04:39,840 first base coach, you know, just five years getting fired up. 88 00:04:39,870 --> 00:04:44,460 It's It's you, Paulie toy, and jack Mahler's it's like I can 89 00:04:44,460 --> 00:04:48,420 listen to any one of you guys. And just get the fire back under 90 00:04:48,420 --> 00:04:50,580 me if I've all sudden, you know, it's like, everything's 91 00:04:50,580 --> 00:04:52,530 dwindling. I'm like, Oh, god, this is annoying. 92 00:04:52,650 --> 00:04:55,350 That's high praise, man. That's that that's rarefied air and 93 00:04:55,350 --> 00:04:57,390 breathing. I really appreciate that. No, 94 00:04:57,390 --> 00:04:59,670 I'm serious. Yeah, yeah, you three guys just know how to 95 00:04:59,670 --> 00:05:00,840 bring Just bring the fire. 96 00:05:01,020 --> 00:05:03,930 So what's really important for people listening to this is to 97 00:05:03,930 --> 00:05:08,520 know how you brought in some really good pieces together. So 98 00:05:09,690 --> 00:05:12,240 nine months ago, and I think that was when Dave and I had 99 00:05:12,270 --> 00:05:15,300 this idea, and we started to implement it. And then somewhere 100 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,600 last week of August, we did this first show, we start getting the 101 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:23,160 index going. And in the end, our mind was always a namespace, and 102 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:24,990 there's going to be a value block. And then we're going to 103 00:05:24,990 --> 00:05:28,710 do streaming payments through through key sand on the 104 00:05:28,710 --> 00:05:31,710 lightning network was what you've now seen at the curry 105 00:05:31,710 --> 00:05:35,280 cash recipe recipe Blitz sitting there, that's what I learned how 106 00:05:35,280 --> 00:05:41,040 to do everything on. And so it was, so I sent a like, an email 107 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:44,340 to info at Sphinx dot chat, which Paul picked up and he 108 00:05:44,340 --> 00:05:47,460 replied, and so we got connected. And that starts to go 109 00:05:47,460 --> 00:05:54,330 very fast. And then did Paul put me in contact with you? It must 110 00:05:54,330 --> 00:05:55,980 have been that way. Unless you're on their board, right? I 111 00:05:55,980 --> 00:05:56,430 think Yeah, 112 00:05:56,430 --> 00:05:58,740 I'm on the board. But um, you know, on the board, you should 113 00:05:58,740 --> 00:05:59,700 be I mean, yeah. 114 00:06:01,350 --> 00:06:02,280 We all want to be on your 115 00:06:03,990 --> 00:06:10,890 stock gives a shit we SATs, baby. Okay, so and then you hook 116 00:06:10,890 --> 00:06:14,730 me up with a number of people, including Roy, from from breeze 117 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:18,390 Absolutely. Does that connection. I just want everyone 118 00:06:18,390 --> 00:06:22,230 to understand that was huge, because here we are. Really no 119 00:06:22,230 --> 00:06:25,140 more than five months after after that connection. And we 120 00:06:25,140 --> 00:06:29,880 have another app released, you know, App Store, as you know, 121 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:34,590 iOS, Android, working. Yep, working front and back all the 122 00:06:34,590 --> 00:06:35,190 way through. 123 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:41,100 I mean, and again, my part of that was very small, and not 124 00:06:41,100 --> 00:06:44,760 really all that hard. It's really easy. When you have a 125 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:47,730 great team like breeze and great entrepreneur, like Roy, did, you 126 00:06:47,730 --> 00:06:51,180 know, I can give him like, Hey, I think this is interesting. You 127 00:06:51,180 --> 00:06:54,750 should talk to this guy. And he can just go do his due diligence 128 00:06:54,750 --> 00:06:58,800 horn for you. He can do his diligence, and then just run 129 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:02,100 with it. Another live and it's working. And it's beautiful. I 130 00:07:02,100 --> 00:07:04,620 knew that they would just do a great job with it and knock it 131 00:07:04,620 --> 00:07:07,290 out of the park. And I'm thrilled to see that it's really 132 00:07:07,290 --> 00:07:07,890 working for him. 133 00:07:08,130 --> 00:07:10,560 Yeah, well, it's not just working for him. That's right. I 134 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,620 mean, how many how many podcasts we have using the value block? 135 00:07:13,620 --> 00:07:16,530 Dave? Now? What are we? What's the conversion ratio? 136 00:07:17,910 --> 00:07:19,440 71. 137 00:07:19,470 --> 00:07:20,280 Wow, really? 138 00:07:20,310 --> 00:07:22,830 Yeah. Yeah, that's this is going fast. 139 00:07:22,860 --> 00:07:24,270 Oh, I didn't realize it was that many. 140 00:07:24,689 --> 00:07:27,119 And it's been it's it's been really it's been such an 141 00:07:27,119 --> 00:07:30,869 interesting ride to see this meld between, you know, wallet 142 00:07:30,869 --> 00:07:35,339 developers and podcast developers. Because it's so 143 00:07:35,339 --> 00:07:38,909 separate. And they, you know, I appreciate Roy so much, who 144 00:07:39,209 --> 00:07:42,059 contacted me after lunch said, Boy, I really apologize. I know 145 00:07:42,059 --> 00:07:45,029 nothing about podcasting is I apologize, man, I didn't set you 146 00:07:45,029 --> 00:07:49,919 up for it. I should have warned you, but a lot of stuff. So what 147 00:07:49,919 --> 00:07:51,839 is the where do you Where do you think the growth is going to 148 00:07:51,839 --> 00:07:54,629 come from besides just more podcasters? Do you think that 149 00:07:54,629 --> 00:07:58,679 more wallet developers will see an opportunity here? 150 00:07:58,830 --> 00:07:59,730 It's a really good question. 151 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,980 I mean, I certainly think that there's tons of room to run. 152 00:08:05,790 --> 00:08:09,930 With podcasters I definitely think ball developers being able 153 00:08:09,930 --> 00:08:12,960 to just get, you know, being able to skim, you know, being 154 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:15,690 able to skim just a little bit off the top of financial 155 00:08:15,690 --> 00:08:18,390 transactions is like, you know, one of the oldest businesses in 156 00:08:18,390 --> 00:08:18,810 the book, 157 00:08:18,960 --> 00:08:22,020 right? What the businesses it gives you Exactly, yeah, it is 158 00:08:22,020 --> 00:08:22,620 the business 159 00:08:22,620 --> 00:08:25,320 of business. And so if you can get to where you're, you're 160 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:27,780 sitting right on top of the money, right, you're right on 161 00:08:27,780 --> 00:08:30,810 top of the value flow, you own the user, and you're, you know, 162 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:34,950 part of the connection to them and the value of that thing for 163 00:08:35,310 --> 00:08:38,370 very easy to be able to start skimming, just a few few stats 164 00:08:38,370 --> 00:08:40,560 in your pockets, every every every transaction, right? 165 00:08:40,830 --> 00:08:43,110 I think that that's when you say skim, I mean, openly and 166 00:08:43,110 --> 00:08:43,680 transparent. 167 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,409 Absolutely, yeah. Not not nefarious at all, just that you 168 00:08:46,409 --> 00:08:48,389 know, you're providing value, like, yeah, you deserve to be 169 00:08:48,389 --> 00:08:50,759 paid a little bit for all the hard work you're doing. So I 170 00:08:50,759 --> 00:08:51,509 think it makes it makes 171 00:08:51,990 --> 00:08:52,860 a and all those guys. 172 00:08:52,860 --> 00:08:55,020 Yeah, absolutely. And then and then yes. And then it flows to 173 00:08:55,020 --> 00:08:58,590 the ecosystem, right? I think the guy not everybody's gonna 174 00:08:58,590 --> 00:09:02,550 want to run a node. You know, we, there's this constant 175 00:09:02,550 --> 00:09:05,520 tension. And on the lightning labs side, which is, you know, 176 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,850 we are both building the protocol was the protocol needs 177 00:09:08,850 --> 00:09:11,400 to be trustless and needs to be decentralized needs to be built 178 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,310 for the sovereign individual, like it's very important for the 179 00:09:14,310 --> 00:09:16,890 protocol to be able to spread to, you know, billions of 180 00:09:16,890 --> 00:09:18,150 devices all over the planet 181 00:09:18,149 --> 00:09:20,369 that it is totally neutral while you're doing the corporate 182 00:09:20,369 --> 00:09:23,309 pitch. I'd like to understand a little bit more about the 183 00:09:23,309 --> 00:09:27,419 history because I really, honestly don't know. JACK Dorsey 184 00:09:27,419 --> 00:09:33,449 has a huge good token with me for what he's done. But I 185 00:09:33,449 --> 00:09:36,989 believe that he had foresight and said, Okay, this, this 186 00:09:36,989 --> 00:09:39,809 company needs to be there and whether he created it funded I 187 00:09:39,809 --> 00:09:41,969 don't really know what their connection is there. I'd like to 188 00:09:41,969 --> 00:09:45,269 know that. I just like to know where it came from. Because if 189 00:09:45,299 --> 00:09:48,599 anyone's a detractor of what we're doing, and these people 190 00:09:48,599 --> 00:09:52,709 like nor no matter what, like, well, you're who's really okay, 191 00:09:52,739 --> 00:09:57,149 I can see the protocol. No, but tell me about lightning itself 192 00:09:57,149 --> 00:09:59,969 with lightning labs came from end to end the whole Genesis. 193 00:09:59,999 --> 00:10:01,499 Because that's a little fuzzy to me. 194 00:10:01,529 --> 00:10:04,679 That's a great question. And honestly, I'm probably not going 195 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:06,899 to do it justice because I joined, you know, relatively 196 00:10:06,899 --> 00:10:10,289 late, but this goes all the way back to, you know, 2000, 197 00:10:10,319 --> 00:10:14,519 probably 13 2014. Right. And really, it goes all the way back 198 00:10:14,519 --> 00:10:19,829 to, you know, like how Finney on Bitcoin talk forums in the early 199 00:10:19,829 --> 00:10:22,769 early early days, you know, it's very obvious to anybody with any 200 00:10:22,769 --> 00:10:25,139 sort of networking experience that the Bitcoin network is not 201 00:10:25,139 --> 00:10:29,369 going to scale, right? You got one block every 10 minutes, that 202 00:10:29,369 --> 00:10:32,489 block can only be one megabyte, right? That's 13 kilobits per 203 00:10:32,489 --> 00:10:37,559 second of throughput. That's, you know, four times, or 25% of 204 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:42,389 the old AOL, dial up modems right? At 4k, right? It's not 205 00:10:42,389 --> 00:10:44,879 very good, right? We're gonna need another way. 206 00:10:44,909 --> 00:10:48,149 We live that life Ryan Gentry, who do you think you are young 207 00:10:48,149 --> 00:10:48,659 man? 208 00:10:49,230 --> 00:10:51,960 So people for a very long time and the Bitcoin community people 209 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:55,320 much smarter, and much, much more talented than me? We're 210 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:57,810 trying to figure out what's the right way to scale this network? 211 00:10:57,810 --> 00:11:00,150 Right? How can we get it to where billions of people can use 212 00:11:00,150 --> 00:11:03,600 this on a daily basis while maintaining its property? So 213 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,690 there's tons of great research that went into it, a lot of 214 00:11:06,690 --> 00:11:09,030 really great ideas, a lot of people that kind of pioneered 215 00:11:09,030 --> 00:11:13,950 the idea of, you know, using payment channels to like Balaji 216 00:11:13,950 --> 00:11:19,050 Srinivasan his company 20 one.co, I think earned calm 217 00:11:19,050 --> 00:11:19,950 is what it turned into 218 00:11:20,580 --> 00:11:22,410 a one one ml 219 00:11:23,429 --> 00:11:24,689 21. co was was 220 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:26,070 Oh, yes, yeah. 221 00:11:26,130 --> 00:11:29,820 So it was like, you know, you would get paid in these little, 222 00:11:30,030 --> 00:11:33,960 you know, micro transactions for doing work, which is, you know, 223 00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:36,390 not dissimilar to what we're seeing from routing node, but it 224 00:11:36,390 --> 00:11:39,870 was with like a little Bitcoin miner in the device. And that 225 00:11:39,870 --> 00:11:42,210 just didn't work, right. So they had to pivot and sell to 226 00:11:42,210 --> 00:11:44,010 Coinbase. And all this sort of stuff. But like people were 227 00:11:44,010 --> 00:11:47,280 thinking about these ideas very early on, but it wasn't until 228 00:11:48,180 --> 00:11:51,420 the lightning network white paper got written, which by a 229 00:11:51,990 --> 00:11:57,420 guy named Joseph Poon, and a guy named Tad Raja attaches at MIT, 230 00:11:57,690 --> 00:12:01,500 the digital currency currency Institute. Just doing I think, 231 00:12:01,500 --> 00:12:04,920 is on a beach in Thailand somewhere with these old crypto 232 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:05,280 guys 233 00:12:05,279 --> 00:12:07,259 like, like the old 234 00:12:08,100 --> 00:12:11,610 not Joseph was, was kind of a younger guy. I don't know him 235 00:12:11,610 --> 00:12:15,690 very well. tadge is a researcher. He's He's older than 236 00:12:15,690 --> 00:12:20,220 me, but it's really talented researcher at MIT. So they 237 00:12:20,220 --> 00:12:22,500 released a white paper Elizabeth Stark, but lightning labs co 238 00:12:22,500 --> 00:12:22,980 founder, 239 00:12:23,550 --> 00:12:24,810 which you come from, because she 240 00:12:24,809 --> 00:12:27,719 she edited the wipe, she was a part of developing the white 241 00:12:27,719 --> 00:12:28,799 paper and publishing it. 242 00:12:29,130 --> 00:12:31,890 We'd love to have more women down in the trenches with us on 243 00:12:31,890 --> 00:12:32,790 the developer side. 244 00:12:32,999 --> 00:12:36,749 She's a, you know, a warrior. She's in the trenches fighting 245 00:12:36,749 --> 00:12:38,999 and slugging this out. She needs to send some, 246 00:12:39,390 --> 00:12:43,230 some lieutenants and stuff down our soldiers here. Yeah, 247 00:12:43,470 --> 00:12:46,740 that's one thing I've brought up with Adam before is that the 248 00:12:46,740 --> 00:12:50,160 lightning labs, and just the lightning labs staff, if you go 249 00:12:50,160 --> 00:12:52,380 to your about page, or whatever it is, it's like, 250 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:53,910 commercial baby. 251 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:59,070 Yeah, this is basically the most diverse group of people I've 252 00:12:59,070 --> 00:13:02,580 ever seen. I mean, it's, it's amazing. You know, we talked 253 00:13:02,580 --> 00:13:05,970 about that early on, Adam was like, you know, podcasting 254 00:13:05,970 --> 00:13:08,310 doesn't have a diversity problem. We have lightning a 255 00:13:08,310 --> 00:13:10,740 Bitcoin doesn't have a diversity problem. And just look around. I 256 00:13:10,740 --> 00:13:12,750 mean, everybody's already doing it. Yep. 257 00:13:12,870 --> 00:13:15,480 I will. I will. That's that's 100% of that great. Well, I 258 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,060 don't know about 100. vast amount of that credit goes to 259 00:13:18,060 --> 00:13:21,240 Elizabeth. And I'm sure she'll be thrilled to hear that it was 260 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,600 noticed. Yeah. And so so just noticed, admired 261 00:13:24,750 --> 00:13:27,180 by rational. Absolutely. Yeah. 262 00:13:27,269 --> 00:13:30,059 So when I say we'd like some developers, you know, we'd love 263 00:13:30,059 --> 00:13:33,179 to see more female developers just for the energy to man 264 00:13:33,179 --> 00:13:34,739 different insight, then be really good 265 00:13:35,460 --> 00:13:36,390 at preaching to the choir. 266 00:13:37,289 --> 00:13:40,139 We have lots of female testers, by the way, this is a this is a 267 00:13:40,139 --> 00:13:40,979 very good thing 268 00:13:41,009 --> 00:13:44,039 that is very, very good sexually. Yeah. Yeah. So the 269 00:13:44,039 --> 00:13:48,029 white paper got released, people were very excited about it. And 270 00:13:48,029 --> 00:13:52,529 you know, Elizabeth, and Lalu, just by our CTO is goes by roast 271 00:13:52,529 --> 00:13:55,559 beef. That is Oh, that's right. Yeah. 272 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:56,969 Oh, connection. 273 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:02,040 Yeah, gotcha. Oh, interesting. So they teamed up and said, You 274 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:04,500 know, like, the only way that this network is really going to 275 00:14:04,500 --> 00:14:09,180 get built, is if we raise the money and go and build it. So 276 00:14:09,210 --> 00:14:09,840 you know, I think, 277 00:14:11,460 --> 00:14:15,240 um, they had no prior company experience, 278 00:14:15,269 --> 00:14:17,969 Elizabeth is, you know, was a former professor of law, 279 00:14:18,569 --> 00:14:25,019 corporate law, in particular, at Stanford, and Yale, although at 280 00:14:25,019 --> 00:14:31,709 the time was, like, 21, maybe, I think just coming out of a 281 00:14:31,709 --> 00:14:34,259 master's degree at UC Santa Barbara. Hmm. I mean, 282 00:14:34,590 --> 00:14:37,170 so they went together and they raised the money together, they 283 00:14:37,170 --> 00:14:43,470 raised the raises. Um, David Sachs, I think was involved in 284 00:14:43,470 --> 00:14:46,680 the seed and maybe jack Dorsey was in the seed as well. I don't 285 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:49,440 know this is all public information. She can factor the 286 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:53,160 fact. But you know, I do you know, you said I think multiple 287 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:56,100 times that the jack is like, you know, the mastermind behind all 288 00:14:56,100 --> 00:14:56,430 of it. 289 00:14:57,179 --> 00:14:59,819 I'm wrong here to prove me wrong. factcheck false. 290 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:02,880 He's I mean, he was he is a seed investor. And he's an investor 291 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:05,910 in lightning labs for sure. But this is very much, you know, 292 00:15:07,170 --> 00:15:09,990 kind of Bitcoin community coming up with the protocol idea, 293 00:15:10,770 --> 00:15:13,290 Elizabeth and all the running with it, raising the money and 294 00:15:13,290 --> 00:15:15,750 then going out and building it. There you go. 295 00:15:15,990 --> 00:15:18,780 Thank you for correcting us on that. Now. That's good. That's 296 00:15:18,780 --> 00:15:19,260 good to know. 297 00:15:19,259 --> 00:15:21,209 Okay, well, then they went, it was really them. 298 00:15:22,890 --> 00:15:25,620 Well, Holy moly, it hasn't have a whole new perception of 299 00:15:25,620 --> 00:15:27,930 everything. I'm glad we straighten that out. And so 300 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:29,400 you know, and then it took, like, you know, the thing 301 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:32,670 that's, that's tough about Bitcoin is, you know, a large 302 00:15:32,670 --> 00:15:35,220 part of the value prop of Bitcoin, the value prop of 303 00:15:35,220 --> 00:15:37,890 Bitcoin is that the rules don't change, right? There's 21 304 00:15:37,890 --> 00:15:41,940 million coins blocks every 10 minutes. Everybody's dealing 305 00:15:41,940 --> 00:15:45,030 with the same rules, you know, they may not be fair or 306 00:15:45,030 --> 00:15:46,680 anything, but it's quality opportunity, 307 00:15:46,679 --> 00:15:50,429 right? Interesting that a copyright lawyer, co authored 308 00:15:50,429 --> 00:15:53,159 the white paper of the lightning network. That's very 309 00:15:53,159 --> 00:15:53,519 interesting. 310 00:15:53,519 --> 00:15:55,949 It's pretty interesting in that she brings like a really unique 311 00:15:55,949 --> 00:15:57,929 perspective to just about everything, because 312 00:15:57,929 --> 00:16:00,479 this is the thing that people don't understand. This is where 313 00:16:00,479 --> 00:16:05,009 podcasters fall down. This is where I think our developers and 314 00:16:05,009 --> 00:16:07,619 it's not because, you know, they're just they're not speed 315 00:16:07,619 --> 00:16:10,889 that they've been focused on other things, you know, once you 316 00:16:11,129 --> 00:16:14,609 I mean, for me, it was right off the bat understanding that in a 317 00:16:14,699 --> 00:16:19,979 in a decentralized network, where you want to pick when you 318 00:16:19,979 --> 00:16:22,859 want to get paid, you have to send an invoice already. That by 319 00:16:22,859 --> 00:16:26,909 itself is counterintuitive to Venmo. Which of course, what 320 00:16:26,909 --> 00:16:31,499 jack Mahler's went to solve, I think very successfully, no. So 321 00:16:31,499 --> 00:16:35,939 that once you get past that, then the idea of channels and 322 00:16:35,939 --> 00:16:39,779 liquidity is, I mean, it took me months. 323 00:16:39,779 --> 00:16:40,889 Yeah, to really, 324 00:16:40,980 --> 00:16:43,890 I mean, I saw it, I knew what had to be done, but didn't get 325 00:16:43,890 --> 00:16:48,270 it until, okay, now it's final fall into place. And that, and 326 00:16:48,270 --> 00:16:53,040 what I always say to people is freedom takes effort. Yeah, I 327 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:54,240 have no other hands. Oh, 328 00:16:54,239 --> 00:16:56,699 and also the other part of it that is really hard for people 329 00:16:56,699 --> 00:16:59,609 to understand is, is a lot of people come and look at this 330 00:16:59,609 --> 00:17:02,789 technology from the top down, right saying like, I want this 331 00:17:02,789 --> 00:17:05,519 thing to work, like the thing I'm used to in the past, like 332 00:17:05,519 --> 00:17:08,699 Venmo, right. But the way this technology was built from the 333 00:17:08,699 --> 00:17:11,159 bottom up, right, this is working within the constraints 334 00:17:11,159 --> 00:17:14,069 of the Bitcoin protocol. And like, you know, everybody wishes 335 00:17:14,069 --> 00:17:16,469 the Bitcoin protocol had like different knobs and widgets and 336 00:17:16,469 --> 00:17:18,659 things that we could twist. But you know, like, this is the 337 00:17:18,659 --> 00:17:21,209 thing that belongs to everybody is what it is, and it you just 338 00:17:21,209 --> 00:17:23,879 have to you have to build from the ground up. We're building 339 00:17:23,879 --> 00:17:26,219 like brand, a brand new system, right? This is like, you know, 340 00:17:26,339 --> 00:17:28,709 the telecom people in the 80s were probably like, well, I wish 341 00:17:28,709 --> 00:17:31,109 the internet could do this. Because TCP IP is shitty, and 342 00:17:31,109 --> 00:17:31,769 bla bla bla bla 343 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:33,900 Novell network is the way to go. It's like well, 344 00:17:34,050 --> 00:17:36,690 but no, like, we just we got to work within these constraints. 345 00:17:36,690 --> 00:17:38,370 And I'm sorry, it's gonna take a little bit longer. And it's 346 00:17:38,370 --> 00:17:40,410 gonna be counterintuitive, but like the kids, the people that 347 00:17:40,410 --> 00:17:42,390 are really going to get this and are going to run with it right 348 00:17:42,390 --> 00:17:43,710 there in like seventh grade right now. 349 00:17:44,370 --> 00:17:47,550 Well, let me ask you about, about something along those 350 00:17:47,550 --> 00:17:50,160 lines. Just kind of like misunderstanding. Fundamental. 351 00:17:50,310 --> 00:17:53,640 Like I saw somebody on the mastodon posted today. I think 352 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:58,260 it was Christopher I seen posted a Twitter thread where Eric wall 353 00:17:58,260 --> 00:18:02,580 had a bed with you. Okay. Can you just explain? I was 354 00:18:02,729 --> 00:18:05,039 I missed this. One. Can't wait to hear it. 355 00:18:05,070 --> 00:18:11,160 Yeah. So the one who who posts the guy who posted it was like, 356 00:18:11,370 --> 00:18:15,210 clearly like a lightning hater. And Erik Erikson, 357 00:18:15,390 --> 00:18:17,460 I wouldn't say he's a lightning hater, Eric, no, not 358 00:18:17,460 --> 00:18:21,000 him. The guy that posted the screenshots. Okay. And I was 359 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,880 trying to figure out like, of trying to follow along with this 360 00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:27,390 thread. And it seemed like, it was just different versions of 361 00:18:27,390 --> 00:18:30,360 the same argument. I've heard about lightning, which 362 00:18:30,390 --> 00:18:33,870 basically, to me, seems to always boil down to a 363 00:18:33,870 --> 00:18:35,670 misunderstanding of liquidity. 364 00:18:35,790 --> 00:18:42,840 Yes, I think you're exactly right. So for background, in, I 365 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:48,090 think, mid summer of last year. before I'd started lightning 366 00:18:48,090 --> 00:18:51,030 labs, probably I would not have engaged in this public activity. 367 00:18:51,030 --> 00:18:55,800 If I was already employed by lightning labs when I did it. He 368 00:18:55,860 --> 00:18:58,980 was running, he was running against Bitcoin in a big way. 369 00:18:59,580 --> 00:19:02,820 You know, there was like tons of people talking about how eath 370 00:19:02,820 --> 00:19:05,370 layer twos were right around the corner, and they were gonna blow 371 00:19:05,370 --> 00:19:07,290 the lightning network out of the water, blah, blah, blah, blah, 372 00:19:07,290 --> 00:19:10,770 blah. And I was just, you know, wanting to call Eric in 373 00:19:10,770 --> 00:19:14,100 particular. And Eric's Eric's a nice guy, like, we're friends. 374 00:19:14,130 --> 00:19:15,390 What does he do? I don't know. He's, 375 00:19:15,390 --> 00:19:18,870 uh, he used to work for the human rights foundation. And now 376 00:19:18,870 --> 00:19:21,630 he works for a fund. I think he's either in Sweden and 377 00:19:21,630 --> 00:19:24,540 Norway's Scandinavian. So he worked for fund up there that, 378 00:19:24,870 --> 00:19:27,690 you know, it's kind of a weird kind of European conglomerate 379 00:19:27,690 --> 00:19:30,030 where they do invest in a lot of lightning stuff. So like, he's 380 00:19:30,030 --> 00:19:33,030 very familiar with the tech. He's not a hater. But he is also 381 00:19:33,030 --> 00:19:37,170 kind of like, intellectually more curious about the etherium 382 00:19:37,830 --> 00:19:38,850 ecosystem. Right? Well, 383 00:19:38,850 --> 00:19:44,580 that that is kind of, yeah, it's it's, it's Aggies versus long. 384 00:19:45,300 --> 00:19:47,430 I made this I made this comparison on the Marty bent 385 00:19:47,430 --> 00:19:47,850 podcast. 386 00:19:48,420 --> 00:19:50,520 Oh, yeah, that's right. Yeah, that's probably why I picked it 387 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:52,260 up. Yeah, that's totally what it is. Yeah, 388 00:19:52,290 --> 00:19:55,290 it's very true. I mean, you know, yeah. Auburn versus 389 00:19:55,290 --> 00:19:57,660 Alabama. Yeah, it's the same story over and over, 390 00:19:57,690 --> 00:20:00,360 except, you know, we all know Longhorns better. Totally 391 00:20:00,390 --> 00:20:01,710 doesn't matter what your site is. 392 00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:07,740 But so, so I challenged I was like, you know, I won. I don't 393 00:20:07,740 --> 00:20:10,050 think that aetherium is going to continue running against Bitcoin 394 00:20:10,050 --> 00:20:11,580 like, it's this is just a momentary Blip. 395 00:20:11,580 --> 00:20:14,520 I'm sorry, take it back aetherium is not equatable to 396 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:18,450 Bitcoin ever, ever 1,000% not impossible, I just want to make 397 00:20:18,450 --> 00:20:20,280 sure people know what my Maxi status 398 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:23,640 on your credit that was that 399 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:25,860 was a point of personal privilege. Sorry, you don't 400 00:20:25,860 --> 00:20:28,560 need, you don't need to turn in your card. I'm glad you said 401 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:33,810 that. Yeah. Test. Yeah. Gotcha. No, but the so you know, I just 402 00:20:33,810 --> 00:20:38,820 I wanted to be, you know, kind of short, etc. And I wanted to 403 00:20:38,820 --> 00:20:41,400 short the expectations of these new layer twos, or we're gonna 404 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,760 launch because as you see, like, this is really hard technology. 405 00:20:44,970 --> 00:20:47,340 Like, it's not it's not that the lightning developers like don't 406 00:20:47,340 --> 00:20:49,950 know what they're doing. It's that this is really hard, right? 407 00:20:49,950 --> 00:20:54,360 protocol development is. It's, it's like an academic exercise, 408 00:20:54,360 --> 00:20:57,000 right? You got to think of all the ways in which this can fail. 409 00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,210 And not only like, people using it wrong, but like, you know, 410 00:21:00,420 --> 00:21:03,630 what happens if this bit gets flipped, because, you know, the 411 00:21:03,630 --> 00:21:06,690 network connection is spotty, or like, you know, gamma radiation 412 00:21:06,690 --> 00:21:09,600 comes down and hits the, you know, server and the wrong way 413 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:10,530 or something like that, or 414 00:21:10,530 --> 00:21:13,920 a bunch of Yahoo's come along and start doing 15,000 415 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:16,890 transactions a month into channels not prepared. 416 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:19,530 Exactly right. Right. Y'all had that in your initial plan, 417 00:21:19,530 --> 00:21:20,970 right. 100% 418 00:21:20,999 --> 00:21:24,569 fight douchebags from podcasting to follow up or fill up our 419 00:21:24,569 --> 00:21:25,109 channels, 420 00:21:25,140 --> 00:21:26,610 that's literally a unit test. 421 00:21:26,610 --> 00:21:30,210 And so there were just all these inflated expectations. So I bet 422 00:21:30,210 --> 00:21:35,100 Eric, or I said, You know, I bet by you know, March of next year, 423 00:21:35,910 --> 00:21:39,390 the kind of total value locked in these eath layer twos will 424 00:21:39,390 --> 00:21:43,920 not be more than, you know, 10x, that of the lightning network. 425 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,820 And I won't be clear, and I tweeted, cause as Katie 426 00:21:47,820 --> 00:21:50,220 said that, say it again, I want to understand the bet. 427 00:21:50,310 --> 00:21:53,850 So the thief layer twos, right, total public capacity of 428 00:21:53,850 --> 00:21:56,010 lightning network right now is like $60 million. And at the 429 00:21:56,010 --> 00:21:58,680 time, it was something like 10 million or something like that. 430 00:21:59,850 --> 00:22:03,990 And so saying that that the total value in public network 431 00:22:03,990 --> 00:22:07,680 capacity of the eath layer twos was not going to be more than 432 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:08,820 10x. What was enlightening, 433 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:10,230 what is the eighth layer two? 434 00:22:10,770 --> 00:22:14,280 There's a bunch of there are we shouldn't dignify them with 435 00:22:14,310 --> 00:22:14,970 honor. 436 00:22:18,360 --> 00:22:19,140 You they weren't. 437 00:22:19,290 --> 00:22:20,760 You weren't for lightning labs. 438 00:22:21,750 --> 00:22:23,070 But they're they're very, like, 439 00:22:23,100 --> 00:22:24,840 like the freenas cowboy anymore. 440 00:22:25,410 --> 00:22:28,740 Like, you know, I won the I won the bat, which I'm happy with 441 00:22:28,740 --> 00:22:30,930 clearly right? I was right. Yeah. So I made I made 1000 442 00:22:30,930 --> 00:22:33,540 bucks off of him. And he paid me over lightning, which was, which 443 00:22:33,540 --> 00:22:35,430 is good. And we can get around to the difficulties with that. 444 00:22:36,120 --> 00:22:38,610 That's what I wanted to talk about was the difficult because 445 00:22:38,610 --> 00:22:40,860 that seemed to be the whole circus was the How do you get 446 00:22:40,860 --> 00:22:45,000 paid and they felt a little, it felt a little plate up to me. It 447 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:45,960 was it was, 448 00:22:46,470 --> 00:22:48,660 but like i but before we get into that, I want to make the 449 00:22:48,660 --> 00:22:52,260 point that like, this is very much a bet that was just like 450 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,110 shorting over inflated expectations of these people who 451 00:22:55,110 --> 00:22:58,260 were overly exuberant, totally locked to the of the lightning 452 00:22:58,260 --> 00:23:01,770 network is like a meaningless metric. It's it's it doesn't 453 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:03,900 it's not important. It's not indicative of everything. 454 00:23:03,900 --> 00:23:07,350 Because as you guys well know, right? Private channels are all 455 00:23:07,350 --> 00:23:10,020 over the place. Tons of people have private channels, and that 456 00:23:10,050 --> 00:23:12,360 that capacity doesn't show up. Correct, 457 00:23:12,390 --> 00:23:15,030 right? It's like, it's like GDP, it did anything. 458 00:23:17,430 --> 00:23:21,480 Damn. Dave actually has quite a financial exposure, because I 459 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:25,830 know he knows what he's talking about. It's very good one, Dave. 460 00:23:26,460 --> 00:23:27,720 Got me on that. So. 461 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,550 So like, it's, it's not important. And the most 462 00:23:32,550 --> 00:23:35,220 important reason why is like, the whole point of lightning, as 463 00:23:35,220 --> 00:23:38,580 you guys know, is recycling capital. Like, you want to keep 464 00:23:38,580 --> 00:23:41,220 the capital and channels and you want to get to send it back and 465 00:23:41,220 --> 00:23:43,560 forth as much as possible, you want like as high velocity as 466 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,920 possible. So you can make those fees, right. So you don't want 467 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,290 to put a bunch of capital onto the network that's not doing 468 00:23:49,290 --> 00:23:51,840 anything, right. That's the exact opposite. You want to put 469 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:54,420 all of these coins in the places where they're being used all the 470 00:23:54,420 --> 00:23:57,030 time. So capital efficiency is like really the driving goal 471 00:23:57,030 --> 00:24:00,390 here. And capital efficiency is like, exactly opposite towards a 472 00:24:00,390 --> 00:24:05,010 lock. So like, just to be clear. listeners, if anybody comes up 473 00:24:05,010 --> 00:24:07,560 to you and says, oh, the total value locked to lightning, like 474 00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,560 hasn't grown. Like, you can just point at them and know like, 475 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,170 that person doesn't know what private channels and all that 476 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:17,040 I know of at least $50,000 in private channels just meaning 477 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:18,150 just from mucking around. 478 00:24:19,350 --> 00:24:22,050 It's everywhere, right? So it's just it's a stupid metric. And 479 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,020 it was kind of a stupid bet. But no, one of them made 1000 bucks. 480 00:24:25,020 --> 00:24:29,070 So like when it was so to bring, so back to Dave's question. Yes. 481 00:24:29,070 --> 00:24:32,430 Is what was actually the argument. So the argument was, 482 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:38,700 you know, Eric lost the bet. And in kind of a very Eric way of 483 00:24:38,700 --> 00:24:43,920 settling that he decided to, you know, find all of the SATs that 484 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:48,540 he had in lightening wallets on, you know, old phones that hadn't 485 00:24:48,540 --> 00:24:52,560 been touched or synced in like a year on old unsupported wallets, 486 00:24:53,250 --> 00:24:57,360 and tried to send me those sets, right. So these are nodes that 487 00:24:57,360 --> 00:25:00,270 hadn't been synced to the graph and run a year and a half You 488 00:25:00,270 --> 00:25:03,120 know like there they were old channels are like literally the 489 00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:06,390 Eclair wallet is like no longer like really supported I think 490 00:25:06,390 --> 00:25:10,140 that you go over to the Phoenix wallet yeah and like the Bitcoin 491 00:25:10,140 --> 00:25:13,830 lightning wallet like Dino Anton has moved on to a new project 492 00:25:13,830 --> 00:25:15,870 and like hasn't supported so it was like the first two that he 493 00:25:15,870 --> 00:25:18,480 started with. So he's like tweeting about how solving all 494 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:19,530 these problems like well 495 00:25:19,590 --> 00:25:21,210 Yeah, dude like of course you're having 496 00:25:21,210 --> 00:25:23,700 problems like you haven't used these in two years and like this 497 00:25:23,700 --> 00:25:26,730 is cutting edge technology it's move it's moved very quickly. 498 00:25:27,030 --> 00:25:28,050 Like Of course of course it's 499 00:25:28,500 --> 00:25:31,920 not pixel to add in my bed bed table drawer. 500 00:25:33,870 --> 00:25:37,410 Dave understands this type of support to understand these 501 00:25:37,410 --> 00:25:39,090 issues, though it's like yeah, 502 00:25:39,090 --> 00:25:42,990 it's more like I got my PlayStation two out and I VR 503 00:25:42,990 --> 00:25:46,830 game isn't worth what the hell right that man so you know like 504 00:25:46,830 --> 00:25:50,400 I think so he had all he tweeted out all these problems and was 505 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:51,810 very you know theatrical. 506 00:25:53,190 --> 00:25:56,010 You jumped in action as a good corporate man right on where 507 00:25:56,009 --> 00:25:59,759 to go and so but what I think what's important though, is 508 00:25:59,789 --> 00:26:03,569 eventually we did get all the funds over to a new breeze 509 00:26:03,569 --> 00:26:09,509 lightning wallet and he was able to send me in one shot $1,000 510 00:26:09,539 --> 00:26:12,269 Wow on the lightning network from a noncustodial breeze node 511 00:26:12,329 --> 00:26:13,589 realized personal routing 512 00:26:14,910 --> 00:26:16,230 well and what was the fee? 513 00:26:16,709 --> 00:26:18,059 I mean, it was I actually 514 00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:21,150 I can I could look it up. Let's see I'm and by the way while 515 00:26:21,210 --> 00:26:24,810 Ryan is looking at up all of you listening to us on pod station 516 00:26:24,810 --> 00:26:30,300 swings or breeze, crank up those value sliders give us max best 517 00:26:30,300 --> 00:26:35,940 SATs per minute boost a little bit willya. It cheapskates. Hey, 518 00:26:35,940 --> 00:26:38,880 David. I was telling Ryan I had lunch earlier with him but we 519 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:43,260 didn't talk about anything really was quite difficult. So 520 00:26:43,290 --> 00:26:46,290 here's what I've noticed is I've been looking at the canoe, I 521 00:26:46,290 --> 00:26:50,370 have my own node and the index node I've been looking at. So 522 00:26:50,550 --> 00:26:55,920 when it comes to per minute, satoshis I guesstimate because I 523 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,590 don't have any I mean, I have the data, but I only have 524 00:26:58,590 --> 00:27:02,940 portions of it. I guesstimate that on breeze, most people are 525 00:27:02,940 --> 00:27:06,420 averaging 50 SATs permit somewhere between 50 SATs or 100 526 00:27:06,420 --> 00:27:11,490 SATs on minute streaming. But the boosts are permanent. But 527 00:27:11,490 --> 00:27:15,240 the boosts are very low, not a lot of boost coming from breeze. 528 00:27:15,750 --> 00:27:20,580 Now, on the other hand, on Sphinx, we pretty much only see 529 00:27:20,580 --> 00:27:23,580 the standard five sets per minute, which is the default, 530 00:27:23,610 --> 00:27:28,740 which is hidden away in preferences. contrarily The 531 00:27:28,740 --> 00:27:34,020 boosts outweigh almost the breeze payments because people 532 00:27:34,020 --> 00:27:37,980 can interact and show boost to each other. And you know, like 533 00:27:38,010 --> 00:27:41,370 oh, here's my numerology boost, or here's my big baller boost or 534 00:27:41,370 --> 00:27:44,340 any of that and so that, that gamifies that part of the 535 00:27:44,340 --> 00:27:49,500 process inside the tribe. So, if somehow we could get Spinks to 536 00:27:49,500 --> 00:27:53,040 put the value slider on the outside and get breeze to figure 537 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:57,480 out how to show all users including the Sphinx users what 538 00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:58,530 boosts are coming 539 00:27:59,489 --> 00:28:01,799 that the psychology of this so 540 00:28:02,489 --> 00:28:05,309 that's what it that's the value for value we learned that 541 00:28:05,309 --> 00:28:08,969 numerology is such a big deal and i think it's it's almost a 542 00:28:08,969 --> 00:28:13,199 problem I'm breeds that you can't it's it's a you know, step 543 00:28:13,199 --> 00:28:17,099 by step you can enter your own custom amount it's around a 544 00:28:17,099 --> 00:28:20,189 number Yeah, which is an interface choice but therefore 545 00:28:20,189 --> 00:28:22,709 people don't use it because you can't send your little code you 546 00:28:22,709 --> 00:28:27,329 know go here 6969 I've learned all this in 14 years I just want 547 00:28:27,329 --> 00:28:31,199 to say that it's it's phenomenal to see these types of things 548 00:28:31,199 --> 00:28:34,409 with it never been able to research in podcasting before 549 00:28:34,439 --> 00:28:37,439 listener behavior we have. We have download behavior of 550 00:28:37,439 --> 00:28:41,939 phones. That's it. Phones we don't know shit about listeners, 551 00:28:41,999 --> 00:28:43,949 you're advertising to phones people 552 00:28:44,910 --> 00:28:47,670 well that I'll start I mean that started with no agenda way way a 553 00:28:47,670 --> 00:28:50,460 long time ago. Y'all playing 14 years ago? Yeah, yeah, they're 554 00:28:50,460 --> 00:28:53,730 trying to see like, because you when y'all opened up donations 555 00:28:53,730 --> 00:28:57,690 and opened up the value for value payment, then you had 556 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,950 immediately people starting to send you numerology and custom 557 00:29:01,950 --> 00:29:05,250 things and that became their their way of expressing 558 00:29:05,250 --> 00:29:07,680 themselves with you know, financially it's like sending a 559 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,620 message what I realized there's so much power in that 560 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:16,650 what I realized after watching Max and Stacy talk about it that 561 00:29:16,830 --> 00:29:23,970 we've a lot because of the open nature and Justin was Nikki Oh 562 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:29,250 rezvani rezvani we had lunch with him he coined the term play 563 00:29:29,250 --> 00:29:36,480 wall so good play wall like I play wall calm already taken by 564 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:44,700 the way. So play wall, and the minute you enable that, and this 565 00:29:44,700 --> 00:29:49,530 it's hard to meet there has been no no price discovery and 566 00:29:49,530 --> 00:29:54,360 creative content since Apple unbundled the album and made 567 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,260 tracks 99 cents an app. It's the same thing by the way. You put 568 00:29:58,260 --> 00:30:01,350 together at song track you put together An app just as much 569 00:30:01,350 --> 00:30:04,500 love passion work goes into it. And it can be lots of videos, 570 00:30:04,530 --> 00:30:07,920 you understand the parameters. But that was not price discovery 571 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,910 that was price fixing. And it's hurt, it's hurt, the music 572 00:30:11,910 --> 00:30:17,700 business has been destroyed. And it's it's created a mindset of 573 00:30:18,330 --> 00:30:22,140 which I think is not accepted, by the way by, by this 574 00:30:22,140 --> 00:30:25,470 generation. Yeah, you know, and hopefully you see that the same 575 00:30:25,470 --> 00:30:27,900 way I do is like, this is not this is not a price discovery, 576 00:30:27,900 --> 00:30:31,500 this is a fucking rip off, and you take How much? So the minute 577 00:30:31,500 --> 00:30:34,890 you say, by the way, this value for value thing is how much you 578 00:30:34,890 --> 00:30:40,950 think it's worth. It's 10x if not 100x. It's, it's just scary, 579 00:30:41,010 --> 00:30:43,170 because we're not educated that way. 580 00:30:43,919 --> 00:30:47,729 And now the now they're just trying to now like the the 581 00:30:47,759 --> 00:30:50,399 players that within podcasting, the big players like Spotify, 582 00:30:50,609 --> 00:30:53,369 now, they're just exploring just different versions at the same 583 00:30:53,369 --> 00:30:58,949 price locking mechanism, but as before 99 or 299-490-9799. Like 584 00:30:58,949 --> 00:31:02,609 that, that stuff, it's still it just plants, it's just a rehash 585 00:31:02,609 --> 00:31:07,529 of the same of the same thing of divorcing the the sense of 586 00:31:07,529 --> 00:31:12,329 value, the subjective value of the listener, from the actual 587 00:31:12,329 --> 00:31:15,749 core content, what they think is worth, they literally can't pay 588 00:31:15,749 --> 00:31:20,759 you more, they literally can they're prohibited from paying 589 00:31:20,759 --> 00:31:23,669 you more money, you know, they just dropped a check in the 590 00:31:23,669 --> 00:31:27,899 mail, literally, you know, it's like that whole idea of bringing 591 00:31:27,929 --> 00:31:32,429 the value for anything that brings the price brings the 592 00:31:32,429 --> 00:31:36,419 value in line with the price in the subjective mind of the of 593 00:31:36,419 --> 00:31:40,859 the consumer. I mean, there's nothing that I know that nothing 594 00:31:40,859 --> 00:31:42,239 else does, then no 595 00:31:42,750 --> 00:31:44,880 value is projected. That's like the number one question I get 596 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:48,240 from, from especially finance bros about Bitcoin is like, 597 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,660 well, but what's the what's the intrinsic value of a Bitcoin? 598 00:31:51,660 --> 00:31:53,730 It's like, well, I reject the premise of the question all 599 00:31:53,730 --> 00:31:54,570 value subjective. 600 00:31:55,770 --> 00:31:59,580 What else? By the way, that question is very invaluable as 601 00:31:59,610 --> 00:32:04,890 zero value to me that question just go away. But who are these? 602 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,110 Who are these these bros who talk about? You know, 603 00:32:07,380 --> 00:32:11,820 I was in a fraternity. My world is filled with beauty. Yeah. 604 00:32:12,209 --> 00:32:14,279 What fraternity Delta Tau Delta, same 605 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:18,810 as Matthew McConaughey and Governor Abbott. They're both 606 00:32:18,810 --> 00:32:24,180 Delta UT. Okay, fun story about Matthew McConaughey is we had 607 00:32:24,180 --> 00:32:27,420 the same house mother like the living lady who 608 00:32:27,450 --> 00:32:28,230 lived Ra. 609 00:32:29,070 --> 00:32:31,350 Like Like he had to have like a live in house mother, like 610 00:32:31,350 --> 00:32:33,840 insurance purposes. Fire Department, all that sort of 611 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:34,140 stuff. How 612 00:32:34,140 --> 00:32:36,510 misogynistic eternity. 613 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:40,830 So apparently, Matthew McConaughey his freshman year 614 00:32:40,830 --> 00:32:44,700 he's from, you know, Longview, right? East Texas. Apparently 615 00:32:44,700 --> 00:32:48,270 his freshman year he the whole first semester while he was 616 00:32:48,270 --> 00:32:51,420 pledging pledging. He convinced the entire fraternity and all 617 00:32:51,420 --> 00:32:53,850 the all of his friends that he was from Australia. And it was a 618 00:32:53,850 --> 00:32:55,950 foreign exchange student spoke on the show you 619 00:32:56,310 --> 00:32:56,970 could do that. I 620 00:32:56,970 --> 00:32:59,910 bet he could do that. And then he came back in the spring. It 621 00:32:59,910 --> 00:33:02,010 was like, from long view. 622 00:33:05,460 --> 00:33:07,950 He seems like a nice guy. I've never had brain count. I never 623 00:33:07,950 --> 00:33:08,910 have either. Yeah. Um, 624 00:33:09,330 --> 00:33:13,410 so what was the go ahead? No, go ahead. I was just like, what was 625 00:33:13,410 --> 00:33:14,970 the fee? What was the theory? Oh, yeah. 626 00:33:15,450 --> 00:33:17,580 Zap doesn't pull up the fee. Unfortunately. Sorry. Yeah, that 627 00:33:17,580 --> 00:33:20,850 was I will I'll look it up. When I get back to like the actual, 628 00:33:21,630 --> 00:33:23,460 the, the command line. 629 00:33:23,730 --> 00:33:26,910 I mean, I bet it was, you know, 50 pips or something like that. 630 00:33:26,910 --> 00:33:30,300 And it went from Brees wallet to your voltage node, 631 00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:35,010 not to my voltage node to my I run too many notes. This was my 632 00:33:35,010 --> 00:33:37,320 routing node. Mine's the one with like, all the inbound 633 00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:39,750 because like, you know, this payment had to succeed. Right? 634 00:33:39,750 --> 00:33:40,680 So I know, 635 00:33:41,700 --> 00:33:44,340 oh, this isn't true. Now, do you have this? Like, is it like a 636 00:33:44,340 --> 00:33:46,350 work thing? You have a huge routing node? 637 00:33:47,790 --> 00:33:52,230 I mean, it's more of a work thing. It's more just like, I 638 00:33:52,230 --> 00:33:54,150 mean, it kind of is a work thing. Because I want to get 639 00:33:54,150 --> 00:33:55,020 experience just 640 00:33:55,020 --> 00:33:57,690 like Ron just like me, you're using your own node to fix it. 641 00:33:57,719 --> 00:34:00,659 Yes, fix it and learn how it all works. Rather than upgrades and 642 00:34:00,659 --> 00:34:02,579 feeling you know, the pain points that everybody else's 643 00:34:02,579 --> 00:34:05,639 Yeah, like, right. But this is like, you know, like, a 644 00:34:05,639 --> 00:34:07,889 significant amount of money on it. So that 645 00:34:07,890 --> 00:34:13,560 kind of begs the question. What is the lightning labs goal? What 646 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:14,610 is their mission in life? 647 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:16,380 Wondering that going to the next billion people, 648 00:34:16,410 --> 00:34:19,740 okay, and how do they expect to make a living doing that? 649 00:34:20,009 --> 00:34:23,789 So are right now like are the products that we offer, right is 650 00:34:23,819 --> 00:34:27,509 liquidity services. So as you will know, channel management 651 00:34:27,539 --> 00:34:31,229 and liquidity management is just a bear. It's, it's hard. It's 652 00:34:31,229 --> 00:34:35,909 really tough. So we've been kind of laser focused on that for the 653 00:34:35,909 --> 00:34:38,399 last couple years with first dilute product and second the 654 00:34:38,399 --> 00:34:42,149 pool product. But it's really important to like put an 655 00:34:42,149 --> 00:34:46,679 asterisk on that and say that the only way that those like 656 00:34:46,709 --> 00:34:50,129 this was a purposeful decision from from Lalo and from 657 00:34:50,129 --> 00:34:53,819 Elizabeth to pick this business model, because the only way we 658 00:34:53,819 --> 00:34:58,139 make money by managing liquidity for nodes is if there's billions 659 00:34:58,139 --> 00:35:00,839 of nodes out there. So like orange centers have directly 660 00:35:00,839 --> 00:35:03,089 aligned with growing the networks and growing the network 661 00:35:03,089 --> 00:35:06,719 has to happen first. And then we will backfill the growth of the 662 00:35:06,989 --> 00:35:09,539 network with these problems that we expect that all the node 663 00:35:09,539 --> 00:35:12,149 operators are going to have. And largely that's played out. I 664 00:35:12,149 --> 00:35:16,199 think, like the one way that the one way that it may be, has kind 665 00:35:16,199 --> 00:35:18,509 of shifted a little bit that hasn't aligned with our 666 00:35:18,509 --> 00:35:21,059 expectations is there's been a lot like problems have been so 667 00:35:21,059 --> 00:35:25,049 bad that a lot of people have gone more with the custodial 668 00:35:25,049 --> 00:35:28,589 node vision. And if you're been running a custodial node, you 669 00:35:28,589 --> 00:35:31,109 don't really need to use blue pool, you just like throw more 670 00:35:31,109 --> 00:35:33,359 money at the problem. And that's okay. 671 00:35:33,990 --> 00:35:37,140 We kind of broke that open them because we're kind of we're kind 672 00:35:37,140 --> 00:35:41,070 of depended upon, upon fully noted or at least case end 673 00:35:41,070 --> 00:35:43,380 enabled was almost the same thing. 674 00:35:43,410 --> 00:35:46,740 Yep. And so so that's fantastic. Right, you're welcome. Which is 675 00:35:46,740 --> 00:35:49,110 a thank you. That's one of the reasons why we're so excited 676 00:35:49,110 --> 00:35:52,020 about this. Because like, in our in our vision, we tricked 677 00:35:52,019 --> 00:35:55,259 one have a look at the fucking vj he thinks this key says. 678 00:35:59,340 --> 00:36:02,190 But so you know, like it's it's it's again, it's like you said 679 00:36:02,190 --> 00:36:04,710 it's the only business model, right? Like, we think that 680 00:36:04,710 --> 00:36:07,740 there's eventually going to be billions of dollars a day, you 681 00:36:07,740 --> 00:36:10,710 know, which you know, in our terms is billions of SATs per 682 00:36:10,710 --> 00:36:14,040 day. transacted on the lightning network, and we just want to 683 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:19,050 get, you know, 50 pips or 25 pips of all that traffic. And we 684 00:36:19,050 --> 00:36:21,720 think the best way to do that is to provide these really easy to 685 00:36:21,720 --> 00:36:26,130 use API's from engineer liquidity. And I think there 686 00:36:26,130 --> 00:36:28,530 will be more that comes down the road. So you mean like, 687 00:36:28,710 --> 00:36:32,850 like pool? That's like an exam? Okay. You and I know this, 688 00:36:32,850 --> 00:36:35,730 because we've talked about this. So it's not really easy yet. You 689 00:36:35,730 --> 00:36:38,940 know, the thing? Yeah, I mean, it's just not easy. Yeah. And I 690 00:36:38,940 --> 00:36:42,840 would love to be able to, what I would love to be able to do is 691 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:46,080 when someone fires up a node, you know, because they're a 692 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,900 podcast, or typically they want to receive that we're receiving 693 00:36:48,900 --> 00:36:53,160 quite a bit. And then they have, you know, they have people they 694 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,560 want to share with the new multiple nodes. And like a 695 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,050 podcast, we're set up at a hosting company, and I'm just 696 00:36:58,050 --> 00:37:03,570 saying podcasters as a, as a bookmark for musician. Yeah, 697 00:37:03,570 --> 00:37:08,190 author, I mean, it's all come down. Is, is exactly that point 698 00:37:08,190 --> 00:37:12,510 is I, it should be known, like, here's my costs. For the node, 699 00:37:12,510 --> 00:37:15,870 it's, you know, which is simple to kind of figure out, but then 700 00:37:15,870 --> 00:37:19,530 the, the actual, not just the liquidity, but the quality of 701 00:37:19,530 --> 00:37:24,480 liquidity is going to be very, very key for so many reasons 702 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:26,820 that I'm not just discovering, as we start to see real, you 703 00:37:26,820 --> 00:37:31,440 know, we have real flow, Ryan. Oh, yeah, we're gonna be 40,000 704 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:33,990 transactions this month that we're seeing is crazy. 705 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,080 I hear you. Yeah. And this is I mean, we are trusting we are 706 00:37:37,470 --> 00:37:42,930 keenly, keenly aware of this. And it is, I think, the general, 707 00:37:43,170 --> 00:37:46,080 lightning labs Mo, like, have you if you've been around using 708 00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:52,530 loop, like a full year and a half ago? Like, we like to ship 709 00:37:52,590 --> 00:37:55,890 very early, get these products into people's hands when they're 710 00:37:55,890 --> 00:38:00,030 still ugly, and can like iterate with the market? Right, which is 711 00:38:00,030 --> 00:38:04,710 why think so many people run lmd versus the protocols is because, 712 00:38:04,710 --> 00:38:07,860 you know, we really respond to the market and build in 713 00:38:07,860 --> 00:38:09,930 accordance with our users and with our customers. 714 00:38:09,930 --> 00:38:12,900 Right. Well, thank you. Because I think that the virtual nodes 715 00:38:12,900 --> 00:38:15,390 has come out of some of the demand that was created through 716 00:38:15,390 --> 00:38:17,730 podcasting, it swings. That came Yes. 717 00:38:18,660 --> 00:38:21,510 And so that's, it's, you know, it's it's something that it's, 718 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:24,390 it's kind of uncomfortable in the moment, knowing that you've 719 00:38:24,390 --> 00:38:27,570 put something out that you know, is a little janky and doesn't 720 00:38:27,570 --> 00:38:29,850 really solve all your customers problems. 721 00:38:30,570 --> 00:38:32,070 What does that what does that sound like? 722 00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:40,620 Yeah, that's, we share that same philosophy. We share things that 723 00:38:40,620 --> 00:38:44,520 are that are ugly, as ugly as sin, and then we fix them later 724 00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:48,570 and panic mode. And so and so it's panic shipping. 725 00:38:51,090 --> 00:38:52,440 Episode, title damage, 726 00:38:53,099 --> 00:38:56,549 panic. So, you know, like, we launched, we launched the pool 727 00:38:56,549 --> 00:39:01,229 marketplace for channels in, in November, right. So it's coming 728 00:39:01,229 --> 00:39:05,849 up on on four months out, we launched like the UI for it, I 729 00:39:05,849 --> 00:39:09,419 think just in either December, or and I think it was in 730 00:39:09,419 --> 00:39:12,929 January. So that's only been a couple months, like we're 731 00:39:12,929 --> 00:39:17,009 iterating on it and got to like a lot of ideas on how to improve 732 00:39:17,009 --> 00:39:18,989 it. We're getting a lot of really good feedback from people 733 00:39:18,989 --> 00:39:22,709 on what works and what doesn't. And I think the goal though, of 734 00:39:22,709 --> 00:39:27,329 course, like the division for this, is, you know how with 735 00:39:27,329 --> 00:39:31,349 breeze, right, if you're looking to receive money, and you don't 736 00:39:31,349 --> 00:39:34,079 have enough inbound liquidity, if you don't, you can't receive 737 00:39:34,079 --> 00:39:37,469 enough and they will just on the fly open a channel to you. Like 738 00:39:37,469 --> 00:39:41,429 the goal is that there are 1000 nodes like breeze, right, and 739 00:39:41,429 --> 00:39:44,099 they're all they all have the same capabilities, they all are, 740 00:39:44,099 --> 00:39:48,779 like, roughly equivalent in terms of, you know, they're the 741 00:39:48,779 --> 00:39:52,889 services they can provide. We're able to kind of score them and 742 00:39:52,889 --> 00:39:55,439 make sure that you know, their incentives are aligned to try 743 00:39:55,439 --> 00:39:58,979 and reset the ways that the boss score is basis. So that you 744 00:39:58,979 --> 00:40:02,129 know, you can you can That, you know, they have some skin in the 745 00:40:02,129 --> 00:40:05,219 game regarding either this score or maybe down the road like they 746 00:40:05,219 --> 00:40:07,919 actually have to like lock up some some Bitcoin and put it a 747 00:40:07,919 --> 00:40:09,869 risk in case they go offline, I find 748 00:40:09,870 --> 00:40:13,860 it disappointing or from our perspective that that is based 749 00:40:14,100 --> 00:40:18,480 with it appears based on a big factor amount of liquidity. 750 00:40:18,510 --> 00:40:22,650 Yeah. Whereas we're dealing in such micro payments that but we 751 00:40:22,860 --> 00:40:28,050 are doing, we are doing a lot of activity, yet don't qualify for 752 00:40:28,050 --> 00:40:32,310 the boss score for certain other types of financial incentives 753 00:40:32,310 --> 00:40:36,510 that we could participate in and make use of well, so it's 754 00:40:36,510 --> 00:40:37,890 racist, quite frankly, 755 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,730 also, one of the things I really like a mini mini ball score 756 00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:42,480 well, so I think 757 00:40:42,510 --> 00:40:45,060 like, again, this is one of those things that's going to be 758 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,450 continually evolving, for sure. And it's something we're working 759 00:40:48,450 --> 00:40:52,080 on because it's such an integral point. However, one of the 760 00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,540 things I think is really interesting is kind of the next 761 00:40:54,540 --> 00:40:58,710 addition to, to pool is the concept of sidecar channels. So 762 00:40:58,710 --> 00:41:00,390 right now, sidecar channel 763 00:41:00,450 --> 00:41:04,980 doesn't sound sexy does. So, right, sexy sidecar talk. 764 00:41:05,820 --> 00:41:09,780 So right now, pool is just, you know, buyer to seller, I want to 765 00:41:09,900 --> 00:41:13,110 buy a channel I'm a podcaster. Right? I'm receiving like all 766 00:41:13,110 --> 00:41:15,300 sorts of flow I'm getting tons of people are listening, and I 767 00:41:15,300 --> 00:41:18,210 need to like increase my inbound liquidity. I want to buy a 768 00:41:18,210 --> 00:41:22,440 channel from somebody. Right now. I have to buy direct from 769 00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:26,430 the source. I and I have to like run pool myself. I have to have 770 00:41:26,430 --> 00:41:29,940 a pool account. I have to find all that sort of stuff. Right? 771 00:41:29,940 --> 00:41:30,390 It's it's 772 00:41:30,420 --> 00:41:32,100 You got it? Man blind, right? There's 773 00:41:32,579 --> 00:41:36,869 that part? UI for it now. Oh, and Graham, 774 00:41:36,870 --> 00:41:38,190 where's my UI? Yeah. 775 00:41:39,390 --> 00:41:44,160 So this this next concept is is Sarkar channels is allowing it 776 00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:49,350 to where voltage could manage pool for you, yeah, Graham and 777 00:41:49,350 --> 00:41:52,320 say, Hey, Graham, buy me a channel, right? I'll pay you 778 00:41:52,350 --> 00:41:55,950 SATs over lightning. And you buy me a channel from somebody? And 779 00:41:56,040 --> 00:42:00,060 so philosophical question, do you think that this should be 780 00:42:00,060 --> 00:42:03,720 abstracted to a layer that no one ever really knows what 781 00:42:03,720 --> 00:42:05,970 channel means? Or do you think that for the overall 782 00:42:05,970 --> 00:42:08,820 understanding of freedom and forward movement of life as an 783 00:42:08,820 --> 00:42:12,810 active participant in the new global financial system? It is 784 00:42:12,900 --> 00:42:16,200 an I asked us for a specific reason, it is important to 785 00:42:16,350 --> 00:42:19,260 understand how this works. And do you think that's important to 786 00:42:19,260 --> 00:42:24,000 expose that to users? Because the biggest pushback I get is, 787 00:42:24,030 --> 00:42:28,320 you know, it's my mom can't do it. Which to which I say you 788 00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:32,670 know, what's wrong with your mom? learning disability? 789 00:42:33,720 --> 00:42:35,370 Because it's very rude to moms, by the way, 790 00:42:36,210 --> 00:42:37,500 think better of your mom. So smart 791 00:42:37,500 --> 00:42:42,540 lady. But on the other hand, I also don't want to create a 792 00:42:42,540 --> 00:42:49,260 world of people who think that a browser is the internet or that 793 00:42:49,260 --> 00:42:52,830 Google is the internet or DuckDuckGo. Hey, I got privacy 794 00:42:52,830 --> 00:42:56,370 on the internet. And this is I think it's important, but I 795 00:42:56,370 --> 00:42:58,590 don't know what what the philosophy is, I don't even know 796 00:42:58,590 --> 00:42:59,850 if it is the right answer to it. 797 00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:02,370 I don't really know if there's a right answer either. Because I 798 00:43:02,370 --> 00:43:07,980 think on the one hand, I very much sympathize with you on 799 00:43:08,010 --> 00:43:10,440 wanting everybody to be an expert and understanding the 800 00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:13,440 nuts and bolts and like being a truly self sovereign citizen, 801 00:43:13,470 --> 00:43:17,130 right. Like, I agree with you, my core, my core, of course, I 802 00:43:17,130 --> 00:43:21,090 want that to happen. But on the other side, we like we have tons 803 00:43:21,090 --> 00:43:24,150 of lessons throughout the history of technology that like 804 00:43:24,150 --> 00:43:27,420 that attitude, just, that's the attitude that got nobody to use 805 00:43:27,420 --> 00:43:30,330 PGP. Right. But you know, what, got a bunch of people to use end 806 00:43:30,330 --> 00:43:34,140 to end encryption, the signal, because signal is really easy to 807 00:43:34,140 --> 00:43:37,620 use. Right. And and I think that there's a really delicate 808 00:43:37,620 --> 00:43:42,540 balancing act there. And there's a problem with trying to 809 00:43:42,540 --> 00:43:46,950 prematurely optimize for UX. And like sacrificing some of these 810 00:43:46,950 --> 00:43:49,710 core properties. It's really more of a timing issue as the 811 00:43:49,710 --> 00:43:52,140 technology develops. Okay, whoa, whoa, 812 00:43:52,169 --> 00:43:55,589 100% agree with that, because we like, that's one of the things 813 00:43:55,589 --> 00:43:58,979 that we that we are struggling with right now. You know, we 814 00:43:58,979 --> 00:44:01,889 have podcast wallet, Comm. And we're to get bring people on 815 00:44:01,889 --> 00:44:05,099 board. And there's this, there's this threshold, where you get 816 00:44:05,099 --> 00:44:08,189 your, you try to get things more and more simple, more and more 817 00:44:08,189 --> 00:44:11,939 simple. But then you hit a realism. Yeah, where it's like, 818 00:44:12,119 --> 00:44:18,869 okay, we, we can spend a monumental amount of effort to 819 00:44:18,869 --> 00:44:24,779 get an extra 5% ease of use here. But once you get that, 820 00:44:24,809 --> 00:44:27,959 then what you what your end, what you end up with, is that 821 00:44:27,959 --> 00:44:31,889 you've you've on boarded a user who doesn't understand what 822 00:44:31,889 --> 00:44:36,959 they've just done. Yep. And then opens up a new set of support 823 00:44:36,959 --> 00:44:37,769 problems, which is 824 00:44:37,770 --> 00:44:41,220 unbelievably complicated. Those secondaries when they do weird 825 00:44:41,220 --> 00:44:42,450 shit. Oh, my God. 826 00:44:43,199 --> 00:44:45,629 I mean, it's as much like Dave, you're exactly right. It's as 827 00:44:45,629 --> 00:44:49,229 much about self protection, as it is the ideology. Yeah, right. 828 00:44:49,230 --> 00:44:52,200 Yeah. We have people that are putting you go into podcaster 829 00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:57,330 wallet, and we ask for your podcast Feed URL and the email 830 00:44:57,330 --> 00:45:00,150 address that's listed as the owner inside and out. On a 831 00:45:00,150 --> 00:45:03,150 daily, you know, on a regular basis, I see people putting in 832 00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:09,540 an email address, and banker. And yes, exactly anchor.fm or 833 00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:14,460 podcast index.org they really had no idea what they're doing. 834 00:45:14,460 --> 00:45:14,670 Yeah, 835 00:45:14,699 --> 00:45:17,519 but they've, as we've, we've pulled together now almost one, 836 00:45:17,669 --> 00:45:20,669 you know, 2 million podcasts in the index, what have we found 837 00:45:20,669 --> 00:45:22,319 people put in the damn feeds. 838 00:45:22,829 --> 00:45:26,339 Every bit, everything comes out. As you can imagine four, or 839 00:45:26,339 --> 00:45:27,419 12,000 840 00:45:27,690 --> 00:45:32,370 replicas of the same feed, or one feed with 12,000 episodes, 841 00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:36,690 people do weird stuff, or in PDF is a 24 megabyte PDF instead of 842 00:45:36,690 --> 00:45:37,260 an image 843 00:45:38,940 --> 00:45:40,260 or a Photoshop file. 844 00:45:41,730 --> 00:45:45,030 That's killing any Oh, it's so it's, it's just killing someone 845 00:45:45,030 --> 00:45:47,250 on the bandwidth. And it's just crazy. So I know. So 846 00:45:47,249 --> 00:45:50,039 there's, there's really, there's really difficult balancing act 847 00:45:50,129 --> 00:45:53,039 with that. And I think it's also important, like you look at, 848 00:45:54,119 --> 00:45:57,089 again, like I like, we go back to what I was saying, I don't 849 00:45:57,089 --> 00:45:59,969 know, 30 minutes ago, or something like the lightning 850 00:45:59,969 --> 00:46:02,189 network was born out of the constraints of the Bitcoin 851 00:46:02,189 --> 00:46:05,849 protocol, right? Click on protocol is like, largely fixed. 852 00:46:06,119 --> 00:46:08,759 But there are still tweaks that we can make to it. And so like, 853 00:46:08,759 --> 00:46:11,189 you know, we don't have to get into details here. But like, you 854 00:46:11,189 --> 00:46:15,389 know, there's a big change coming home. Right. So that 855 00:46:15,389 --> 00:46:17,969 enables, like, a bunch of makes lightning way better, and makes 856 00:46:17,969 --> 00:46:19,649 lightning way more private, and makes lightning way more 857 00:46:19,649 --> 00:46:22,559 scalable, but allows for like, really cool, more programmable 858 00:46:22,559 --> 00:46:23,429 things to be done. Is 859 00:46:23,430 --> 00:46:26,040 that going to be nice? I only know, you know, I've heard a 860 00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:29,550 little bit about it. The adoption, is there a time when 861 00:46:29,550 --> 00:46:32,070 we're going to do phase one tests, if everyone likes it, 862 00:46:32,070 --> 00:46:34,020 then adopted? I'm not quite familiar with how this 863 00:46:34,170 --> 00:46:38,310 process works. There is not a process, okay, one of the 864 00:46:38,310 --> 00:46:42,300 reasons why it takes so long, but it's also you know, sure. 865 00:46:43,140 --> 00:46:46,140 But so like, you know, one of the one of the problems with 866 00:46:47,070 --> 00:46:50,610 with wanting to like abstract, all of this difficulty away from 867 00:46:50,610 --> 00:46:54,420 user and stuff is like, one, there's not really like a ton of 868 00:46:54,420 --> 00:46:57,210 people clamoring for this technology right now, like, 869 00:46:57,240 --> 00:46:59,430 like, like in the in the billions, right? Where we need 870 00:46:59,430 --> 00:47:02,070 to make this so simple that your grandma can use it to like we 871 00:47:02,070 --> 00:47:05,790 have time where we can still try and focus on making it safe and 872 00:47:05,790 --> 00:47:07,800 decentralized and educating people on all this sort of 873 00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:11,280 stuff, but also tos the Bitcoin protocol and like, therefore, 874 00:47:11,310 --> 00:47:14,850 lightning itself is going to change. And we are going to 875 00:47:14,850 --> 00:47:16,680 like, we don't want to prematurely optimize for 876 00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:20,610 lightning today, because we may miss that, you know, in a couple 877 00:47:20,610 --> 00:47:23,070 years, all of a sudden, lightning will get really much 878 00:47:23,070 --> 00:47:26,070 easier. And maybe you can be totally safe, and not run your 879 00:47:26,070 --> 00:47:30,690 own node. Right? And like no, like, if you're curious, the 880 00:47:30,690 --> 00:47:33,030 thing to look into would be concept called channel 881 00:47:33,030 --> 00:47:39,000 factories, which is where you know, 10 nodes are sharing a 882 00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:44,370 single UT EXO, and are making channels within channels, and 883 00:47:44,370 --> 00:47:46,860 stuff like that. And so like that was actually that's where 884 00:47:46,860 --> 00:47:47,910 Kim Jong Hoon drop 885 00:47:47,909 --> 00:47:49,469 drops the year the EMP. 886 00:47:51,210 --> 00:47:56,700 So that was actually I think, I don't want to misquote this, but 887 00:47:56,700 --> 00:47:59,220 I know that like Lalu helped roast beef helped with with that 888 00:47:59,220 --> 00:48:01,830 paper that was like, Oh, wait, like, wait, you guys already 889 00:48:01,830 --> 00:48:03,420 launched lightning network like you should have built it this 890 00:48:03,420 --> 00:48:07,620 way instead. And so that's you know, when that happens, like it 891 00:48:07,620 --> 00:48:10,980 could be two years from now, it could be 10 years from now, like 892 00:48:10,980 --> 00:48:16,080 when that happens, I think that really helps improve the UX of 893 00:48:16,170 --> 00:48:19,680 the lightning network and like a really big way. But it's just, 894 00:48:19,710 --> 00:48:24,030 it's gonna take time that you know that that's the one thing I 895 00:48:24,030 --> 00:48:27,390 was thinking about earlier, is when it comes to like channel 896 00:48:27,390 --> 00:48:29,370 management and that kind of thing. Some people may be 897 00:48:29,580 --> 00:48:32,250 listening to this, especially podcasters may be listening to 898 00:48:32,250 --> 00:48:36,360 this listening to you talk about buying a channel and you're in 899 00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,630 loop and pool and all these things and being in there. Your 900 00:48:39,630 --> 00:48:41,520 first thought is filming. Oh, my gosh, I 901 00:48:41,519 --> 00:48:44,159 mean, I don't make you know, that's that doesn't seem like it 902 00:48:44,159 --> 00:48:47,159 would apply to podcasters. That seems like it's more of like, a 903 00:48:47,159 --> 00:48:51,089 higher financial level. But really, I mean, if you think it 904 00:48:51,089 --> 00:48:55,379 may be for us, for a very, very small podcast, we I mean, take 905 00:48:55,379 --> 00:48:58,439 something like New York Times, like the daily or serial, I 906 00:48:58,439 --> 00:49:01,259 mean, now you're telling me they made 42 million in revenue last 907 00:49:01,259 --> 00:49:05,819 year. So now you're talking about, you know, that that is 908 00:49:05,819 --> 00:49:10,139 where this channel management becomes of high, you know, of 909 00:49:10,139 --> 00:49:12,629 extreme importance. Absolutely. Because there are big, there are 910 00:49:12,629 --> 00:49:15,959 big podcasts out there that command, you know, seven figures 911 00:49:15,959 --> 00:49:18,389 that we're going to need, they're gonna, they're going to 912 00:49:18,389 --> 00:49:22,019 have to face these challenges. 100% so there is a podcast or 913 00:49:22,019 --> 00:49:22,649 tie into it. 914 00:49:22,679 --> 00:49:27,899 Yep. 100% and one verb. And I know, like, I get pushback from, 915 00:49:28,379 --> 00:49:30,149 you know, people in the lightning community every once 916 00:49:30,149 --> 00:49:32,639 in a while for using kind of these obscure terms. So let me 917 00:49:32,669 --> 00:49:33,509 you're safe here. It's 918 00:49:33,509 --> 00:49:34,379 a safe space. Let 919 00:49:34,380 --> 00:49:36,840 me let me break that I really liked this metaphor for loop 920 00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:38,910 though, because I think this is really easy to understand. And 921 00:49:38,910 --> 00:49:42,210 something that everybody has experience with. All that loop 922 00:49:42,210 --> 00:49:44,610 really is and especially in the podcast context, where you're 923 00:49:44,610 --> 00:49:47,970 receiving, you're receiving money, all liberally is is 924 00:49:48,210 --> 00:49:51,030 taking the cash that you have in your cash register, and putting 925 00:49:51,030 --> 00:49:54,060 it in the bank. Right, but you have, you know, everybody who 926 00:49:54,060 --> 00:49:57,090 ran a store for forever, had to do that at the end of the day, 927 00:49:57,120 --> 00:49:59,280 right where they you know, got a certain amount of cash and a 928 00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:01,260 cash register and How to take you to the bank for the bank 929 00:50:01,260 --> 00:50:04,920 close. Luckily, in Bitcoin, the bank never closes. But your cash 930 00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:08,130 register is just a channel, right? So you're receiving Sachi 931 00:50:08,130 --> 00:50:09,870 receiving SATs, people are paying you paying you paying 932 00:50:09,870 --> 00:50:13,080 you. And eventually your cash register gets full. And you need 933 00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:15,870 to go positive bank. So you just loop it out, you just swap it 934 00:50:15,870 --> 00:50:19,500 into on chain Bitcoin. And it's really that is it's not like, we 935 00:50:19,500 --> 00:50:21,960 do have some kind of obscure language that we've tried to use 936 00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:25,260 to get particularly trying to educate developers about the 937 00:50:25,260 --> 00:50:28,080 mental model to use when they're building around this. But like, 938 00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:31,050 really, it's it's noted, it's still money. It's no real 939 00:50:31,050 --> 00:50:33,330 different from the way that we've always interacted with it. 940 00:50:33,540 --> 00:50:36,030 It's all loop is, is just emptying your cash register. 941 00:50:36,780 --> 00:50:37,890 That's, that's all there is to it. 942 00:50:38,010 --> 00:50:39,660 I think my mom could understand that. Right? 943 00:50:39,750 --> 00:50:41,460 That's not bad, isn't it? Yes. 944 00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:44,910 This is your mom that has no learning disabilities. That's 945 00:50:44,910 --> 00:50:46,740 true. So, um, 946 00:50:48,060 --> 00:50:48,900 two things. 947 00:50:49,860 --> 00:50:50,370 One, the 948 00:50:50,370 --> 00:50:53,370 state of my analogy for the state of where we're at right 949 00:50:53,370 --> 00:50:58,140 now, because it's the one I have and it's so close. I want to say 950 00:50:58,140 --> 00:51:04,020 pirate radio in a way. But it's also an amateur ham radio 951 00:51:04,020 --> 00:51:08,100 operator. And it's kind of like you're working on hf You know, 952 00:51:08,100 --> 00:51:12,000 you're relying on kind of atmosphere conditions 953 00:51:12,030 --> 00:51:15,150 quick. Have you seen the the guys that sent the Bitcoin 954 00:51:15,150 --> 00:51:15,780 transaction? Or 955 00:51:15,900 --> 00:51:18,360 do you know that I was one of them? Oh, should I was the first 956 00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:24,360 Yeah. Did you know that? Now, to be fair, it was just an invoice 957 00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:28,110 so it wasn't like a like a full on. It was just an invoice that 958 00:51:28,110 --> 00:51:28,260 I 959 00:51:28,290 --> 00:51:31,590 got offline, but I did get it was it from from NBK from the 960 00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:33,420 guy? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Damn. 961 00:51:33,449 --> 00:51:37,139 Yeah. That's okay. Okay, but that was here. That was here in 962 00:51:37,139 --> 00:51:41,489 Austin. Was that with that little radio right over there? k 963 00:51:41,489 --> 00:51:47,819 x two. So to me it's like your reach your your signals reaching 964 00:51:47,819 --> 00:51:50,699 the other end and it's kind of atmosphere because there's some 965 00:51:50,699 --> 00:51:53,669 skip and some things and I'm bouncing I'm going arriving. But 966 00:51:53,669 --> 00:51:57,809 we're moving towards is VHF where we have repeaters all over 967 00:51:57,809 --> 00:52:01,799 Austin? You know, I'm a repeater up here in my house. And, you 968 00:52:01,799 --> 00:52:05,669 know, and and everyone pitches in their particular piece to 969 00:52:05,669 --> 00:52:08,369 make their repeater work. And now we don't have a financial 970 00:52:08,369 --> 00:52:11,699 model. But boy, wouldn't that be interesting for that? And we'll 971 00:52:11,729 --> 00:52:14,519 Yeah, well, precisely. Well, this is much, much more exciting 972 00:52:14,519 --> 00:52:17,669 mean, forget about ham radio is dead. I'm sorry to say it 973 00:52:17,669 --> 00:52:20,549 because when snow vid hit, I'm on all the channels and 974 00:52:20,549 --> 00:52:25,469 everyone's like, Can you hear me? like checking like, Where's 975 00:52:25,469 --> 00:52:28,049 all the we're gonna hams are gonna save the world? Like, no, 976 00:52:28,079 --> 00:52:31,049 that was dumb. very disappointing. disappointing. 977 00:52:31,259 --> 00:52:35,099 Community. But, but that combination was with pirate 978 00:52:35,099 --> 00:52:38,039 radio, where we're still you know, like, I'm balancing on the 979 00:52:38,039 --> 00:52:40,979 roof. I'm looking at Tim over LMP can you get my signal? 980 00:52:41,069 --> 00:52:43,589 Alright, you gotta you know, we got something from breeze. Yep. 981 00:52:43,619 --> 00:52:47,189 And that, to me is one of the most exciting times in my life, 982 00:52:47,399 --> 00:52:51,809 man, it's one fight. And I was 17 when I was on rooftops and 983 00:52:51,809 --> 00:52:55,349 doing transmitters and you know, 150 watts meant a lot, which is 984 00:52:55,349 --> 00:52:57,989 just the liquidity of the day. Yep, that was our liquidity to 985 00:52:57,989 --> 00:53:03,089 send our center our energy out to the to the people. Now, you 986 00:53:03,089 --> 00:53:05,519 know, now people have to invest in a radio. And you know, it's a 987 00:53:05,519 --> 00:53:08,519 little different, not so ubiquitous yet. But it's coming. 988 00:53:08,579 --> 00:53:12,899 It's coming. So what we need is we need a services company. And 989 00:53:12,899 --> 00:53:16,199 if there's the ones you because I think in general is called a 990 00:53:16,199 --> 00:53:19,049 lightning service provider. But even though several companies 991 00:53:19,049 --> 00:53:22,349 call themselves that what we really need is a way to connect 992 00:53:22,349 --> 00:53:27,449 these two worlds, where I can say to, you know, to Martin and 993 00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:36,689 Mitch and David Norman, I can say, here's the API that somehow 994 00:53:36,719 --> 00:53:40,259 does it all. And I know that's simplistic because of the nature 995 00:53:40,289 --> 00:53:47,399 of case end and being fully noted. Because no one has made 996 00:53:47,399 --> 00:53:50,009 that their business, everyone has said, here's my open source 997 00:53:50,009 --> 00:53:53,879 code, go ahead and do whatever you want with it. I would love 998 00:53:53,879 --> 00:53:56,399 for someone to be because you know, that's where the magic is 999 00:53:56,399 --> 00:53:59,219 going to happen. So companies like us, and we're just a big, 1000 00:53:59,639 --> 00:54:03,959 big word. We're a partnership, really. We have we're doing one 1001 00:54:03,959 --> 00:54:06,029 core thing. Now we're aggregating. We're aggregating 1002 00:54:06,029 --> 00:54:09,509 all the data, and we just want to get whatever you think is 1003 00:54:09,509 --> 00:54:13,319 worth it. But we're happy with 1% for our piece in the chain. 1004 00:54:13,559 --> 00:54:18,029 So there's going to be has to be some companies that can do that. 1005 00:54:18,359 --> 00:54:22,169 who don't have the self interest of their own wallet, etc. Is 1006 00:54:22,169 --> 00:54:23,159 anyone doing that? 1007 00:54:23,489 --> 00:54:25,679 Well, so I think the closest I mean, like you're talking, 1008 00:54:25,709 --> 00:54:28,409 you're working with two of them already. They're just very early 1009 00:54:28,409 --> 00:54:28,649 on, 1010 00:54:28,650 --> 00:54:31,530 right? It's, yeah, but they have no time for doing any of this 1011 00:54:31,530 --> 00:54:33,420 because they're running their own stuff. Of course. No, 1012 00:54:33,510 --> 00:54:38,640 I mean, it's it's the thing is, 1013 00:54:38,790 --> 00:54:41,280 pay by what you write comes very close. Like Like, 1014 00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:44,610 like in Tim Tims fantastic, right? I've chatted with Tim 1015 00:54:44,610 --> 00:54:47,010 about lightning, and he's been like, on the edge pushing the 1016 00:54:47,010 --> 00:54:47,850 boundaries for 1017 00:54:47,849 --> 00:54:50,849 that these guys like Tim and Graham. They don't actually 1018 00:54:50,849 --> 00:54:51,209 sleep. 1019 00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:55,170 I'm aware of that. They've been struck by lightning 1020 00:54:56,579 --> 00:54:57,119 stroke 1021 00:54:58,380 --> 00:54:59,130 to shed 1022 00:54:59,250 --> 00:55:01,830 pretty well you know, The other the other one that comes close, 1023 00:55:01,830 --> 00:55:05,910 and it's not necessarily API ish, but satoshis de stream that 1024 00:55:06,060 --> 00:55:10,710 I am blown away by this, I am to that thing came out of nowhere, 1025 00:55:10,710 --> 00:55:11,400 and those guys are 1026 00:55:12,540 --> 00:55:15,360 I think it's a bunch of Dutch guys. And, and they've been 1027 00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:18,600 they've been like routing between themselves and was 1028 00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:23,250 probably marnix, who drove that. And, and once they got going, 1029 00:55:23,250 --> 00:55:25,680 man, it was just it was non stop, they got something grumps 1030 00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:29,430 ending, I'm saying, I will pay money to have this on my node. 1031 00:55:30,030 --> 00:55:31,530 It's unbelievable. 1032 00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:35,400 So that's what's that's what I think is is interesting, like a 1033 00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:39,480 more meta point, just about kind of decentralized communities and 1034 00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:42,360 open source protocols is like, I've seen this happen kind of 1035 00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:44,430 over and over again, where there's this, like, there's this 1036 00:55:44,430 --> 00:55:47,100 gap in the market, right? And the people that are trying to 1037 00:55:47,100 --> 00:55:50,700 build stuff, and like, I need somebody here filling this role, 1038 00:55:50,700 --> 00:55:54,210 and this has to happen. It's, I need this to happen, right? And 1039 00:55:54,210 --> 00:55:56,940 there's always this period, it's really uncomfortable, where 1040 00:55:56,940 --> 00:56:00,090 like, nobody steps up, nobody steps up, nobody steps up. But 1041 00:56:00,090 --> 00:56:03,510 eventually, like somebody, some entrepreneur somewhere, says, 1042 00:56:03,510 --> 00:56:06,720 You know what, like, I can solve that problem, right now I step 1043 00:56:06,720 --> 00:56:09,120 up, and they fill the void, and they fill the gap. And all of a 1044 00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:11,370 sudden, like, things just kind of accelerate there. But there's 1045 00:56:11,370 --> 00:56:14,370 always that uncomfortable period, where just like, nobody 1046 00:56:14,370 --> 00:56:17,100 stepped up yet. And everybody starts wondering, like, is this 1047 00:56:17,100 --> 00:56:19,320 gonna work? Do we need to like go reach out to the big 1048 00:56:19,320 --> 00:56:20,250 enterprises? and 1049 00:56:21,119 --> 00:56:23,819 paint is that for us? For sure. Exactly. And that team stepped 1050 00:56:23,819 --> 00:56:24,569 into exactly the 1051 00:56:24,570 --> 00:56:27,000 right moves. This guy's doing the same thing with was totally 1052 00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:30,570 stuck stream. Yeah. And I think, you know, this is this is 1053 00:56:31,500 --> 00:56:37,170 Thank you, by the way, for running support. For us, I see 1054 00:56:37,170 --> 00:56:39,690 you at 630 in the morning, are you also do you also run the 1055 00:56:39,750 --> 00:56:42,030 lightning pool? The Twitter account? 1056 00:56:42,210 --> 00:56:44,610 I do not know that. So that's, that's one of the discount. 1057 00:56:44,610 --> 00:56:46,440 That's HBO. And that 1058 00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:52,230 smelled like, you know, again, like this is this is this, this 1059 00:56:52,290 --> 00:56:55,530 was Thank you. It's appreciate it. And I see the CEO of breeze 1060 00:56:55,530 --> 00:56:58,140 doing it, you know, and it's beautiful. It's a labor of love. 1061 00:56:58,140 --> 00:57:01,410 Paul is always is always doing support. Yeah, it's what, 1062 00:57:01,739 --> 00:57:04,319 you know, one of the things that, that, on that note, kind 1063 00:57:04,319 --> 00:57:08,789 of a similar thing that has been really sort of striking me 1064 00:57:08,789 --> 00:57:12,779 lately, thinking about this yesterday, is we kind of went if 1065 00:57:12,779 --> 00:57:15,359 you go back to the origins of open source, I mean, maybe not 1066 00:57:15,359 --> 00:57:18,209 all the way back to the to the, to the cobweb days. But I mean, 1067 00:57:18,209 --> 00:57:21,659 like, if you go back to, you know, the 90s and Linux getting 1068 00:57:21,659 --> 00:57:25,619 started and all these sort of the birth of FP No, false. And, 1069 00:57:25,889 --> 00:57:31,139 you know, and that shareware shareware, you know, if you go 1070 00:57:31,139 --> 00:57:35,399 back to that whole to that, if you call that maybe a phase one, 1071 00:57:36,179 --> 00:57:39,389 where people were just literally giving stuff away, they get 1072 00:57:39,389 --> 00:57:42,149 nothing in return for it, you know, and it was, you know, 1073 00:57:42,299 --> 00:57:45,479 that's where you ended up with these sort of these problems of 1074 00:57:46,079 --> 00:57:49,379 people have these projects that became critical to the internet. 1075 00:57:49,409 --> 00:57:51,989 And if they fell over, you know, the whole internet stopped 1076 00:57:51,989 --> 00:57:55,229 working me No, no, but then you had sort of, then you then you 1077 00:57:55,229 --> 00:57:58,409 went to sort of a phase two, where you had companies like red 1078 00:57:58,409 --> 00:58:00,539 hat, who was saying, Hey, we're gonna give away all have our 1079 00:58:00,539 --> 00:58:04,289 stuff. But we're also going to trip but we're going to charge 1080 00:58:04,289 --> 00:58:06,959 you more like a freemium thing, where if you want support for 1081 00:58:06,959 --> 00:58:09,689 it, you're going to you pay us and that's going to be our 1082 00:58:09,689 --> 00:58:13,019 business model. But then now I see sort of like this phase 1083 00:58:13,019 --> 00:58:18,119 three emerging with lightning labs, breeze, Ellen pay. I mean, 1084 00:58:18,149 --> 00:58:23,309 we're Sphinx where you got these out, put us in that category as 1085 00:58:23,309 --> 00:58:27,449 well. We have a new category of open source company where it's 1086 00:58:27,449 --> 00:58:30,689 like, where the model is, yes, we're still going to give our 1087 00:58:30,689 --> 00:58:33,029 software away, we're going to be radically transparent. We're 1088 00:58:33,029 --> 00:58:36,839 going to give everything we have away. But we're just going to, 1089 00:58:37,529 --> 00:58:43,529 but where our value is going to be as a participant. And the end 1090 00:58:43,529 --> 00:58:47,189 The thing is, like, what what they're building, what lightning 1091 00:58:47,189 --> 00:58:49,679 Labs is building, what we're building, what braises building, 1092 00:58:50,129 --> 00:58:54,419 that that sort that open source stuff is building things that 1093 00:58:54,419 --> 00:58:57,809 will last way beyond if that company were to disappear. 100% 1094 00:58:57,930 --> 00:59:00,840 Yeah, I mean, like, you know, one way, I don't want to cut you 1095 00:59:00,840 --> 00:59:03,090 off at all, please continue. But like, all I wanted to interject 1096 00:59:03,090 --> 00:59:05,760 with is we're just another note on the network. Right? Well, 1097 00:59:05,820 --> 00:59:09,690 another couple notes on the network, right. And when we're 1098 00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:12,180 experiencing all the same problems that everybody else is, 1099 00:59:12,390 --> 00:59:15,270 a lot of the stuff that makes it into to l&d, a lot of the work 1100 00:59:15,270 --> 00:59:18,540 that gets prioritized is problems that, you know, we 1101 00:59:18,540 --> 00:59:21,570 ourselves are having in the notice, and we're like, oh, man, 1102 00:59:21,570 --> 00:59:24,120 other people are going to have this problem too. And then a lot 1103 00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:26,850 of the other problems are things that, you know, like breeze in 1104 00:59:26,850 --> 00:59:28,710 particular is a great example where they've been pushing the 1105 00:59:28,710 --> 00:59:30,720 ball forward on the zero comp channels and all that sort of 1106 00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:34,110 stuff that they say, hey, like, you know, I know you guys are 1107 00:59:34,110 --> 00:59:37,260 uncomfortable with, you know, this sort of stuff making l&d 1108 00:59:37,260 --> 00:59:39,750 but we need this, we're gonna make the PR we're gonna make it 1109 00:59:39,750 --> 00:59:42,480 easy to review. We're gonna set it out there and we're gonna 1110 00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:44,490 push for this to make it in because we think it'll improve 1111 00:59:44,490 --> 00:59:45,630 the network for everybody else. 1112 00:59:45,780 --> 00:59:49,650 Do you think that everyone will be a company like, Well, let me 1113 00:59:49,650 --> 00:59:52,830 just cut just to give you a guess like Apple who could 1114 00:59:52,830 --> 00:59:56,670 integrate this into their products or is that Yeah, easily 1115 00:59:56,670 --> 00:59:59,970 counterintuitive to their current business and 1116 00:59:59,999 --> 01:00:03,269 Actually, I think Apple is probably the most likely now, 1117 01:00:03,299 --> 01:00:04,889 you know, probably years away, 1118 01:00:04,919 --> 01:00:08,939 but like, Apple made a very interesting why years away, just 1119 01:00:08,939 --> 01:00:12,179 because of the nature of the beast, it takes six days to move 1120 01:00:12,419 --> 01:00:14,129 something out of Suez Canal idea. 1121 01:00:14,159 --> 01:00:22,529 So kind of kind of like in 2017 so I really like how this a lot 1122 01:00:22,529 --> 01:00:25,829 of this comes from Elizabeth Of course, working behind the 1123 01:00:25,829 --> 01:00:30,449 scenes, but how Ross Stephens the executive chairman of 98 I 1124 01:00:30,449 --> 01:00:33,479 don't know if y'all read his shareholder letter talking about 1125 01:00:33,479 --> 01:00:36,329 Bitcoin but he or no, this is actually his interview with 1126 01:00:36,329 --> 01:00:39,209 Michael sailor, the MicroStrategy CEO he talked 1127 01:00:39,209 --> 01:00:41,909 about how there's Bitcoin the asset and people really get 1128 01:00:41,939 --> 01:00:44,609 Bitcoin the asset the store value what people are sleeping 1129 01:00:44,609 --> 01:00:46,649 on and what they don't really understand yet is Bitcoin the 1130 01:00:46,649 --> 01:00:49,739 network and that's of course is a cube locations 1131 01:00:49,740 --> 01:00:50,880 network is 1132 01:00:51,540 --> 01:00:55,260 exactly right. Like Not a lot of people get that yet. In 2017. 1133 01:00:56,730 --> 01:00:59,850 There were you know, all of these all of this overexuberance 1134 01:00:59,880 --> 01:01:03,150 all this talk about how like all the institutions are coming like 1135 01:01:03,150 --> 01:01:05,430 you know, they're gonna be buying you know, billions of 1136 01:01:05,430 --> 01:01:07,770 dollars a Bitcoin, putting on the balance sheet. We're like, 1137 01:01:07,770 --> 01:01:10,890 next step as nation states, we're almost there. And all of 1138 01:01:10,890 --> 01:01:11,280 that, guys, 1139 01:01:11,550 --> 01:01:13,890 this is the year of desktop, Linux, 100%. Right. 1140 01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:19,440 They went wrong. Now the mobile Linux, that's what this is 1000s 1141 01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:22,230 of sealed, indictments will be unveiled my friend, all these 1142 01:01:22,230 --> 01:01:24,480 crooked all these crooked people are going to jail. 1143 01:01:24,570 --> 01:01:26,790 But like they weren't wrong, they were just like four years 1144 01:01:26,790 --> 01:01:30,240 too early. Right. And so I think that was because, you know, 1145 01:01:30,240 --> 01:01:32,370 these these large companies, these large institutions, when 1146 01:01:32,370 --> 01:01:35,010 they make a big decision on something core is like joining 1147 01:01:35,010 --> 01:01:38,250 us. Right? The big deal. It's a big deal. They don't like the 1148 01:01:38,640 --> 01:01:41,580 good Apple put a note in every phone today. Yeah, probably, 1149 01:01:41,940 --> 01:01:44,730 like, are they going to wait until you know somebody else has 1150 01:01:44,730 --> 01:01:48,000 tried and failed and look stupid doing it so they can learn from 1151 01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:51,420 it? Most likely, right. And I think we'll probably get there, 1152 01:01:51,450 --> 01:01:54,150 you know, we'll backdoor way into it. You know, the future, I 1153 01:01:54,150 --> 01:01:58,980 think, is everybody like, you know, your little raspy Blitz 1154 01:01:58,980 --> 01:02:02,340 right there, which is a great product and Rizal and open arms. 1155 01:02:02,340 --> 01:02:04,740 And those guys have done a great job with it. I think the future 1156 01:02:04,740 --> 01:02:08,250 is something that's you know, like a slick, super sexy apple 1157 01:02:08,250 --> 01:02:11,970 or square device. plugged in, it's your bank, you plug it in, 1158 01:02:12,030 --> 01:02:15,720 and you pair on your phone. And you know, nobody's able to lose 1159 01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:18,750 your money, you have customer support, you know, you got like 1160 01:02:18,750 --> 01:02:21,900 private key management, super easy. And it just holds your 1161 01:02:21,900 --> 01:02:24,390 Bitcoin in your like, slowly earn interest. And you know, 1162 01:02:24,390 --> 01:02:27,060 ideally, if you're a podcaster, or a creator, and this is why I 1163 01:02:27,060 --> 01:02:29,430 think Apple is actually a great fit for it is because they're 1164 01:02:29,430 --> 01:02:32,760 all about, you know, creative people. If you're a creator, 1165 01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:35,460 this is your, you know, your bank, your cash register. And 1166 01:02:35,460 --> 01:02:39,720 that's why they did what they did with Final Cut Pro creators, 1167 01:02:39,929 --> 01:02:40,529 you know, like, 1168 01:02:42,090 --> 01:02:45,420 there's this kind of to face side to it. Right? Yeah, it 1169 01:02:45,420 --> 01:02:47,190 was the strongest proponent of Apple 1170 01:02:47,639 --> 01:02:48,359 for a while, don't 1171 01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:51,330 you think? Don't you think Tesla change that change that 1172 01:02:51,330 --> 01:02:54,780 narrative when they when they pulled their Bitcoin purchase? I 1173 01:02:54,780 --> 01:02:58,740 mean, I don't because it seems it seems like that was I think 1174 01:02:58,740 --> 01:03:01,230 it was a little bit of a two edged sword because some people 1175 01:03:01,230 --> 01:03:05,370 can dismiss Tesla because they Ilan is crazy. But then, at the 1176 01:03:05,370 --> 01:03:07,770 same time, though, that's a humongous bet. 1177 01:03:08,010 --> 01:03:09,000 That's a really good Yeah, it's 1178 01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:13,680 a really good point. You know, and Apple is, you know, if Apple 1179 01:03:13,680 --> 01:03:18,180 is multiple Tesla's, I guess, it comes to this point where we are 1180 01:03:18,420 --> 01:03:22,170 financially or economically on a macro level, if you look at it 1181 01:03:22,170 --> 01:03:25,950 mean, just take us for example. I mean, there's really no place 1182 01:03:25,950 --> 01:03:29,670 to put your money to make anything. Yep. And in that goes 1183 01:03:29,700 --> 01:03:33,180 in that is trickle It began with low interest rates at banks, and 1184 01:03:33,180 --> 01:03:38,430 that has trickled up now. to large, it's, the problem is 1185 01:03:38,430 --> 01:03:43,110 growing to larger institutions. So if, in the way the US treats 1186 01:03:43,110 --> 01:03:48,510 Bitcoin, is, you know, treating it as property is almost, it's 1187 01:03:48,510 --> 01:03:51,450 like, it's, it's probably the best thing that could have ever 1188 01:03:51,450 --> 01:03:52,680 happened to Bitcoin, obviously. 1189 01:03:53,070 --> 01:03:57,090 Yeah. Thank you for saying that, if you could, it like, like, I 1190 01:03:57,090 --> 01:03:59,160 don't know these people personally, but I know people 1191 01:03:59,160 --> 01:04:02,100 that know, like, you know, a bunch of the big Chinese miners 1192 01:04:02,100 --> 01:04:05,730 who've been mining since 2010. Like the flood of Bitcoin that 1193 01:04:05,730 --> 01:04:09,540 has come out of Chinese pockets and into the hands of us 1194 01:04:09,540 --> 01:04:12,480 institutions over the last like three years in particular is 1195 01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:12,960 just 1196 01:04:13,110 --> 01:04:16,380 staggering. You were telling me this morning about what avid was 1197 01:04:16,380 --> 01:04:20,160 saying this is old news by now people are hearing this but so 1198 01:04:20,250 --> 01:04:24,330 so the the idea is that we're going to make Texas A crypto 1199 01:04:24,330 --> 01:04:25,770 state mining friendly. 1200 01:04:26,220 --> 01:04:31,650 I mean, there's like a my I mean, Bitcoin is as Texan as it 1201 01:04:31,650 --> 01:04:32,130 gets. 1202 01:04:32,190 --> 01:04:35,880 I agree. And have you ever been on to those guys out there? at 1203 01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:39,750 the at the switch there beyond Taylor, the rockdale sign? 1204 01:04:39,780 --> 01:04:42,030 Yeah, those guys haven't been out there like, 1205 01:04:42,869 --> 01:04:46,829 Oh my god, it's like crypto crypto cowboys in the desert. It 1206 01:04:46,829 --> 01:04:47,189 is. 1207 01:04:47,219 --> 01:04:48,359 Yeah. They've, 1208 01:04:48,450 --> 01:04:51,210 you know, they have a barn literally, a barn. 1209 01:04:51,300 --> 01:04:54,120 That's incredible. And I mean, you're gonna see like, there's 1210 01:04:54,450 --> 01:04:57,300 like those guys. There's flared gas guys. flare 1211 01:04:57,300 --> 01:04:59,970 gas is very interesting where they build containers out. 1212 01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:01,890 They're so there's the huddle ranch guys. But 1213 01:05:01,890 --> 01:05:03,630 then there's also you know, like, you know, the unchained 1214 01:05:03,630 --> 01:05:06,840 capital guys here in Austin like they're one of the kind of 1215 01:05:06,840 --> 01:05:09,240 foremost kind of Bitcoin banks right now. 1216 01:05:10,679 --> 01:05:13,199 It makes sense for this to happen in the south to the east. 1217 01:05:13,799 --> 01:05:19,469 Totally Kentucky just passed laws to make to incentivize my 1218 01:05:19,469 --> 01:05:21,389 Bitcoin miners to come to the state. Yeah, 1219 01:05:21,420 --> 01:05:24,990 yeah, it's so so so Abbott's tweet this morning, you know, he 1220 01:05:24,990 --> 01:05:29,040 was he was pulling to Trump and tweeting from the shitter 1221 01:05:29,700 --> 01:05:30,780 12:37am. 1222 01:05:31,409 --> 01:05:32,639 Nothing wrong with that, my friend, 1223 01:05:33,179 --> 01:05:36,359 count me in as a crypto law proposal supporter is 1224 01:05:36,359 --> 01:05:39,149 increasingly being used for transactions and is beginning to 1225 01:05:39,149 --> 01:05:42,329 go mainstream as an investment, fidelity etc. Trying to get a 1226 01:05:42,329 --> 01:05:45,689 Bitcoin ETF Texas should lead on this like we did with a gold 1227 01:05:45,689 --> 01:05:46,319 depository. 1228 01:05:47,790 --> 01:05:48,900 That's so powerful. Send 1229 01:05:48,900 --> 01:05:50,400 it that that's so 1230 01:05:50,400 --> 01:05:50,790 powerful. 1231 01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:53,940 Let's go. And so one one light, like interesting little 1232 01:05:53,940 --> 01:05:57,930 connection here is Wyoming is kind of leading the way right 1233 01:05:57,930 --> 01:06:00,390 now. You know, thanks to Caitlin long and a number of folks up 1234 01:06:00,390 --> 01:06:04,470 there and now senator Loomis up they're leading the way on like 1235 01:06:04,470 --> 01:06:07,560 actual legislation that's been passed. It's Bitcoin friendly, 1236 01:06:07,560 --> 01:06:11,640 this regulating asset the right way, is making it safe to build 1237 01:06:11,640 --> 01:06:15,420 a business there and to and to hold crypto assets within the 1238 01:06:15,420 --> 01:06:18,810 state absolute that's important. And so what's great, the really 1239 01:06:18,810 --> 01:06:22,050 cool thing that we have going here in Texas is one of like the 1240 01:06:22,050 --> 01:06:25,590 key members on the blockchain Task Force up there they got 1241 01:06:25,590 --> 01:06:30,270 this pushed is will Cole who is the head of product at unchained 1242 01:06:30,270 --> 01:06:30,870 capital now, 1243 01:06:31,050 --> 01:06:33,660 I met with that I meet him when I moved to that meetup. I can't 1244 01:06:33,660 --> 01:06:36,570 remember. I met I met him guys named Parker. 1245 01:06:39,179 --> 01:06:40,109 Where you're in Texas. 1246 01:06:40,230 --> 01:06:43,290 He's he's he's almost always there. But I actually don't 1247 01:06:43,290 --> 01:06:46,920 know. He may not have been there. I think you I don't think 1248 01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:52,770 he was because, yeah, he's, I mean, you know, get him we got 1249 01:06:52,800 --> 01:06:57,030 Christopher callicott at Trimble Venture Partners who's who's 1250 01:06:57,030 --> 01:06:59,100 helping kind of with the blockchain task force here in 1251 01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:02,130 Texas, Joe Kelly's the CEO, how can I help? I think 1252 01:07:02,130 --> 01:07:04,500 I can do here and if you need any, like free marketing, 1253 01:07:04,740 --> 01:07:07,830 I mean, as I as I as I generally do all connect. 1254 01:07:09,090 --> 01:07:12,240 What am I even saying? Crazy things. 1255 01:07:12,240 --> 01:07:15,780 I don't get the handoff. Yeah, exactly. Cuz, I mean, like, 1256 01:07:15,780 --> 01:07:17,760 that's one of the things that you know, a lot of the crypto 1257 01:07:17,760 --> 01:07:20,700 anarchists people in Bitcoin, right, like they say, like, you 1258 01:07:20,700 --> 01:07:23,160 know, we need to build a system so that we don't need 1259 01:07:23,430 --> 01:07:26,700 regulators, right. So that we can exist outside of this. Yeah, 1260 01:07:26,700 --> 01:07:27,570 that's that's not 1261 01:07:27,570 --> 01:07:28,380 the right way to do it. 1262 01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:31,560 I largely agree philosophically. And but like, you just got to 1263 01:07:31,560 --> 01:07:34,260 transition. I know, you got to transition and like it would be 1264 01:07:34,260 --> 01:07:37,020 so much easier if we could do this in a way where like, the 1265 01:07:37,020 --> 01:07:39,630 rules were set in place to where like it was it was okay to do 1266 01:07:39,630 --> 01:07:41,370 this. And people felt comfortable already great. 1267 01:07:41,699 --> 01:07:45,809 And what away what a way for our mayor in Austin to to rebuild a 1268 01:07:45,809 --> 01:07:49,169 bridge and to reach out and to say, you know, we may disagree 1269 01:07:49,169 --> 01:07:53,309 on some things. But I like the idea of Austin being the crypto 1270 01:07:53,309 --> 01:07:54,839 capital of the United States 1271 01:07:54,869 --> 01:07:57,059 put a billboard up in Cabo. Let him know. 1272 01:07:57,449 --> 01:08:01,139 Yeah. So like with any his head can put it up. 1273 01:08:01,170 --> 01:08:04,170 You see, this is the beauty of a take and put it up so Adler can 1274 01:08:04,170 --> 01:08:04,410 see 1275 01:08:04,410 --> 01:08:05,160 it. There you go. 1276 01:08:06,449 --> 01:08:09,239 It feels like to me I love the fact that states are doing this 1277 01:08:09,239 --> 01:08:12,839 and leading states rights is gonna be huge. It feels like the 1278 01:08:12,839 --> 01:08:15,029 return of Wildcat banking. Yeah, that's 1279 01:08:15,900 --> 01:08:16,440 a great point. 1280 01:08:16,500 --> 01:08:20,190 It's all because it's it's all because it's property and not 1281 01:08:20,190 --> 01:08:23,010 currency. If this was currency, you would have immediate Well, 1282 01:08:23,070 --> 01:08:27,570 you know, it evens even so I mean, like, to me, what I think 1283 01:08:27,570 --> 01:08:29,490 one people one thing people don't understand, at least here 1284 01:08:29,490 --> 01:08:33,270 in the us is that states rights is probably the strongest right 1285 01:08:33,270 --> 01:08:37,770 now that it has been since before World War One. I mean, it 1286 01:08:37,770 --> 01:08:42,990 is so it has been a very slow sort of silent progression that 1287 01:08:42,990 --> 01:08:48,420 began with the the began with California and the West Coast 1288 01:08:48,420 --> 01:08:52,440 challenging the feds on on marijuana legalization, and then 1289 01:08:52,440 --> 01:08:55,500 thing just died. And they're like the feds initially were 1290 01:08:55,500 --> 01:08:59,280 rating California. And they basically said, Hey, you, you're 1291 01:08:59,280 --> 01:09:00,690 gonna stop that right now? Because 1292 01:09:00,690 --> 01:09:03,210 we might have our National Guard like, shoot back. 1293 01:09:03,480 --> 01:09:07,350 Exactly. They did. And it has been like a resurgence of states 1294 01:09:07,350 --> 01:09:11,340 right now states states are essentially nullifying in not 1295 01:09:11,340 --> 01:09:13,950 maybe not in principle, but inaction. They're nullifying 1296 01:09:13,950 --> 01:09:17,430 federal laws just whenever they want to know if the if you have 1297 01:09:17,430 --> 01:09:21,360 a return, like a resurgence of sort of a Wildcat banking, 1298 01:09:21,750 --> 01:09:25,590 alternative currency movement that happens among the states, 1299 01:09:25,770 --> 01:09:28,140 that could get very interesting very quickly. 1300 01:09:28,200 --> 01:09:30,630 What can we learn from that history and mistakes that should 1301 01:09:30,630 --> 01:09:35,490 not be remade? Or is is it is our Genie So? So like when our 1302 01:09:35,490 --> 01:09:38,430 genies got out of the bottle, that bottle cease to exist? 1303 01:09:38,700 --> 01:09:41,100 So I think the really the really interesting thing, there is an 1304 01:09:41,100 --> 01:09:45,600 argument posed by Ben hunt, who writes, he's got like a 1305 01:09:45,600 --> 01:09:48,690 financial blog, and I'm blanking on of course, right. 1306 01:09:48,690 --> 01:09:49,410 Mike's brother. 1307 01:09:50,400 --> 01:09:51,750 No joke, I'm 1308 01:09:51,750 --> 01:09:53,730 sorry. Really bad joke. 1309 01:09:54,179 --> 01:09:58,889 Epsilon theory is his blog. So he reads these hedge fund guys, 1310 01:09:59,069 --> 01:10:02,219 this guy generally very smart and a lot of bitcoiners have 1311 01:10:02,219 --> 01:10:04,859 been reading him for a long time. And he like his they've 1312 01:10:04,859 --> 01:10:07,739 been flabbergasted that he like, doesn't like Bitcoin. So he 1313 01:10:07,739 --> 01:10:10,949 recently was like on a, you know, it was on a podcast or 1314 01:10:10,949 --> 01:10:12,899 clubhouse or something like that and kind of clarified his 1315 01:10:12,899 --> 01:10:14,939 position a little bit, which I actually thought was very smart. 1316 01:10:14,969 --> 01:10:19,979 I mean, it's like the, the, the way that this goes down, it 1317 01:10:19,979 --> 01:10:23,069 fails as us has always been to like budding about Wall Street 1318 01:10:23,069 --> 01:10:24,839 kind of taking control and stuff. It's like the way this 1319 01:10:24,839 --> 01:10:28,049 goes down and go sideways. If we get Facebook, just like kind of 1320 01:10:28,049 --> 01:10:30,119 how Facebook did to the internet, where they just made 1321 01:10:30,119 --> 01:10:33,389 the experience. so nice and so slick, that before you knew it, 1322 01:10:33,389 --> 01:10:35,939 billions of people thought that they were using the free and 1323 01:10:35,939 --> 01:10:37,019 open Internet. That's what I'm 1324 01:10:37,020 --> 01:10:39,330 worried about was with Apple that they come in and do some 1325 01:10:39,330 --> 01:10:42,300 kind of payment thing and Apple Pay. And then they make it so 1326 01:10:42,300 --> 01:10:45,240 slick and so easy. Everyone goes drooling over there until we go 1327 01:10:45,240 --> 01:10:47,760 through another eight years and people get kicked off and 1328 01:10:47,790 --> 01:10:50,490 defunded and D platformed. And they have to learn again, that's 1329 01:10:50,490 --> 01:10:51,000 a fear. 1330 01:10:51,030 --> 01:10:55,500 So that's the argument that's the argument or prioritizing 1331 01:10:55,740 --> 01:11:02,400 education right now, rather than prioritizing. You know, UX, is 1332 01:11:02,400 --> 01:11:05,970 saying like, you know, we need as many people out there in the 1333 01:11:05,970 --> 01:11:09,300 world that understand this stuff that are capable of running 1334 01:11:09,300 --> 01:11:11,640 their own nodes are capable of running nodes for their 1335 01:11:11,640 --> 01:11:15,150 neighbors and for the friends and stuff like that. They can 1336 01:11:15,150 --> 01:11:19,140 make the experience easy enough for their their community. So 1337 01:11:19,140 --> 01:11:22,080 that when Apple comes in or you know, whoever comes in with 1338 01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:25,860 their like, nice, sleek, shiny, you know, almost Bitcoin but not 1339 01:11:25,860 --> 01:11:29,640 really Bitcoin. They can say No, thanks, we're good with our own 1340 01:11:29,640 --> 01:11:29,910 thing. 1341 01:11:30,210 --> 01:11:34,050 This this one, maybe weird piece of advice, that wisdom I'll give 1342 01:11:34,050 --> 01:11:36,630 to anyone who wants to start some development. From our own 1343 01:11:36,630 --> 01:11:40,620 experience, we started nine months ago, I put, you know, 1344 01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:45,600 some savings onto my onto my home node here. Put a couple 1345 01:11:45,600 --> 01:11:51,240 grand in cookbooks onto the podcast index node. And Dave 1346 01:11:52,110 --> 01:11:55,380 pulled his card for the servers. And then we brought in Eric, 1347 01:11:55,380 --> 01:11:58,650 who, you know, made us all legal and appropriate and protected 1348 01:11:58,650 --> 01:12:02,850 and bank accounts and all that stuff. But the even though we've 1349 01:12:02,850 --> 01:12:06,480 been I've been spending money on voltage, I've been opening 1350 01:12:06,480 --> 01:12:09,360 channels for people, we've set up notes for people in pre 1351 01:12:09,360 --> 01:12:11,730 finance that just you know, because we thought thought was 1352 01:12:11,730 --> 01:12:15,840 important. We still have more money than when we started with 1353 01:12:15,840 --> 01:12:18,960 because of the intrinsic without the value in Trinidad, right? 1354 01:12:18,960 --> 01:12:22,650 Where because the value of Bitcoin versus the US dollar has 1355 01:12:22,650 --> 01:12:27,870 just exponentially gone up that we're running in the plus while 1356 01:12:27,870 --> 01:12:33,120 making expenses of a startup, which is is very novel 1357 01:12:33,120 --> 01:12:36,690 experiences superpower. Yeah, and I don't think it'll stop. 1358 01:12:36,690 --> 01:12:39,870 You know, I mean, I'm I'm like, I'm with Max Keiser, no matter 1359 01:12:39,870 --> 01:12:43,110 what, whatever max says he called 50. Right, called 62. 1360 01:12:43,110 --> 01:12:46,710 Right? I'm with Max. No, it doesn't really matter. The fact 1361 01:12:46,710 --> 01:12:51,390 that the money would not be stored in any better place. Yep. 1362 01:12:51,690 --> 01:12:53,820 Is, is a huge advantage. 1363 01:12:53,850 --> 01:12:56,820 That's a good point. Because we there's been an ongoing 1364 01:12:56,820 --> 01:12:59,520 discussion over the last couple of days on the on the mastodon 1365 01:12:59,940 --> 01:13:04,140 about, like, with me, and I know, Adam is the same way and a 1366 01:13:04,140 --> 01:13:08,970 lot of other big one centric people are this way, is, you 1367 01:13:08,970 --> 01:13:11,910 know, I just leave when, when money comes into my node, like, 1368 01:13:12,240 --> 01:13:16,200 my, my split my value split of this show, you know, sat 1369 01:13:16,200 --> 01:13:18,780 streaming, and I just leave, I mean, it just stays there. I 1370 01:13:18,780 --> 01:13:22,500 don't, I don't ever think about taking it out, because I'm just 1371 01:13:22,500 --> 01:13:26,340 gonna just gonna do that. But then there's been questions 1372 01:13:26,370 --> 01:13:29,940 lately, it's like well, okay, now I've got SATs, like, what do 1373 01:13:29,940 --> 01:13:32,340 I do with this study? Or how do I get it out? You know, like, 1374 01:13:32,340 --> 01:13:35,370 how do I getting it out? meaning how do I convert this back into 1375 01:13:35,370 --> 01:13:40,230 Fiat if I'm gonna and like, what is what's the current thinking 1376 01:13:40,230 --> 01:13:44,700 on that? What's the best way to sort of convert stuff back out 1377 01:13:44,700 --> 01:13:47,610 of lightning without getting sort of destroyed on the way 1378 01:13:47,610 --> 01:13:47,940 out? 1379 01:13:48,240 --> 01:13:51,000 Yeah, it's a good question. I mean, like that's 1380 01:13:51,959 --> 01:13:54,899 isn't that what what jack Mahler's is doing in a way or is 1381 01:13:54,899 --> 01:13:56,009 that not quite so 1382 01:13:56,160 --> 01:14:01,920 I've never I've only ever used jack to go into lightning I've 1383 01:14:01,920 --> 01:14:05,040 never seen I've never done the opposite way. I imagine it works 1384 01:14:05,040 --> 01:14:08,220 fine there but I just haven't done it right. But like you 1385 01:14:08,220 --> 01:14:10,410 know, the folks that river financial who we talked to today 1386 01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:15,690 you know, they they're like a Bitcoin first kind of bank and 1387 01:14:15,690 --> 01:14:19,140 so they have lightning deposits enabled so you can go deposit 1388 01:14:19,140 --> 01:14:21,960 straight to rivers node and they'll you know, you can swap 1389 01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:26,610 so your Bitcoin your lightning Bitcoin for $4 directly there 1390 01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:28,470 have them do the swap you have them do this or 1391 01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:30,480 however they manage it. No one needs to know 1392 01:14:30,480 --> 01:14:32,460 right? It's now because like you're sending it into their 1393 01:14:32,460 --> 01:14:34,680 custody, right? You know, it's theirs, but they will kind of 1394 01:14:34,680 --> 01:14:38,010 credit you with it. In general, kind of like the Fiat to 1395 01:14:38,010 --> 01:14:42,480 lightning bridges are even slow to pop up. I think. Yeah, kind 1396 01:14:42,480 --> 01:14:44,700 of like the more the more customer demand that there is 1397 01:14:44,700 --> 01:14:45,150 for it. 1398 01:14:45,870 --> 01:14:49,680 But in our case, it's it's lightning to Fiat because 1399 01:14:49,740 --> 01:14:52,800 everyone's you know, just wound up with with lightning because 1400 01:14:52,800 --> 01:14:55,110 they set up a node and they're receiving and now it's getting 1401 01:14:55,110 --> 01:15:02,040 out. Yep. And I think this is the the An issue between on 1402 01:15:02,040 --> 01:15:03,810 chain and off chain and yeah and I 1403 01:15:04,470 --> 01:15:08,850 and that's it's it's tough. I mean, like ideally companies 1404 01:15:08,850 --> 01:15:12,360 would just handle that for you. But there is just like a lot of 1405 01:15:12,360 --> 01:15:15,420 the Fiat on ramps are also crypto exchanges. 1406 01:15:15,450 --> 01:15:17,640 Yeah and they have all kinds of regulatory issues 1407 01:15:17,910 --> 01:15:20,220 and regulatory they have internal incentive issues were 1408 01:15:20,220 --> 01:15:24,390 actually much they much would refer you to swap your Bitcoin 1409 01:15:24,390 --> 01:15:28,740 for sure another coins that they can do they can profit off the 1410 01:15:28,740 --> 01:15:32,160 trade and then have you send out there right then just have 1411 01:15:32,190 --> 01:15:34,380 handled the Bitcoin swap for you. So like, you know, there's, 1412 01:15:34,650 --> 01:15:37,320 there's a GitHub repo of all the exchanges that support lightning 1413 01:15:37,320 --> 01:15:40,290 right now. And, you know, like, it's, there's a bunch in, like 1414 01:15:40,290 --> 01:15:44,040 Argentina, there's a bunch in, there's a couple in Vietnam, 1415 01:15:44,070 --> 01:15:46,800 there's some like in you know, like Sub Saharan Africa, 1416 01:15:46,830 --> 01:15:49,770 there's, you know, a handful in Eastern Europe, like they're all 1417 01:15:49,770 --> 01:15:52,620 over the place, it's just the US has been a little bit slower to 1418 01:15:52,620 --> 01:15:55,200 adopt. So I think like, your two best bets are either strike from 1419 01:15:55,200 --> 01:15:59,190 jack Mahler's or river financial, right? For going 1420 01:15:59,190 --> 01:16:02,250 directly from lightning to US dollars. And both of like, I use 1421 01:16:02,250 --> 01:16:05,580 both of those products. They're both, you know, run by good 1422 01:16:05,610 --> 01:16:07,530 solid bitcoiners I, you know, 1423 01:16:07,980 --> 01:16:11,160 you can you can depend on them. It's really, it's really 1424 01:16:11,160 --> 01:16:14,760 interesting, that cash app and Coinbase and some of these 1425 01:16:14,760 --> 01:16:19,710 other, you know, mainstream bi, Fiat to Bitcoin conversion 1426 01:16:19,740 --> 01:16:23,250 places have not could in a lightning interface. I mean, it 1427 01:16:23,250 --> 01:16:26,970 just doesn't see, there's, it seems fairly low risk to me, I'm 1428 01:16:26,970 --> 01:16:30,000 not sure why that has that it's not a regulatory issue that they 1429 01:16:30,000 --> 01:16:30,840 can't do that. 1430 01:16:31,020 --> 01:16:37,560 I mean, like, it's kind of it really depends, like the 1431 01:16:37,560 --> 01:16:40,890 regulatory issue that you're talking about Israel, where it's 1432 01:16:40,890 --> 01:16:43,350 much worse than the EU, we've had actually a lot harder 1433 01:16:43,350 --> 01:16:47,190 problems with where the the regulators want to know, like, 1434 01:16:47,190 --> 01:16:48,720 every amount that you get, 1435 01:16:48,750 --> 01:16:52,440 I'm FIFA gods, we can't have Bitcoin as an off ramp out of 1436 01:16:53,010 --> 01:16:57,300 prison, you need to know where it came from. And you also need 1437 01:16:57,300 --> 01:17:01,230 to know where it's going. And so on lightning, like if somebody 1438 01:17:01,230 --> 01:17:04,890 is paying an invoice, like when I got paid by Eric wall, 1439 01:17:04,890 --> 01:17:09,990 actually, last night. Like I got the invoice paid, but I posted 1440 01:17:09,990 --> 01:17:13,800 the invoice on Twitter. And so I didn't like really no, of Erica 1441 01:17:13,800 --> 01:17:17,100 paid it. So anyone could have paid but he paid Yeah. And so I 1442 01:17:17,100 --> 01:17:19,590 didn't want to tell him like, hey, the invoice got paid in 1443 01:17:19,590 --> 01:17:21,000 case like in case he wants to? 1444 01:17:21,630 --> 01:17:23,940 Well, but if it's paid, then it's invalid. Use it again. 1445 01:17:23,940 --> 01:17:28,170 Right? But so, so so so he may be thinking, you're full of 1446 01:17:28,170 --> 01:17:30,840 crap, because you said you got it. And he knows that he that 1447 01:17:31,380 --> 01:17:34,650 the invoice failed. So you're just gonna be at each other's 1448 01:17:34,650 --> 01:17:36,930 throats for decades over the years. You just 1449 01:17:36,930 --> 01:17:39,150 paid from one year nose to the other nice, right? That's 1450 01:17:39,150 --> 01:17:39,450 right. 1451 01:17:39,600 --> 01:17:46,440 I don't know. It's like, I got it. Yeah, so so. So yes, there 1452 01:17:46,440 --> 01:17:49,320 is a regulatory burden. But like, there are tons of 1453 01:17:49,320 --> 01:17:51,420 companies who've gotten over it, right? Because like, you know, 1454 01:17:51,420 --> 01:17:55,650 you can you if you're accepting if you're doing withdrawal, and 1455 01:17:55,650 --> 01:17:58,770 you're sending the Bitcoin out, right? Like you have custody of 1456 01:17:58,770 --> 01:18:01,350 it, you can cancel a payment you can have like a blacklist of 1457 01:18:01,350 --> 01:18:04,770 nodes or something like that and say this is not okay. If you're 1458 01:18:04,770 --> 01:18:08,670 receiving Bitcoin that is like a little bit trickier. But 1459 01:18:09,000 --> 01:18:10,170 generally, like, there's already no 1460 01:18:10,170 --> 01:18:12,510 jack masters get over it. And he's like, 20 years old. I 1461 01:18:12,510 --> 01:18:14,100 know. I know. Right? Like, like, this 1462 01:18:14,100 --> 01:18:18,060 thing is there. What did he get visa into help financially and 1463 01:18:18,060 --> 01:18:20,190 also with some regulatory stuff isn't all I 1464 01:18:20,190 --> 01:18:23,310 think it's like, like the, the what he's actually doing is he's 1465 01:18:23,310 --> 01:18:27,030 like live trading the difference like he, it's, you give him 1466 01:18:27,030 --> 01:18:30,720 dollars, but you don't actually own Bitcoin? Right? He's live 1467 01:18:30,720 --> 01:18:33,030 trading the difference in a sending Bitcoin for you. 1468 01:18:34,140 --> 01:18:36,930 I guess the one that bothers me the most is cash app. I mean, 1469 01:18:36,930 --> 01:18:39,300 like jack Dorsey, you would think that he would have that 1470 01:18:39,300 --> 01:18:43,290 thing figured out by now. Yeah, I don't. That's the one that 1471 01:18:43,290 --> 01:18:46,920 boggles my mind is what is that thing, that cash app is like a 1472 01:18:46,920 --> 01:18:49,830 10 headed Hydra of the of ways to move money around? Well, 1473 01:18:49,860 --> 01:18:51,060 because last night, I 1474 01:18:51,060 --> 01:18:53,730 would Yes. And Ryan would know better and doesn't have to say 1475 01:18:53,730 --> 01:18:55,980 anything. It was uncomfortable. I would guess they know that 1476 01:18:55,980 --> 01:19:01,170 they that. Okay. This is the AOL problem. America Online, had 1477 01:19:01,170 --> 01:19:04,440 everything tight was beautiful. It was safe. You've Got Mail, 1478 01:19:04,470 --> 01:19:08,040 everything was fantastic. And then they said, People said, 1479 01:19:08,040 --> 01:19:10,350 Well, we want the internet. We hear something's going on out 1480 01:19:10,350 --> 01:19:12,240 there. And now it's too dangerous, be too dangerous. 1481 01:19:12,270 --> 01:19:15,630 You've Got Mail. And then they finally opened up a little 1482 01:19:15,630 --> 01:19:19,230 portal and said, Okay, you go through here. This is very 1483 01:19:19,230 --> 01:19:22,080 dangerous. It could be weird shit out there at your own risk. 1484 01:19:22,170 --> 01:19:24,960 Six months later, they were a dial up company. And I think 1485 01:19:24,960 --> 01:19:26,070 that's what jack sees. 1486 01:19:27,900 --> 01:19:31,140 I don't disagree with you. I will also say I think he's 1487 01:19:31,140 --> 01:19:34,410 keenly aware that that's a possibility. But I think you'll 1488 01:19:34,410 --> 01:19:40,380 notice, like the latest move that they made, right was 1489 01:19:40,590 --> 01:19:44,640 Elizabeth has said this for a while, is they chose to scale 1490 01:19:44,640 --> 01:19:48,630 via layer SQL, where they made internal cash app transactions 1491 01:19:48,630 --> 01:19:51,660 free, right, which means they just said like in their internal 1492 01:19:51,660 --> 01:19:53,310 SQL database, like one big one. 1493 01:19:54,960 --> 01:19:55,530 Like that. 1494 01:19:56,310 --> 01:19:59,370 This is changing the ledger basic 1495 01:19:59,400 --> 01:20:02,010 which is like you Significantly, like safer 1496 01:20:02,220 --> 01:20:04,740 antithetical to Bitcoin but antithetical, 1497 01:20:04,770 --> 01:20:09,030 right? And so like they could have made each of those a 1498 01:20:09,030 --> 01:20:12,300 lightning transaction. Yeah. But like, you know, there's I think 1499 01:20:12,300 --> 01:20:16,050 that there there are still legitimate, you know, they have 1500 01:20:17,010 --> 01:20:20,160 millions of users and millions of very non technical users, 1501 01:20:20,160 --> 01:20:23,280 they do not they do not want like they've made it a very 1502 01:20:23,280 --> 01:20:26,310 clear point of making all the Bitcoin stuff incredibly simple 1503 01:20:26,340 --> 01:20:29,340 on cash app, I think it's, it's fair to say the lightning is 1504 01:20:29,340 --> 01:20:32,610 still a little too complicated for them. If they wanted to 1505 01:20:32,610 --> 01:20:37,020 prioritize it, and like really make it work and had like high 1506 01:20:37,020 --> 01:20:40,560 demand from the customer base to integrate it, I think it could 1507 01:20:40,560 --> 01:20:45,810 do it. However, still, it's just a fact that the dominant use for 1508 01:20:45,810 --> 01:20:48,510 Bitcoin is buying and holding it, especially in the US, which 1509 01:20:48,510 --> 01:20:51,210 I think is to Dave's point about it being property, right. Like I 1510 01:20:51,210 --> 01:20:51,480 just, 1511 01:20:51,660 --> 01:20:54,840 I just I agree, like, I look at, I look at my cash app, and I 1512 01:20:54,840 --> 01:21:00,180 look at my strike app. And I'm at Dave something and 1513 01:21:00,210 --> 01:21:04,380 overwhelmed both. It just seems like everything is poised to be 1514 01:21:04,380 --> 01:21:07,860 able to just make that thing just 100% right. by me. It looks 1515 01:21:07,860 --> 01:21:10,170 like it looks like mastodon is what it looks like, looks like 1516 01:21:10,170 --> 01:21:11,190 the fediverse. Right, 1517 01:21:11,190 --> 01:21:13,740 I just need to learn how to federate into all of that. 1518 01:21:13,770 --> 01:21:15,840 That's an interesting analogy. That's 1519 01:21:15,840 --> 01:21:17,850 one of the things that, you know, I've been excited about 1520 01:21:17,850 --> 01:21:20,400 for a while is like, it's ridiculous that I can't send 1521 01:21:20,400 --> 01:21:23,940 from Venmo cash app. Right. That's like, that's what 1522 01:21:23,940 --> 01:21:24,660 lightning enables. 1523 01:21:24,690 --> 01:21:27,450 Interestingly enough, I think both of them use plaid as a back 1524 01:21:27,450 --> 01:21:28,560 end and you could actually do it. 1525 01:21:31,050 --> 01:21:32,850 But that's, that's one of the things we're like, yeah, like 1526 01:21:32,850 --> 01:21:35,520 they there is you're absolutely right, that there is like with 1527 01:21:35,520 --> 01:21:37,920 traditional FinTech and enlightening and Bitcoin in 1528 01:21:37,920 --> 01:21:43,380 general, there is just this. There's this incumbency problem, 1529 01:21:43,620 --> 01:21:47,040 where, you know, we're seeing a lot more people pushing the ball 1530 01:21:47,040 --> 01:21:49,830 forward and really innovating on lightning actually 1531 01:21:49,830 --> 01:21:55,560 internationally. The guys at moon wallet in Argentina, like 1532 01:21:55,560 --> 01:21:58,200 they're fantastic, their wallet is great. They have like a ton 1533 01:21:58,200 --> 01:22:00,870 of users using it all the time. The Phoenix 1534 01:22:00,870 --> 01:22:03,900 wallet is also very slick and what I like about them is 1535 01:22:03,900 --> 01:22:05,550 they've just figured out how they're going to make money 1536 01:22:05,580 --> 01:22:08,040 we're charging you this money here this money or this money or 1537 01:22:08,040 --> 01:22:09,840 enjoy is pretty good experience Yep. 1538 01:22:09,930 --> 01:22:12,180 I mean like like and you know jack 1539 01:22:12,330 --> 01:22:14,880 couldn't convince him to do podcasting but you know, that's 1540 01:22:14,880 --> 01:22:16,230 because the French hate me 1541 01:22:16,260 --> 01:22:20,430 Don't come around that okay. Hope so. I think there's Yeah, 1542 01:22:20,430 --> 01:22:21,480 like like it's it's I 1543 01:22:21,480 --> 01:22:23,910 can't let the Israeli show him up. Right. I 1544 01:22:23,910 --> 01:22:27,180 mean, seriously, do another war in the desert people come on 1545 01:22:27,180 --> 01:22:29,850 what's going on with you Frenchies? Yeah, 1546 01:22:29,880 --> 01:22:34,260 there's I think it's I don't know I'm very optimistic it's 1547 01:22:34,260 --> 01:22:37,260 it's a matter of time like the path dependence that it takes to 1548 01:22:37,260 --> 01:22:40,650 actually get there you know, there will be it's one of those 1549 01:22:40,650 --> 01:22:43,230 things where like, there will be kind of pain points here like I 1550 01:22:43,230 --> 01:22:45,600 was saying earlier, there's like obvious to everyone where we 1551 01:22:45,600 --> 01:22:48,750 need more Fiat off ramps, all that is is just an opportunity 1552 01:22:48,750 --> 01:22:52,200 for an entrepreneur to to step in and get a bunch of business 1553 01:22:52,230 --> 01:22:53,130 without a doubt. 1554 01:22:53,250 --> 01:22:56,490 This is such an exciting place for entrepreneurs because you 1555 01:22:56,490 --> 01:23:00,570 can do it at home with your existing PC you know, set up a 1556 01:23:00,570 --> 01:23:03,630 node that wait five days to free to have the blockchain 1557 01:23:03,630 --> 01:23:06,120 synchronize that five days Well, maybe 1558 01:23:06,120 --> 01:23:07,110 you found a Raspberry Pi 1559 01:23:08,730 --> 01:23:11,310 fast SSD well it came shipped with it. That's what that's what 1560 01:23:11,310 --> 01:23:12,090 I liked about that. 1561 01:23:16,380 --> 01:23:17,130 Question. 1562 01:23:18,480 --> 01:23:23,580 What do we do when Bitcoin sucks the entire global financial 1563 01:23:23,580 --> 01:23:28,590 system into the black hole that Bitcoin is? And then the US 1564 01:23:28,590 --> 01:23:31,740 military shows up at lightning labs with their guns? At what 1565 01:23:31,740 --> 01:23:34,530 point? I mean, do we do we circumvent that or no? 1566 01:23:34,620 --> 01:23:35,640 I've got the answer. No, 1567 01:23:35,820 --> 01:23:37,380 thank you. I've 1568 01:23:37,380 --> 01:23:40,200 got the answer to that. You're talking to the guy you're 1569 01:23:40,200 --> 01:23:43,830 talking to the guy who works for a company called lightning labs 1570 01:23:44,880 --> 01:23:47,730 and the CEO his name Elizabeth Stark. 1571 01:23:47,760 --> 01:23:51,660 Oh my god the superheroes That's right. Why are we even worried 1572 01:23:51,660 --> 01:23:52,320 at all 1573 01:23:52,410 --> 01:23:55,110 I don't think they have to worry about the military I got 1574 01:23:55,110 --> 01:23:56,430 everything covered day 1575 01:23:56,520 --> 01:23:59,700 I was wondering why we're arriving at parties suit that he 1576 01:23:59,700 --> 01:24:02,610 flew in and I'm gonna have to come to Alabama right now in 1577 01:24:02,610 --> 01:24:04,320 silence and you know too much 1578 01:24:05,070 --> 01:24:11,880 flash memory stick you know too much that's answered what else 1579 01:24:11,880 --> 01:24:15,090 man? What What, what for the it's I mean, what are you doing 1580 01:24:15,090 --> 01:24:19,050 is is Bitcoin Miami the big thing or what's going on? Where 1581 01:24:19,050 --> 01:24:21,990 are we focusing our energy is just builds build the way we 1582 01:24:21,990 --> 01:24:23,850 have which is fine by me, by the way. 1583 01:24:23,910 --> 01:24:28,500 So I think like my a lot of a lot of the cognitive dissonance 1584 01:24:28,500 --> 01:24:30,660 I think that a lot of people have with with Bitcoin and 1585 01:24:30,660 --> 01:24:32,730 lightning like I hear you hear this all the time is like 1586 01:24:32,730 --> 01:24:37,080 nobody's going to spend their Bitcoin right. And I think what 1587 01:24:37,080 --> 01:24:39,840 I particularly like about what you guys are doing more than 1588 01:24:39,840 --> 01:24:42,120 anything else, is that you're focusing on the other side of 1589 01:24:42,120 --> 01:24:44,700 the equation focusing on the people who want to earn Bitcoin, 1590 01:24:45,060 --> 01:24:49,170 right and, and the people who really want to send it to those 1591 01:24:49,170 --> 01:24:49,860 people exactly. 1592 01:24:50,160 --> 01:24:51,600 But that's the thing is that it's another 1593 01:24:51,600 --> 01:24:52,800 two sided equation isn't 1594 01:24:52,800 --> 01:24:56,130 it is a two sided equation, but like the gravity of the people 1595 01:24:56,130 --> 01:24:58,590 who are saying pay me in Bitcoin, like if they're 1596 01:24:58,590 --> 01:25:01,500 creating valuable content, Their users will figure out a way. 1597 01:25:01,530 --> 01:25:03,720 I just want to just want to say something I'm going to disagree 1598 01:25:03,720 --> 01:25:06,510 with you. Okay? the gravity of what we're doing is being pushed 1599 01:25:06,510 --> 01:25:11,280 by listeners. Really? Fuck yeah. That's how that's how podcast 1600 01:25:11,280 --> 01:25:15,630 marketing works. Of course, we have, you know, 10 guys or gals 1601 01:25:15,630 --> 01:25:19,770 who go, Oh, I totally want this. But what happens is, and because 1602 01:25:19,770 --> 01:25:24,120 I've been doing this from the beginning, and people will come 1603 01:25:24,120 --> 01:25:26,610 to me and say, well, they're listening. I've been listening 1604 01:25:26,610 --> 01:25:29,520 to this show. They always say, you should listen to this guy. 1605 01:25:29,790 --> 01:25:32,430 He has something interesting. There's this cool technology 1606 01:25:32,430 --> 01:25:36,420 podcasters are using they are the true push, or the gravity, 1607 01:25:36,420 --> 01:25:41,160 as you say, of podcasting, because this is not a listener 1608 01:25:41,160 --> 01:25:47,640 relationship. It is a it's tribes is so appropriate, 1609 01:25:47,670 --> 01:25:51,300 because that's what we have. We've gone into media tribes, 1610 01:25:51,300 --> 01:25:54,840 you see it on mainstream, you have the msnbc tribe, and you 1611 01:25:54,840 --> 01:25:58,800 have little tribes amongst that. And here we have. And I really 1612 01:25:59,010 --> 01:26:01,770 noticed this with Joe Rogan back, you know, a year ago, 1613 01:26:01,770 --> 01:26:06,330 March, we had the Joe Rogan tribe who were exposed to me 1614 01:26:06,330 --> 01:26:09,900 there, and then they came over to the no agenda, tribe. They're 1615 01:26:10,170 --> 01:26:14,610 members of both. Yeah. And then they spread all these things. 1616 01:26:14,610 --> 01:26:18,630 And then Tom Woods came into this tribe. So that's all all 1617 01:26:18,750 --> 01:26:22,290 with you would say user. I just prefer to say producer because 1618 01:26:22,320 --> 01:26:26,310 that's what they turn out to me in this relationship. So that's 1619 01:26:26,310 --> 01:26:28,740 what I'm seeing, but not discounting what you're saying 1620 01:26:28,740 --> 01:26:33,120 about that pool being there. But it's, it was Stefan Molyneux, 1621 01:26:33,150 --> 01:26:36,930 who was, you know, a controversial guy. his listeners 1622 01:26:37,320 --> 01:26:40,500 kept telling him is you've got to get on this thing. You've got 1623 01:26:40,500 --> 01:26:43,590 to get on this thing. He sends me an email says, hey, it's Adam 1624 01:26:43,590 --> 01:26:46,080 and Stefan. We never spoken before. But what's this 1625 01:26:46,080 --> 01:26:49,980 lightning this lightning thing? And so before you know it, 1626 01:26:50,520 --> 01:26:53,250 listener of he's in New Hampshire has helped set him up. 1627 01:26:53,490 --> 01:26:55,980 Wow. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. 1628 01:26:56,010 --> 01:27:00,180 So that right, you're just like, Whoa, is that in that regard? 1629 01:27:00,180 --> 01:27:05,340 It's like Venmo cuz I had never everybody like you. It's the 1630 01:27:05,340 --> 01:27:09,090 people who want to pay you that force you to adopt a certain 1631 01:27:09,090 --> 01:27:12,480 technology, because real quick, real quick, everybody said, you 1632 01:27:12,480 --> 01:27:15,540 know, do you want eight? Do you take Venmo? Do you take Venmo? 1633 01:27:15,540 --> 01:27:16,740 Do you take Venmo? It's like No, 1634 01:27:16,770 --> 01:27:19,680 that's okay. Tron rolled out. People got like, you got to get 1635 01:27:19,680 --> 01:27:21,750 Patreon. You got to get a Patreon, go to patreon or 1636 01:27:21,750 --> 01:27:22,800 Patreon, go to patreon. 1637 01:27:24,000 --> 01:27:27,180 Well, let's just get in. That's, that's super interesting, 1638 01:27:27,180 --> 01:27:30,450 because like, one thing I always have in the back of my mind is 1639 01:27:32,310 --> 01:27:37,980 when is the time to go and do another? Bitcoin, like, merchant 1640 01:27:37,980 --> 01:27:41,040 adoption, push, like, like brick and mortar? Like there's this, 1641 01:27:41,040 --> 01:27:43,890 you know, in 2013, there was a huge push amongst the Bitcoin 1642 01:27:43,890 --> 01:27:47,640 community for circular economy, merchant adoption, like we need 1643 01:27:47,640 --> 01:27:50,970 to get, you know, Academy and Dick's Sporting Goods accepting 1644 01:27:50,970 --> 01:27:54,540 Bitcoin and like, that's when like, it'll be the time, right? 1645 01:27:54,780 --> 01:27:57,090 But like, of course, on chain, Bitcoin isn't a payment 1646 01:27:57,090 --> 01:27:59,340 protocol. Like, it wasn't really designed for that it wasn't 1647 01:27:59,340 --> 01:28:01,860 really built for it. So it's like, one thing I kind of always 1648 01:28:01,860 --> 01:28:06,270 have in the back of my mind is like, is now the time to go and 1649 01:28:06,300 --> 01:28:09,480 get a bunch of people and get the community to go out like, 1650 01:28:09,690 --> 01:28:13,230 your bars, or restaurants, or sporting goods stores, you know, 1651 01:28:13,230 --> 01:28:16,560 wherever you spend money, and to say, why aren't you accepting 1652 01:28:16,560 --> 01:28:18,570 lightning? I want to pay you in Bitcoin on opinion. Bitcoin. I 1653 01:28:18,570 --> 01:28:19,920 want a penguin like this. Yeah, 1654 01:28:19,980 --> 01:28:22,290 I think Ryan, I think that's, I think that's happening right 1655 01:28:22,290 --> 01:28:26,880 now. But I mean, I think what you see with podcasting is is 1656 01:28:26,880 --> 01:28:29,490 that happening? Yeah, because what you're going to end up with 1657 01:28:29,520 --> 01:28:34,110 is, at some point, like, you know, I'll use the mouse app, 1658 01:28:34,380 --> 01:28:38,280 wallet, and I can just check what's coming into my node. I 1659 01:28:38,280 --> 01:28:40,350 mean, at some point, I got a bunch of lightning sitting 1660 01:28:40,350 --> 01:28:44,220 there. And when, whenever I want to refill my wallet on things or 1661 01:28:44,220 --> 01:28:47,490 breeze, you know, I'll just shoot some issues and lightning 1662 01:28:47,490 --> 01:28:51,000 stuff over there. And at some point, I'm going to have, you 1663 01:28:51,000 --> 01:28:54,930 know, some decent chunk of money sitting there. And I'm going to 1664 01:28:54,930 --> 01:28:57,810 want to start paying my brother in law, who does my taxes, I'm 1665 01:28:57,810 --> 01:29:00,630 going to start paying him and I will say, hey, do you have 1666 01:29:00,630 --> 01:29:05,490 strike? And then it's like, it's going to, I don't think it'll 1667 01:29:05,490 --> 01:29:09,360 ever add, there's no push into merchant services, necessarily 1668 01:29:09,360 --> 01:29:12,750 this point to make that traction happen, is going to be person to 1669 01:29:12,750 --> 01:29:16,860 person Money, money transfers, just like Venmo where you're, 1670 01:29:17,250 --> 01:29:20,130 where your sister in law says, Hey, do you have Venmo? And 1671 01:29:20,130 --> 01:29:23,400 maybe she says, Hey, do you have strike? Or hey, do you have, you 1672 01:29:23,400 --> 01:29:26,460 know, can you take a lightning payment? And here's an invoice. 1673 01:29:26,490 --> 01:29:31,380 I mean, like, I don't, I think that the podcasting stuff is the 1674 01:29:31,380 --> 01:29:34,470 beginning of something that creates that and self 1675 01:29:34,470 --> 01:29:35,400 perpetuates. 1676 01:29:35,669 --> 01:29:36,569 I agree with you on that. 1677 01:29:36,749 --> 01:29:42,749 Yep. proposal. Shoot for Austin. Soon to be the crypto capital of 1678 01:29:42,749 --> 01:29:43,739 the universe Bitcoin 1679 01:29:43,740 --> 01:29:47,760 capital universe. This is the Bitcoin industry, not the crypto 1680 01:29:47,760 --> 01:29:48,180 industry. 1681 01:29:48,420 --> 01:29:48,930 Yes. 1682 01:29:49,860 --> 01:29:52,860 I'm with you. I'm a little I'm a little I'm a little taken aback 1683 01:29:52,860 --> 01:29:55,440 because I'm big into alliteration, so I have to 1684 01:29:55,440 --> 01:29:56,370 figure out 1685 01:29:57,810 --> 01:29:58,410 the B 1686 01:29:59,400 --> 01:30:00,540 when bubble, 1687 01:30:01,650 --> 01:30:03,630 no bad connotation not quite that 1688 01:30:04,890 --> 01:30:10,590 Bonanza. How about this, I will gladly get a few friends and I 1689 01:30:10,590 --> 01:30:17,010 will personally put a 5% of my my lightning earnings into an 1690 01:30:17,010 --> 01:30:20,400 Austin node for the homeless, which are people also known as 1691 01:30:20,400 --> 01:30:24,030 experiencing homelessness, which is being completely mismanaged 1692 01:30:24,030 --> 01:30:28,560 by by city council and by Austin and by a bunch of dickheads. And 1693 01:30:28,890 --> 01:30:32,100 so one thing I have dealt a lot with the homeless in Austin, and 1694 01:30:32,130 --> 01:30:34,410 you know that we have community first village, and we have a lot 1695 01:30:34,410 --> 01:30:37,380 of different great programs that I think do work, when doesn't 1696 01:30:37,380 --> 01:30:40,440 work is when you and I drove by on East Riverside just minutes 1697 01:30:40,440 --> 01:30:43,710 ago, they all had, they all have smartphones. I'd like to 1698 01:30:43,710 --> 01:30:50,100 reintroduce faucets. I'd like to have people be on a subscription 1699 01:30:50,100 --> 01:30:52,500 so you can get a portion could we just going to throw money at 1700 01:30:52,500 --> 01:30:55,440 these people? But instead of saying here's your free hotel 1701 01:30:55,440 --> 01:30:59,190 room, you know, here's Yeah, and we can also route your 1702 01:30:59,190 --> 01:31:01,290 disability, we'll help you with that. Get that into your 1703 01:31:01,290 --> 01:31:04,710 lightning wallet, you check into your into your homeless hotel, 1704 01:31:04,710 --> 01:31:07,830 which is what we're doing in Austin. But you scan the QR code 1705 01:31:07,830 --> 01:31:11,760 and you're back in society with it can be small, you know, this 1706 01:31:11,760 --> 01:31:14,310 is why it's so cool. Couldn't be variable, small amounts. No 1707 01:31:14,310 --> 01:31:17,940 one's really in the middle. No, no dickhead. Like VSA is making 1708 01:31:17,940 --> 01:31:24,780 money off of the whole thing, like they do with snap. And then 1709 01:31:24,780 --> 01:31:28,740 I think you'll see vendors who will feel more comfortable with 1710 01:31:28,740 --> 01:31:31,500 people because here's some proof that I have. And there's no 1711 01:31:31,500 --> 01:31:33,810 there's contracts we can make. And there's payments that we can 1712 01:31:33,810 --> 01:31:36,600 agree upon. And so maybe this person doesn't have the exact 1713 01:31:36,600 --> 01:31:41,280 profile that I would want as a renter or a patron or someone 1714 01:31:41,280 --> 01:31:44,700 buying something else but then you can really start an economy 1715 01:31:45,180 --> 01:31:50,550 where we're not just pissing money away you can and by the 1716 01:31:50,550 --> 01:31:53,340 way, this is a problem that would work for many places in 1717 01:31:53,340 --> 01:31:54,690 the United States and around 1718 01:31:54,690 --> 01:31:56,250 the world places that are increasing. 1719 01:31:56,280 --> 01:31:59,370 Yeah, is that something that I mean it's a political thing 1720 01:31:59,370 --> 01:32:02,880 possibly it's a lot of work but um I mean, 1721 01:32:02,910 --> 01:32:05,550 I don't know it's very interesting because I'm yet to 1722 01:32:05,550 --> 01:32:05,730 see 1723 01:32:05,760 --> 01:32:08,820 a good idea guy man i don't i don't implement this shit I got 1724 01:32:08,820 --> 01:32:10,620 no Dave Dave When can we build this 1725 01:32:12,600 --> 01:32:15,120 as I get things get back to work. 1726 01:32:15,570 --> 01:32:17,910 But is that is that missing something like that? I would 1727 01:32:17,910 --> 01:32:18,120 think 1728 01:32:18,120 --> 01:32:20,700 so. Because I think like you know, that's that's one thing 1729 01:32:20,700 --> 01:32:21,000 that 1730 01:32:22,320 --> 01:32:26,910 I by the way any podcaster or content creator but in our world 1731 01:32:26,910 --> 01:32:29,550 podcaster can say you know what, that's really cool. I want to 1732 01:32:29,550 --> 01:32:34,440 add a 5% value block to the to the Los Angeles node ID or the 1733 01:32:34,680 --> 01:32:35,160 video 1734 01:32:35,730 --> 01:32:37,830 it's really interesting idea because because one thing one 1735 01:32:37,830 --> 01:32:41,790 thing Louisville you know, whatever, Paul Paul from Spanx 1736 01:32:42,030 --> 01:32:46,080 don't the whole stack works thing is fantastic. He chastised 1737 01:32:46,080 --> 01:32:49,890 me a couple times about focusing on kind of like the exchanges 1738 01:32:49,890 --> 01:32:53,370 and the big kind of like supply side you know the big market 1739 01:32:53,370 --> 01:32:56,130 remittances all that sort of stuff and he's like no like 1740 01:32:56,430 --> 01:32:58,680 people that are gonna adopt this technology first are going to 1741 01:32:58,680 --> 01:33:01,650 people that absolutely need it poor people, but you know 1742 01:33:01,800 --> 01:33:04,410 podcasters poor people 1743 01:33:06,900 --> 01:33:08,580 are poor. They can't receive money 1744 01:33:08,580 --> 01:33:12,210 from their audience right now. Right and and his stack workers 1745 01:33:12,210 --> 01:33:15,570 they'd like to get paid for their work right now. And you're 1746 01:33:15,570 --> 01:33:18,150 desperate for other things. And here's another group of people 1747 01:33:18,150 --> 01:33:20,550 that desperate for some connection, just word financial. 1748 01:33:20,670 --> 01:33:23,010 We're trying to do that. We've we've already talked about this 1749 01:33:23,040 --> 01:33:26,640 new we want to Dave we're talking about incentivizing 1750 01:33:26,640 --> 01:33:30,540 stack workers to find duplicate feeds in the in the end Yes. 1751 01:33:30,750 --> 01:33:33,420 That's a real problem. They can be solved it Do you know that 1752 01:33:33,420 --> 01:33:35,370 I'm willing to put money to yeah, 1753 01:33:35,370 --> 01:33:38,310 oh, yeah. We'll put money into that for sure. Yeah, for sure. 1754 01:33:38,460 --> 01:33:42,090 That there's this whole push now in you know, Congress with AOC 1755 01:33:42,090 --> 01:33:44,670 and all this stuff about putting, getting letting people 1756 01:33:44,670 --> 01:33:47,370 have checking accounts at the post office and all that digital 1757 01:33:47,370 --> 01:33:48,360 dollar that's that's 1758 01:33:48,390 --> 01:33:50,340 the devil down baby. That's 1759 01:33:50,340 --> 01:33:52,200 what I'm saying. Like, there's this whole thing for the 1760 01:33:52,200 --> 01:33:55,320 unbanked there's like this big term just going around now. No, 1761 01:33:55,380 --> 01:33:59,040 I mean, this Lenny, you We all know that Bitcoin allows you to 1762 01:33:59,040 --> 01:34:01,860 be your own bank, the meetup just make people their own bank. 1763 01:34:01,890 --> 01:34:05,160 Yeah, absolutely. No. 100% Yeah, I totally agree with that. And I 1764 01:34:05,160 --> 01:34:08,730 think it's now might be the time 1765 01:34:09,660 --> 01:34:12,510 well, you know, if lightning labs has any lobbyists or 1766 01:34:12,510 --> 01:34:14,670 something or whatever you guys do over there to make because 1767 01:34:14,670 --> 01:34:18,360 you got to do more than just make great code. You got some 1768 01:34:18,480 --> 01:34:21,180 you got something on what's going on there for you. But we 1769 01:34:21,180 --> 01:34:24,150 have one we have Mackenzie Kelly here in Austin, who's now City 1770 01:34:24,150 --> 01:34:27,180 Council. I don't know much about her except she listens to my 1771 01:34:27,180 --> 01:34:31,080 show. So pre approved. Yeah. Yeah, good enough, good enough 1772 01:34:32,190 --> 01:34:35,370 that you want to fix the homeless that were the quote 1773 01:34:35,370 --> 01:34:38,340 unquote, camping ban. You know, he wants to find a better 1774 01:34:38,340 --> 01:34:43,500 solution because that's clearly not working for anybody. Little 1775 01:34:43,500 --> 01:34:48,120 guys in that episode, and manage it to me Listen, I mean, even 1776 01:34:48,120 --> 01:34:50,730 just we park money with unchained and then you can use 1777 01:34:50,730 --> 01:34:54,240 that to leverage and give people some liquidity. It's all about 1778 01:34:54,240 --> 01:34:57,300 the liquidity. And thank you for bringing up the unbanked because 1779 01:34:57,300 --> 01:35:00,900 yes, the government scariest words. From the government here 1780 01:35:00,900 --> 01:35:03,900 to help are coming, you know, yeah, they're coming in is going 1781 01:35:03,930 --> 01:35:07,500 is going to be that level of control where the freedom is 1782 01:35:07,500 --> 01:35:11,400 here. And there's and there's a ton of merchants and vendors in 1783 01:35:11,400 --> 01:35:14,130 Austin who are very 1784 01:35:14,160 --> 01:35:17,490 freedom oriented that way. And they and they really they keenly 1785 01:35:17,490 --> 01:35:20,040 understand the problem they owe these people, these people in 1786 01:35:20,040 --> 01:35:22,440 our companies are not monsters, right? The people who are 1787 01:35:22,440 --> 01:35:24,270 temporarily experiencing homelessness, I 1788 01:35:24,840 --> 01:35:27,780 know some some not even temporarily, and some for some, 1789 01:35:27,780 --> 01:35:31,320 it's a lifestyle, also cool. But we got to figure out a better 1790 01:35:31,320 --> 01:35:33,990 way. So it works with everybody. And if that means that we need 1791 01:35:33,990 --> 01:35:39,900 to get what I learned from from community first village, which 1792 01:35:39,900 --> 01:35:43,710 is just phenomenal. This is what types of people are noticed the 1793 01:35:43,710 --> 01:35:47,220 Tiny Homes, and the people there do pay rent, but they help you 1794 01:35:47,250 --> 01:35:51,960 it's 75 bucks a month, 100 bucks a month. It's 250 for a cabin, 1795 01:35:52,170 --> 01:35:54,810 you get shared kitchen. You know what, there's not a there's no 1796 01:35:54,810 --> 01:35:57,180 fighting, there's no there's problems, but they solve it as a 1797 01:35:57,180 --> 01:36:00,570 community, not by calling in the cops. Yeah. Which is, by the 1798 01:36:00,570 --> 01:36:04,920 way, one of the things I love most about Bitcoin, is it It 1799 01:36:04,920 --> 01:36:07,740 removes something we've become very comfortable with in our 1800 01:36:07,740 --> 01:36:10,590 lives in the United States is we always have a middleman. Yeah, 1801 01:36:10,590 --> 01:36:12,900 we don't go over to the neighbor anymore and say, Hey, man, turn 1802 01:36:12,900 --> 01:36:17,490 it down. No, we call the cops we call, you know, whoever it is. I 1803 01:36:17,490 --> 01:36:20,070 don't like what you said to my kid at school. I'm suing the 1804 01:36:20,070 --> 01:36:24,420 school get it, you know, that's, that is so unAmerican, it's 1805 01:36:24,450 --> 01:36:29,430 Americanism, actually, that, you know, by removing the middleman 1806 01:36:29,430 --> 01:36:35,070 and all these different things, and, and making it a community 1807 01:36:35,070 --> 01:36:37,680 effort, which is what people who are homeless have lost their 1808 01:36:37,680 --> 01:36:40,740 community. That's the number one reason people become homeless 1809 01:36:40,770 --> 01:36:46,620 because they have dramatic family loss. And then you know 1810 01:36:46,620 --> 01:36:49,740 what, it doesn't take long, you know, for four weeks to months, 1811 01:36:49,740 --> 01:36:52,080 you're out on the street, you know, you're living in your car. 1812 01:36:52,110 --> 01:36:55,020 Yeah. And then it's downhill from there. So it's just a 1813 01:36:55,020 --> 01:36:58,710 matter of getting a community back, we have so many members 1814 01:36:58,710 --> 01:37:03,150 say 15 different producers of the show who are experiencing 1815 01:37:03,150 --> 01:37:07,680 homelessness at various times. But they have all caught on to 1816 01:37:07,680 --> 01:37:12,420 the satoshis. Because they're very literate, they understand 1817 01:37:12,420 --> 01:37:14,250 phones and all that stuff. And they're like, Hey, wait a 1818 01:37:14,250 --> 01:37:15,450 minute. There's something here. 1819 01:37:15,810 --> 01:37:20,910 Yeah. So one unique life experience I have is, you know, 1820 01:37:21,150 --> 01:37:25,020 bought this house just not too far away from you. And directly 1821 01:37:25,020 --> 01:37:29,610 across the street. I can it's like the view out of my kitchen 1822 01:37:29,610 --> 01:37:34,500 window right over my sink when I'm doing dishes. is not like 1823 01:37:34,500 --> 01:37:37,860 the homeless person tent. But it is like a halfway house for 1824 01:37:37,860 --> 01:37:39,090 veterans in particular. 1825 01:37:39,390 --> 01:37:42,330 I know exactly what you're right next to the fire station. Of 1826 01:37:42,330 --> 01:37:43,200 course, of course. 1827 01:37:43,290 --> 01:37:45,600 So I talked to these guys, you know, like every weekend, right? 1828 01:37:45,600 --> 01:37:49,530 These are normal, smart, intelligent, educated people. 1829 01:37:49,770 --> 01:37:53,940 Right? That just somehow gotten screwed. Right? One way or 1830 01:37:53,940 --> 01:37:56,340 another, there's a million different stories. Somehow 1831 01:37:56,340 --> 01:37:59,700 they've gotten screwed, and they're just like, I don't know, 1832 01:37:59,700 --> 01:38:01,740 like, you know, they, they're, they're all trying to pick 1833 01:38:01,740 --> 01:38:04,560 themselves back up. You know, they all have kind of reference. 1834 01:38:04,560 --> 01:38:06,990 I'm like intimately familiar with these people. And they just 1835 01:38:06,990 --> 01:38:10,560 like, all I need is just kind of just a little help. Right? 1836 01:38:10,740 --> 01:38:14,700 But help with responsibility, if you can give them true freedom. 1837 01:38:15,060 --> 01:38:19,380 Austin, Austin city and the state of Texas is not designed 1838 01:38:19,410 --> 01:38:23,190 by any any means to give people freedom, more freedom than most, 1839 01:38:23,370 --> 01:38:27,300 but the financial freedom. And I know sounds really abstract and 1840 01:38:27,300 --> 01:38:30,210 I'm getting real preachy, but I really believe that that makes a 1841 01:38:30,210 --> 01:38:32,970 difference. Just like they need community they need freedom to 1842 01:38:32,970 --> 01:38:36,930 understand that I'm not tethered to that. And that I can do 1843 01:38:36,930 --> 01:38:39,930 things myself and I don't have to go to the post office and 1844 01:38:39,930 --> 01:38:41,280 stand in line because 1845 01:38:41,280 --> 01:38:46,230 that drives those dogs a million times even even the regs like 1846 01:38:46,230 --> 01:38:49,920 you know, I'm sure people that run the actual house itself or 1847 01:38:49,920 --> 01:38:52,710 two people but even the regs there. These guys are like I'm 1848 01:38:52,710 --> 01:38:55,740 not a four year old, right right. Like I can handle myself 1849 01:38:55,740 --> 01:38:58,080 they wouldn't even let them have a barbecue the other day or 1850 01:38:58,080 --> 01:38:59,790 whatever holiday stay at my place 1851 01:38:59,790 --> 01:39:03,240 take some stats you know stake some SATs for in case you go 1852 01:39:03,240 --> 01:39:05,700 nuts and I'll give that back to you you know we can do that with 1853 01:39:05,700 --> 01:39:08,340 a contract whatever it sounds like like a swing strive don't 1854 01:39:08,340 --> 01:39:09,360 spam my house bro. 1855 01:39:13,560 --> 01:39:15,540 There you go. Bitcoin fixes homelessness. 1856 01:39:15,839 --> 01:39:18,839 They've got a beautiful, no, that would be beautiful. And you 1857 01:39:18,839 --> 01:39:21,029 give you know, you free merchant services you get you know, 1858 01:39:21,029 --> 01:39:23,699 partner with somebody like river, I guess is a river that 1859 01:39:23,699 --> 01:39:24,119 you're talking about. 1860 01:39:24,570 --> 01:39:27,240 Either at the river or on chain run chain has been looking for a 1861 01:39:27,240 --> 01:39:30,330 reason to get into the lightning space for a while. 1862 01:39:30,360 --> 01:39:33,570 Yeah. In my brain, you know, you bring in say, Well, you know, if 1863 01:39:33,570 --> 01:39:35,910 you're going to be a merchant that participates in this in 1864 01:39:35,910 --> 01:39:38,490 this system, we'll you know, we'll set you up to set up a 1865 01:39:38,490 --> 01:39:40,830 node and we'll do your financial services for you. And 1866 01:39:41,760 --> 01:39:44,880 I'm sorry, you you can't see his face day because we triggered 1867 01:39:44,880 --> 01:39:47,580 something in Ryan. He's awesome. a whole different dimension. I 1868 01:39:47,580 --> 01:39:51,660 can see it he's like or maybe it's just like, I want another 1869 01:39:51,660 --> 01:39:52,980 beer. I don't know which one is it? 1870 01:39:54,330 --> 01:39:55,350 column, a little column. We 1871 01:39:55,350 --> 01:39:58,350 got to wrap this up. So this has been very different episode from 1872 01:39:58,350 --> 01:40:00,300 what we've ever done, but I really appreciate it. Could you 1873 01:40:00,300 --> 01:40:02,670 give us some insight into, you know, a lot of stuff that we 1874 01:40:02,670 --> 01:40:05,910 don't understand. And just the general vision and you 1875 01:40:05,910 --> 01:40:09,510 represent, you know, the AI in this case, you represent an 1876 01:40:09,510 --> 01:40:13,890 entire movement, which is really nice. And it's and it's great to 1877 01:40:13,890 --> 01:40:15,240 have you almost next door, man, we 1878 01:40:15,240 --> 01:40:16,140 should hang out more often. We 1879 01:40:16,140 --> 01:40:18,210 really should I it's an absolute pleasure to be on here, guys. 1880 01:40:18,210 --> 01:40:20,430 Really appreciate it. Dave, you know, we missed you in the 1881 01:40:20,430 --> 01:40:21,600 studio today for sure. 1882 01:40:22,320 --> 01:40:24,390 Oh, yeah. Y'all are drinking beer and all this kind of stuff. 1883 01:40:24,390 --> 01:40:28,770 I'm just sitting here in my half assed studio with my laptop on 1884 01:40:28,770 --> 01:40:29,820 my cardboard box. But 1885 01:40:29,820 --> 01:40:32,880 hold on a second. You do have that brand new spankin Db x 1886 01:40:32,910 --> 01:40:34,290 compressor limiter noise gate? 1887 01:40:34,320 --> 01:40:36,960 Oh, yeah, I got blinky lights. I got lights. 1888 01:40:38,220 --> 01:40:39,780 Like a pro? We will 1889 01:40:39,840 --> 01:40:43,230 thank some of our value for value. Do you have anything for 1890 01:40:43,230 --> 01:40:45,480 today? Or is that coming out of sequence? You want to do that? 1891 01:40:45,990 --> 01:40:46,860 On the next show? 1892 01:40:47,039 --> 01:40:49,439 I think I've got I had a couple but I think I'm just gonna save 1893 01:40:49,439 --> 01:40:50,219 them. Okay, excellent. 1894 01:40:50,280 --> 01:40:54,810 Yeah. But, of course, you can support us by going to podcast 1895 01:40:54,810 --> 01:40:57,960 index.org scroll to the bottom, and we get the big red Donate 1896 01:40:57,960 --> 01:41:01,500 button cuz, you know, yellows for pussies. It's red, red, red 1897 01:41:01,500 --> 01:41:02,280 makes it happen. 1898 01:41:03,119 --> 01:41:04,529 Yeah, yellows, and DS or 1899 01:41:05,640 --> 01:41:09,510 DS are solely for pussies. So we'll be back next week with 1900 01:41:09,510 --> 01:41:12,540 another board meeting podcasting. 2.0. Dave, thank you 1901 01:41:12,540 --> 01:41:13,110 very much, man. 1902 01:41:13,980 --> 01:41:15,420 It's great. Great talk to you, Ron. 1903 01:41:15,570 --> 01:41:17,520 great talking to you as well. Okay, before all the great work 1904 01:41:17,520 --> 01:41:19,350 you're doing. Likewise. 1905 01:41:20,760 --> 01:41:23,280 We'll be back next week with another edition of podcasting. 1906 01:41:23,280 --> 01:41:26,910 2.0 bringing into the board meeting for podcasting. news.org 1907 01:41:44,010 --> 01:41:48,600 You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 visit podcast 1908 01:41:48,630 --> 01:41:51,360 index.com. For more information.