1 00:00:00,599 --> 00:00:05,699 podcasting 2.0 for March 26 2021, Episode 30 with a 2 00:00:05,699 --> 00:00:07,409 digital abolitionists 3 00:00:12,990 --> 00:00:14,940 plant that flag while we still can, 4 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:16,380 hello everybody 5 00:00:16,380 --> 00:00:20,760 Friday once again time for afford meaning of podcasting 2.0 6 00:00:21,660 --> 00:00:26,160 and everything going on at podcast index.org the podcast 7 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:29,670 namespace you name it. It's a beautiful day it's Adam Curry 8 00:00:29,670 --> 00:00:33,480 here in Austin, Texas. And in Alabama, the boy wonder of 9 00:00:33,480 --> 00:00:35,250 boosting my friend on the other end. 10 00:00:41,250 --> 00:00:43,470 Thought you were gonna go with like low hanging fruit. I 11 00:00:43,470 --> 00:00:45,990 thought you're gonna go with the flapping in the breeze. 12 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:51,750 No, no, no, no, no, no. You aren't you are. You are totally 13 00:00:51,750 --> 00:00:53,340 the boy wonder of boosting days. 14 00:00:56,460 --> 00:01:01,980 This is a beautiful day sunshine for once in like two weeks. No 15 00:01:01,980 --> 00:01:02,850 tornadoes. 16 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:05,220 Well, hold on a second cuz you know you're in Alabama and you 17 00:01:05,220 --> 00:01:06,720 had tornadoes last night, right? 18 00:01:07,290 --> 00:01:10,710 Oh, yeah. Five people down here. Up in North Alabama. Holy crap. 19 00:01:11,100 --> 00:01:14,460 Yeah, this was like normal fare to you guys is like, Ah, it's 20 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:16,980 this time of year. And this is what happens. 21 00:01:17,370 --> 00:01:20,400 Yeah, I mean, every we have two tornado seasons here. Yeah, 22 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:24,660 March, April and November, a little bit of December. But I 23 00:01:24,660 --> 00:01:27,360 mean, it's every year, it's just, it's just every year, but 24 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:32,220 he knows the protocol. In it's typically only typically only 25 00:01:32,220 --> 00:01:35,070 bad if you have if you're if you're rural and don't have good 26 00:01:35,070 --> 00:01:38,100 access to, you know, television, radio, that kind of thing, 27 00:01:38,100 --> 00:01:38,550 right? 28 00:01:38,790 --> 00:01:41,790 You get the big giant voice system. Does that come on and 29 00:01:41,790 --> 00:01:43,050 tell everybody to be careful? 30 00:01:43,499 --> 00:01:46,499 It does. And that's essentially a point of contention. It's not 31 00:01:46,499 --> 00:01:50,879 the voice the tornado siren sound like this? Yes. Yeah, 32 00:01:50,879 --> 00:01:51,269 that's it. 33 00:01:52,860 --> 00:01:55,740 This is actually I think this is from Japan. This one. 34 00:01:58,830 --> 00:01:59,460 From Japan. 35 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,130 That's the tsunami tsunami 36 00:02:02,130 --> 00:02:03,870 warning. Yeah. Tsunami. I think you're right. 37 00:02:04,110 --> 00:02:07,650 We got that. And that's actually been a bone of contention for a 38 00:02:07,650 --> 00:02:11,700 long time is it's county wide. So when a tornado if a tornado 39 00:02:11,700 --> 00:02:15,270 just barely clips the edge of a county. Yeah, it goes a siren 40 00:02:15,270 --> 00:02:19,050 everywhere. Right. Like, oh, crap, you know, it could be like 41 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:22,680 350 miles away from me. Anyway, 42 00:02:22,860 --> 00:02:26,580 well, glad you're okay. We have tornadoes here as well. Although 43 00:02:26,610 --> 00:02:30,660 not an Austin Hill Country kind of kind of knocks them flat. So 44 00:02:30,660 --> 00:02:33,540 don't get too much. But it's been bad. It's been bad around 45 00:02:33,540 --> 00:02:34,890 here. We had other crap. 46 00:02:35,670 --> 00:02:37,050 Yeah, y'all got a lot of stuff we 47 00:02:37,050 --> 00:02:40,740 worry about. We just freeze to death while you guys are getting 48 00:02:40,740 --> 00:02:41,910 blown away, you know, 49 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:44,640 in your water goes away. Oh, well. minor 50 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:48,479 detail. Yeah. minor detail. Wow. I mean, quite awake. 51 00:02:49,830 --> 00:02:50,910 Mr. Jones? 52 00:02:51,900 --> 00:02:52,410 A few things. 53 00:02:52,860 --> 00:02:56,310 Yes. Well, we warned everybody and I think we were warning 54 00:02:56,310 --> 00:03:02,580 ourselves that breeze would drop. And they did and Wow. What 55 00:03:02,580 --> 00:03:03,390 an impact. 56 00:03:03,509 --> 00:03:05,129 Yeah. Seriously. 57 00:03:05,550 --> 00:03:10,020 Prop props. And thanks, upfront to podcast Business Journal. Who 58 00:03:10,410 --> 00:03:13,740 gave us a nice, a nice little blurb there. It's interesting. 59 00:03:13,770 --> 00:03:19,620 I've yet to have one person of the any press mainstream or 60 00:03:19,650 --> 00:03:21,120 otherwise to reach out to me. 61 00:03:22,110 --> 00:03:26,970 Yeah, yes. The ad Ron emailed me yesterday in his want to get he 62 00:03:26,970 --> 00:03:29,280 didn't use it for any kind of, they'd already written it up, 63 00:03:29,310 --> 00:03:30,960 right. But he was like, Hey, we are going to talk about some 64 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:34,410 sort of show tomorrow. And you know, I guess he's one to kind 65 00:03:34,410 --> 00:03:38,040 of get the lowdown. But he did reach out and heard from email. 66 00:03:38,039 --> 00:03:40,919 But in general, it's always it's just always baffling to me. 67 00:03:42,119 --> 00:03:44,579 Okay, all right. Well, you're writing stories, people are 68 00:03:44,579 --> 00:03:47,669 writing brightened posts everywhere, but no one has asked 69 00:03:47,669 --> 00:03:52,229 anything. And Wow, I've learned so much. First, let me give some 70 00:03:52,229 --> 00:03:55,589 numbers right off the bat, just to tell everybody why I'm so 71 00:03:55,619 --> 00:04:02,249 damn excited. So my podcaster wallet. And this is I mean, I've 72 00:04:02,249 --> 00:04:04,919 no idea what's out there now. So we have Sphinx chat, which has 73 00:04:04,919 --> 00:04:08,219 always been a steady stream, I think that I was making was a 74 00:04:08,219 --> 00:04:14,009 Dave about two or $3 a day maybe it's a switch from anything that 75 00:04:14,009 --> 00:04:18,899 was coming in streaming from swings chat. And now mind you, 76 00:04:19,199 --> 00:04:23,819 that is about 45% of whatever payment is being sent. Because 77 00:04:24,149 --> 00:04:28,079 all of my shows I have three want this one, no agenda and Moe 78 00:04:28,079 --> 00:04:30,449 facts and I think it's probably this one that has the most but 79 00:04:30,449 --> 00:04:33,869 maybe no agenda will be competing now in I have no way 80 00:04:33,869 --> 00:04:34,469 to tell yet. 81 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,980 No agenda can't compete with us. Okay, 82 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:44,670 I guess he knows. Exactly. So 45% average is going to me that 83 00:04:44,670 --> 00:04:48,960 means the payment is is at least double that. But now this 84 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,440 morning, I'm doing like almost $18 a day. 85 00:04:53,370 --> 00:04:54,270 That's real money. 86 00:04:54,900 --> 00:04:58,620 Well, you know, I've always said hey, just times this 1000 Well, 87 00:04:58,650 --> 00:05:01,740 if I don't, just don't have enough data, I don't have a I 88 00:05:01,740 --> 00:05:05,010 don't have even a week's worth yet. But once I have a couple 89 00:05:05,010 --> 00:05:09,600 weeks worth of data, I mean, if it's truly, you know, like 20 90 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:17,340 bucks a day, and we can just by sheer numbers of more apps and 91 00:05:17,370 --> 00:05:22,380 users can build that 10x, which I think has to be possible. 92 00:05:22,470 --> 00:05:26,490 Hopefully, we'll 10x with just breeze swings and pod pod 93 00:05:26,490 --> 00:05:30,720 station alone, then you're talking 200 bucks a day. 94 00:05:31,649 --> 00:05:35,069 Yeah, that's really I mean, that's real money. That's less 95 00:05:35,069 --> 00:05:36,029 livable money, right? 96 00:05:36,029 --> 00:05:39,479 Yeah, that's $6,000 a month. That's, you know, you're, you're 97 00:05:39,479 --> 00:05:44,279 working on 70 grand a year. Hell yeah, that's real money. 98 00:05:44,399 --> 00:05:47,609 And I think there's something else to this that, like, there's 99 00:05:47,609 --> 00:05:51,599 always a, trying to figure out a word this, there's always like 100 00:05:51,599 --> 00:05:54,809 that gold rush at the beginning of anything that happens when 101 00:05:54,809 --> 00:05:58,019 there's a new app store that comes online, right, you know, 102 00:05:58,019 --> 00:06:01,259 or some new social network or whatever, there's always this 103 00:06:01,349 --> 00:06:04,379 sort of rush in there. And there's this sort of golden 104 00:06:04,379 --> 00:06:09,209 window of opportunity, where at the beginning, the first sort of 105 00:06:09,209 --> 00:06:12,389 adopters of that, yes, they're taking a risk, because there's 106 00:06:12,389 --> 00:06:16,379 not, it's not proven. But on the on the flip side, there's, 107 00:06:16,409 --> 00:06:20,759 there's basically no risk, you know, with just submitting your 108 00:06:20,759 --> 00:06:25,379 stuff and getting into a system. And then you're, you become for 109 00:06:25,409 --> 00:06:29,039 for this sort of golden period of time. You're one of the few 110 00:06:29,039 --> 00:06:33,539 that's listed there. Right. And prom and prom. Yeah, yeah. So 111 00:06:33,539 --> 00:06:38,039 people are getting into me a breeze and Sphinx and pod 112 00:06:38,039 --> 00:06:41,939 station, and Martin Piper is working on stuff. People are 113 00:06:41,939 --> 00:06:45,809 getting into these apps. And in Mitch, they're getting into 114 00:06:45,809 --> 00:06:49,979 these apps. And like, they'll see which podcast there are 115 00:06:49,979 --> 00:06:54,089 value block enabled. And for a while isn't there's not going to 116 00:06:54,089 --> 00:06:57,749 be a ton of them. So you have this opportunity to get your 117 00:06:57,779 --> 00:07:01,259 your podcast in front of a lot of people upfront, real quick. 118 00:07:01,319 --> 00:07:03,929 Exactly. Which I think he can I don't think you can, you know, 119 00:07:03,929 --> 00:07:06,149 you can't discount that. Because that's, you know, so 120 00:07:06,149 --> 00:07:07,949 you don't run into that opportunity. Very often. It's 121 00:07:07,949 --> 00:07:12,269 interesting. This is now this is not well, it is intentional, 122 00:07:12,569 --> 00:07:15,029 because I've obviously been in close contact with Roy and 123 00:07:15,029 --> 00:07:19,049 Brees. And once we have our bring our guests in today, I 124 00:07:19,049 --> 00:07:21,659 want to continue that story a little bit because it does 125 00:07:21,659 --> 00:07:27,059 pertain to basically expectations of people when it 126 00:07:27,059 --> 00:07:31,589 comes to people who understand crypto. And people understand 127 00:07:31,589 --> 00:07:34,709 podcasting and what are the expectations of what kind of a 128 00:07:34,709 --> 00:07:41,459 combined type of type of app does. But they chose 129 00:07:41,459 --> 00:07:46,259 specifically to only surface anything that's, that has a 130 00:07:46,259 --> 00:07:51,599 value block. And, and although I knew it would disappoint a lot 131 00:07:51,599 --> 00:07:55,109 of people in fact, I had people telling me, hey, it's broken. I 132 00:07:55,109 --> 00:07:57,779 mean, it's broken, the search is broken. Yeah. And he was very 133 00:07:57,779 --> 00:08:00,869 hard when I say Could you tell me what you what you did? So I 134 00:08:00,869 --> 00:08:04,589 can understand. Yeah, it's broken. So someone searching for 135 00:08:04,589 --> 00:08:05,489 their own podcast 136 00:08:05,490 --> 00:08:06,750 or Okay, as I 137 00:08:06,750 --> 00:08:09,780 was searching for their podcast, it's not in the it's not going 138 00:08:09,780 --> 00:08:13,710 to surface so it's broken. So you know, there was obviously 139 00:08:13,710 --> 00:08:20,940 some of that but what it did and as intended was drive people to 140 00:08:20,940 --> 00:08:23,220 go Oh, crap. And I wanted like you said, I want to get on this 141 00:08:23,220 --> 00:08:27,120 list. It's very much like the Oh God, I hated it, by the way, but 142 00:08:27,150 --> 00:08:29,970 that was exclusive. This is anybody can get on it. Because 143 00:08:29,970 --> 00:08:34,200 it's just an algorithm for trending. Twitter friends list, 144 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:37,050 it was the you know, like a special jack Dorsey lists that 145 00:08:37,050 --> 00:08:42,210 you can get on and it just suggested, suggested followers. 146 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:50,970 Very gross, very gross. But anyway, we'll get into the into 147 00:08:50,970 --> 00:08:55,860 the depth of all that, but it's, it has just blown me away. In 148 00:08:55,860 --> 00:09:00,450 particular, when you look at the bubble chart that marnix has 149 00:09:00,450 --> 00:09:01,470 been maintaining. 150 00:09:02,490 --> 00:09:03,450 That thing's getting big. 151 00:09:03,750 --> 00:09:07,380 I mean, it's mind blowing, it shows because all of those 152 00:09:07,410 --> 00:09:12,270 connecting lines are represent payments. Now it's it's not you 153 00:09:12,270 --> 00:09:17,970 know, it literally represents value flow. So if it's big fat 154 00:09:17,970 --> 00:09:21,630 and white, which I think you know, we need to change the 155 00:09:21,630 --> 00:09:23,640 colors because of course it's going to be seen as white 156 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:25,920 supremacy by someone somewhere somehow. 157 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:34,200 Got a stop, stop the statue. Oh, I have a as a formal complaint 158 00:09:34,230 --> 00:09:41,160 that get dude who is the equity, diversity and inclusion board 159 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:45,630 for Bitcoin because I want to lodge a personal complaint, 160 00:09:45,660 --> 00:09:53,310 okay, against the term uncle Jim's node. The most racist 161 00:09:53,310 --> 00:09:54,810 thing I've ever heard in my life. 162 00:09:54,990 --> 00:09:59,970 Now. Do you know Do you know who I heard say that first? Yeah. 163 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:00,870 He told 164 00:10:04,650 --> 00:10:07,140 me like somebody on the street somebody else thinks. 165 00:10:09,210 --> 00:10:10,500 Who the hell is Uncle Gino? 166 00:10:11,190 --> 00:10:14,880 Oh my goodness. Oh, and the funny thing is I haven't I had 167 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,820 he passed away Uncle Jim. We call them Thumper. James because 168 00:10:17,820 --> 00:10:22,680 he was a heart surgeon, a jazz drummer and a raging alcoholic. 169 00:10:22,770 --> 00:10:26,130 So whenever you think of Uncle Jim, it's like I see him you 170 00:10:26,130 --> 00:10:29,670 know, and I was smiling. That guy was living his best life. 171 00:10:29,730 --> 00:10:32,640 Oh, by the way, he died. He died of lung cancer. Of course. 172 00:10:34,950 --> 00:10:38,040 Now we know it's Uncle Jim is actually Jim Eagle, 173 00:10:38,100 --> 00:10:42,210 right? Yeah, I saw this Yeah, he's usually our president said 174 00:10:42,210 --> 00:10:45,600 what's worse than Jim Crow laws? Well, Jim Eagle laws of course. 175 00:10:45,660 --> 00:10:49,560 Yes. Jim Eagles node. Crap, holy crap. 176 00:10:50,460 --> 00:10:53,520 We have we've got stuff is extremely racist 177 00:10:53,550 --> 00:10:56,640 is the good point. Good point that you should have called for 178 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:59,940 a point of personal privilege. But okay. You did not follow 179 00:10:59,940 --> 00:11:01,260 parliamentarian rules here at 180 00:11:01,260 --> 00:11:03,570 the board me? Yes. All right, you can strike it from the 181 00:11:03,570 --> 00:11:03,810 record. 182 00:11:03,990 --> 00:11:06,030 today. What should we bring our guests in? Because our guests 183 00:11:06,030 --> 00:11:08,910 can speak about all of this and probably a lot better to some of 184 00:11:08,910 --> 00:11:12,360 the things we're going to be talking about? Yes. Very happy 185 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:18,000 to have with us. A one of our developers, who is part of the 186 00:11:18,450 --> 00:11:21,870 community over there at podcast index dot social, where anyone 187 00:11:21,870 --> 00:11:25,350 is welcome to come and share ideas and, and help kind of 188 00:11:25,350 --> 00:11:27,810 develop all this together. And so I'm very proud to present 189 00:11:27,810 --> 00:11:30,480 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the board meeting your pilot in 190 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:34,650 charge of the pod verse. Young Master Mitch Downey. 191 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:37,290 Hey, what's up guys? 192 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:41,310 What's the correct term is Hey, guys. 193 00:11:43,680 --> 00:11:44,940 Hey, man. Hey, Mitch. 194 00:11:45,690 --> 00:11:46,530 Hey, guys. 195 00:11:46,620 --> 00:11:51,180 There you go. Man, so good to speak with you. Yeah, it's 196 00:11:51,179 --> 00:11:52,079 great to be here. 197 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:57,149 Please. For people who aren't familiar with your wealth 198 00:11:57,149 --> 00:12:00,749 course, if they're on the podcast index on social they are 199 00:12:00,749 --> 00:12:03,599 but give us a little background? Who is Mitch? And what does he 200 00:12:03,599 --> 00:12:05,849 do? Sure. I'm 201 00:12:05,850 --> 00:12:12,060 a software engineer these days. I'm a full stack JavaScript 202 00:12:12,060 --> 00:12:15,840 developer. And I've been working on pod verse for almost eight 203 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:21,570 years now. It's pretty much how I learned how to program. In my 204 00:12:22,110 --> 00:12:25,230 younger days. I'm not as young as you think, Adam, I'm actually 205 00:12:25,230 --> 00:12:26,070 36 206 00:12:26,100 --> 00:12:30,120 Well, now this is disappointing because I when I saw you on the 207 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:34,620 the one jitsi chat that we did, I went to my wife and said, Oh 208 00:12:34,620 --> 00:12:39,540 my god, this is fucking college kid. And brilliant. Man. The guy 209 00:12:39,540 --> 00:12:41,940 is brilliant. I don't know what's going on with him. But I 210 00:12:41,940 --> 00:12:44,940 love having them around. Well, young at heart doesn't matter. 211 00:12:45,390 --> 00:12:48,480 We're all basically the same in in this community. So 212 00:12:48,870 --> 00:12:51,690 yeah, now that you got four, you got four kids, right? 213 00:12:51,690 --> 00:12:51,960 So 214 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:55,590 just just bought the Tesla. 215 00:12:57,210 --> 00:13:00,660 None of that. But yeah, so in my younger days, I actually was an 216 00:13:00,660 --> 00:13:04,350 English and philosophy major as an undergrad. So Dave, I know 217 00:13:04,380 --> 00:13:06,240 you said I've studied philosophy too. 218 00:13:06,450 --> 00:13:10,890 Yeah. Now I know why you're a programmer. Because there's no 219 00:13:10,890 --> 00:13:13,980 money. There's no money in the liberal arts. Exactly. Right. 220 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:16,050 Yeah, it 221 00:13:16,050 --> 00:13:19,530 took me about six years to figure that out and change my 222 00:13:19,530 --> 00:13:20,430 career plans, 223 00:13:20,730 --> 00:13:25,710 get my first job and not and it was the group I was working. I 224 00:13:25,710 --> 00:13:29,040 was working with. There's about five of us. If you went around 225 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:31,890 the room, it was like an ask everybody what their major was. 226 00:13:31,890 --> 00:13:38,400 It was like, philosophy, English history. Like, there was nothing 227 00:13:38,430 --> 00:13:41,100 It was all liberal arts, you know, everybody went straight 228 00:13:41,100 --> 00:13:44,370 out and like, Oh, wait, I can't get a job. I better go into it. 229 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:48,090 Yeah, that was that was true for me. When I finally got a 230 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:51,930 programming job. I it seems like 50% of the people didn't study 231 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:55,380 programming in college and were mostly self taught, came to it 232 00:13:55,380 --> 00:13:56,460 from different play. 233 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:57,690 You play an instrument. 234 00:13:58,830 --> 00:14:02,610 I haven't played very much since I've been programming all the 235 00:14:02,610 --> 00:14:04,050 time. I used to play guitar a lot though. 236 00:14:04,050 --> 00:14:08,040 You got musicians that to your point, Dave about philosophy. 237 00:14:08,370 --> 00:14:11,730 But musicians make great programmers, bass players and 238 00:14:11,730 --> 00:14:15,870 drummers I find a really really consistently good yeah, 239 00:14:16,140 --> 00:14:18,660 that's Yeah, cuz they drive the drive. Keep 240 00:14:18,660 --> 00:14:22,620 the drive. Yeah, they keep the beat they drive it. But also 241 00:14:22,620 --> 00:14:24,270 complex music and notation. 242 00:14:25,020 --> 00:14:28,530 Eight years on pod verse Mitch. That's a long time. I had no 243 00:14:28,530 --> 00:14:30,240 idea pod verse had been around that long. 244 00:14:31,079 --> 00:14:35,729 Yeah, well, it started it was called podcast quotes. And it 245 00:14:35,729 --> 00:14:40,259 was like a Reddit clone that would have, you would type in 246 00:14:40,259 --> 00:14:44,969 manually quotes from different podcasts. And that was before I 247 00:14:44,969 --> 00:14:48,449 even knew how to code. I was just trying to learn user 248 00:14:48,449 --> 00:14:50,879 experience design at the time and trying to convince 249 00:14:50,879 --> 00:14:54,329 programmers to actually help me build things, which didn't go 250 00:14:54,329 --> 00:14:58,379 very well because I didn't have any money to offer them. So I 251 00:14:58,379 --> 00:15:03,929 know the feeling So I eventually realized I had to figure this 252 00:15:03,929 --> 00:15:07,769 stuff out for myself and pod versus I've, this is like the 253 00:15:07,769 --> 00:15:11,819 fifth iteration of it. I've just been coming back to it to teach 254 00:15:11,819 --> 00:15:15,959 myself how to program. And it's an outlet for my love of 255 00:15:15,959 --> 00:15:18,989 podcasting and open source software. Oh, beautiful. 256 00:15:19,140 --> 00:15:24,990 Love that. Now you have you have a registration system for extra 257 00:15:24,990 --> 00:15:25,950 features, correct? 258 00:15:26,819 --> 00:15:31,769 Yes, we have all server side features. You have to be 259 00:15:31,769 --> 00:15:35,939 subscribed as a member per pod verse. And right now you get a 260 00:15:35,939 --> 00:15:42,029 one year free trial membership. And beyond that, it's $10 a year 261 00:15:42,179 --> 00:15:44,939 at the current price, the prices aren't supposed to be 262 00:15:44,939 --> 00:15:48,149 prohibitive, like if people can't afford it, we would 263 00:15:48,149 --> 00:15:50,609 probably just give you a free membership if you reach out to 264 00:15:50,609 --> 00:15:56,039 us and ask for one. But we need to have some sort of well, 265 00:15:56,159 --> 00:15:58,649 income because the servers cost money even though the software 266 00:15:58,649 --> 00:16:00,959 you can give away for free the servers we have to spend on a 267 00:16:00,959 --> 00:16:02,129 monthly basis for 268 00:16:03,030 --> 00:16:08,070 Yeah, so do you have a consistent user base? Yeah. 269 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,450 It has been steadily growing thanks mostly to you guys. With 270 00:16:12,450 --> 00:16:13,740 podcasting 2.0. 271 00:16:15,059 --> 00:16:15,809 We, 272 00:16:16,049 --> 00:16:19,319 we had we plateaued for a long time, we had like a very small 273 00:16:19,319 --> 00:16:21,959 amount of people who somehow found it and like the clip 274 00:16:21,959 --> 00:16:28,049 sharing feature. And with ever since, have you been shouting 275 00:16:28,049 --> 00:16:30,899 out our name on various podcasts? We've seen a steady 276 00:16:30,899 --> 00:16:34,199 increase in our user base almost every day, like every week where 277 00:16:34,379 --> 00:16:37,949 we're getting like a 20% gain over Oh, wow. Holy crap. Oh, 278 00:16:38,010 --> 00:16:39,030 I should charge for that. 279 00:16:42,330 --> 00:16:45,750 That is great. And I'm glad you released an app to the app is 280 00:16:45,750 --> 00:16:49,470 really slick. And I find myself go into it. I mean, uh, one of 281 00:16:49,470 --> 00:16:52,170 the clips for today's show. I did. Well, yeah, 282 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,350 definitely. Here's to the clips. And that's kind of in your DNA, 283 00:16:55,350 --> 00:16:55,800 right? 284 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,060 Yeah, that was the original plan for pod verse. It's supposed to 285 00:17:00,060 --> 00:17:03,630 be you know, just a small little podcast clipping app. And now 286 00:17:03,630 --> 00:17:08,640 it's turned into this giant, multi apps. We got iOS, Android, 287 00:17:09,180 --> 00:17:14,250 web, we've got feed parsers. on our server. We've got all of 288 00:17:14,250 --> 00:17:17,550 this stuff going on. But yeah, the core functionality of the 289 00:17:17,550 --> 00:17:18,600 app is clip sharing. 290 00:17:19,260 --> 00:17:22,140 Very nice. Tell us about how you found the index and what what 291 00:17:22,140 --> 00:17:22,980 was your path? 292 00:17:24,150 --> 00:17:29,130 Sure, I think it was through James cred Lin. And pod news, 293 00:17:29,130 --> 00:17:36,420 actually. Boy, it must have been around August or so. I was in a 294 00:17:36,450 --> 00:17:40,230 I was finally like ready to branch out and try to connect 295 00:17:40,230 --> 00:17:43,350 with more like the podcast community and share this app. 296 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:47,250 And I wanted to get involved in other open source projects. And 297 00:17:47,250 --> 00:17:52,050 I happen to see pod news had some GitHub repos. And it looked 298 00:17:52,050 --> 00:17:53,880 like there were some things here and there I might be able to 299 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:59,040 help with. And somewhere along the way James sent me. He's 300 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:02,010 like, you should check out podcasting. 2.0 it's coming out. 301 00:18:02,010 --> 00:18:04,890 It wasn't out yet. At the time. He just like tipped me off to it 302 00:18:04,890 --> 00:18:10,380 early. Yeah. And incidentally, I had been listening to you and no 303 00:18:10,380 --> 00:18:15,930 agenda since like, like six months prior to that. I had to 304 00:18:16,230 --> 00:18:19,830 fairly recently, right before your first Joe Rogan appearance, 305 00:18:19,830 --> 00:18:25,170 like a few months made morish? Yeah. So it was like serendipity 306 00:18:25,170 --> 00:18:26,610 that it just all lined up. 307 00:18:27,630 --> 00:18:33,030 That's cool. What is? So when it comes to, like on the tech on 308 00:18:33,030 --> 00:18:36,930 the tech side of things? No, at one point, you're we're leaning 309 00:18:36,930 --> 00:18:39,390 on the index a lot. But I think you've started doing your own 310 00:18:39,390 --> 00:18:42,540 parsing and like what, what's your back end setup look like as 311 00:18:42,540 --> 00:18:46,170 far as how you're handling your your tech on the back end? 312 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:50,310 Sure. Well, we are doing all of our own parsing and data 313 00:18:50,310 --> 00:18:54,660 storage. We have been doing that for a few years now. And our 314 00:18:54,690 --> 00:18:57,660 primary motivation for that was because we didn't want to be 315 00:18:57,690 --> 00:19:03,450 solely dependent on iTunes, like everyone is. And now the thing 316 00:19:03,450 --> 00:19:07,380 is, it's a big project to manage by itself. As you guys know, 317 00:19:07,380 --> 00:19:12,600 that's your full time responsibilities. And so we had 318 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:14,940 a very small version of the database, and we were manually 319 00:19:14,940 --> 00:19:17,460 adding things as people requesting it. And we had about 320 00:19:17,580 --> 00:19:24,000 40,000 podcasts on there. And thanks to your resources and the 321 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,030 endpoints you've provided, and like the ability for us to sync 322 00:19:27,030 --> 00:19:31,050 with your database. We are now up to 1.5 million podcasts. 323 00:19:31,530 --> 00:19:34,380 And you're trying to play catch up from Christopher is named 324 00:19:34,380 --> 00:19:35,940 dumping the entire world into us. 325 00:19:37,230 --> 00:19:39,240 Yeah, actually, I haven't checked recently, maybe it's up 326 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:41,340 to 2 million if he's no, it's, 327 00:19:41,670 --> 00:19:44,640 it's insane. I mean, it's like it's like, you know, 10,000 a 328 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,400 day. It's crazy. Wow. Yeah. 329 00:19:47,700 --> 00:19:51,960 He's doing great work. So yeah, and beyond that, though, so one 330 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:56,400 of the keys is you you give us an endpoint that notifies us 331 00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:02,460 when a podcast should be updated. Ah and That has. So we 332 00:20:02,460 --> 00:20:05,130 are able to do all of our parsing through your 333 00:20:05,130 --> 00:20:08,880 notifications get very cheap, like it dropped our server costs 334 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:13,470 by like 90%. When we switched over to nice, yeah, that 335 00:20:13,470 --> 00:20:13,890 endpoint, 336 00:20:14,610 --> 00:20:18,600 that running to speed, the aggregation stuff has, it has to 337 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:22,200 be distributed. But it's really difficult to distribute to have 338 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:27,270 it distributed in a way that doesn't cost you money. And as a 339 00:20:27,270 --> 00:20:31,110 weird thing to say, but like, what so is you rapidly figure 340 00:20:31,110 --> 00:20:35,040 out okay, one, if I, if I'm going to do aggregation with one 341 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,830 server, it's got to be a heavyweight server, it's got to 342 00:20:37,830 --> 00:20:42,930 be a big one. And so the more cost effective way is to split 343 00:20:42,930 --> 00:20:45,450 it out amongst you know, multiple aggregators and have 344 00:20:45,450 --> 00:20:48,690 them all doing the job and feed it back to the main to the main 345 00:20:48,690 --> 00:20:52,020 marks, that then your main box has to be able to handle that 346 00:20:52,020 --> 00:20:54,600 load. So there's this weird balancing effect. And it's 347 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,660 really hard to come out of it without spending a lot of money. 348 00:20:58,740 --> 00:21:02,280 And so you always have to, like handle these caveats of you 349 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,100 know, okay, well, I'm gonna change a little bit here. And 350 00:21:05,100 --> 00:21:08,250 that's gonna make things harder here. It's like this is this 351 00:21:08,580 --> 00:21:14,100 weird, financial, financial and technical balancing act. Yeah, 352 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:18,300 I heard. I heard Marco somewhere else. Maybe this is what I heard 353 00:21:18,300 --> 00:21:21,030 and then read myself that on a slack or something he posted 354 00:21:21,030 --> 00:21:24,720 that it costs him five grand a month to run his back end for 355 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:25,530 overcast? 356 00:21:25,740 --> 00:21:30,930 Yeah, man. Yeah, he's got a lot more going on. But I think he 357 00:21:30,930 --> 00:21:37,020 also, I think, my impression is that he's probably doing what a 358 00:21:37,020 --> 00:21:40,110 know what I know, a few other people are doing, which is they 359 00:21:40,110 --> 00:21:45,000 just have some big VMs. Like, right, like some that cost 360 00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:48,840 hundreds of months just for that one virtual machine. Right. 361 00:21:48,900 --> 00:21:55,500 Right. It's our long term goal with this in, because I know, 362 00:21:55,680 --> 00:22:02,220 what we've had to do is prioritize things. Because, I 363 00:22:02,220 --> 00:22:05,700 mean, if there's going to be 2 million podcasts out there. I 364 00:22:05,700 --> 00:22:12,090 mean, number one, you know, you don't want to necessarily pull 365 00:22:12,120 --> 00:22:14,880 all those things all the time, because most of them are dead, 366 00:22:14,910 --> 00:22:18,120 right? I mean, I think Daniel J. Lewis, his latest stats are only 367 00:22:18,360 --> 00:22:19,590 out of the 2 million 368 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:22,440 1000 or something, it's, um, it's 369 00:22:22,710 --> 00:22:26,370 only 35 is like 30 something percent or even post still 370 00:22:26,370 --> 00:22:30,090 publishing episodes. So mate, like you don't want to be it's a 371 00:22:30,090 --> 00:22:33,450 complete waste of time, money, bandwidth, everything to be 372 00:22:33,450 --> 00:22:36,900 pulling 2 million feeds, when only a third of them are 373 00:22:36,900 --> 00:22:40,980 actually posting content. Right, right, right. So we try, we're 374 00:22:40,980 --> 00:22:44,580 trying to our aggregators look, and just they back off when 375 00:22:44,580 --> 00:22:47,160 something stops posting, they just stopped checking out very 376 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:51,570 often, if that means if that means you have to go like, it's 377 00:22:51,570 --> 00:22:54,450 going to take a day to pick up a new episode from a podcast that 378 00:22:54,450 --> 00:22:57,510 hasn't published in six months. That's fine. I mean, I don't 379 00:22:57,510 --> 00:23:00,390 really care because then you'll start checking more but it's 380 00:23:00,390 --> 00:23:05,730 just is that in order to not go broke? You have you have to make 381 00:23:05,730 --> 00:23:09,180 trade offs like that. I can I can see I can definitely your 382 00:23:09,180 --> 00:23:10,350 pain. Mitch. It's, 383 00:23:10,620 --> 00:23:12,840 it's hard. Yeah. For real for real? 384 00:23:12,870 --> 00:23:16,410 Well, it's it's been going really well. In the first couple 385 00:23:16,410 --> 00:23:19,920 months there was like, they had to stabilize and some people had 386 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,490 some requests and some bugs but it we've had no complaints for 387 00:23:23,550 --> 00:23:27,150 at least like a month or two. So this integration seems to be 388 00:23:27,150 --> 00:23:27,780 working great. 389 00:23:27,930 --> 00:23:28,740 How about 390 00:23:30,090 --> 00:23:33,630 well, actually hold on a second Come on in he's young lady's 391 00:23:36,180 --> 00:23:36,690 name, 392 00:23:36,990 --> 00:23:39,150 but he can talk hot like anybody. 393 00:23:41,550 --> 00:23:42,990 Don't pay any attention to the wedding ring. 394 00:23:45,870 --> 00:23:49,350 Now what what tags you support in the namespace so far? 395 00:23:50,460 --> 00:23:55,320 We support funding chapters in sound bytes currently. 396 00:23:55,470 --> 00:23:56,100 Nice. 397 00:23:57,059 --> 00:24:00,779 And next up on our roadmap is the value tag and transcripts. 398 00:24:02,490 --> 00:24:04,590 Nice What are you going to how are you how are you going to do 399 00:24:04,590 --> 00:24:06,360 the value tag? what's what's your plan there? 400 00:24:06,690 --> 00:24:09,900 Our plan is to use the Ellen pay integration that will be our 401 00:24:09,900 --> 00:24:13,680 starting point. showed it to our co founder Korean the other day 402 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:17,640 and he was impressed by how easy it looked. So yeah, we're hoping 403 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:19,080 to get that in in April. 404 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:22,230 What will the user experience be like on it? 405 00:24:23,460 --> 00:24:26,850 Probably similar to all the other apps we could have 406 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:31,170 streaming sets we could have a boost button. That is the 407 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,300 intention nice aside for now. 408 00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:34,020 Nice. 409 00:24:38,610 --> 00:24:39,810 As well go 410 00:24:39,810 --> 00:24:41,160 ahead. No, no, go ahead. Go ahead. 411 00:24:41,730 --> 00:24:44,010 I was gonna say something about the sound bites tag. 412 00:24:44,430 --> 00:24:46,950 Please do because you because you kind of in my forgetting 413 00:24:46,950 --> 00:24:50,970 that you kind of drove that. Dave did that come from some I 414 00:24:50,970 --> 00:24:52,590 remember that bus route 415 00:24:52,830 --> 00:24:57,000 is some I remember the pod verse app being with the clips being 416 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:01,020 like the shining example. I may be misremembering. 417 00:25:02,190 --> 00:25:04,380 While we are integrated with sound bites, I'm not sure there 418 00:25:04,380 --> 00:25:08,250 are that many apps that are integrated with it. But so I 419 00:25:08,250 --> 00:25:11,850 think that this is the most underrated and underutilized tag 420 00:25:11,850 --> 00:25:18,960 in 2.0. Because a sound bite is just a clip. And what we have 421 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:23,250 right now, if I check the databases, we have 140,000 sound 422 00:25:23,250 --> 00:25:26,730 bytes that are created by the podcasters themselves and shared 423 00:25:26,730 --> 00:25:32,940 in their RSS feeds. And only about 20 of them have titles. So 424 00:25:32,940 --> 00:25:36,930 we have a ton of the sound bytes, which from pod versus 425 00:25:36,930 --> 00:25:39,780 perspective, we could just start sharing on our homepage and 426 00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:44,190 across the app to help, you know, raise exposure for these 427 00:25:44,220 --> 00:25:49,170 different podcasts. But without a title, we don't want the site 428 00:25:49,170 --> 00:25:51,510 to just be full of untitled clip right? everywhere, 429 00:25:51,540 --> 00:25:52,260 right? 430 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,730 And I'm not entirely sure why that's happening. Because I know 431 00:25:56,730 --> 00:25:59,670 fireside has titles enabled, maybe there's like a 432 00:25:59,670 --> 00:26:03,330 communication thing, maybe podcasters aren't aware of the 433 00:26:03,330 --> 00:26:06,210 value it could bring to them. If they just add a title, these 434 00:26:06,210 --> 00:26:07,350 clips are already creating 435 00:26:08,340 --> 00:26:14,370 this this week, we should get his message out to Dan Benjamin 436 00:26:14,370 --> 00:26:17,490 and Tom Ross and all this guy. We should throw that message out 437 00:26:17,490 --> 00:26:21,930 there and just see, like, what if their UI is allowing you to 438 00:26:21,930 --> 00:26:25,410 do a sound that without a title? It might be worth considering me 439 00:26:25,410 --> 00:26:27,720 to making that mandatory? Because that you're right. I 440 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:32,130 mean, that really is a PR thing. And I thought about that? 441 00:26:32,820 --> 00:26:36,090 Yeah, I'm not sure. I mean, I'll apologize. I'll stand corrected. 442 00:26:36,090 --> 00:26:38,610 If it turns out it's a bug on our end, but every time I've 443 00:26:38,610 --> 00:26:41,610 checked it out, it seems that there just aren't titles with 444 00:26:42,120 --> 00:26:45,090 the vast majority of sound bites that are being shared. So I 445 00:26:45,090 --> 00:26:48,330 think there's a lot of untapped potential there. To raise 446 00:26:48,330 --> 00:26:49,620 visibility for podcasts. 447 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:53,580 Yeah. And is it as buzzsprout is really the creation tool? 448 00:26:53,580 --> 00:26:58,860 Because unlike the, the cobbler, whose kids have no shoes over 449 00:26:58,860 --> 00:27:04,620 here? Where does that go? Where does the data go? Does that go 450 00:27:04,620 --> 00:27:09,210 in in in a separate JSON file? I am woefully unaware. 451 00:27:11,700 --> 00:27:17,970 For the kritis the sound bites within the RSS feed itself. So 452 00:27:17,970 --> 00:27:20,970 whereas the chapters go on a separate JSON file, okay, 453 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,880 gotcha. sound bites are Yeah, got, which I guess it's kind of 454 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:25,680 arbitrary. The sound bytes could be in the 455 00:27:25,830 --> 00:27:31,590 notes file. Well, I mean, the reason why and, and this is kind 456 00:27:31,590 --> 00:27:35,790 of an anomaly overall. And this is something started a long, 457 00:27:35,790 --> 00:27:40,500 long time ago, in podcasting, I, I've always come from a life to 458 00:27:40,500 --> 00:27:43,740 tape perspective, like I've and that's just because I've done 459 00:27:43,740 --> 00:27:46,530 radio. And that's the kind of the nature of it. I've done tons 460 00:27:46,530 --> 00:27:49,200 of pre recorded stuff, but I've always found if you do it live, 461 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,710 it's best. And you can always fix something. But because of 462 00:27:52,710 --> 00:27:58,260 the lack of really good studio tools, and I tried, I tried that 463 00:27:58,260 --> 00:28:02,040 was a failed venture. For me, I really tried to put something in 464 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,410 the marketplace that would make it apparent and easy for 465 00:28:04,410 --> 00:28:08,220 everybody. Because what we wound up with is an entire generation 466 00:28:08,220 --> 00:28:12,510 of podcast producers, who were sitting there kind of like, you 467 00:28:12,510 --> 00:28:16,590 know, Phil Spector wall of sound with 29 tracks and like, Okay, 468 00:28:16,590 --> 00:28:19,860 I've got everything, and it's all of this thing done. Post, 469 00:28:20,100 --> 00:28:23,400 which then also, since you're doing that, anyway, gives you 470 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:28,170 the opportunity to, you know, to do post and do chapters and do 471 00:28:28,620 --> 00:28:32,460 get your transcripts up and running. And, you know, get your 472 00:28:32,460 --> 00:28:38,940 sound bites selected before you publish. And for me personally, 473 00:28:38,940 --> 00:28:43,890 but I think for a lot of timely content, especially if it's 474 00:28:43,890 --> 00:28:48,120 long, the idea of that being dynamic is pretty important. And 475 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:52,620 so sound clips from being selected before I publish the 476 00:28:52,620 --> 00:28:56,730 RSS feed is always going to be a problem for me. Does that make 477 00:28:56,730 --> 00:28:57,420 any sense? 478 00:28:59,940 --> 00:29:02,760 I'm not sure I'm following you saying that before? Yes, sir. 479 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,160 The sound bites are put in the RSS feed. 480 00:29:05,190 --> 00:29:09,180 No, that's the that's the point. It's like, I need to get the 481 00:29:09,180 --> 00:29:13,320 show out. Before I have time to do all of that stuff, because it 482 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,320 would extend the time between recording and production by at 483 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:20,910 least another three hours. So for someone Someone has to go 484 00:29:20,910 --> 00:29:23,400 back and say, Okay, here's the here's the chapter, here's a 485 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,400 soundbite. Here's the events, a lot of that's true post 486 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:32,130 production of the of the end product. And for me, I love the 487 00:29:32,130 --> 00:29:35,820 dynamic nature. So I can say to the community or designate 488 00:29:35,820 --> 00:29:38,670 certain people like Dred Scott, and say, okay, you just do those 489 00:29:38,670 --> 00:29:41,550 chapters, and they'll show up when they show up. And as long 490 00:29:41,550 --> 00:29:44,070 as he's listening a little bit faster than everyone else, 491 00:29:44,250 --> 00:29:47,340 they'll kind of catch up. And this then this works almost 492 00:29:47,340 --> 00:29:50,550 everywhere. Not in breeze, interestingly, because, you 493 00:29:50,550 --> 00:29:53,010 know, it's like, oh, we just thought we'd cash that shit and 494 00:29:53,010 --> 00:29:55,980 it'd be fine and your episode art doesn't work there. There's 495 00:29:55,980 --> 00:29:59,970 all these little nuances that that make it kind of a 496 00:30:00,030 --> 00:30:02,670 Challenge. So it's nothing wrong. It's just it's harder for 497 00:30:02,670 --> 00:30:03,840 me to take advantage of it. 498 00:30:05,700 --> 00:30:08,340 Yes, that's what I thought. That's what I thought about pod 499 00:30:08,340 --> 00:30:12,780 verse with the sound bites. Is it lined up perfectly with what 500 00:30:12,780 --> 00:30:15,240 y'all are doing? because y'all are almost like the soundbite 501 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:19,320 that that you're the soundbite repository. You know, like there 502 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:23,490 could be, because you could put eggs, because what you're saying 503 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:25,950 is like the dynamic nature of chapters where you can just 504 00:30:25,950 --> 00:30:28,260 throw a fall out there, and then it can be slowly built over 505 00:30:28,260 --> 00:30:32,400 time. Yeah. After publishing. Yeah, is beautiful. And then, 506 00:30:32,430 --> 00:30:36,960 but then you have like, the sound bites. If they have to be 507 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,140 in their public publish time, that puts the job back on you 508 00:30:40,140 --> 00:30:43,680 and the community can do it correct. Yeah. I wonder, you 509 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:48,780 know, and that, that makes me think, okay, that the sound 510 00:30:48,780 --> 00:30:54,390 bites? If I'm not mistaken. Didn't Benjamin Bellamy put that 511 00:30:54,390 --> 00:30:55,860 into his recommendation thing? 512 00:30:57,870 --> 00:31:00,930 Because that could be, I think the sound I think the 513 00:31:00,930 --> 00:31:04,170 recommendation tech can handle those sound buys. And that is an 514 00:31:04,170 --> 00:31:06,690 external, you know, piece of data, which is interesting, 515 00:31:06,690 --> 00:31:10,050 because now it comes back to something I didn't understand in 516 00:31:10,050 --> 00:31:13,560 the beginning, which Daniel J. Lewis was saying, with a j 517 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:20,430 stands for JSON. was saying, We need a metadata file. And now 518 00:31:20,430 --> 00:31:22,440 I'm slowly starting to see the issue. 519 00:31:23,190 --> 00:31:27,930 Yeah, not that. I'm gonna start sure to say into Daniel J. Lewis 520 00:31:27,930 --> 00:31:30,990 was right. Yeah, please, careful. Because I don't want to 521 00:31:30,990 --> 00:31:38,160 get I mean, I don't want to go that far. No. I think the I 522 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,370 think it makes sense, though. I mean, he, you know, the chapters 523 00:31:41,370 --> 00:31:44,520 really could become that metadata file. I think it will. 524 00:31:45,180 --> 00:31:47,730 Eventually anyway, because we're putting location and stuff in 525 00:31:47,730 --> 00:31:51,180 there that this time around. We're gonna say, Mitch, 526 00:31:52,020 --> 00:31:55,770 I was gonna say that I can see a use case for sound bites also 527 00:31:55,770 --> 00:31:58,980 being updated after Yeah, after the episode goes live, 528 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:03,720 especially when you integrate community chapters, which could 529 00:32:03,750 --> 00:32:08,820 also be community sound bites. You know, your source. I 530 00:32:08,820 --> 00:32:12,720 mean, I mean, totally, because, what, what some people find 531 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,960 funny sometimes, like, Oh, I gotta send this clip, I'd love 532 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,440 to clip this is not necessarily something that I might find 533 00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:24,360 funny. And, and, and I think the, the, not when it comes to 534 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:29,040 humor, but a great example is c span, you go to C span.org. You 535 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:33,360 can make clips of their clips. And man, that is handy. And it 536 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:37,470 just shows up there. You know, here's this full video for our 537 00:32:37,470 --> 00:32:39,870 hearing. But then people have gone in there said oh, I here's 538 00:32:39,870 --> 00:32:44,040 the bit where we're this guy says this thing. And it's and of 539 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:46,530 course, they also have searchable transcripts. Hello, I 540 00:32:46,530 --> 00:32:50,940 love that feature on pod friend. These things are all little 541 00:32:50,940 --> 00:32:53,850 little bits that just make it such a better experience. 542 00:32:55,050 --> 00:32:56,880 are y'all doing transcripts? Mitch, now he's 543 00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:58,110 on nice to come in next. Right. 544 00:32:58,530 --> 00:33:01,260 coming next you have value and transcripts for April. 545 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:02,370 Are you distracted? 546 00:33:02,490 --> 00:33:04,830 Are you considering a search of the transcript? 547 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,760 Yes, definitely. I think it was the you know, the time coded 548 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:12,870 search fits really well with clips. No, see, there's 549 00:33:12,870 --> 00:33:17,790 another external file, right. That's another thing that that 550 00:33:17,790 --> 00:33:20,460 we use externally. That's another thing because it takes a 551 00:33:20,460 --> 00:33:24,660 good it's almost one to one with AI text transcription. 552 00:33:25,860 --> 00:33:30,690 Yeah, I think that those those sort of cloud based things that 553 00:33:30,690 --> 00:33:35,550 come later, those are, those are really powerful. Because I think 554 00:33:35,550 --> 00:33:38,010 this with the sound, the original idea of sound bites is 555 00:33:39,450 --> 00:33:41,910 that it was always going to be the podcaster who was in control 556 00:33:41,910 --> 00:33:45,420 of it. But he know what is interesting. The one one thing 557 00:33:45,420 --> 00:33:51,000 we're finding out with the whole podcasting 2.0 you know, motion 558 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:55,080 here is that this stuff is actually way more powerful when 559 00:33:55,080 --> 00:34:00,180 you let give up a little bit of control, and give it to you, you 560 00:34:00,180 --> 00:34:02,460 can retain that control if you want you got a guy like john 561 00:34:02,460 --> 00:34:08,460 cigi which I'm going to plug his causality podcast again that 562 00:34:08,460 --> 00:34:09,450 they taught 563 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:16,440 us very, and it's got value tag enabled. I was gonna value 564 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:17,220 block. Oh, 565 00:34:17,220 --> 00:34:20,100 yeah, boosting boost that thing like crazy. 566 00:34:20,190 --> 00:34:23,700 I've already spent I think 30 bucks in three days boosting 567 00:34:26,700 --> 00:34:27,690 making it rain. 568 00:34:29,550 --> 00:34:33,090 I'm doing the same thing. I went up I ran must face dry. And then 569 00:34:33,090 --> 00:34:35,190 when breeze came out, I've almost run it dry. 570 00:34:36,390 --> 00:34:41,010 I ran my Sphinx dry. That's that's a slogan right there. 571 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:46,800 So I get, you know, I'm thinking, you know, podcasts 572 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,860 like that, you know, he he's just a guy that wants to control 573 00:34:50,100 --> 00:34:53,820 everything. So he wants he and he it fits with his podcast. 574 00:34:53,820 --> 00:34:59,490 Sure. Exactly. Now he he's doing these long complicated in depth 575 00:34:59,490 --> 00:35:02,580 things where He's got like 20 pages of show notes and he's 576 00:35:02,580 --> 00:35:07,740 walking through details of help somebody increment a variable 577 00:35:07,740 --> 00:35:11,190 and rolled over because it was a word instead of a D word. And 578 00:35:11,190 --> 00:35:15,450 they went, they went over to 56. And Oh, damn, Jennifer, 579 00:35:15,450 --> 00:35:18,090 we need a hot math talk jingle now. 580 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:24,090 assembly language Yeah. 581 00:35:30,990 --> 00:35:32,850 Are you still here? Did you leave us? Did you just like, 582 00:35:33,060 --> 00:35:34,260 fuck these guys? I'm gone. 583 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:43,950 No. He's looking at his college course catalog for more. Now, 584 00:35:43,950 --> 00:35:46,170 but you get a gala. You know, like that he's doing he's 585 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,680 controlling every part of his podcast. He's an engineer. But 586 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:52,920 then you get, you know, like you You know, you're a radio guy 587 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,530 love guy. And this was like, shoot, man. I'm just gonna do 588 00:35:55,530 --> 00:35:57,630 this thing live and then I'm gonna let the community take 589 00:35:57,630 --> 00:36:00,390 control. Right like you got both you got both aspects. 590 00:36:00,420 --> 00:36:02,310 Both it's both ends of the spectrum. Sure. 591 00:36:02,340 --> 00:36:08,430 Yeah, it's killer. Yeah. I got I got clips. Oh, I got a couple 592 00:36:08,430 --> 00:36:15,420 clips. You wanna? Yes. You want to listen to play? which one I 593 00:36:15,420 --> 00:36:18,690 want to do first? Let's do let's do the one that brought of 594 00:36:18,690 --> 00:36:24,270 London set. Okay, it's free. I want to call it like BBC some. 595 00:36:25,500 --> 00:36:26,460 The price of song. 596 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:27,720 Yeah, that's it. Okay. 597 00:36:31,500 --> 00:36:34,830 This can be the year of the song. I think things will happen 598 00:36:34,830 --> 00:36:38,400 this year, the year in which songs are traded alongside gold 599 00:36:38,430 --> 00:36:42,300 and oil premium assets on the stock market, the year in which 600 00:36:42,300 --> 00:36:45,870 songs continue to drive the music biz boom, creating huge 601 00:36:45,870 --> 00:36:49,410 profits for the record companies and the streaming services like 602 00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:54,900 Amazon, Apple and Spotify. But can 2021 also be the year in 603 00:36:54,900 --> 00:36:58,320 which the Songwriters themselves secure a more equitable 604 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,920 renumeration for their work beyond our various knows all 605 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:05,700 about heads, but he's recently become president of CSAC, the 606 00:37:05,700 --> 00:37:10,140 global confederation of authors and composers like many who 607 00:37:10,140 --> 00:37:13,410 wants a better royalty deal for songwriters. And with the 608 00:37:13,410 --> 00:37:17,160 technology by which we hear music evolving rapidly, beyond 609 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:20,160 once changes to the way in which our subscriptions to the 610 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:23,520 streaming services are distributed as royalty payments, 611 00:37:23,580 --> 00:37:29,490 I want my subscriptions to go to the people I play. I think 612 00:37:29,490 --> 00:37:33,210 that's very natural. I mean, when you bought CDs you didn't 613 00:37:33,210 --> 00:37:37,320 buy CDs from Also, if you want that CD, you have to buy that 614 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:41,820 one, that one, that one and that one too. It was never like that. 615 00:37:42,090 --> 00:37:46,380 But with us centric. And it is technically possible. I'm 616 00:37:46,380 --> 00:37:50,760 absolutely certain that with that. You could be a niche 617 00:37:50,790 --> 00:37:58,650 artist with 2000 3000 loyal followers. And if they pay you, 618 00:37:59,730 --> 00:38:03,300 you get all their subscriptions, which means that you actually 619 00:38:03,300 --> 00:38:09,120 could live off that. But as it is now, it all goes to those 620 00:38:09,420 --> 00:38:12,870 mega artists who have billions of clicks. And that's one thing 621 00:38:12,870 --> 00:38:13,500 we could change 622 00:38:15,750 --> 00:38:18,930 those mega artists that you're referring to include Abba, 623 00:38:18,930 --> 00:38:21,540 you're benefiting from that system at the moment, I guess. 624 00:38:21,570 --> 00:38:21,900 Yes. 625 00:38:28,050 --> 00:38:32,730 That's a great clip. Clip. Did you see that brain fart I had 626 00:38:32,730 --> 00:38:33,360 this morning, 627 00:38:34,290 --> 00:38:35,040 which one? 628 00:38:37,590 --> 00:38:42,090 I was thinking years and years years ago, we set up something 629 00:38:42,090 --> 00:38:45,690 called the pod safe music network. And the idea that and 630 00:38:45,690 --> 00:38:52,200 the idea was and it was it was part of a pod show. But we 631 00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:58,290 bought podcast alley, I think we acquired them. And so the guy 632 00:38:58,290 --> 00:39:00,810 who was running that he took over and did a very good job 633 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,050 with the podcast podsafe music network. And what it was is as 634 00:39:07,050 --> 00:39:12,150 long as it was your material, as you owned it, we had a license 635 00:39:12,180 --> 00:39:15,690 and you signed the license. And the agreement was you make this, 636 00:39:16,230 --> 00:39:20,970 you provide this for podcasters to play in this show, with the 637 00:39:20,970 --> 00:39:25,050 promise that they will report back to you in what show they 638 00:39:25,050 --> 00:39:28,140 played it and any other statistics moving forward or 639 00:39:28,140 --> 00:39:33,090 whatever. And we actually got some, like older musicians who 640 00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,730 owned some different material they owned outright and they 641 00:39:35,730 --> 00:39:39,240 were putting it up there. But of course, the value of just a bit 642 00:39:39,240 --> 00:39:45,480 of exposure on podcast wasn't very satisfactory. And I was 643 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:50,190 thinking if we had a similar type of setup, this is what 644 00:39:50,190 --> 00:39:54,480 podcast index, in essence outside of the decentralization 645 00:39:54,510 --> 00:39:58,560 of the information was set up to do is to take out the Performing 646 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:03,000 Rights Organizations to Remove these big black boxes, where 647 00:40:03,060 --> 00:40:07,050 your songs played on the radio. And 48 months later, a penny 648 00:40:07,050 --> 00:40:10,170 drips out the other end, you know, forget about the 649 00:40:10,170 --> 00:40:13,590 streaming, that's all the record companies, they get most of that 650 00:40:13,590 --> 00:40:17,520 money. That's that's a, it's a complete joke. They own 651 00:40:18,210 --> 00:40:22,110 significant stakes in Spotify. I mean, that's, it's it's really a 652 00:40:22,110 --> 00:40:27,180 cartel if you ask me. So the idea would be, if you have if 653 00:40:27,180 --> 00:40:31,080 you play a song or a number of songs, I get 100 songs on your 654 00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:36,120 show, you put in the value block splits and sub splits. So there 655 00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:39,480 should be a band block. And that band block has its own 656 00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,720 subdivision, amongst the bass player, the singer, the 657 00:40:42,720 --> 00:40:47,190 composer, the writer could be the same people. And then each 658 00:40:47,190 --> 00:40:51,660 payment piece goes to the podcast, and then whatever split 659 00:40:51,660 --> 00:40:55,710 you determine, goes to the individuals who just like a 660 00:40:55,710 --> 00:40:59,250 producer of that actual podcast, you could send that split to the 661 00:40:59,250 --> 00:41:00,930 band to the band block. 662 00:41:01,740 --> 00:41:05,850 Yeah, that said that. Did you see that thing that? That I 663 00:41:05,850 --> 00:41:10,650 tweeted yesterday of listening to the lightning music store? 664 00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:14,640 Oh, yeah. Wait, isn't that um, that is that a an app that they 665 00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:15,810 made for Sphinx? 666 00:41:16,470 --> 00:41:19,320 That's no, that's a breeze. I was listening to that on breeze. 667 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:25,290 So lightning lightning dot. Where's this? URL? Lightning 668 00:41:25,290 --> 00:41:26,100 does store the 669 00:41:26,310 --> 00:41:30,000 name is Sam. Oh, it's in there. Oh, it's in their marketplace? 670 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:32,760 What apps, their app sections what it's called, I guess? 671 00:41:33,090 --> 00:41:35,700 Well, if you if you go into breeze and just search for a 672 00:41:35,700 --> 00:41:37,800 podcast called lightning music store. 673 00:41:37,890 --> 00:41:42,510 Oh, hold on a second. I misunderstood 674 00:41:42,720 --> 00:41:46,890 yet. Interesting that that is essential. That is essentially 675 00:41:46,890 --> 00:41:52,650 an album of music in podcast form. And it's it's good music. 676 00:41:52,770 --> 00:41:56,370 And um, it just don't. I helped him get on get his. 677 00:41:56,730 --> 00:41:58,890 Oh, my goodness, this is great. 678 00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:02,070 Yeah, helping get his podcasts listed. And I started listening 679 00:42:02,070 --> 00:42:06,420 to it. And I was like, Oh, well, I'm listening to an album in 680 00:42:06,420 --> 00:42:08,010 breeze and he's getting sets. 681 00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:11,370 So here's the guy that we need to know another example of how 682 00:42:11,370 --> 00:42:15,600 we need to be able to do the splits outside of the RSS feed, 683 00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:17,160 obviously, because that's going to be a while. 684 00:42:17,850 --> 00:42:23,790 Yeah, I mean, like that. So I'm thinking stuff like this makes a 685 00:42:23,820 --> 00:42:29,010 thing like pod verse. like super beneficial. Because you have 686 00:42:29,010 --> 00:42:31,650 like, if people start doing music, if they start doing 687 00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:33,540 albums as podcasts, oh, 688 00:42:33,540 --> 00:42:34,080 man, 689 00:42:34,170 --> 00:42:38,700 bunion you talk about having like clips mid Yeah, 690 00:42:38,730 --> 00:42:39,660 talk to us, bro. 691 00:42:41,310 --> 00:42:44,700 I love the idea of, you know, direct artists to audience 692 00:42:44,700 --> 00:42:48,300 connection, cut out the middleman and process the 693 00:42:48,300 --> 00:42:50,820 payments directly. I think that'd be great. And there is 694 00:42:50,820 --> 00:42:55,650 absolutely the possibility to take music into podcasting as 695 00:42:55,650 --> 00:43:00,420 well. Who knows what's possible with RSS feeds? Alone? Like? 696 00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:02,280 Yeah, 697 00:43:02,310 --> 00:43:04,230 we'd love to be able to support, you 698 00:43:04,230 --> 00:43:07,860 know, in regards to this, and I know he's listening my my 699 00:43:07,860 --> 00:43:13,200 friend, but my partner Mo, Mo facts show. And that's the title 700 00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:18,660 for today's podcast in 2.0 board meeting, he saw he saw the Max 701 00:43:18,660 --> 00:43:22,380 Keiser, and Stacy Herbert bit. Yesterday they were talking 702 00:43:22,380 --> 00:43:27,660 about about podcasting. 2.0. And, well, you know, everyone's 703 00:43:27,660 --> 00:43:30,240 all over the map, you know, it's a it's breeze, it's shrinks. 704 00:43:30,240 --> 00:43:32,670 It's the shrinks model. It's the breeze network and whatever it 705 00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:35,490 doesn't doesn't really matter that that doesn't matter that 706 00:43:35,490 --> 00:43:39,990 much. And Moe all of a sudden that clicked. And we text 707 00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:44,490 regularly during the week. And he says, Oh my god, I get it. 708 00:43:44,820 --> 00:43:48,270 This is your RSS feed is your ticket to freedom that is your 709 00:43:48,270 --> 00:43:51,900 that is that is you. You send out the value through your feed 710 00:43:51,900 --> 00:43:55,530 comes back through through the lightning network. And he said 711 00:43:55,530 --> 00:43:59,550 you are truly digital Ave abolitionists and had to think 712 00:43:59,550 --> 00:44:02,640 about it for a second. You know, I was like, because it's a 713 00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:05,760 really weighted word, particularly coming from Moe. 714 00:44:06,060 --> 00:44:10,440 And like, he said, what I believed him to be saying is we 715 00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:16,710 are helping people out of the digital slavery getting in in 716 00:44:16,710 --> 00:44:19,560 the digital world, but taking away from the digital slavery 717 00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:22,080 that exists within that world. And did you clip that from the 718 00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:25,290 orange pill that bit that Max was talking about the business 719 00:44:25,290 --> 00:44:30,210 model of the Silicon Valley? I was while I was trying not to be 720 00:44:30,210 --> 00:44:32,970 distracted by the crazy get up that Max was wearing 721 00:44:33,690 --> 00:44:35,250 the white hair on the shades? 722 00:44:36,570 --> 00:44:37,260 Yes, I did. 723 00:44:37,830 --> 00:44:41,880 You know when you have, I don't know 1000 or 10,000 Bitcoin or 724 00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:46,080 100,000 Bitcoin in, in cold storage somewhere, anywhere, 725 00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:52,770 whatever you want. This was and and I really appreciate what 726 00:44:52,770 --> 00:44:58,020 they did, because they understand exactly the overall 727 00:44:58,020 --> 00:45:00,810 concept and there's a lot of weeds that the People are wading 728 00:45:00,810 --> 00:45:03,570 through. So what's happening here? But they really got it. So 729 00:45:03,570 --> 00:45:04,320 I'll play this. 730 00:45:05,429 --> 00:45:10,559 Yeah, it's Adam Curry, the prod father is really relaunched. 731 00:45:10,559 --> 00:45:15,659 He's the re repop. Launching podcasting to point out, this is 732 00:45:15,659 --> 00:45:20,219 the newest thing, he's totally got some fantastic product up 733 00:45:20,219 --> 00:45:23,069 there and running in your streaming sets, you know, then I 734 00:45:23,069 --> 00:45:26,459 can see on my, my Twitter feed that the podcasters and 735 00:45:26,459 --> 00:45:29,189 everybody are taking this immediately, it's got traction 736 00:45:29,219 --> 00:45:35,009 instantaneously. And, you know, lasers can stream sets to to the 737 00:45:35,009 --> 00:45:39,359 creators and start off at the de minimis level of, I think, five 738 00:45:39,359 --> 00:45:42,869 cents an hour or something like that. And you can you pick and 739 00:45:42,869 --> 00:45:48,449 choose. And this is going to really challenge the current 740 00:45:48,479 --> 00:45:53,909 market, the current status of social media is everyone gives 741 00:45:53,939 --> 00:45:57,689 all the people in Silicon Valley all have their talent for free, 742 00:45:58,019 --> 00:46:03,749 and they get nothing. That model is ripe for disruption. Looks 743 00:46:03,749 --> 00:46:06,059 like Adam Curry has sorted it and he figured it out. He said, 744 00:46:06,059 --> 00:46:08,759 Wait a minute, why don't we actually have a two way exchange 745 00:46:08,759 --> 00:46:13,979 so that creators and consumers have a market? And let's get rid 746 00:46:13,979 --> 00:46:18,419 of all these gatekeepers and pirates, with these social media 747 00:46:18,419 --> 00:46:19,979 sites? And that's what he's done. 748 00:46:22,380 --> 00:46:26,400 crack me up. I mean, it's so true. It's such a boil that 749 00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:29,370 down. So Silicon Valley, social medias, like it gives them 750 00:46:29,370 --> 00:46:30,570 everything you get nothing. 751 00:46:31,590 --> 00:46:33,000 That's their business model is 752 00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:37,620 the business model is beautiful. Yeah. Now there was a good 753 00:46:37,620 --> 00:46:40,440 question posed. And I want to get Mitchell's opinion on this 754 00:46:40,470 --> 00:46:44,730 by Stephen Bell, on the mastodon. Now, how the how the 755 00:46:44,730 --> 00:46:50,280 developers are feeling about diving into lightning network, 756 00:46:50,820 --> 00:46:54,030 do in some hybrid models like the Ellen pay, which I think 757 00:46:54,030 --> 00:46:56,100 you're implementing? Mitch, it's, you know, there's, 758 00:46:56,130 --> 00:46:58,320 there's, you know, who was holding what, and who's 759 00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:00,930 responsible for what? And his question I think was really 760 00:47:00,930 --> 00:47:04,620 good. It's like, hey, how do all you guys feel about it? What 761 00:47:04,650 --> 00:47:07,860 what you know, and there were some interesting answers. And 762 00:47:07,860 --> 00:47:09,690 I'd love to hear your take on it, Mitch. 763 00:47:10,409 --> 00:47:15,719 Yeah. At a high level, it's not that difficult. It makes sense 764 00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:18,599 that what I have had trickiness is just setting up a node 765 00:47:18,599 --> 00:47:23,039 personally. But if that could be offloaded to a third party 766 00:47:23,039 --> 00:47:26,069 service, you know, we're just putting small sums of money in 767 00:47:26,099 --> 00:47:29,849 then that problem would be solved immediately. So I'm 768 00:47:29,849 --> 00:47:32,759 impressed by how easy it seems to be to be able to make this 769 00:47:32,759 --> 00:47:34,799 work within the Bitcoin lightning network. 770 00:47:35,340 --> 00:47:41,340 Nice. And this, I wanted to mention satoshis stream satoshis 771 00:47:41,340 --> 00:47:42,690 dot stream? 772 00:47:44,070 --> 00:47:46,350 Well, you're gonna tell me what this is. Because Yeah, I've just 773 00:47:46,350 --> 00:47:50,010 been not being I have not understood like, I've been in 774 00:47:50,010 --> 00:47:51,840 and out so much. I haven't even figured out what this is. 775 00:47:51,930 --> 00:47:56,220 Well, so there's two things to this. And then we all the 776 00:47:56,250 --> 00:47:59,940 podcast index crew had a fun experience with one side this 777 00:47:59,940 --> 00:48:04,650 morning, as we start to kind of meld these two worlds together. 778 00:48:04,860 --> 00:48:09,480 So as we'll discuss in a moment, the the lightning Bitcoin 779 00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:16,740 network, people and developers don't know much about podcasting 780 00:48:16,740 --> 00:48:20,580 development and what that means and what users and creators 781 00:48:21,210 --> 00:48:27,000 expect. So simultaneously, it's very complex for people who 782 00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:32,370 really understand podcasting to get their hands quickly around 783 00:48:33,390 --> 00:48:39,120 the notion of how lightning and Greven crypto in general works. 784 00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:42,690 It's counterintuitive. And because of its anonymity and 785 00:48:42,690 --> 00:48:46,860 decentralization, the typical way someone pays you is you send 786 00:48:46,860 --> 00:48:51,360 them an invoice first, this is not Venmo Venmo feels very 787 00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:53,610 differently. And so you know, you have people solving that 788 00:48:53,610 --> 00:48:59,400 problem in those ways. But to set up a node is and there will 789 00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:02,550 be podcaster nodes, that's an offering Brees is going to be 790 00:49:02,550 --> 00:49:07,950 doing. And I believe it'll just be on the same breeze app they 791 00:49:07,950 --> 00:49:12,000 have in their payment structure. They have information coming 792 00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:17,850 through show show name, Episode, name, I think and then was it a 793 00:49:17,850 --> 00:49:21,840 stream or was it a boost. So they will have some reporting 794 00:49:21,900 --> 00:49:25,890 then and that functionality I think will also be available 795 00:49:25,890 --> 00:49:30,450 outside of outside of the breeze app for you. So you can connect 796 00:49:30,450 --> 00:49:34,770 your any any wallet or anything to it. But what Satoshi stream 797 00:49:34,770 --> 00:49:37,620 is doing is a bunch of and I think these are all Dutch 798 00:49:37,650 --> 00:49:41,970 people. And if you look at the the bubble chart, which I'll put 799 00:49:41,970 --> 00:49:47,880 in the show notes, you can see that I think it's lightning 800 00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:52,230 watch is a pretty big node in the network that's theirs. And 801 00:49:52,230 --> 00:49:56,460 so they have a little community on telegram and they've set up a 802 00:49:56,460 --> 00:49:59,970 node with Uncle Jim and Uncle Jim. No 803 00:50:00,780 --> 00:50:01,410 No, 804 00:50:03,989 --> 00:50:05,189 we met your racist. 805 00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:06,630 How about 806 00:50:09,150 --> 00:50:14,850 let's use a Dutch name instead of Jim. Oh use uncle young uncle 807 00:50:14,850 --> 00:50:16,710 young node j n 808 00:50:18,029 --> 00:50:19,409 non non racist. 809 00:50:20,189 --> 00:50:24,149 This is not non racist, unless it's black paper, black. 810 00:50:26,249 --> 00:50:31,319 Alright, so they set up a Black Pete node. And in the end, so 811 00:50:31,319 --> 00:50:34,529 you have a little private I think a virtual node within 812 00:50:34,529 --> 00:50:38,399 there, but you control it completely with telegram 813 00:50:38,399 --> 00:50:41,579 commands. And and what they're doing is they're saying come 814 00:50:41,579 --> 00:50:47,069 over here, we'll help you understand how node works. And 815 00:50:47,249 --> 00:50:51,659 we'll immediately and here's the path, you know, come over here, 816 00:50:51,689 --> 00:50:55,319 then go to podcast or wallet COMM And then we will help you 817 00:50:55,349 --> 00:50:59,819 understand how it works. And you know, it's a complete custodial 818 00:50:59,819 --> 00:51:03,509 service, they hold the keys, anything can go wrong. But the 819 00:51:03,509 --> 00:51:06,359 point is, once you get it working, you can you know, 820 00:51:06,359 --> 00:51:09,689 transfer your money out whenever you want to another wallet back 821 00:51:09,689 --> 00:51:12,299 to your and your own breeze, wallet, whatever it is. But once 822 00:51:12,299 --> 00:51:14,879 you have an understanding, then you can take that knowledge and 823 00:51:14,879 --> 00:51:17,339 set up your own note at home where we will know what to look 824 00:51:17,339 --> 00:51:20,699 for if you're getting one from one of the multiple vendors. So 825 00:51:20,699 --> 00:51:23,369 it's it's a it's an it's a community, right? So there's 826 00:51:23,369 --> 00:51:28,019 people sitting there all day and night, ready to help you out. 827 00:51:28,380 --> 00:51:29,490 It's training wheels, 828 00:51:29,519 --> 00:51:34,709 it's Yes, it's Thank you. It's the Satoshi stream training 829 00:51:34,709 --> 00:51:40,829 wheels precisely. And it's also it's also kind of just fun to 830 00:51:40,829 --> 00:51:45,569 interact with your node that way. Just like you know, like a 831 00:51:45,629 --> 00:51:49,769 command line that you couldn't control from, from your telegram 832 00:51:49,769 --> 00:51:50,039 app. 833 00:51:51,630 --> 00:51:54,810 The node seems like the most complex piece to get people on 834 00:51:54,810 --> 00:51:58,320 boarded with. So if that can be offloaded to a third party, that 835 00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:01,830 would be awesome. Like for pod versus plan, we're going to 836 00:52:01,830 --> 00:52:04,560 integrate with Ellen pay, which simplifies the whole process to 837 00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:08,910 go through their API. But it would be awesome if breeze has 838 00:52:08,910 --> 00:52:12,210 some sort of external integration possibility where 839 00:52:12,210 --> 00:52:15,750 the user can just like, log in with their breeze wallet and 840 00:52:15,750 --> 00:52:19,440 connected to pod verse and then make use of our additional 841 00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:23,880 podcast app features while using the breeze wallet protocols and 842 00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:25,800 the process. Oh, say that again? 843 00:52:26,850 --> 00:52:29,790 Say again, we kind of want to make sure I understand. Well, 844 00:52:31,110 --> 00:52:34,710 I imagine if if breeze, if you said that they're going to 845 00:52:34,710 --> 00:52:36,990 handle the node for an individual 846 00:52:37,139 --> 00:52:39,359 while the node for the proton Well, for podcaster 847 00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:43,680 or a podcaster? Well, I was thinking in my head that if for 848 00:52:43,680 --> 00:52:47,640 a new user, perhaps breeze would have a fully functioning 849 00:52:47,790 --> 00:52:51,840 lightning node, user experience it well. 850 00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:57,480 So for what we're doing, they indeed have done something 851 00:52:57,480 --> 00:53:01,770 quite, seemingly quite impossible. They have moved 852 00:53:02,130 --> 00:53:05,910 pretty much the entire node, you do have a full node in your 853 00:53:05,910 --> 00:53:09,390 pocket, you can address it as even a command line under the 854 00:53:09,420 --> 00:53:15,900 developers menu, you can do all your lncc li commands. But it's 855 00:53:15,930 --> 00:53:20,940 not fully yours because they manage the channels for you. And 856 00:53:20,940 --> 00:53:24,750 they take care of making sure that that's funded so that you 857 00:53:24,750 --> 00:53:27,330 actually don't have to worry about it. And because and when 858 00:53:27,330 --> 00:53:32,760 it's online, and they have a very smart algorithmic payment 859 00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:36,450 storage system. So even stuff you've listened to offline or if 860 00:53:36,450 --> 00:53:40,170 a node may not be available, temporary, temporarily or a 861 00:53:40,170 --> 00:53:44,940 route, he will store that. Or it will store it until the network 862 00:53:44,940 --> 00:53:48,360 fees are the acceptable ratio to send because he's all very low 863 00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:51,360 amounts, you don't want to be paying the same amount of fees 864 00:53:51,360 --> 00:54:00,570 as the payment itself. And but receiving is is almost 865 00:54:00,570 --> 00:54:04,890 impossible on a mobile on a mobile app, which is why you I 866 00:54:04,890 --> 00:54:10,380 think what they're doing is you can have your, your podcast or 867 00:54:10,380 --> 00:54:14,550 node connected to your existing app as a podcaster. So that you 868 00:54:14,550 --> 00:54:19,440 can use that to receive. But I don't think you can tap into the 869 00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:22,500 mobile wallet to use it for other podcast apps if that's 870 00:54:22,500 --> 00:54:23,310 what you're asking. 871 00:54:23,819 --> 00:54:26,219 Okay, gotcha. Well, yeah, that would be ideal from our 872 00:54:26,219 --> 00:54:29,459 perspective. I mean, we would love to add any crypto 873 00:54:29,459 --> 00:54:32,159 processing features we can within the app, but you know, 874 00:54:32,159 --> 00:54:35,369 our primary focus is to make the best podcast listening 875 00:54:35,369 --> 00:54:38,759 experience. So of course, leverage other people's 876 00:54:38,759 --> 00:54:42,599 resources and, you know, connect our apps in a meaningful way 877 00:54:42,599 --> 00:54:44,369 that would be ideal from our perspective, 878 00:54:44,399 --> 00:54:45,929 you know, go ahead, 879 00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:46,830 no, no, please go. 880 00:54:47,310 --> 00:54:51,390 You know, I think I think one thing that may be interesting to 881 00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:57,060 talk about here is the fact that you know, what, everybody needs 882 00:54:57,060 --> 00:55:02,910 to get a piece of of the so to speak, when it comes to this 883 00:55:03,510 --> 00:55:07,500 sort of new paradigm. And it's not just the podcasters. But you 884 00:55:07,500 --> 00:55:10,170 know, what we've talked about from day one is that pot the 885 00:55:10,170 --> 00:55:14,700 podcaster? They Yeah, they'll get the lion's share, because 886 00:55:14,700 --> 00:55:17,400 they create the content, that all down the chain, there's 887 00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:20,370 other people adding value. Exactly. There's the ad, there's 888 00:55:20,370 --> 00:55:23,100 the the app that you listen to it on. There's the hosting 889 00:55:23,100 --> 00:55:27,780 company. There's analytics people, there's people like, 890 00:55:28,170 --> 00:55:32,970 there's the services like pod verse, which have, which offer 891 00:55:32,970 --> 00:55:37,710 sort of the tangential service of clipping and other value add 892 00:55:37,710 --> 00:55:43,530 things on top of a podcast. And so like, any way that did a 893 00:55:43,530 --> 00:55:49,500 service, like pod verse, can sort of attach itself to that 894 00:55:49,500 --> 00:55:53,070 value chain, to me is not only legitimate, but necessary, 895 00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:58,290 correctly. So if you have, and, and I guess the way that would 896 00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:02,340 that would play itself out is, you know, when I go to pay for 897 00:56:02,340 --> 00:56:07,470 pod verse, but when I go to pod verse, and I make a clip, like I 898 00:56:07,470 --> 00:56:11,340 did yesterday, last night, you know, there's, there's the 899 00:56:11,340 --> 00:56:17,670 aspect of, I'm a, I'm a paying customer, but then also, that 900 00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:21,150 the clip the Creator, when I, when I clip that there's 901 00:56:21,150 --> 00:56:25,290 probably there needs to be some other way where the podcaster 902 00:56:25,290 --> 00:56:29,190 can get the value when people listen to that clip. And at the 903 00:56:29,190 --> 00:56:29,940 same time, 904 00:56:29,940 --> 00:56:32,250 parsers compression a percentage? And how about the 905 00:56:32,250 --> 00:56:34,200 person who created the clip gets a piece? 906 00:56:34,530 --> 00:56:37,710 Yeah. Yeah, like your throat? There's, you're throwing that 907 00:56:37,710 --> 00:56:38,640 back? Right? 908 00:56:38,639 --> 00:56:42,239 multiple, multiple ways. Yeah. So this is where it gets very, 909 00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:45,659 very beautiful. And this is the gap that I'm trying to close. 910 00:56:45,689 --> 00:56:51,569 Let me see if I can tackle this. So we had, I had a very nice 911 00:56:51,569 --> 00:56:56,729 chat with Roy at breeze this morning. And we both apologize 912 00:56:56,729 --> 00:57:00,239 to each other. It was interesting. He said, Adam, I 913 00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:06,869 apologize. I did not think it all the way through what kind of 914 00:57:07,349 --> 00:57:12,269 users I would be encountering by entering the podcast space. He 915 00:57:12,269 --> 00:57:16,469 says, I completely am familiar and comfortable with the 916 00:57:16,469 --> 00:57:20,099 lightning and Bitcoin space. And, you know, there's all my 917 00:57:20,099 --> 00:57:23,039 god, you know, there's a whole global banking system that is 918 00:57:23,129 --> 00:57:27,149 against people like, like breeze and swings, you know, they don't 919 00:57:27,149 --> 00:57:32,159 like it at all. But he said, You know, I'm really, I'm struggling 920 00:57:32,159 --> 00:57:34,589 with a whole bunch of things. And I said, Oh, my God, I'm 921 00:57:34,589 --> 00:57:39,479 sorry, I didn't prepare you. And so here's an example. There was 922 00:57:39,479 --> 00:57:46,679 a podcast, that additive value block popped up. And Roy got an 923 00:57:46,679 --> 00:57:49,349 you know, a couple of emails and some posts and people saying, 924 00:57:49,349 --> 00:57:56,309 you know, why is that filth being shown? And that now, you 925 00:57:56,309 --> 00:57:58,799 know, the way Brees has it set up is they're only surfacing 926 00:57:58,799 --> 00:58:01,199 podcast with value blocks that we talked about. So this is 927 00:58:01,199 --> 00:58:03,359 someone's like, oh, cool, I'm going to be an early adopter, 928 00:58:03,359 --> 00:58:08,009 I'm going to jump in there. And you know, that, that just the 929 00:58:08,009 --> 00:58:11,609 sight of that person's name is can be triggering to some 930 00:58:11,609 --> 00:58:14,969 people. And he didn't know how to handle it. And he literally 931 00:58:14,969 --> 00:58:17,429 said, I'm looking for guidance, because I don't know, what do I 932 00:58:17,429 --> 00:58:20,429 do? I mean, I said, Well, you know, what we what we can't do? 933 00:58:21,209 --> 00:58:24,629 He said, yeah, we can't censor say we can't block. You know, 934 00:58:24,659 --> 00:58:28,889 we're, that's we won't do that. In fact, we had an internal pre 935 00:58:28,889 --> 00:58:32,789 board meeting. And, you know, we said this, like three reasons 936 00:58:32,789 --> 00:58:36,569 something would be taken off. One was for security or safety 937 00:58:36,599 --> 00:58:40,349 of the index itself, if someone's hacking spamming, etc. 938 00:58:40,649 --> 00:58:47,189 and two is if it's a, like a legal, valid legal takedown by 939 00:58:47,189 --> 00:58:51,089 some legal entity in jurist jurisdiction or a DMCA, so the 940 00:58:51,269 --> 00:58:55,829 copyright violation, and there's no Step three, it's those two, 941 00:58:55,889 --> 00:59:00,179 that's it. And so at the same time, I'm like, you know what, 942 00:59:00,179 --> 00:59:02,519 let me just give you a couple other things. And then I 943 00:59:02,519 --> 00:59:05,909 apologize because I was so excited about getting podcasting 944 00:59:05,909 --> 00:59:09,329 working with lightning that I overlooked Well, they already 945 00:59:09,329 --> 00:59:12,059 did one thing they they got chapters they put chapters in 946 00:59:12,059 --> 00:59:16,139 from the launch fantastic, but didn't understand the dynamic 947 00:59:16,139 --> 00:59:20,519 nature. So if you look at the no agenda, part even this one, I'm 948 00:59:20,519 --> 00:59:25,049 sure when it's published, it'll say you know, help create 949 00:59:25,049 --> 00:59:30,029 chapters at at hypercasual calm and because they cache it, and 950 00:59:30,059 --> 00:59:33,989 it still has the same image for from two shows ago. It doesn't 951 00:59:33,989 --> 00:59:37,019 matter with peace with the podcasting 2.0 but it does with 952 00:59:37,019 --> 00:59:39,299 no agenda, because they're caching it so it's just stuff he 953 00:59:39,299 --> 00:59:43,709 didn't know. He had no idea and for us it's second nature right? 954 00:59:43,709 --> 00:59:46,589 We're like Ah, now he got the two times speed but what what do 955 00:59:46,589 --> 00:59:50,009 I see in the telegram group, so it comes in? Well, we need to 956 00:59:50,009 --> 00:59:53,639 have three times three times speed playback three times. Oh, 957 00:59:54,540 --> 00:59:57,570 my God, what kind of drugs is this girl and 958 00:59:57,659 --> 01:00:00,599 enjoys like what we have two times Yeah. But if you go to 959 01:00:00,599 --> 01:00:03,299 antenna pod and you hold down, you can customize it to three 960 01:00:03,299 --> 01:00:08,519 side three times fate. Thank you very, very, very excited about 961 01:00:08,519 --> 01:00:09,029 the whole thing. 962 01:00:09,359 --> 01:00:10,529 Yeah, Betty was. 963 01:00:11,759 --> 01:00:14,009 So what's all these little nuances, you know? And so I'm 964 01:00:14,009 --> 01:00:16,319 like, Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make a little hitlist for you. 965 01:00:16,499 --> 01:00:22,199 So what we're seeing here is the two worlds not not understanding 966 01:00:22,199 --> 01:00:24,509 enough about each other right now. Because the things that 967 01:00:24,509 --> 01:00:30,809 you're saying, Mitch, holy crap. I mean, how, and also Dave, what 968 01:00:30,809 --> 01:00:33,539 you just said, if you put that all together, and you have 969 01:00:33,569 --> 01:00:38,639 within, let's just say for argument's sake, virtually, my 970 01:00:38,669 --> 01:00:42,089 my pod verse app is a wallet at the same time, just like breeze. 971 01:00:42,689 --> 01:00:47,009 Think of all the crazy shit you can do, then you because then I 972 01:00:47,009 --> 01:00:51,299 am receiving me, for the work I'm doing on that app, it 973 01:00:51,299 --> 01:00:55,799 becomes highly interactive. Because I create a clip, the 974 01:00:55,799 --> 01:00:59,339 clip goes out there, I promote the clip, the clip gets played, 975 01:00:59,699 --> 01:01:02,909 the app gets a piece, the podcaster gets a piece and I get 976 01:01:02,909 --> 01:01:07,559 a piece. Now that now now as as my friend in Alabama would say 977 01:01:07,559 --> 01:01:08,819 you're cooking with gas. 978 01:01:10,889 --> 01:01:14,849 sounds incredible to me. Yeah. I'd say since we're a free and 979 01:01:14,849 --> 01:01:18,179 open source project, that it would be a perfect fit with our, 980 01:01:18,449 --> 01:01:21,179 with what we're doing here. Because we're our priorities are 981 01:01:21,179 --> 01:01:24,689 not fundamentally to make as much money as possible, but to 982 01:01:25,259 --> 01:01:29,909 deliver the most value to our users and the podcasters. So and 983 01:01:29,909 --> 01:01:32,819 the clip creators themselves, because they're content 984 01:01:32,819 --> 01:01:36,629 creators. So yeah, I think it would fit in perfectly. Yeah, 985 01:01:36,659 --> 01:01:36,989 man, 986 01:01:36,990 --> 01:01:40,830 I can I can just imagine, like the army of clip creators that 987 01:01:40,830 --> 01:01:44,580 would come and show up and like feeding clips directly to shows 988 01:01:44,580 --> 01:01:48,210 like no agenda. But if they knew that they could share in the 989 01:01:48,210 --> 01:01:49,920 value of that, of creating that. 990 01:01:50,429 --> 01:01:56,969 So here's what we need. And I don't I mean, lm Putin was great 991 01:01:57,089 --> 01:02:00,479 LMP he has a whole business there. So this is new, and he 992 01:02:00,479 --> 01:02:04,199 has to make his own evaluations. And by the way, he's been super 993 01:02:04,199 --> 01:02:08,939 helpful. We had a routing routing problem for some of the 994 01:02:08,939 --> 01:02:14,459 breeze payments to swings. And, and I spent at least six hours 995 01:02:14,459 --> 01:02:18,029 yesterday, with all three parties, including Graham at 996 01:02:18,029 --> 01:02:21,749 voltage trying to figure out why some payments were failing. And 997 01:02:21,809 --> 01:02:25,229 we could see that the routes were just not there. So I sent 998 01:02:25,229 --> 01:02:29,459 him a message say, Yo, I see you got a channel from from breeze, 999 01:02:29,459 --> 01:02:32,489 can you route to the swings, notice he had no problem. Boom, 1000 01:02:32,609 --> 01:02:35,729 there you go. Look at the bubble graph, you can see, you can see 1001 01:02:35,729 --> 01:02:40,259 that he's almost the gateway for breeze into the network. I mean, 1002 01:02:40,259 --> 01:02:41,909 it's it's phenomenal. So what we need 1003 01:02:41,939 --> 01:02:46,829 is, that's like it. Tim is like the most unassuming guy ever. 1004 01:02:47,279 --> 01:02:51,389 Loving. He's like the most chill dude. But he's also he's the set 1005 01:02:51,389 --> 01:02:53,579 this guy's deceptively intelligent. 1006 01:02:53,670 --> 01:03:00,870 Exactly. So what we need, I think, Mitch, is we need someone 1007 01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:06,930 who has a service, very much like Ellen pay with the app 1008 01:03:06,930 --> 01:03:09,480 because Ellen pays taking responsibility because they are 1009 01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:18,690 custodial. For for those wallets that that you're using. If Let 1010 01:03:18,690 --> 01:03:22,530 me see if I can phrase this right. It says you have an uncle 1011 01:03:22,530 --> 01:03:27,360 Yon node situation where which is kind of in between where it's 1012 01:03:27,360 --> 01:03:31,350 noncustodial. But you still could get fuck somewhere. So 1013 01:03:31,350 --> 01:03:35,040 there's some trust involved in that. But the service would be 1014 01:03:35,310 --> 01:03:40,830 here's an API for wallets. But what else do you need? Someone 1015 01:03:40,830 --> 01:03:44,640 who's thinking with us? And is because think about the 1016 01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:47,610 business? I mean, if I were a younger man, I would be doing 1017 01:03:47,610 --> 01:03:50,490 this already. But like, holy shit, I'm setting up nodes. I'm 1018 01:03:50,490 --> 01:03:54,480 providing this. I'm building API's for podcast apps, because 1019 01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:59,010 we're never going to get those to me. So right now, anyone 1020 01:03:59,010 --> 01:04:02,910 who's in the wallet business has a very rich API to do stuff with 1021 01:04:03,180 --> 01:04:07,980 we the index has created so much value there. But we don't have 1022 01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:13,200 is the counterparty on the node back end infrastructure 1023 01:04:13,380 --> 01:04:16,920 business, who can provide that service with, you know, thinking 1024 01:04:16,920 --> 01:04:19,860 with us going Oh, shit, okay, you need an API. So we can 1025 01:04:19,860 --> 01:04:22,890 somehow do these clips and get and get the person who's using 1026 01:04:22,890 --> 01:04:26,040 the app paid as well hold my beer. That's what I'm that's 1027 01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:26,910 what we're looking for. 1028 01:04:27,780 --> 01:04:30,960 Yeah, if somebody wanted to take on that challenge, I mean, it 1029 01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:35,100 would be fair for us to include a split of the value payments to 1030 01:04:35,100 --> 01:04:38,220 them for integrating allowing us to integrate with their 1031 01:04:38,220 --> 01:04:38,940 technology, 1032 01:04:39,540 --> 01:04:44,790 of course, and I think that and by the way, that's the beauty of 1033 01:04:44,790 --> 01:04:47,880 this community, everybody gets paid. If you don't get paid, 1034 01:04:47,910 --> 01:04:50,220 this is not going to happen. It's not going to work. And 1035 01:04:50,220 --> 01:04:54,360 since we're dealing with literal payments of you know, 1,000th of 1036 01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:59,520 a cent. It works out quite well over time. So Satoshi stream 1037 01:04:59,640 --> 01:05:03,930 that Take 1%, I think when you transfer your money out of their 1038 01:05:03,930 --> 01:05:06,510 wallet, so they make a little bit so they get a little bit, 1039 01:05:06,540 --> 01:05:07,500 they get a little fee. 1040 01:05:08,519 --> 01:05:10,889 And that's why I like seeing this. I like seeing these 1041 01:05:10,889 --> 01:05:16,379 payment models sort of emerge is because the the 1%, when you 1042 01:05:16,379 --> 01:05:20,159 take stuff out seems to be becoming a standard from from 1043 01:05:20,159 --> 01:05:22,889 what I've seen. Yeah, I 1044 01:05:22,890 --> 01:05:26,640 think that's what Tim is doing to at LMP. 1045 01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:30,300 Yeah, as far as if, if I understood him, right. He 1046 01:05:30,300 --> 01:05:33,990 doesn't take any, any cut until you transfer it to transfer 1047 01:05:33,990 --> 01:05:35,220 it out. Which makes sense. 1048 01:05:35,370 --> 01:05:38,940 Yeah, that seems like a totally fair thing that makes makes a 1049 01:05:38,940 --> 01:05:41,730 lot of sense. It's like a, Nick, because we, when we first talked 1050 01:05:41,730 --> 01:05:44,160 to him, he was like, we're like, why are you gonna make money? 1051 01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:44,850 He's like, I don't know. 1052 01:05:46,469 --> 01:05:50,549 Well, I'm looking at breeze. And you know, and they've been very 1053 01:05:50,549 --> 01:05:53,189 clear. And I love that they're very transparent. And they show 1054 01:05:53,189 --> 01:05:59,339 you right up front, we're taking 5%. And if you if you go look at 1055 01:05:59,339 --> 01:06:03,299 their documentation, they say, and here's why. And Holy crap, 1056 01:06:03,299 --> 01:06:06,629 they're doing a lot for you. They're really doing a lot and 1057 01:06:06,659 --> 01:06:09,269 they're making money. So Mitch, I know you're doing this to 1058 01:06:09,329 --> 01:06:16,739 primarily for a great podcast experience. I think, I think you 1059 01:06:16,739 --> 01:06:19,529 should be able to make a living off of this. 1060 01:06:21,480 --> 01:06:25,440 Yeah, that's the dream. It's not our top priority. It's we're 1061 01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:30,600 trying to deliver value first and then monetize later. But it 1062 01:06:30,690 --> 01:06:33,630 you know, we're going to explore this direction with the value 1063 01:06:33,630 --> 01:06:37,920 tag, and have other open ended donation features, maybe come up 1064 01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:41,760 with some reward tiers for memberships and stuff like that. 1065 01:06:42,510 --> 01:06:46,260 But yeah, we're going to focus on innovating first, and growing 1066 01:06:46,260 --> 01:06:49,080 our user base before we really try to figure out the 1067 01:06:49,080 --> 01:06:52,140 monetization angle because at this current time, it's it's not 1068 01:06:52,140 --> 01:06:56,220 overwhelming for our expenses to to support this as it is, 1069 01:06:56,280 --> 01:06:59,700 what do you do in? Is this your full time? Your full time job? 1070 01:06:59,700 --> 01:07:01,590 Or do you do something else? full time? Oh, no. 1071 01:07:02,130 --> 01:07:05,040 I have a full time job. Yeah, I'm a I'm a software engineer 1072 01:07:05,100 --> 01:07:07,230 for a company in my day job doing mostly front end 1073 01:07:07,230 --> 01:07:07,800 engineering. 1074 01:07:08,880 --> 01:07:12,330 I love that. I don't think there's nothing anyone has. Has. 1075 01:07:12,330 --> 01:07:12,510 This 1076 01:07:12,510 --> 01:07:15,330 is full time. Yeah, that's one of the that's been one of the 1077 01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:18,990 coolest things about this whole project is everybody has mean 1078 01:07:18,990 --> 01:07:21,450 everybody has day jobs. And everybody's doing this thing on 1079 01:07:21,450 --> 01:07:25,200 the side, just out of the love of, of wanting to get it done. 1080 01:07:25,230 --> 01:07:28,200 You know, that that's been one of the most rewarding things 1081 01:07:28,200 --> 01:07:31,770 about this whole project so far, is seeing everybody just like 1082 01:07:31,980 --> 01:07:35,250 taking their side passion and applying it to this whole thing. 1083 01:07:35,340 --> 01:07:38,100 It's been it's been really cool. Yeah, I'd 1084 01:07:38,100 --> 01:07:41,340 love to be working on this for more hours in the day. 1085 01:07:42,900 --> 01:07:46,920 Unfortunately, you know, but, you know, having a day job also 1086 01:07:46,920 --> 01:07:49,620 takes some of the heat off needing to, like, urgently make 1087 01:07:49,620 --> 01:07:50,910 money. So 1088 01:07:53,880 --> 01:07:57,210 well, the idea here is we want to make a magic money machine 1089 01:07:57,210 --> 01:08:02,160 for everybody. You know, and, and my experience so far in what 1090 01:08:02,340 --> 01:08:08,160 we've had satoshis flowing for almost four months now. Is it is 1091 01:08:08,190 --> 01:08:11,790 I mean, and four months with a full month of like, wow, 60 1092 01:08:11,790 --> 01:08:18,720 bucks, but seeing that payment come in, just you know, three 1093 01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:23,820 satoshis, five, satoshis, 19, satoshis, 20, satoshis, it gives 1094 01:08:23,820 --> 01:08:28,920 me such a great feeling, because I know that someone is listening 1095 01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:34,200 to me at that very moment. Yeah, and in a value it 1096 01:08:34,830 --> 01:08:38,160 with it. And so, you know, like our, our goal is what if we 1097 01:08:38,160 --> 01:08:44,520 could, with the 1% on the index was funded, if we can just fund 1098 01:08:44,520 --> 01:08:47,070 it, if we can make it self sustaining, to where we don't 1099 01:08:47,070 --> 01:08:50,370 have to wear it covers the hosting costs and everything 1100 01:08:50,370 --> 01:08:56,730 every month. That means success on the broader scale to because 1101 01:08:56,730 --> 01:09:01,770 like, if if we're if our hosting fees are 350 to $400 a month, at 1102 01:09:01,770 --> 01:09:05,250 1%. That may mean think about how much money is flowing 1103 01:09:05,250 --> 01:09:08,310 through the entire system. If because that's that's the other 1104 01:09:08,310 --> 01:09:11,790 thing that people don't maybe not realize they get, it's a 1105 01:09:11,790 --> 01:09:13,770 little easy to get confused whether to get podcast or 1106 01:09:13,770 --> 01:09:15,630 wallet, and you get all this kind of stuff. And it looks like 1107 01:09:15,630 --> 01:09:19,080 everything's going through the index. But the value block is 1108 01:09:19,080 --> 01:09:22,530 not tied to the index, it's completely open source. So 1109 01:09:22,560 --> 01:09:26,490 anybody can create can essentially do the exact same 1110 01:09:26,490 --> 01:09:30,780 thing we're doing, nobody needs us in order to get paid. So if 1111 01:09:30,780 --> 01:09:34,260 you if you take whatever percentage of the total value 1112 01:09:34,260 --> 01:09:40,350 flow is, is us, and then take 1% of that. And if that is enough 1113 01:09:40,350 --> 01:09:44,700 to cover our bills, one of these days, think about how much money 1114 01:09:44,700 --> 01:09:48,420 that is actually flowing through the whole broader ecosystem. I 1115 01:09:48,420 --> 01:09:51,900 mean, it could be hundreds of 1000s of dollars, flow, you 1116 01:09:51,900 --> 01:09:54,690 know, flowing through the broader system at that point. So 1117 01:09:54,900 --> 01:09:58,920 if we ever actually get to the point where where our 1% is care 1118 01:09:58,950 --> 01:10:02,790 is covering our costs Man that for the broader system as a 1119 01:10:02,790 --> 01:10:07,260 whole and broader goals, that is a total success. Well, that 1120 01:10:07,260 --> 01:10:09,810 mean, that means lots of money is flowing and lots of people 1121 01:10:09,810 --> 01:10:10,770 are quitting their day job, 1122 01:10:10,830 --> 01:10:19,740 it would be it would be probably only 5x what we're doing now. 1123 01:10:21,210 --> 01:10:24,600 That would be what our bills like. 380 I'm just trying to 1124 01:10:24,600 --> 01:10:31,500 remember that it's like 380 495. Yeah. Yeah, 1125 01:10:31,620 --> 01:10:35,520 I mean, right now, login. But I think I mean, I don't have 1126 01:10:35,520 --> 01:10:40,950 enough data. But I saw a $4 day for the index. 1127 01:10:42,060 --> 01:10:46,980 Yeah. So I told my wife, I was like, I was like, oh, Adam said, 1128 01:10:47,400 --> 01:10:51,360 we had $4. And the other day, she was like, Oh, 1129 01:10:51,570 --> 01:11:01,260 I know. Like, I got $17.85. She's like, Honey, I'm so happy 1130 01:11:01,260 --> 01:11:03,750 for you. What? What, 1131 01:11:03,780 --> 01:11:05,400 what is that all about? 1132 01:11:05,969 --> 01:11:08,909 I'm like, No, you gotta, you gotta see the big vision. It's, 1133 01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:13,830 I tried to save it. I was $4 that didn't exist before. 1134 01:11:14,130 --> 01:11:17,790 You say it's made out of thin air. I mean, I've actually, I've 1135 01:11:17,790 --> 01:11:21,180 actually got, I've now just resorted to tracking satoshis 1136 01:11:21,180 --> 01:11:24,090 it's ridiculous to do it based on the conversion with the 1137 01:11:24,090 --> 01:11:29,880 volatility of the price. So I just do it on satoshis. But so 1138 01:11:29,910 --> 01:11:34,050 if you do that time, send us 1200 bucks a month. So we just 1139 01:11:34,050 --> 01:11:39,510 funded the operation. If you if you do it by, you know, by 5x. I 1140 01:11:39,510 --> 01:11:45,540 mean, this is gonna go very fast. I am, I am in fact, almost 1141 01:11:45,540 --> 01:11:46,410 speechless. 1142 01:11:47,640 --> 01:11:48,840 speechless yourself. 1143 01:11:48,870 --> 01:11:55,230 Yeah. I mean, that's serious money. Any, any, any app 1144 01:11:55,230 --> 01:11:58,290 participating in this can get up to those numbers, I think pretty 1145 01:11:58,290 --> 01:11:58,890 quickly. 1146 01:12:01,020 --> 01:12:05,670 That's what I'm saying. Like, if you have, you know, like, like, 1147 01:12:05,730 --> 01:12:07,980 you know, met, you're talking about, you know, well, you know, 1148 01:12:07,980 --> 01:12:11,760 we we just want the biggest sounds like my house is about to 1149 01:12:11,760 --> 01:12:12,720 fall down. Yeah. 1150 01:12:12,720 --> 01:12:13,140 Does. 1151 01:12:15,210 --> 01:12:18,900 Somebody read about me, they, you know, you say you will, you 1152 01:12:18,900 --> 01:12:22,410 know, we're, we're focused on, you know, growing user base, and 1153 01:12:22,410 --> 01:12:24,420 that and that kind of thing and making them more valuable 1154 01:12:24,420 --> 01:12:31,440 product. And that's, you know, this, the beauty of a thing like 1155 01:12:31,440 --> 01:12:35,250 this is that it can happen, or it happens organically. 1156 01:12:35,460 --> 01:12:39,330 Thank you. This is and this is what people are missing. And 1157 01:12:39,360 --> 01:12:45,510 developers miss it all the time. The whole advertising world 1158 01:12:45,510 --> 01:12:50,190 wants to get their messages into podcasting. Why is that? Because 1159 01:12:50,220 --> 01:12:54,060 the communication between the audience and the podcaster is 1160 01:12:54,060 --> 01:12:59,100 very tight and very loyal. When you and this is my experience 1161 01:12:59,100 --> 01:13:04,800 for seven to almost 20 years. When you have an audience that 1162 01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:09,060 you can that you communicate with. What happens is, and this 1163 01:13:09,060 --> 01:13:11,940 just happened the other day, someone hears Oh, lightning, 1164 01:13:11,940 --> 01:13:16,860 Bitcoin, podcasting. 2.0 my god, I'm using it. Hey, favorite 1165 01:13:16,860 --> 01:13:21,060 podcast are 1234 and five are tweeting you on Twitter send you 1166 01:13:21,060 --> 01:13:23,250 emails, you should get on board with this go look at my 1167 01:13:23,250 --> 01:13:25,650 timeline, it's filled with people telling their favorite 1168 01:13:25,650 --> 01:13:30,480 podcasters that they should jump on this bandwagon right away. It 1169 01:13:30,480 --> 01:13:35,220 is the best marketing tool known to man right now, as far as I'm 1170 01:13:35,220 --> 01:13:40,050 concerned, as long as it really is in the interest of those 1171 01:13:40,050 --> 01:13:45,600 podcasters. And listeners, they do it. And that's going to work 1172 01:13:45,630 --> 01:13:46,620 very well. 1173 01:13:47,280 --> 01:13:51,150 I agree that the fact that it's the value tag is taking off so 1174 01:13:51,150 --> 01:13:54,840 quickly. And we're seeing so many articles and people talking 1175 01:13:54,840 --> 01:13:58,590 about it. I mean, it like you said to do it organically, like 1176 01:13:58,680 --> 01:14:01,230 it's just next up in our queue, because the demand is there 1177 01:14:01,230 --> 01:14:04,260 right now. So that's what we're gonna focus. Yes, 1178 01:14:04,290 --> 01:14:07,530 you know, that I was thinking about it, because what made me 1179 01:14:07,530 --> 01:14:09,570 kind of go down that road, Mitch, was that you were talking 1180 01:14:09,570 --> 01:14:12,750 to, you mentioned a few times about open source software and 1181 01:14:12,750 --> 01:14:15,510 how you just that seems to be really near and dear to your 1182 01:14:15,510 --> 01:14:18,360 heart. And the problem with open source, you know, the there has 1183 01:14:18,360 --> 01:14:22,650 always been there. Is that, that age old issue of you know, was 1184 01:14:22,650 --> 01:14:26,610 it the XKCD comic where you got the whole internet is like 1185 01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:29,820 visualized, as you know, as this huge stack of you know, 1186 01:14:29,820 --> 01:14:32,790 furniture on top of this one little, some little dudes 1187 01:14:32,790 --> 01:14:37,770 project in rural Indiana somewhere, you know, it's like 1188 01:14:37,770 --> 01:14:41,490 the NTP guy, you know, then then the Network Time Protocol guy 1189 01:14:41,490 --> 01:14:45,120 that nobody knew that he existed, right and this guy's 1190 01:14:45,120 --> 01:14:47,970 been keeping the whole internet running for you know, 25 years. 1191 01:14:49,350 --> 01:14:53,220 That's that's the that's been the age old problem with with 1192 01:14:53,340 --> 01:14:57,060 such valuable open source projects is that they never 1193 01:14:57,060 --> 01:15:02,970 produce the they never produce A equivalent value for the people 1194 01:15:02,970 --> 01:15:07,170 involved in. And it's not just financial, you know, we do open 1195 01:15:07,170 --> 01:15:10,860 source stuff. And that's why, you know, we put all of our open 1196 01:15:10,860 --> 01:15:16,590 source stuff on the index. We do it for the love of the code and 1197 01:15:16,590 --> 01:15:20,010 the product. But then you also there comes this point where 1198 01:15:20,010 --> 01:15:24,390 you, where you, inevitably you're gonna have burnout. And 1199 01:15:24,420 --> 01:15:28,800 if there's not something there to just keep the bills paid for 1200 01:15:28,800 --> 01:15:33,030 your project. It really it just becomes onerous. And the risk is 1201 01:15:33,060 --> 01:15:36,570 always that that thing is going to fail. Because you just can't, 1202 01:15:36,990 --> 01:15:39,450 eventually somebody is always going to have a health emergency 1203 01:15:39,450 --> 01:15:42,240 or somebody is always going to have a, you know, have to go get 1204 01:15:42,240 --> 01:15:45,270 a day job. And there's all these things that can just really come 1205 01:15:45,270 --> 01:15:47,730 in and throw a wrecking ball and an open source projects 1206 01:15:47,730 --> 01:15:51,900 like having a rock and roll band. really are. 1207 01:15:52,649 --> 01:15:56,609 What is that the avoca? Have a guy? Yeah. What's his name? 1208 01:15:56,969 --> 01:16:02,189 Bjorn, Bjorn. Yeah, yeah, he's Oh, by the way, he I looked up 1209 01:16:02,189 --> 01:16:05,369 his Wikipedia, always billionaire. Did you know, we'll 1210 01:16:05,369 --> 01:16:09,629 get a load of this? This is the Guardian called him Sweden's 1211 01:16:09,719 --> 01:16:14,759 highest profile cash free campaigner? Yes. explaining that 1212 01:16:14,969 --> 01:16:19,049 after his son was robbed several years ago, ovis became an 1213 01:16:19,079 --> 01:16:22,199 evangelist for the electronic payment movement, claiming that 1214 01:16:22,199 --> 01:16:24,149 cash was the primary cause of crime. 1215 01:16:24,600 --> 01:16:31,620 Yeah, he's no friend of mine. Something I wanted to bring up 1216 01:16:31,620 --> 01:16:34,530 because I didn't quite finish the issue with the podcast 1217 01:16:34,530 --> 01:16:39,870 experience. But I'm interested to hear your take, Mitch. So one 1218 01:16:39,870 --> 01:16:45,060 of the issues that came up, as I explained was people not getting 1219 01:16:45,060 --> 01:16:48,330 triggered by certain types of content, as you know, the index 1220 01:16:48,330 --> 01:16:53,490 is there to provide for all. I actually had a quick back and 1221 01:16:53,490 --> 01:16:58,410 forth tweet with Marco from overcast this morning. As 1222 01:16:58,410 --> 01:17:01,440 someone said to him, Hey, Marco, do you want to get Are you going 1223 01:17:01,440 --> 01:17:06,030 to get it? Are you going to do the podcasting 2.0 payments, 1224 01:17:06,030 --> 01:17:08,940 quite frankly, I'd love that if he did anything podcasting 2.0. 1225 01:17:10,800 --> 01:17:17,280 And we know that he is very cautious about user feedback, 1226 01:17:17,280 --> 01:17:23,400 what they do and do not want to see in his app. And Dave, Eric, 1227 01:17:23,400 --> 01:17:26,100 and I were talking this morning about, you know, we'll we're not 1228 01:17:26,100 --> 01:17:30,510 going to censor anything. However, we do understand that 1229 01:17:31,920 --> 01:17:37,110 certain, first of all, if you make an app, and it's up to you 1230 01:17:37,110 --> 01:17:39,930 as to what you're going to show or not, we were thinking it 1231 01:17:39,930 --> 01:17:46,440 might be useful to provide a toggle switch, if you only 1232 01:17:46,440 --> 01:17:53,220 wanted results, or trending, etc. Where they also exist in 1233 01:17:53,220 --> 01:17:57,990 the extremely vetted and safe Apple index. Although they would 1234 01:17:57,990 --> 01:18:01,440 still be coming from the podcast index, it would be that subset, 1235 01:18:01,590 --> 01:18:04,080 if you only wanted that where you could give your users a 1236 01:18:04,080 --> 01:18:07,050 choice. I'm curious about your thoughts, Mitch. 1237 01:18:07,980 --> 01:18:11,040 Yeah, that makes perfect sense to me. And we've thought about 1238 01:18:11,190 --> 01:18:14,160 similar things like a third party service, basically, that 1239 01:18:14,160 --> 01:18:18,060 can be a filtering layer, to control the content that people 1240 01:18:18,060 --> 01:18:21,240 want to see. So if something offends you, you can, you don't 1241 01:18:21,240 --> 01:18:24,990 have to see it. But at the same time, our freedom of speech 1242 01:18:24,990 --> 01:18:29,040 policy, it would be very similar to your own to where we're not 1243 01:18:29,040 --> 01:18:32,010 going to censor anything by default, unless there's legal 1244 01:18:32,010 --> 01:18:34,920 reasons, basically, or if there's like an imminent threat 1245 01:18:35,010 --> 01:18:40,860 related to it. It's just not feasible for us as a small team 1246 01:18:40,860 --> 01:18:42,870 on, you know, part time and you can't, 1247 01:18:43,530 --> 01:18:44,640 you can't deal with that, 1248 01:18:44,850 --> 01:18:47,550 over a million podcasts. There's just there's just no way to do 1249 01:18:47,550 --> 01:18:51,960 it. And I'm not sure it's the right thing to do anyway. But so 1250 01:18:51,990 --> 01:18:55,290 beyond that, if if people were to take issue with our freedom 1251 01:18:55,290 --> 01:18:59,190 of speech policy, I'd say that we have the product is open 1252 01:18:59,190 --> 01:19:02,070 source, and you can start your own version of the site and 1253 01:19:02,070 --> 01:19:05,220 control the content to your liking. If Yeah, no, that isn't 1254 01:19:05,220 --> 01:19:05,670 working for you. 1255 01:19:05,730 --> 01:19:09,270 I that's always a good answer. I know. I love that. It would, 1256 01:19:09,300 --> 01:19:16,410 would it be helpful for us to provide other filtering tools? 1257 01:19:16,860 --> 01:19:21,090 In an AMP? It could be by size by image? It could be anything? 1258 01:19:21,090 --> 01:19:23,490 Would it be helpful to have filtering tools built into the 1259 01:19:23,490 --> 01:19:27,120 API? I'm speaking on my partner days behalf because he'll build 1260 01:19:27,120 --> 01:19:30,120 it? I'm just Yeah, 1261 01:19:30,420 --> 01:19:33,990 yeah, I think it would if we could add like a parameter that 1262 01:19:33,990 --> 01:19:37,500 would only return let's say what is in the Apple store? Or how 1263 01:19:37,500 --> 01:19:37,650 about 1264 01:19:37,650 --> 01:19:40,260 a catalog category is also maybe interest, you could actually 1265 01:19:40,260 --> 01:19:44,010 literally call Apple Apple a category and you could filter by 1266 01:19:44,010 --> 01:19:47,310 that or filter, only if it included that category. And 1267 01:19:47,310 --> 01:19:49,200 there's anything you can do we just want to make it easy for 1268 01:19:49,200 --> 01:19:53,370 everybody else, so that people can make their own decisions. 1269 01:19:53,520 --> 01:19:56,430 And we help them you know, we want we want to provide tools. 1270 01:19:58,140 --> 01:20:00,390 Yeah, I think that that will work perfectly. That sounds 1271 01:20:00,390 --> 01:20:00,630 good. 1272 01:20:01,170 --> 01:20:03,600 Yeah, cuz I'm because you know, the issue was something like 1273 01:20:03,600 --> 01:20:06,330 this. And this is what happened with the you know, with breeze. 1274 01:20:06,660 --> 01:20:10,530 Whenever you create a new monetization layer level, you 1275 01:20:10,530 --> 01:20:15,570 know monetization protocol, the people who have gotten deep 1276 01:20:15,570 --> 01:20:18,960 platformed off of other platforms are always going to be 1277 01:20:18,960 --> 01:20:22,050 the first ones to jump on board because they they want, they 1278 01:20:22,050 --> 01:20:25,680 want another Lifeline into some sort of monetization. And 1279 01:20:25,890 --> 01:20:28,200 oftentimes, those are going to be the people who are the most 1280 01:20:28,200 --> 01:20:28,980 controversial. 1281 01:20:29,040 --> 01:20:33,210 And I guarantee you, maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, maybe 1282 01:20:33,210 --> 01:20:36,210 next week or next month, Alex Jones is going to pop up my 1283 01:20:36,210 --> 01:20:37,650 guarantee, I can guarantee you. 1284 01:20:38,310 --> 01:20:41,310 Yeah, and so you've got to be prepared and say, Well, okay, 1285 01:20:41,700 --> 01:20:46,710 we're not going to take those people off. But each individual 1286 01:20:46,710 --> 01:20:50,610 app can make that choice on their own. Because they know 1287 01:20:50,610 --> 01:20:53,910 their customers and their customers may or may not want 1288 01:20:53,910 --> 01:20:57,750 that stuff. Yeah, you know, that's the I was actually 1289 01:20:57,750 --> 01:21:02,040 listening to a new platform guy the other day. And I never 1290 01:21:02,040 --> 01:21:04,320 listened to his stuff before. But I listened to it for the 1291 01:21:04,320 --> 01:21:08,280 first time. And just to see what all the hubbub was about, he was 1292 01:21:08,280 --> 01:21:11,280 talking about how he got d platformed. Off YouTube. And 1293 01:21:11,280 --> 01:21:14,220 then he switched over two, gosh, it was like bitch shoot or 1294 01:21:14,220 --> 01:21:18,870 something. And he was like, only 3% of my subscribers followed me 1295 01:21:18,870 --> 01:21:22,680 to bitch shoot. And I started thinking, you know, I 1296 01:21:23,610 --> 01:21:25,890 wonder if we had that many to start with? Yes, 1297 01:21:25,950 --> 01:21:30,600 yes. Yes, exactly. Because the thinking is, if I had a million 1298 01:21:30,600 --> 01:21:35,220 subscribers on YouTube, I won't leave, then then and only 3000 1299 01:21:35,220 --> 01:21:41,700 of them on bit shoot, then only 3000 of my subscribers left 1300 01:21:41,700 --> 01:21:45,390 YouTube and went to bitch shoot. But I don't think that's ever I 1301 01:21:45,390 --> 01:21:47,610 don't think that was actually the case. I think that the 1302 01:21:47,610 --> 01:21:51,900 million on YouTube was a fake number to begin with. That that 1303 01:21:51,900 --> 01:21:54,540 was not a that could not have been a real stat. 1304 01:21:55,349 --> 01:21:58,109 Well, there's all the incentive for them to fake these numbers. 1305 01:21:58,289 --> 01:22:01,109 I mean, the incentive is there, it will help their their stock 1306 01:22:01,109 --> 01:22:04,439 price, the more users are on these platforms. So 1307 01:22:04,739 --> 01:22:07,289 yeah, and we know and we know that there's people that are 1308 01:22:07,319 --> 01:22:11,579 controversial, and don't get d platformed. And have large user 1309 01:22:11,579 --> 01:22:14,519 bases. And those probably are the ones where the numbers are 1310 01:22:14,519 --> 01:22:17,879 close to accurate. You know that the other the other people that 1311 01:22:17,879 --> 01:22:21,329 do get d platformed. Probably Google's on the backside of that 1312 01:22:21,329 --> 01:22:24,599 thing saying oh, okay, yeah, you show me and subscribers, but 1313 01:22:24,599 --> 01:22:29,009 we're only really seeing probably 1000 views a week. So 1314 01:22:29,009 --> 01:22:31,829 we're just gonna cut you loose. You know, and then and then it 1315 01:22:31,829 --> 01:22:35,039 looks like nobody left when there never really had that many 1316 01:22:35,039 --> 01:22:37,499 to begin with. The numbers are all phony. You know? 1317 01:22:38,099 --> 01:22:42,149 I totally think the numbers are phony and and I saw that the 1318 01:22:42,149 --> 01:22:45,749 first time I knew for sure was with the Kony 2012 video, you 1319 01:22:45,749 --> 01:22:49,949 should go look that up had like 300 million views in 24 hours 1320 01:22:49,949 --> 01:22:55,379 and it wasn't all that good. It was totally bogus. No, that was 1321 01:22:55,379 --> 01:22:59,189 the African like, yeah, Warlord guy. Yeah, with the with the 1322 01:22:59,189 --> 01:23:02,969 child fighters and the guy who ran that that whole campaign 1323 01:23:02,969 --> 01:23:06,239 went insane and wound up, you know, PCP out running around 1324 01:23:06,239 --> 01:23:12,359 naked jumping on cars on live TV remote. It was awesome. It was 1325 01:23:12,359 --> 01:23:15,899 so cool. But anyway, it's but it's the same thing that 1326 01:23:15,929 --> 01:23:20,759 Instagram, I know for a fact that if if you're you're you log 1327 01:23:20,759 --> 01:23:23,459 onto your timeline, you're scrolling through it. And then 1328 01:23:23,459 --> 01:23:26,309 if you're idle, then you're going to get four likes in a 1329 01:23:26,309 --> 01:23:32,849 row. They hold that back to you know, to use as bait to get you 1330 01:23:32,849 --> 01:23:34,439 back in it's really quite evil. 1331 01:23:35,340 --> 01:23:37,890 Well, that's less. Okay, let's go. That's something we'll do 1332 01:23:37,890 --> 01:23:40,590 them we'll put in those. We'll put in that ability to say, 1333 01:23:40,590 --> 01:23:44,190 okay, only show me stuff that's on other platforms. You know, 1334 01:23:44,340 --> 01:23:46,050 like, I want the safety switch. 1335 01:23:46,680 --> 01:23:49,530 I wouldn't even call it safety because that's a that's a 1336 01:23:49,530 --> 01:23:53,700 judgment. Okay. I would just say it's the it's the apple switch. 1337 01:23:54,030 --> 01:23:57,090 Yep. So you go, this is what Apple does. If if you're 1338 01:23:57,090 --> 01:23:58,950 uncomfortable with that. Yeah. What kind of you know, you 1339 01:23:58,950 --> 01:24:02,910 should talk to Apple? Yeah, there we are. We are using them 1340 01:24:02,910 --> 01:24:07,200 as our fact check of fact check network. Yeah, there was no 1341 01:24:07,200 --> 01:24:10,260 we're not using them. We can you can use them. And here's how 1342 01:24:10,320 --> 01:24:10,770 that's 1343 01:24:11,340 --> 01:24:12,480 a fact check equals true. 1344 01:24:15,540 --> 01:24:19,740 I think that sounds great. And there's definitely a need for 1345 01:24:19,740 --> 01:24:23,940 it. We have heard from some people. Like, if there's just 1346 01:24:23,970 --> 01:24:27,030 alex jones on your platform, doesn't matter what else your 1347 01:24:27,030 --> 01:24:31,020 platform is doing or what values you represent. It's enough for 1348 01:24:31,020 --> 01:24:32,610 people to just run away. That's 1349 01:24:32,610 --> 01:24:35,940 Yeah. That's so amazing. So 1350 01:24:36,810 --> 01:24:40,980 there's certain deal breakers so and you know, that's not our 1351 01:24:40,980 --> 01:24:44,190 intent. Like we want to give people the freedom to decide for 1352 01:24:44,190 --> 01:24:46,770 themselves. We also don't want to put things in front of people 1353 01:24:46,770 --> 01:24:47,700 they don't want to hear or 1354 01:24:49,170 --> 01:24:51,900 you should give him a trigger mode. You know, it's fine. You 1355 01:24:51,900 --> 01:24:53,880 use this. Yeah, like 1356 01:24:53,910 --> 01:24:56,130 the guy was talking to a gal was listening to I don't even want 1357 01:24:56,130 --> 01:24:58,530 to talk about who was the guy I was listening to the other day. 1358 01:24:58,530 --> 01:25:02,040 I mean, like, seriously, like 15 minutes into it. I'm like, this 1359 01:25:02,040 --> 01:25:04,530 is not for me. I'm out. No, 1360 01:25:04,650 --> 01:25:07,080 I'm not gonna go. I think that guy who got the platform because 1361 01:25:07,080 --> 01:25:09,090 it was boring. I don't think it was because of anything 1362 01:25:09,090 --> 01:25:09,900 controversial. 1363 01:25:10,380 --> 01:25:13,350 I think so too. Yeah, 1364 01:25:13,680 --> 01:25:15,150 we need to thank some people. 1365 01:25:15,210 --> 01:25:21,390 Yes, yes. Now, anybody now who's listening to this show can 1366 01:25:21,390 --> 01:25:25,710 participate by helping us. So crank up those SATs per minute, 1367 01:25:25,980 --> 01:25:30,660 hit us with a boost. That is a great way to support podcast 1368 01:25:31,170 --> 01:25:34,740 index and all the work that we're doing. You know, the 1369 01:25:34,740 --> 01:25:38,520 numbers were transparent is it's right up there up front. We love 1370 01:25:38,520 --> 01:25:41,340 that everyone has been supporting us so well, 1371 01:25:41,340 --> 01:25:44,820 throughout this project six months running. We have not had 1372 01:25:44,820 --> 01:25:48,930 the dip in our own pockets. Once that I'm aware of although I'm a 1373 01:25:48,930 --> 01:25:53,910 little confused. I think I've sent millions of satoshis I lost 1374 01:25:53,910 --> 01:25:55,800 track up the I don't know you don't don't 1375 01:25:55,800 --> 01:25:56,700 even add it up, man. 1376 01:25:59,460 --> 01:26:02,010 You're like, Yeah, no, I'm opening channels from the my own 1377 01:26:02,010 --> 01:26:05,100 nodes everywhere. I have no idea. I'm like, fuck it. This is 1378 01:26:05,100 --> 01:26:10,140 just let's just go make it work. Yeah. So yeah, it's value for 1379 01:26:10,140 --> 01:26:13,080 value, any type of any type of value get out of the project 1380 01:26:13,080 --> 01:26:15,210 we're doing here. We'd love for you to send it back to his time, 1381 01:26:15,210 --> 01:26:21,420 talent, or treasure. And, Mitch, of course, is is is putting in a 1382 01:26:21,420 --> 01:26:26,670 lot of the two T's. Then we like thanking everybody who supported 1383 01:26:26,670 --> 01:26:30,240 us by going to podcast index.org down at the bottom. We got a big 1384 01:26:30,240 --> 01:26:33,960 red Donate button. You can hit us there with with some 1385 01:26:33,990 --> 01:26:38,340 cookbooks through PayPal. Or you can also use the lightning 1386 01:26:38,340 --> 01:26:41,850 invoice that now I'm channeling my best Marty bent. You can use 1387 01:26:41,850 --> 01:26:46,230 the lightning the lightning invoice there. You can send a 1388 01:26:46,230 --> 01:26:50,580 bulk amount or a subscription even. Let's thank some of the 1389 01:26:50,580 --> 01:26:54,030 people who sent us some treasure for this for this week. 1390 01:26:55,110 --> 01:26:59,310 Yeah, Brian Perla sent us $133. 1391 01:26:59,339 --> 01:27:02,369 Wow. Yes. Nice magic numbers. 1392 01:27:02,880 --> 01:27:08,190 sent over a good note to see. He says hey, gentlemen, hope your 1393 01:27:08,190 --> 01:27:12,870 day is filled with nothing but red hot namespace talk. And the 1394 01:27:12,870 --> 01:27:15,180 producer of the podcast fiddly. dicking. 1395 01:27:15,660 --> 01:27:16,680 fiddly. dicking 1396 01:27:17,040 --> 01:27:21,750 Yes. Nice. comedies. Yes. All that one embrace a comedy show 1397 01:27:21,750 --> 01:27:25,170 hosted by fathers of children. I'm not sure I guess that's the 1398 01:27:25,170 --> 01:27:29,340 company. I'm not sure. We put out a short 10 minute ish 1399 01:27:29,490 --> 01:27:33,540 episode of every of every day, every day during the workweek. 1400 01:27:33,690 --> 01:27:37,260 And then we can remix of all the weekday shorts mashed together. 1401 01:27:37,530 --> 01:27:40,830 For the fans that prefer a long form. Listen, I'll have to have 1402 01:27:40,830 --> 01:27:41,940 to listen to them. They have a 1403 01:27:41,969 --> 01:27:44,249 they have a value. They have a node they have everything 1404 01:27:44,249 --> 01:27:45,329 running. Cool. Yeah, 1405 01:27:45,330 --> 01:27:47,370 so I'm on break. I haven't seen them on spring. So I don't think 1406 01:27:47,370 --> 01:27:50,700 they have a tribe yet, but I have seen him on breeze says 1407 01:27:50,700 --> 01:27:53,490 we've been kicking around different ideas on how to make a 1408 01:27:53,490 --> 01:27:56,850 little scratch for our efforts. One thing we all consistently 1409 01:27:56,850 --> 01:28:00,750 agree on is refusing, refusing to throw in ADS. Our episodes 1410 01:28:00,750 --> 01:28:03,990 are too short and no doubt would kill the comedy mood. Yeah, 1411 01:28:03,990 --> 01:28:07,860 that's true. I agree. Yeah, we could not be more excited about 1412 01:28:07,860 --> 01:28:11,250 the movement that that you and all the dude named these named 1413 01:28:11,250 --> 01:28:14,400 Ben have been putting in the hard work into. And while we 1414 01:28:14,400 --> 01:28:17,100 have no business programming any lines of code, we still want to 1415 01:28:17,100 --> 01:28:20,820 contribute to the cause. Beyond just treasure, we have other 1416 01:28:20,820 --> 01:28:24,090 podcasters promoting their shows by calling into our show, and 1417 01:28:24,090 --> 01:28:27,810 goof around with us. We hope to become Satoshi Satoshi streaming 1418 01:28:27,840 --> 01:28:31,020 experts and help those podcasters realize the value for 1419 01:28:31,020 --> 01:28:35,100 value for value. That's right. I successfully used the word value 1420 01:28:35,100 --> 01:28:38,130 three times in a sentence. Suck at ninth grade English teacher, 1421 01:28:38,130 --> 01:28:46,020 Miss Haynes. Okay. So while you may consider this as a donation, 1422 01:28:46,020 --> 01:28:49,170 we see it as an investment for our long term success to be the 1423 01:28:49,170 --> 01:28:52,530 fourth best podcast in the universe. And one final bit of 1424 01:28:52,530 --> 01:28:55,410 good news. Both of you are now considered on array honorary 1425 01:28:55,410 --> 01:28:58,590 fiddly diggers can Nice. Yeah, because yours Brown. 1426 01:29:00,270 --> 01:29:04,050 Italy dicker. I got to look that one up. And I don't 1427 01:29:04,050 --> 01:29:05,790 know where he's from. That sounds like a British thing. 1428 01:29:06,120 --> 01:29:09,630 Is that a British thing? It should be. Yeah, it sounds like 1429 01:29:10,470 --> 01:29:12,120 dicker. Hey, I'll wear it. 1430 01:29:12,149 --> 01:29:13,079 I'll wear that badge. I'm 1431 01:29:13,080 --> 01:29:15,120 a fifth leader. Hey, yeah, their t shirt. 1432 01:29:16,050 --> 01:29:16,710 You shouldn't be. 1433 01:29:18,149 --> 01:29:24,659 Let's see. Oh, Benjamin Bellamy. $45.70. See what management 1434 01:29:24,659 --> 01:29:28,049 says. He says, huge. Thank you from Casta pod go recommended 1435 01:29:28,049 --> 01:29:29,819 podcasts. Benjamin Bellamy 1436 01:29:32,880 --> 01:29:36,030 got a lot of good feedback. I got a lot of good feedback from 1437 01:29:36,030 --> 01:29:39,810 people on on the show we and the episode we did with with 1438 01:29:39,810 --> 01:29:40,350 Benjamin. 1439 01:29:40,979 --> 01:29:41,789 Yeah, like 1440 01:29:42,540 --> 01:29:44,670 that guy's smart for a French guy. 1441 01:29:48,090 --> 01:29:49,440 The backhanded compliment, 1442 01:29:49,620 --> 01:29:52,530 nod. That was one that was one of my favorite favorite guests. 1443 01:29:52,530 --> 01:29:55,440 Actually, he's very surprising very surprising guy. 1444 01:29:55,920 --> 01:30:03,450 And me too. Okay, we get let's see Maui. Good gave us $5 Yeah, 1445 01:30:03,450 --> 01:30:07,590 it says in a donation. Adam, thanks for this man, my tech 1446 01:30:07,590 --> 01:30:11,340 skills suck. So this is the best way I can help the house to 15 1447 01:30:11,340 --> 01:30:12,450 best alfonzo 1448 01:30:12,479 --> 01:30:15,269 Thank you Alphonse. So this is what I love so much about value 1449 01:30:15,269 --> 01:30:19,049 for value. And it's max Kaiser said, you know, we, we allow a 1450 01:30:19,049 --> 01:30:25,409 market to be creative. And that market is driven purely by price 1451 01:30:25,409 --> 01:30:29,909 discovery. And so whatever you send us make it meaningful to 1452 01:30:29,909 --> 01:30:34,679 you. That's the whole point. You need to feel good about the Hey, 1453 01:30:34,679 --> 01:30:39,689 I, you know, I am not all day long now with with breeze, it's 1454 01:30:39,689 --> 01:30:45,119 nuts. I'm so conscious of the exchange. When I'm when I'm 1455 01:30:45,119 --> 01:30:48,659 listening to a podcast, like I'm listening to pod News. I'm so 1456 01:30:48,659 --> 01:30:52,559 conscious. I'm like, Oh, this is this is good. I got no short I 1457 01:30:52,559 --> 01:30:55,439 got to be at 500 SATs a minute on this thing. I got a boost in 1458 01:30:55,439 --> 01:30:57,869 500. Yeah. And it's it's 1459 01:31:00,630 --> 01:31:03,300 if you think about it makes you It makes it conscious. 1460 01:31:03,420 --> 01:31:04,410 Yes. What 1461 01:31:04,410 --> 01:31:05,400 you're doing? Yes, 1462 01:31:05,399 --> 01:31:06,479 yes. 1463 01:31:06,540 --> 01:31:09,510 You're no longer just a passive listener. I'm actually thinking, 1464 01:31:10,290 --> 01:31:12,000 oh my god, Dave, you're a poet. 1465 01:31:13,229 --> 01:31:14,519 philosopher philosophy. 1466 01:31:17,910 --> 01:31:18,420 Amongst 1467 01:31:18,450 --> 01:31:21,600 legends, here it is. Philosophers make the worst 1468 01:31:21,600 --> 01:31:23,970 poets. Probably 1469 01:31:24,000 --> 01:31:26,640 I make a mean falafel. But that's about as far as I can 1470 01:31:26,640 --> 01:31:26,910 get. 1471 01:31:29,310 --> 01:31:31,080 That's it. That's our group. Oh, well, thank 1472 01:31:31,080 --> 01:31:34,740 you very much. We appreciate that support. And again, anybody 1473 01:31:34,740 --> 01:31:38,760 can go ahead and grab the Sphinx app, you can get the pod station 1474 01:31:38,790 --> 01:31:44,130 extension. Or you can use the breeze app, crank those value 1475 01:31:44,130 --> 01:31:48,870 sliders, let us know you love us and and send some value back 1476 01:31:48,870 --> 01:31:51,390 while you're enjoying the value we stream right into your 1477 01:31:51,390 --> 01:31:52,530 cerebral cortex. 1478 01:31:53,550 --> 01:31:58,200 I got a couple of things. Again, I got two things once one is for 1479 01:31:58,200 --> 01:32:02,730 Mitch and one's for James Cridland James Cridland put pod 1480 01:32:02,730 --> 01:32:07,320 land. Yes. All on a value block so that I can pay you for that. 1481 01:32:07,320 --> 01:32:07,830 Yeah, me 1482 01:32:07,830 --> 01:32:11,790 too. I mean, what? Yeah, perfect. I think he believes he 1483 01:32:11,790 --> 01:32:16,440 is up on a value on the value block. Because I i pinged him on 1484 01:32:16,440 --> 01:32:19,380 the mastodon. I said, Do you ever check your, your your 1485 01:32:19,380 --> 01:32:23,520 wallet, you know? And he said, For pod land? Yeah, I do. 1486 01:32:23,520 --> 01:32:26,130 Everything's good. I'm like, No, no, that's something Portland's? 1487 01:32:26,130 --> 01:32:28,560 Not there. No, it's what I don't understand is. 1488 01:32:28,950 --> 01:32:33,360 Yeah, we got we got Sam Sethi on the show next week. Well, we'll 1489 01:32:33,360 --> 01:32:34,290 pound him about that. 1490 01:32:35,040 --> 01:32:37,380 Oh, wow. They'll be no pounding on my show. 1491 01:32:39,210 --> 01:32:43,080 That's for the safety switch. Turn that off. 1492 01:32:43,860 --> 01:32:46,530 Yeah, I would love that. Well, there's a number of shows I 1493 01:32:46,530 --> 01:32:49,890 would love to have value streaming. But now you now 1494 01:32:49,890 --> 01:32:53,370 there's a way to do it. If you just want to try it with the 1495 01:32:53,370 --> 01:32:58,260 training wheels go to ces toesies dot stream. And I just 1496 01:32:58,290 --> 01:33:02,070 saw that they now have auto withdrawal. So you have very low 1497 01:33:02,070 --> 01:33:06,300 risk of losing anything and what comes into your wallet. I guess 1498 01:33:06,360 --> 01:33:09,210 I have to look at it. But you can set it to just send it right 1499 01:33:09,210 --> 01:33:15,600 back to your mail to I guess you can just do an invoice it'll do 1500 01:33:15,600 --> 01:33:18,150 an invoice or something after maybe something that hits a 1501 01:33:18,150 --> 01:33:22,290 certain URL. Yeah. When you withdraw. Yeah, that's cool. 1502 01:33:22,320 --> 01:33:23,040 Smart. 1503 01:33:24,240 --> 01:33:27,360 The other thing is, I'm going to mention to tell you the same 1504 01:33:27,360 --> 01:33:33,300 thing I told David Norman, which is like, I need to be able to 1505 01:33:33,300 --> 01:33:37,500 give you more money. Yeah. Like the 10 bucks a year is not 1506 01:33:37,500 --> 01:33:38,100 enough. 1507 01:33:39,330 --> 01:33:41,040 Well, you're in luck, because 1508 01:33:41,309 --> 01:33:43,139 this morning for you. 1509 01:33:45,300 --> 01:33:48,570 I remember you saying that. And yeah, I created a Patreon page 1510 01:33:48,570 --> 01:33:52,290 this morning, if anybody wants to give beyond the $10 a year 1511 01:33:52,290 --> 01:33:56,250 payment right now. So it's okay, cool. patreon.com slash pod 1512 01:33:56,250 --> 01:33:59,550 verse. And that's hopefully just the first of many different 1513 01:34:00,420 --> 01:34:02,850 awkward, you know, ways that you'll be able to send money our 1514 01:34:02,850 --> 01:34:03,150 way. 1515 01:34:03,540 --> 01:34:07,260 Okay, good. Because that, you know, when the pod verse is 1516 01:34:07,320 --> 01:34:12,510 become quickly became my go to thing for making clips. And so, 1517 01:34:12,990 --> 01:34:17,820 because I can share them out so easily. And, like the first 1518 01:34:17,820 --> 01:34:21,390 thought is, I mean, it's, it's worth at least 100 bucks a year 1519 01:34:21,390 --> 01:34:25,080 to me. I mean, if not more, so. I was like, looking around. I'm 1520 01:34:25,080 --> 01:34:26,850 like, Oh my gosh, 10 bucks. That's 1521 01:34:26,850 --> 01:34:29,520 a crock pot. Well, thanks, Dave. 1522 01:34:29,910 --> 01:34:30,930 Yeah, yeah, 1523 01:34:31,050 --> 01:34:36,090 well, it's true. And there's an there's, I'll just reiterate 1524 01:34:36,090 --> 01:34:42,360 what I usually say. The VAT value has price discovery of 1525 01:34:42,360 --> 01:34:46,710 value has been destroyed by Silicon Valley. And as much as I 1526 01:34:46,710 --> 01:34:50,970 appreciate Steve Jobs for what he did for podcasting, I despise 1527 01:34:50,970 --> 01:34:57,780 his unbundling of the album. The ruination of album art and liner 1528 01:34:57,780 --> 01:35:03,570 notes and the art Officially low pricing according to a value 1529 01:35:03,570 --> 01:35:10,200 scale of creative work. It's it's beyond me how people have 1530 01:35:10,200 --> 01:35:13,740 put up with this for so long. But as Moe pointed out, it's 1531 01:35:13,740 --> 01:35:17,610 it's slavery people are enslaved to this system. The Spotify 1532 01:35:17,610 --> 01:35:22,770 record company music industry is one big slave pit. And the same 1533 01:35:22,800 --> 01:35:26,430 when the App Store came out, I'm like, holy crap. Look at all 1534 01:35:26,430 --> 01:35:31,080 this. I did an app. I did it by myself, called the big app show. 1535 01:35:31,080 --> 01:35:36,420 No, you didn't I sure did. I did it in Xcode and everything. And 1536 01:35:36,420 --> 01:35:41,850 it was an early days, it was 2008. I think that's called the 1537 01:35:41,850 --> 01:35:44,340 big app show, or I commissioned a piece of art for it. And I 1538 01:35:44,340 --> 01:35:47,220 did, there's my submission to the App Store. And I had an 1539 01:35:47,220 --> 01:35:53,400 android version. And it was way I was way out of my league. But 1540 01:35:53,400 --> 01:35:59,400 I understood how much work goes into this. And then to have it 1541 01:35:59,400 --> 01:36:03,270 priced at 99 cents, because that's what the market has been 1542 01:36:03,300 --> 01:36:09,870 turned into. It's disgusting. Disgusting. And when I hear any 1543 01:36:09,930 --> 01:36:14,460 with all, with all love to James Cridland, I keep hearing him 1544 01:36:14,460 --> 01:36:19,110 being very excited about the prospect that Apple may allow 1545 01:36:19,110 --> 01:36:24,420 for people to subscribe, and in a payment form to podcast. And 1546 01:36:24,420 --> 01:36:28,740 he literally said, I would love it, if you could get my whole 1547 01:36:28,740 --> 01:36:35,580 season. So let's say that's 10 episodes for $2.99. And I and I 1548 01:36:35,610 --> 01:36:40,740 and I hear that and I'm like, No, no, your whole season is 1549 01:36:40,740 --> 01:36:42,690 worth $200. 1550 01:36:43,439 --> 01:36:43,979 And people 1551 01:36:44,729 --> 01:36:49,949 do that for you. And people will gladly pay for an app experience 1552 01:36:50,039 --> 01:36:56,669 that they like more. That means I hope that we get a feature for 1553 01:36:56,699 --> 01:37:01,709 for, for users to you know, to up their amount for the for the 1554 01:37:01,709 --> 01:37:05,069 app they're using mean all of this is price discovery that 1555 01:37:05,159 --> 01:37:09,059 we're now going to learn to do together. But it turns out that 1556 01:37:09,059 --> 01:37:11,639 not everybody's the cheap asshole that they that they're 1557 01:37:11,639 --> 01:37:15,509 thought to be by Silicon Valley. Because that's what Silicon 1558 01:37:15,509 --> 01:37:19,319 Valley does. I think they consider their actual customers 1559 01:37:19,439 --> 01:37:22,019 as stealing and horrible people. 1560 01:37:25,080 --> 01:37:25,920 Yet, 1561 01:37:26,309 --> 01:37:26,849 whoa, 1562 01:37:28,439 --> 01:37:30,449 whoa, did you kick off your noise gate? 1563 01:37:31,350 --> 01:37:34,050 There's a vacuum going on above me nothing. My kids don't 1564 01:37:34,050 --> 01:37:35,160 understand I'm doing a podcast. 1565 01:37:36,210 --> 01:37:38,730 All right, remind them when it's time for allowance. 1566 01:37:41,850 --> 01:37:43,110 I will mute myself. 1567 01:37:44,160 --> 01:37:45,420 Well, what these 1568 01:37:45,420 --> 01:37:50,070 are? No, these are very exciting times. And hopefully, I mean, 1569 01:37:50,070 --> 01:37:53,070 between Bitcoin and lightning network and the value block and 1570 01:37:53,070 --> 01:37:57,270 podcasting 2.0 hopefully, we're at a turning point where open 1571 01:37:57,270 --> 01:38:00,780 source will actually be able to be monetized in a way that 1572 01:38:00,810 --> 01:38:03,210 actually makes sense for the value that it creates. 1573 01:38:03,899 --> 01:38:06,929 From from your lips to God's ears, man. Absolutely. And 1574 01:38:06,959 --> 01:38:10,949 something else I've noticed with with the, I guess the FOSS free 1575 01:38:10,949 --> 01:38:17,339 open source software is, you know, no one's afraid of someone 1576 01:38:17,339 --> 01:38:21,089 swooping in and copying it. It's it's somehow is this beautiful 1577 01:38:21,089 --> 01:38:27,179 poison pill. Where most like the index, anybody could come in, if 1578 01:38:27,179 --> 01:38:30,209 you had a little bit of money and a bit of time or resources 1579 01:38:30,389 --> 01:38:33,629 and grab all the code from the index, recreate the index and 1580 01:38:33,629 --> 01:38:37,109 build it probably better stronger elsewhere. But no one 1581 01:38:37,109 --> 01:38:40,889 does it. Because they know that the value is not just in the 1582 01:38:40,889 --> 01:38:44,369 code. It's all the stuff that the people who built the code 1583 01:38:44,369 --> 01:38:48,209 learned and how they and how they do stuff. So Sphinx is open 1584 01:38:48,209 --> 01:38:51,809 source breeze is open source, anybody can recreate In fact, 1585 01:38:51,839 --> 01:38:57,419 breeze use an open source player that already was podcasting. 2.0 1586 01:38:57,449 --> 01:38:58,739 aware and compatible. 1587 01:38:59,160 --> 01:39:01,260 Now Yeah, the any is at anytime, player 1588 01:39:01,290 --> 01:39:06,120 anytime player. Yeah. You know this. And I have no idea if 1589 01:39:06,150 --> 01:39:08,400 they're getting a piece of that or not. And I guess they don't 1590 01:39:08,400 --> 01:39:13,470 have to it's under MIT license. But it's so beautiful to see 1591 01:39:13,470 --> 01:39:16,890 that. That it's kind of this protection airy measure because 1592 01:39:16,890 --> 01:39:19,650 the smart people go like that's what they're doing. I'm happy I 1593 01:39:19,650 --> 01:39:22,470 can look into the code, should I need to change something or if 1594 01:39:22,470 --> 01:39:25,200 there's something I don't like or want differently or want to 1595 01:39:25,200 --> 01:39:29,070 suggest? simultaneously, Silicon Valley doesn't want to touch it 1596 01:39:29,070 --> 01:39:32,400 because they can't own it. They can't own it. They can lock 1597 01:39:32,400 --> 01:39:33,270 people in with it. 1598 01:39:33,570 --> 01:39:36,600 Yeah, that's the good. That's what Max said the Silicon Valley 1599 01:39:36,600 --> 01:39:39,090 model is you give us everything and we give you nothing. 1600 01:39:41,970 --> 01:39:46,500 exactly what it is. Mitch. Is there anything else we can do 1601 01:39:46,500 --> 01:39:48,810 for you? Do you have something on your wish list is there I 1602 01:39:48,810 --> 01:39:52,170 mean, it can be anything. We'd love to hear what we can improve 1603 01:39:52,170 --> 01:39:55,170 make better for you or go beg, steal or borrow. 1604 01:39:56,460 --> 01:40:00,000 Oh boy. Not at the top of mine. I mean, there's all kinds of 1605 01:40:00,000 --> 01:40:03,150 features, but I can save it for another day. For longer 1606 01:40:03,150 --> 01:40:03,840 discussion, don't 1607 01:40:03,840 --> 01:40:04,710 say, No. 1608 01:40:05,070 --> 01:40:06,840 You got features we want to hear features. 1609 01:40:07,979 --> 01:40:08,639 Um, 1610 01:40:10,559 --> 01:40:14,939 well, there was one topic that I thought was pretty cool. You 1611 01:40:14,939 --> 01:40:20,789 brought up a couple weeks ago about live chats. And yes, and I 1612 01:40:20,789 --> 01:40:24,479 guess thinking for this is kind of a big topic I can't really 1613 01:40:24,509 --> 01:40:29,789 cover but just to move more towards the ability to be like a 1614 01:40:29,789 --> 01:40:35,279 twitch alternative, where if there's a live stream feature, 1615 01:40:35,429 --> 01:40:39,449 that it could be accessible through an R SS feed, and also 1616 01:40:39,449 --> 01:40:46,289 have live chats that are decentralized. And also possibly 1617 01:40:47,099 --> 01:40:51,269 what I've been calling super chats on the blockchain. So 1618 01:40:51,659 --> 01:40:55,889 there's the these things that if you're not familiar on YouTube, 1619 01:40:55,919 --> 01:40:59,309 people can submit comments along with some money with the 1620 01:40:59,309 --> 01:41:03,239 comment. And then usually the live streamer will read whoever 1621 01:41:03,239 --> 01:41:06,239 like submitted the super chats that with the most money 1622 01:41:06,239 --> 01:41:08,759 attached to it. And you were talking couple of weeks ago 1623 01:41:08,759 --> 01:41:14,879 about doing that with crypto. And I can just see there being a 1624 01:41:14,879 --> 01:41:18,629 big market for that. And also, what's cool is, so you could 1625 01:41:18,629 --> 01:41:22,649 have the live stream that where you have the Live Super chats. 1626 01:41:22,829 --> 01:41:25,379 But then you can also have super chats that are applied to the 1627 01:41:25,379 --> 01:41:30,689 recorded file, where I'm not listening live, but I met, you 1628 01:41:30,689 --> 01:41:35,849 know, minute 33. And I decided I want to share a comment there 1629 01:41:35,849 --> 01:41:39,479 and I send a payment with it. And then that comment will be 1630 01:41:39,479 --> 01:41:43,529 available for every podcast app to render, they choose to do so. 1631 01:41:43,829 --> 01:41:47,789 And and yeah, and that could be like an ongoing way for 1632 01:41:47,819 --> 01:41:50,519 podcasters to monetize their old comment content. 1633 01:41:50,999 --> 01:41:58,019 I love this idea. It is Moe has been hammering this into my head 1634 01:41:58,019 --> 01:42:00,749 for a long he in fact, he alerted me about clubhouse A 1635 01:42:00,749 --> 01:42:05,279 long time ago. He said they're paying black creators, so people 1636 01:42:05,279 --> 01:42:07,739 are gonna move over there and something cool, but it'll 1637 01:42:07,739 --> 01:42:13,109 probably get ruined and he was Nostradamus. But he's a total 1638 01:42:13,109 --> 01:42:16,079 YouTuber. That's what he was doing before we met each other 1639 01:42:16,079 --> 01:42:19,709 and started doing a podcast. He understands YouTube inside it 1640 01:42:19,709 --> 01:42:23,249 out. And exactly what you said Mitch is like the live 1641 01:42:23,249 --> 01:42:26,939 streamers, they, if it's a Super Chat, that's the ones that they 1642 01:42:26,939 --> 01:42:31,289 respond to. That's the one that said that talking about. So I'm 1643 01:42:31,289 --> 01:42:35,519 very excited. From what I've seen the alternative enclosure, 1644 01:42:35,789 --> 01:42:39,419 it looks like there's work being done on making that a live 1645 01:42:39,419 --> 01:42:43,919 stream. So that the way I understand that is the RSS feed 1646 01:42:43,919 --> 01:42:47,789 is published. Within whatever time you get an alert, it's 1647 01:42:47,789 --> 01:42:50,579 updated. You click it you're you're now hitting the live 1648 01:42:50,579 --> 01:42:54,569 streams that have the enclosure. regard it be going yeah, 1649 01:42:54,570 --> 01:42:59,040 that's that's no, that's. Yeah, that's the current thinking. And 1650 01:42:59,040 --> 01:43:03,060 so there's so that is, I don't think we can do that into the 1651 01:43:03,060 --> 01:43:07,020 next phase. But like I'm thinking, you know, it may be a 1652 01:43:07,020 --> 01:43:10,440 phase or two down the road, because it's so complicated to 1653 01:43:10,440 --> 01:43:14,070 get that right. If you don't get it right, it can be a disaster. 1654 01:43:14,070 --> 01:43:14,490 Yeah. 1655 01:43:14,969 --> 01:43:19,259 So simultaneously, and I'll tell you now that Brees is 1656 01:43:19,259 --> 01:43:23,459 considering building exactly what you said, they're building 1657 01:43:23,459 --> 01:43:28,679 the distributed chat. And they've looked at the Sphinx 1658 01:43:28,679 --> 01:43:32,459 relay, the way they do tribes, they find that it's that's not 1659 01:43:32,459 --> 01:43:36,089 the approach that they that they would take. And I'm not saying 1660 01:43:36,089 --> 01:43:38,819 they're doing it, but I'm certainly pressuring for someone 1661 01:43:38,819 --> 01:43:43,319 to do something. But the idea would be very simple, you know, 1662 01:43:43,319 --> 01:43:47,939 one Satoshi per message, but you can. So the the Satoshi becomes 1663 01:43:47,939 --> 01:43:52,679 the carrier, and the message is in the payload. And that because 1664 01:43:52,679 --> 01:43:56,309 it's blockchain, it can be synced against timecode. And you 1665 01:43:56,309 --> 01:43:59,009 can do exactly what you said you can have a live chat, but then 1666 01:43:59,009 --> 01:44:02,369 the recorded version could have those comments. And your 1667 01:44:02,369 --> 01:44:06,209 comments added to it in the timeline is it plays back it 1668 01:44:06,209 --> 01:44:10,319 were a ways off from that, but I think that will happen. 1669 01:44:12,149 --> 01:44:16,289 Awesome. I, I would like people to be able to think beyond 1670 01:44:16,289 --> 01:44:20,459 podcasting as just these audio, you know, basically radio shows 1671 01:44:20,459 --> 01:44:24,449 in your pocket and realize that any form of media is pretty much 1672 01:44:24,449 --> 01:44:26,219 possible through this format. 1673 01:44:26,310 --> 01:44:31,470 Oh, and the only problem Mitch, the only reason why video is not 1674 01:44:31,470 --> 01:44:35,220 prevalent in podcasting is because of the cost. YouTube 1675 01:44:35,220 --> 01:44:39,330 solve the storage and bandwidth issue by running definite 1676 01:44:39,330 --> 01:44:42,540 deficit finance, they're losing money on that. Yeah, they're 1677 01:44:42,540 --> 01:44:45,660 losing tons of money on that, probably even with the 1678 01:44:45,660 --> 01:44:49,770 advertising for most of the for most of his existence. So, you 1679 01:44:49,770 --> 01:44:54,990 know, you log into a blueberry and you get, you know, 250 gigs, 1680 01:44:56,310 --> 01:45:01,170 megabytes, or whatever it is, you know, but it cost more. And, 1681 01:45:01,200 --> 01:45:06,960 you know, if you send a, you know, no agenda is like 130 1682 01:45:06,990 --> 01:45:11,400 megabyte file at 96k, you want to do video, you know, quadruple 1683 01:45:11,400 --> 01:45:15,000 that. And it's a problem for everybody. So that's the only 1684 01:45:15,030 --> 01:45:18,150 most of the players I think handle it. Does 1685 01:45:18,449 --> 01:45:19,829 this podcast handle video? 1686 01:45:20,580 --> 01:45:24,270 No, we don't have video currently. Nobody has requested 1687 01:45:24,270 --> 01:45:28,830 yet. We could. It's it's totally feasible for us to do. We just 1688 01:45:28,830 --> 01:45:31,620 haven't. Yes. It's just not the culture yet. I 1689 01:45:31,620 --> 01:45:36,630 mean, we were the way I would look at it. And I know one 1690 01:45:36,630 --> 01:45:41,250 professional YouTube streamer, my friend Mo, and he would say, 1691 01:45:42,720 --> 01:45:45,270 was it the open broadcast? OBS? 1692 01:45:46,620 --> 01:45:49,560 No. Yeah. In that platform? No, no, it 1693 01:45:49,559 --> 01:45:54,359 is a software software. He's open Broadcast System. Yeah. And 1694 01:45:54,359 --> 01:45:56,459 I'll confirm with him, but I think that's what most 1695 01:45:56,459 --> 01:46:02,699 everybody's using for streaming. So you know, whatever, whatever 1696 01:46:02,699 --> 01:46:06,599 comes out of there. And since it's open source, that could be 1697 01:46:06,599 --> 01:46:10,469 possibly a plug in module or something that does a web sub 1698 01:46:10,469 --> 01:46:14,369 notification, a million different things. But I guess my 1699 01:46:14,369 --> 01:46:17,819 point is, once we have that figured out, and we can do that 1700 01:46:17,819 --> 01:46:23,369 efficiently, combining the decentralized chat slash 1701 01:46:23,369 --> 01:46:26,819 comments with with payment, I think is the way to go. 1702 01:46:27,450 --> 01:46:31,920 And live. Yeah. Yeah, all that together. Exactly. 1703 01:46:32,670 --> 01:46:35,640 So you wish your wishes granted. Mitch, anything else? You got 1704 01:46:35,640 --> 01:46:36,150 three? 1705 01:46:39,300 --> 01:46:43,920 I guess one more thing. I won't use the third wish would be you 1706 01:46:43,920 --> 01:46:44,130 always 1707 01:46:44,130 --> 01:46:47,340 have to wish for three more, that's always wish 1708 01:46:49,170 --> 01:46:52,890 would be in I haven't. I'm not totally up to date with the cast 1709 01:46:52,890 --> 01:47:00,000 upon recommendations, but some sort of rating, like, like 1710 01:47:00,030 --> 01:47:05,070 popularity stats of some sort. So that we would not have to 1711 01:47:05,100 --> 01:47:09,510 necessarily track like pageviews with pod verse to give a ranking 1712 01:47:09,510 --> 01:47:13,710 system. So right now we have like just a really bare minimum 1713 01:47:13,740 --> 01:47:19,200 page view tracker, and whatever clips get the most page views go 1714 01:47:19,200 --> 01:47:23,340 up in our rankings. So it's a really crude algorithm and 1715 01:47:23,370 --> 01:47:24,180 improve 1716 01:47:24,660 --> 01:47:28,080 as messy because you can it can be gamed and all it's not good. 1717 01:47:28,080 --> 01:47:28,560 Yeah. Well, 1718 01:47:28,890 --> 01:47:34,050 one way ours works. One way to do it. If it were based on on 1719 01:47:34,050 --> 01:47:38,580 blockchain, on lightning payments, is not by the payment 1720 01:47:38,580 --> 01:47:40,830 amount, but by the number of transactions. 1721 01:47:43,170 --> 01:47:45,390 That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah, that's good idea. 1722 01:47:47,130 --> 01:47:50,670 There's many different things we could potentially sort by and 1723 01:47:50,670 --> 01:47:53,460 yeah, that would be a valuable one. And because people are 1724 01:47:53,460 --> 01:47:56,850 actually putting money into it. Yeah, it would be. It'd be 1725 01:47:56,850 --> 01:47:57,630 harder to game. 1726 01:47:58,740 --> 01:47:59,670 more costly. 1727 01:48:00,599 --> 01:48:04,739 Yeah. having to pay for having to pay for things stops a lot of 1728 01:48:04,739 --> 01:48:06,839 spam. It does. It really does. Yeah. 1729 01:48:09,630 --> 01:48:10,140 Okay. 1730 01:48:11,070 --> 01:48:13,560 What else? That's it. Are we done that? You're going to keep 1731 01:48:13,560 --> 01:48:16,650 your third wish for another time? Sorry. That's, 1732 01:48:16,649 --> 01:48:17,609 that's all I got. For now. 1733 01:48:17,640 --> 01:48:19,860 Mitch, thank you so much for everything that you've been 1734 01:48:19,860 --> 01:48:24,300 doing. And for the outstanding work, it's because it pod 1735 01:48:24,300 --> 01:48:30,630 verse.com that fm.fm I'm sorry, yes, pod. verse.fm. It's a great 1736 01:48:30,630 --> 01:48:35,970 app. It's no I have four I think on my box and I somehow I have 1737 01:48:36,000 --> 01:48:40,320 two pod versus now on my graphene. Oh, s Lucky you. Yes. 1738 01:48:40,320 --> 01:48:44,190 Cool. Which one is the newest one? Whichever one the chapters 1739 01:48:44,190 --> 01:48:48,990 work in. Right. That's the that's the one really appreciate 1740 01:48:48,990 --> 01:48:53,580 you coming on and, and for being a good sport. And just being a 1741 01:48:53,580 --> 01:48:56,010 good guy and being a great developer. It's it's a lot of 1742 01:48:56,010 --> 01:48:58,710 fun to have you in the group and, and you always have 1743 01:48:58,710 --> 01:49:01,530 thoughtful things to say so it's really it's good to be working 1744 01:49:01,530 --> 01:49:01,890 with you. 1745 01:49:02,310 --> 01:49:04,950 Well, thanks, Adam. Yeah, it's awesome to be here. I'm so glad 1746 01:49:04,950 --> 01:49:08,190 you guys put this community together. We were working pretty 1747 01:49:08,190 --> 01:49:11,370 much in isolation for those seven years. I was like doing 1748 01:49:11,370 --> 01:49:12,900 our own thing. And 1749 01:49:13,410 --> 01:49:14,610 years of Coronavirus. 1750 01:49:16,800 --> 01:49:20,730 quarantine though fortunately, not that but yeah, just the 1751 01:49:20,730 --> 01:49:23,640 community is so great. Being able to go on the mastodon 1752 01:49:23,850 --> 01:49:27,480 channel. And I mean, not only podcast questions, just 1753 01:49:27,480 --> 01:49:30,690 developer questions, it's better than Stack Overflow for me to 1754 01:49:30,689 --> 01:49:32,219 just adore Smith. 1755 01:49:32,250 --> 01:49:35,790 Now I'm stuck on something. Yeah, I posted there and there's 1756 01:49:35,820 --> 01:49:39,450 like three or four people who give me solutions. It's It's 1757 01:49:39,450 --> 01:49:42,870 really amazing. So yeah, thank you guys for putting this 1758 01:49:42,870 --> 01:49:47,430 together and taking podcasting to the next level. Thank you, 1759 01:49:47,520 --> 01:49:48,030 Dave. 1760 01:49:48,930 --> 01:49:56,280 Yeah, that's I'm overdue for a return to work. So I'm mad at 1761 01:49:56,280 --> 01:49:59,550 this thing. More I have no more things. 1762 01:49:59,580 --> 01:50:02,070 All right. Joe. Thank you both very much. That's in podcasting. 1763 01:50:02,070 --> 01:50:05,700 2.0 for this week, we'll do another board meeting next week. 1764 01:50:05,700 --> 01:50:09,660 Join us there for podcasting. 2.0 1765 01:50:25,560 --> 01:50:31,260 You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 visit podcast.com 1766 01:50:31,290 --> 01:50:32,880 for more information