1 00:00:00,659 --> 00:00:06,119 Casting 2.0 for March 11 2021, Episode 28 we got the cat by the 2 00:00:06,119 --> 00:00:13,829 tail. Always the cryptic messages always Friday once 3 00:00:13,829 --> 00:00:15,419 again Time for a board meeting. 4 00:00:16,500 --> 00:00:20,190 podcasting 2.0 as we discussed developments from podcast 5 00:00:20,370 --> 00:00:24,270 index.org with special guest today very excited. I'm Adam 6 00:00:24,270 --> 00:00:28,380 curry in Austin, Texas and in Alabama, the only man who can 7 00:00:28,380 --> 00:00:32,310 chase a runaway SQL query my friend on the other end, Dave 8 00:00:32,340 --> 00:00:33,570 Jones. 9 00:00:34,380 --> 00:00:41,970 I have so much work to do now. I have to I gotta go in every 10 00:00:41,970 --> 00:00:46,290 GitHub repo we have ever had to change do a search and replace 11 00:00:46,290 --> 00:00:50,640 and change subscribe to follow. freakin apple. I 12 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:51,240 swear. 13 00:00:52,740 --> 00:00:54,120 It's what everybody's doing now. 14 00:00:54,420 --> 00:01:00,030 Oh, man. Okay, well, you you're scratching off the scab right 15 00:01:00,030 --> 00:01:02,940 away. I had already kind of gotten over this what happened 16 00:01:02,940 --> 00:01:03,330 earlier, I 17 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:06,720 knew this was gonna trigger you so hard. Ladies 18 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:12,900 and gentlemen. Apple has upgraded their podcast app. And 19 00:01:13,410 --> 00:01:19,950 in 15 years, we have a huge development. We've changed 20 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:25,050 subscribe to follow and press went nuts. 21 00:01:26,220 --> 00:01:30,870 At least we can hug. You know, he says we can hug now. So so 22 00:01:30,870 --> 00:01:31,650 it's not all bad. I 23 00:01:31,650 --> 00:01:36,150 have a story about follow. But first. Here's what I found 24 00:01:36,150 --> 00:01:41,340 extremely disappointing. Okay, now I did not hear or read of a 25 00:01:41,340 --> 00:01:46,680 single news or journalistic outlet that was taking all of 26 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:52,140 this great new information. We can now have more episodes in 27 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:56,490 the apple podcast app. And we've changed subscribe to follow. No 28 00:01:56,490 --> 00:02:00,780 one said Hey, did you guys consider the podcast namespace 29 00:02:00,780 --> 00:02:03,510 at all? Have you thought about it? No one ever asked these 30 00:02:03,510 --> 00:02:05,640 questions, what the fuck? 31 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:09,210 It is journalists, journalistic, 32 00:02:09,719 --> 00:02:14,549 journalistic, bankrupt it's bankrupt. I mean, we're so 33 00:02:14,609 --> 00:02:19,319 German news is so used to sucking off these companies when 34 00:02:19,319 --> 00:02:26,039 they release a new phone mainly. And they love reviewing the apps 35 00:02:26,039 --> 00:02:30,599 on the beta. I'm reviewing the app. And no one says the simple 36 00:02:30,599 --> 00:02:36,719 things. I'm flabbergasted by that. Anyway, 37 00:02:36,810 --> 00:02:46,110 so the the idea that subscribe is confusing. I fully agree with 38 00:02:46,470 --> 00:02:50,190 with Todd Cochran. Don't think that's an issue. 39 00:02:50,310 --> 00:02:54,840 Know what? You describe all the tests. Everyone gives examples 40 00:02:54,840 --> 00:03:01,890 of podcast apps. And no one again, journalism. No one came 41 00:03:01,890 --> 00:03:09,420 up with Oh, YouTube has arguably the most successful. Published 42 00:03:09,420 --> 00:03:13,770 subscription mechanism used today is YouTube that literally 43 00:03:13,770 --> 00:03:17,820 says subscribe. But yeah, go ahead. 44 00:03:18,150 --> 00:03:23,460 here's the here's a, here's a quick way to around this, like, 45 00:03:23,670 --> 00:03:27,360 you hit the subscribe button. And if it asks you if you want 46 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:29,250 to pay money for it, just say no, 47 00:03:29,610 --> 00:03:34,680 you know, it's such a non issue. And it's even stupider that oh, 48 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:37,260 well, you know, Spotify has already been doing this. Yeah, 49 00:03:37,260 --> 00:03:40,320 they're so smart. Let me tell you, let me give the people a 50 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:44,550 little podcast history. Again, something I didn't read it was 51 00:03:44,550 --> 00:03:47,280 would have been worthwhile as long as you're sucking off 52 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:53,130 everybody on the Follow button. In 2007, we were in San 53 00:03:53,130 --> 00:03:56,670 Francisco with pod show. And we were building a podcast network, 54 00:03:56,670 --> 00:04:00,030 which I later learned you really can't monetize story for a 55 00:04:00,030 --> 00:04:05,490 different day. And we were really only doing the 56 00:04:05,490 --> 00:04:09,600 advertising aggregating part and pre financing essentially kind 57 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:13,860 of running it like a record label, I guess. And we heard 58 00:04:13,860 --> 00:04:17,100 about a competitor and this competitor was doing something 59 00:04:17,100 --> 00:04:20,700 really cool because they had an interface which I got to see 60 00:04:20,700 --> 00:04:24,060 once they had an interface that was all built in Flash. Now mind 61 00:04:24,060 --> 00:04:27,210 you, this was early days for this type of interface, 62 00:04:27,210 --> 00:04:33,300 particularly with multimedia and, and it was a publish and a 63 00:04:33,330 --> 00:04:37,530 listening platform. Both. Wow, okay, this is really smart. And 64 00:04:37,530 --> 00:04:40,920 I was you know, I knew we had the talent, which was our game, 65 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:45,240 but I felt that an interface could definitely you know, would 66 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:50,610 be important. You were worried. No, no, I wasn't worried. I 67 00:04:50,610 --> 00:04:56,550 wasn't worried. But I was I was prepared and they never released 68 00:04:56,550 --> 00:04:59,460 and they never released and, you know, when I finally saw what 69 00:04:59,460 --> 00:05:04,710 they had, not Released, they had pivoted. And the one thing I 70 00:05:04,710 --> 00:05:07,920 liked about their podcast interface at the time was 71 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:12,420 instead of subscribe, which was a discussion that went on for 72 00:05:12,450 --> 00:05:15,660 ever in the beginning of podcasting. So in my mind, this 73 00:05:15,660 --> 00:05:18,270 discussion would just do it, which is typical podcasting. 74 00:05:18,270 --> 00:05:21,810 2.0. Let's do all the steps over again, just now we know the 75 00:05:21,810 --> 00:05:24,720 outcome. So we can compress the timeline a little bit, which is 76 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:28,110 good, it's taking place. But they had changed, subscribe to 77 00:05:28,110 --> 00:05:31,560 follow. And that was the first time that was ever used. And I 78 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,590 really thought that was a brilliant way to do it, because 79 00:05:34,590 --> 00:05:38,340 we could never come up with the right wording. But this was also 80 00:05:38,340 --> 00:05:42,000 the days when it meant right click on this orange icon, copy 81 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:46,230 the link and then paste it into your subscribe box. And they 82 00:05:46,230 --> 00:05:50,550 pivoted odio went away. And they took that exact same technology, 83 00:05:50,700 --> 00:05:54,810 and it became Twitter. And they and they carried over the whole 84 00:05:54,810 --> 00:05:58,530 feed concept. It was in fact, RSS microblogging. It was in 85 00:05:58,530 --> 00:06:03,240 fact built on RSS, which they, you know, hence the fail whale. 86 00:06:04,050 --> 00:06:06,870 And they had to completely retool that but they kept the 87 00:06:06,870 --> 00:06:10,530 Follow button. That's how old this is. And that's the origins 88 00:06:10,530 --> 00:06:12,690 of it. It comes from podcasting. 89 00:06:14,100 --> 00:06:17,880 I don't know if anybody how many people remember the first days 90 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:22,530 of Twitter that no one ever bothered to ask all it was all 91 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:27,870 the interface was terrible. It went the service went down. All 92 00:06:27,900 --> 00:06:31,170 like multiple times a week. It was only SMS. 93 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:35,130 Oh, yeah. The fail whale baby. The SMS text messaging that was 94 00:06:35,130 --> 00:06:37,050 that's how it started. Sure. Yeah, I 95 00:06:37,050 --> 00:06:40,380 mean, it was it was garbage. Why did I wonder what why did they 96 00:06:40,380 --> 00:06:44,190 switch? What made them bail out on podcasting? Was there? What 97 00:06:44,190 --> 00:06:46,980 did was there some event that said new went through the 98 00:06:47,010 --> 00:06:50,160 rippled through the news, they said, okay, podcasting is 99 00:06:50,220 --> 00:06:51,750 overblown, it's gonna fail. 100 00:06:51,779 --> 00:06:55,919 Yeah, there were two things that took place. Okay. One is 101 00:06:56,399 --> 00:07:01,349 YouTube. YouTube was just coming out. This was before 2008, I 102 00:07:01,349 --> 00:07:05,099 think, or 2009 was when they were purchased. And the second 103 00:07:05,099 --> 00:07:08,939 thing was facebook, facebook was coming along, and they just went 104 00:07:08,939 --> 00:07:13,409 from you had to be.edu to whatever. And you could sign up. 105 00:07:13,409 --> 00:07:17,249 And I just and I think they brilliantly saw the opportunity. 106 00:07:18,119 --> 00:07:21,059 And they had the infrastructure, it was the basic RSS 107 00:07:21,059 --> 00:07:25,289 infrastructure, which did not scale to it for what they what 108 00:07:25,289 --> 00:07:32,639 they wanted to do. And I can see why. Yeah, that was it. I said, 109 00:07:33,119 --> 00:07:35,639 and they, I think they were actually it was one of these. 110 00:07:35,999 --> 00:07:39,509 They, they built it internally. And we're using it and liked it. 111 00:07:40,769 --> 00:07:46,409 That's the most organic form of development. It's amazing how 112 00:07:46,439 --> 00:07:50,939 they actually succeeded because of how rocky that first couple 113 00:07:50,939 --> 00:07:54,899 of years was, of the service being so unreliable and so 114 00:07:55,319 --> 00:07:59,339 weird. But it's really, it's really stunning that Twitter 115 00:07:59,609 --> 00:08:02,789 actually survived that that time period. Well, 116 00:08:02,790 --> 00:08:06,750 remember, they, they were dying by success because they had 117 00:08:06,750 --> 00:08:10,020 Ashton Kutcher. They brought in Demi Moore, they had the whole 118 00:08:10,020 --> 00:08:16,770 Planet Hollywood celebrities, they immediately understood the 119 00:08:16,770 --> 00:08:21,480 power of the celebrity tweet, and the celebrities caught it. 120 00:08:21,510 --> 00:08:26,250 They immediately like holy crap. And now the whole follow thing 121 00:08:26,250 --> 00:08:29,940 really fit in well with the cult status of celebrities Follow me. 122 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:33,300 I mean, this was a perfect, perfect combination. 123 00:08:33,330 --> 00:08:37,380 Cancer. Oh, okay. So I'm seeing this now. So the follow thing 124 00:08:37,860 --> 00:08:42,780 really is all about celebrity. Because you absolutely don't. 125 00:08:42,990 --> 00:08:46,170 Because if you're talking about it to meet, subscribe in a 126 00:08:46,170 --> 00:08:50,910 podcast is fits perfectly. Because you're subscribing. When 127 00:08:50,910 --> 00:08:53,400 you subscribe to something. It means you automatically get 128 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:56,190 delivered. Like you subscribe to a newspaper, or you subscribe to 129 00:08:56,190 --> 00:09:01,680 a magazine. You get it delivered to your mailbox on automatically 130 00:09:01,680 --> 00:09:04,620 and you don't have to think about it. Correct. Follow you 131 00:09:04,620 --> 00:09:08,400 don't follow a magazine lately. What about the word follow tells 132 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:12,210 you that you're going to get something automatically unless 133 00:09:12,210 --> 00:09:14,820 you're talking about celebrities, because you people 134 00:09:14,820 --> 00:09:20,580 do follow celebrities. Like oh, I follow. You know, what are you 135 00:09:20,580 --> 00:09:22,020 use Ashton Kutcher? No. 136 00:09:23,310 --> 00:09:27,720 No one says, Yeah, I follow the podcasting 2.0 podcast. 137 00:09:28,230 --> 00:09:29,190 And nobody says that 138 00:09:29,190 --> 00:09:32,040 subscribe to that. Yeah, I'm subscribed. So it's it's 139 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:35,400 meaningless. It was very disappointing. It tells me that 140 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:39,840 Apple has punted and they're going to do their podcast plus 141 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:43,560 or whatever they're going to do. Or the or they're doing a one 142 00:09:43,560 --> 00:09:47,160 two punch with some other stuff. I don't know, I just I, I could 143 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:50,340 not believe how disappointing this release was. It must just 144 00:09:50,340 --> 00:09:52,560 be a maintenance release because they're working on something 145 00:09:52,560 --> 00:09:56,970 else. And they're clearly not interested in the exciting 146 00:09:56,970 --> 00:10:02,610 development in the podcast ecosystem. And fact, we're doing 147 00:10:02,610 --> 00:10:08,040 a great exercise partially at podcast index dot social, but on 148 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:12,480 GitHub, to explain have create a document that explains 149 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:18,540 podcasting 2.0. And so this has been interesting to look at the 150 00:10:18,540 --> 00:10:20,820 document that kind of came together you wrote it, there's 151 00:10:20,820 --> 00:10:24,000 been some other pieces of input from people some pull requests, 152 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:28,920 but it doesn't really matter. The the the brain trust kind of 153 00:10:29,220 --> 00:10:31,890 put together what we were going to put in that document that 154 00:10:31,890 --> 00:10:36,180 document mostly I released it to be community, 155 00:10:37,290 --> 00:10:40,290 editable or whatever. Yeah, mostly because I just got so 156 00:10:40,290 --> 00:10:42,240 tired of writing. I've been doing some stuff. 157 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:45,900 It was time to it was time for you to hand the baton over. 158 00:10:46,590 --> 00:10:51,420 Yeah, so I'm rewriting A lot of it, not all of it. And I've 159 00:10:51,420 --> 00:10:57,510 taken a different course. And so I'm cuz I have been asked, I 160 00:10:57,510 --> 00:11:00,660 think what happened is we didn't say, Who is this really for? Who 161 00:11:00,660 --> 00:11:04,170 was this document for the person who had the best answer, 162 00:11:04,170 --> 00:11:10,380 actually, inadvertently, was James Cridland. He said, Oh, you 163 00:11:10,380 --> 00:11:14,190 know, I want to place the journalists can understand, as I 164 00:11:14,190 --> 00:11:17,880 said, at this point, so this comes into my rant. It's like, 165 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:20,790 well, if we can't make journalists understand and 166 00:11:20,790 --> 00:11:23,460 report on it, we're failing. If we can make journalists 167 00:11:23,490 --> 00:11:26,610 understand it, and report on it every single podcaster will be 168 00:11:26,610 --> 00:11:30,180 able to understand what's going on here. Okay, so is a really 169 00:11:30,180 --> 00:11:35,520 good point. So in my writing, I refer to legacy apps, Apple and 170 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:38,880 Spotify. It's true. 171 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:42,930 Thank you, My God, thank you for doing that. Because you know, 172 00:11:42,930 --> 00:11:48,840 what pisses me off so much I know, go in the IT world is when 173 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:51,450 people take something that's that is perfect, worked 174 00:11:51,450 --> 00:11:56,370 perfectly fine, and does and serves millions and millions of 175 00:11:56,370 --> 00:12:00,180 people on a daily basis with something and they call it 176 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:05,700 legacy. Like it's old and beat up and full of Botox and like, 177 00:12:05,700 --> 00:12:10,080 it's a piece of crap. Like, that is so erratic. And I love that 178 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,740 you did that. It's beautiful. It's a it's a turnaround. 179 00:12:14,820 --> 00:12:18,120 It's the old and I'm writing the sentence about new these new 180 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:21,300 features. I like, Oh, no, because I want to say, you know, 181 00:12:21,300 --> 00:12:25,680 you're podcasting. 2.0 is backwards compatible with legacy 182 00:12:25,680 --> 00:12:33,360 apps. I love it. It's awesome. It's all about the positioning. 183 00:12:34,590 --> 00:12:38,310 So yeah, so that's coming together and actually is with 184 00:12:38,310 --> 00:12:40,500 the keeper right now. So you know that that shits getting 185 00:12:40,500 --> 00:12:43,350 looked at she's now a communications professional. 186 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:47,490 There's, there's tons. Go ahead. 187 00:12:47,730 --> 00:12:49,650 Let me throw something in here real quick, because this fit 188 00:12:49,650 --> 00:12:56,610 this fits in. So it fits into the talk of legacy apps. That's 189 00:12:57,030 --> 00:13:00,180 a tweeted this morning on our account, which we don't usually 190 00:13:00,180 --> 00:13:05,220 tweet that. I sent out a tweet. And, and I feel pretty strongly 191 00:13:05,220 --> 00:13:08,280 about this. I started feeling thinking about it when I woke up 192 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:13,980 this morning. One thing that is I'll say this almost shameful 193 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:20,580 that more podcast apps have not adopted the transcript tag. 194 00:13:21,330 --> 00:13:23,040 Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely. 195 00:13:24,180 --> 00:13:27,330 And I mean, that I mean, that to the bottom of my heart, by the 196 00:13:27,330 --> 00:13:30,810 way, from an MBA perspective, it'll probably be mandatory at 197 00:13:30,810 --> 00:13:31,860 some point in the future. 198 00:13:32,310 --> 00:13:36,990 Yes, you know, so many, so many of these podcasts, companies and 199 00:13:36,990 --> 00:13:44,190 apps, and I can I think they're so you know, invested in, in, 200 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:47,940 you know, I don't even know what the word is, I don't want to say 201 00:13:47,940 --> 00:13:53,610 whoa, but like, like a modern a modern care for things like the 202 00:13:53,610 --> 00:13:58,680 climate, and all these things that we that we associate with 203 00:13:58,680 --> 00:14:03,120 progressive thinking, considering minority groups and 204 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:07,590 that kind of thing. The fact that this so few apps have 205 00:14:07,590 --> 00:14:13,050 adopted the transcript tag, which is immediately helps 206 00:14:13,410 --> 00:14:17,100 people with disabilities and people learning trying to learn 207 00:14:17,100 --> 00:14:18,660 another language. Yes, I 208 00:14:18,660 --> 00:14:19,920 check. It's almost shameful. 209 00:14:19,950 --> 00:14:23,280 You put that actually in the in the description in the document 210 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:25,860 about and I hadn't even considered the learning about a 211 00:14:25,860 --> 00:14:28,170 second language and it's really true. And 212 00:14:28,710 --> 00:14:32,310 we met and we met a guy when me and my wife met in Moscow, 213 00:14:32,310 --> 00:14:32,790 Russia. 214 00:14:33,510 --> 00:14:36,870 Okay, Dave, now you're blowing my mind, brother. 215 00:14:37,050 --> 00:14:39,690 Sorry, that's a different story. 216 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:41,910 I usually spot the spook. Okay, go for it. 217 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:46,770 Well, who is it me or her comrade? Tama Jones? 218 00:14:49,500 --> 00:14:56,850 Sir, no, we met on a trip to Russia. And at the time, we had 219 00:14:56,850 --> 00:15:02,580 a translator and his name was That oh my gosh, I Yvonne and 220 00:15:02,580 --> 00:15:06,000 Yvonne said that he learned English he spoke very good 221 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:10,440 English. He said that he learned English when he spent a couple 222 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:15,270 years as an exchange student in the US, and he learned it from 223 00:15:15,630 --> 00:15:19,650 watching cartoons on television with subtitles. 224 00:15:20,730 --> 00:15:23,640 Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's how the Dutch the Dutch have all movies 225 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:26,550 subtitled. That's how they learn English too. And they're very 226 00:15:26,550 --> 00:15:28,830 proficient. Yeah, 227 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:32,970 I mean, I think that I really think that if you are a podcast, 228 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:37,050 and I'm not, I'm the type of guy that's like, Hey, you do it 229 00:15:37,050 --> 00:15:40,530 every one of his frame free market free everything. But, but 230 00:15:40,530 --> 00:15:45,360 I really do think that that that tag is such low hanging fruit 231 00:15:45,690 --> 00:15:49,770 that would serve so much good in the community that I do feel 232 00:15:49,770 --> 00:15:53,940 like it's worthy of being labeled as shameful that so many 233 00:15:53,940 --> 00:15:54,840 have not done it. 234 00:15:55,380 --> 00:15:59,760 At last count 13.2% of all podcast feeds had the names to 235 00:15:59,790 --> 00:16:04,050 namespace adoption. So it's totally possible we have a 236 00:16:04,050 --> 00:16:07,470 number of of hosting companies already pumping them out, and a 237 00:16:07,500 --> 00:16:12,300 lot of apps that understand them. And the way to do this, 238 00:16:12,300 --> 00:16:16,590 and this is this is the constant issue with podcasting. The 239 00:16:16,590 --> 00:16:20,790 players as in the players in the game, app developers hosting 240 00:16:20,790 --> 00:16:26,430 companies, they always forget the power of the content. The 241 00:16:26,430 --> 00:16:32,490 podcast creators are your users too. And they will drive this 242 00:16:32,490 --> 00:16:35,340 they will drive adoption. I mean, when I when I started 243 00:16:35,340 --> 00:16:38,610 pushing the chapter images rotating, it became a thing. 244 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:41,340 Yeah. Yeah, 245 00:16:41,370 --> 00:16:43,500 the content drives everything. Yes. 246 00:16:43,650 --> 00:16:46,740 Well, that's often forgotten. And Well, anyway, this is why 247 00:16:47,070 --> 00:16:51,120 the entire podcast in 2.0 so exciting as it kind of 248 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:54,210 centralizes around podcast index.org right now and one of 249 00:16:54,210 --> 00:16:58,260 the first things that happened for us as we started this 250 00:16:58,260 --> 00:17:02,820 project one less than six months ago, and the two stated goals 251 00:17:02,820 --> 00:17:06,240 were to preserve podcasting as a platform for free speech. And to 252 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:08,910 retool podcasting as a platform for value for all the 253 00:17:08,910 --> 00:17:14,970 participants. And we had the lightning network in mind. We 254 00:17:14,970 --> 00:17:19,110 had already done a real deep dive and I was understanding it 255 00:17:19,110 --> 00:17:22,290 and I was able to convince you and you foolishly went, Okay, 256 00:17:22,290 --> 00:17:23,340 I'm sure Adam is right. 257 00:17:23,759 --> 00:17:26,429 Now you called me You called me when I was driving up to North 258 00:17:26,429 --> 00:17:30,209 Alabama. Oh, let's see, I meet up with a couple of guys. And 259 00:17:30,389 --> 00:17:32,549 that was like a two hour phone call. 260 00:17:32,579 --> 00:17:35,399 I think I was in my car when I was nine. I was in my car too. 261 00:17:35,399 --> 00:17:37,949 For some reason. I can't remember. I think so. I think to 262 00:17:38,129 --> 00:17:39,359 some call or something. Yeah. 263 00:17:40,110 --> 00:17:42,570 Yeah. And you laid it all out. You're like, you're like, here's 264 00:17:42,570 --> 00:17:45,300 the way I think this could work. And, and I think it can be like 265 00:17:45,300 --> 00:17:47,640 this. And we I mean, that was like a marathon call. 266 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:52,260 So we basically, you know, jam this value for value was valued 267 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:56,430 tag into the namespace as Okay, we'll see when it really goes 268 00:17:56,430 --> 00:18:01,650 in, but let's experiment with it. And then on podcast, index 269 00:18:01,650 --> 00:18:06,060 dot social, I get this ping from cuz I was actually I was 270 00:18:06,060 --> 00:18:09,390 searching around that's what I was. I was searching around who 271 00:18:09,420 --> 00:18:13,260 who can do this stuff. This lightning i'd figured out keys 272 00:18:13,260 --> 00:18:15,090 and and so I was trying to figure out where it you know, 273 00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:21,750 who was doing keys and and I came across swings chat. I think 274 00:18:21,750 --> 00:18:26,880 something on their GitHub, not even the actual app. And I was 275 00:18:26,880 --> 00:18:29,730 like, God, this look what I from what I'm reading here. It sounds 276 00:18:29,730 --> 00:18:33,180 like I think they even had a line on the GitHub, great for 277 00:18:33,180 --> 00:18:36,480 podcasting, too. You know, I was like, Okay, this guy, it's like 278 00:18:36,690 --> 00:18:40,350 soon to include podcasting. And like, holy crap, these guys kind 279 00:18:40,350 --> 00:18:45,510 of get it so I think I emailed the info at stack work calm or 280 00:18:45,930 --> 00:18:48,300 something like that. I think that's what it was. We're in 281 00:18:48,300 --> 00:18:53,700 full swing stock chat. And then I got a ping back from one of 282 00:18:53,700 --> 00:18:57,540 our guests who we have today who I wanted to bring in since we've 283 00:18:57,540 --> 00:18:59,940 been chatting away and Dave you and I can have this board 284 00:18:59,940 --> 00:19:03,180 meeting forever but we did invite two other members of the 285 00:19:03,210 --> 00:19:07,590 community from swings chat, please welcome to podcasting. 286 00:19:07,590 --> 00:19:11,610 2.0 Evan feenstra and Paul each boy 287 00:19:13,980 --> 00:19:14,820 Hey guys. 288 00:19:18,660 --> 00:19:21,060 You're as bad at interest as I am Yeah. 289 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:26,040 I think what let's start with Paul first because Paul was the 290 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:32,400 one who contacted me. Paul, once you tell me a bit about how you 291 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:36,030 found out I guess that email and then what you're thinking and 292 00:19:36,150 --> 00:19:39,030 shoot want you to guys just tell us what the hell you're doing. 293 00:19:40,470 --> 00:19:44,250 Well, I was first of all good to be here. I went into full on 294 00:19:44,250 --> 00:19:46,890 podcast listening mode while you guys are talking because that's 295 00:19:46,890 --> 00:19:50,100 how I'm used to hearing here and there pretty much gone. Whoa, 296 00:19:50,100 --> 00:19:51,150 wait, I got to talk now. 297 00:19:51,180 --> 00:19:52,890 So you to sleep. 298 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:55,710 You I was washing dishes over there. 299 00:19:56,730 --> 00:19:59,880 It's just like clubhouse you're on stage. Okay, you can talk 300 00:19:59,880 --> 00:19:59,970 now. 301 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,760 I can't say Wait, but but I didn't raise my hand. 302 00:20:04,380 --> 00:20:05,220 So 303 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:06,870 yeah, I mean, I 304 00:20:06,930 --> 00:20:10,290 remember getting your email, I think around the exact same 305 00:20:10,290 --> 00:20:14,850 time, it really was amazing timing that I found your podcast 306 00:20:14,850 --> 00:20:17,820 social. And some of the first features we did was was thanks 307 00:20:17,820 --> 00:20:22,260 was around podcasters. Because if you think about what we're 308 00:20:22,260 --> 00:20:25,410 doing, and just for people out there who don't know, us, but 309 00:20:25,410 --> 00:20:28,830 we've been chatting for a while now with you guys. And we really 310 00:20:28,830 --> 00:20:33,660 wanted to bring the ability to fund media and fun content 311 00:20:34,050 --> 00:20:37,950 without having to go through the middleman. And so when I think I 312 00:20:37,950 --> 00:20:41,610 heard you speak, on one of the podcasts you were on a camera 313 00:20:41,610 --> 00:20:45,480 was a while ago, I just said, Man, this guy gets it. And I got 314 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,900 onto your mastodon, and then at some point, we're chatting. So 315 00:20:48,900 --> 00:20:49,110 that was 316 00:20:49,109 --> 00:20:54,209 great. Right, right, right. It probably would be handy if you 317 00:20:54,209 --> 00:20:58,319 could explain a little bit about Sphinx chat. And how podcasting 318 00:20:58,319 --> 00:21:00,659 integrates into that just for people who've never seen it 319 00:21:00,659 --> 00:21:01,079 before. 320 00:21:02,069 --> 00:21:06,089 Yeah, so thanks, chat is the ability to communicate over the 321 00:21:06,089 --> 00:21:10,229 lightning network. And so what's different in a lot of people ask 322 00:21:10,259 --> 00:21:12,329 you guys to talk to your listeners about lightning 323 00:21:12,329 --> 00:21:15,839 network. But what's different about this is that everyone has 324 00:21:15,839 --> 00:21:20,489 tried to do payments on top of the free internet. So you got a 325 00:21:20,489 --> 00:21:23,519 website, now you can go pay with your credit card, that's always 326 00:21:23,519 --> 00:21:27,779 stuck out as a sore thumb. with lightning network, you're really 327 00:21:27,779 --> 00:21:30,569 adding the ability to communicate and send content 328 00:21:30,599 --> 00:21:34,799 over a payment network, the payments are really just native 329 00:21:34,829 --> 00:21:37,679 to the whole experience. And that's pretty cool. And that's 330 00:21:37,679 --> 00:21:40,799 what when similar to you guys, when you were doing that 331 00:21:40,799 --> 00:21:43,409 marathon call, I read the white paper and said, Oh, my God, this 332 00:21:43,409 --> 00:21:46,049 is really big and really different. And then people like 333 00:21:46,049 --> 00:21:50,309 Evan, who designed a lot of the systems itself, basically made 334 00:21:50,309 --> 00:21:53,399 it all happen. So you can listen to podcasts, you can talk to 335 00:21:53,399 --> 00:21:57,749 people, you can talk to your friends, you can join these 336 00:21:57,749 --> 00:22:01,139 tribes, and we'll do a lot more going forward. You know, 337 00:22:01,170 --> 00:22:05,550 what I enjoyed the most when when we actually hopped on, on a 338 00:22:05,550 --> 00:22:10,500 call, Paul. And I think we spoke for an hour, maybe longer, just 339 00:22:10,500 --> 00:22:14,670 philosophically, and it clicked so deeply right away. And I've 340 00:22:14,670 --> 00:22:18,540 even stolen some of the things you said, because, you know, I 341 00:22:18,540 --> 00:22:22,260 know the inherent issues with advertising and creating content 342 00:22:22,260 --> 00:22:25,530 and how that, by definition limits you and what you can say 343 00:22:25,530 --> 00:22:28,140 sort of we can talk about a competing product to favorably 344 00:22:28,140 --> 00:22:32,280 just as one small example, or have a wrong political opinion 345 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,700 that might not fit with the advertiser. And you boil that 346 00:22:35,700 --> 00:22:40,710 down for me into advertising is censorship. And, and I was like, 347 00:22:40,740 --> 00:22:43,980 okay, just just like when you were listening to our shows, I 348 00:22:43,980 --> 00:22:47,520 said, Yeah, this guy really gets it. And in addition to that, 349 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,330 it's like, as I was learning the Bitcoin community, and certainly 350 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:57,000 those who are in lightning development, everybody wants to 351 00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:02,910 get their fair piece, and they want to get paid. In fact, one 352 00:23:02,910 --> 00:23:05,280 of the things you and I talked about is, Hey, you know, if out 353 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:08,640 of this comes one or two huge Silicon Valley, multi 354 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:13,170 billionaires, then we fucked it up big time. But so that led to 355 00:23:13,170 --> 00:23:19,320 another quote of yours that I use, the free is over. And 356 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,200 that's, I think, core to what Sphinx chat is all about, as you 357 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,980 talk about it being really an application that sits on top of 358 00:23:25,980 --> 00:23:29,130 a payment network and uses that as the vehicle for all these 359 00:23:29,130 --> 00:23:30,510 payloads of content. 360 00:23:32,309 --> 00:23:36,629 Yeah, and I think what we talked about on that first call, is it 361 00:23:36,629 --> 00:23:40,589 free to free sounds great, right? And humans are hardwired 362 00:23:40,589 --> 00:23:45,389 to respond to free differently. But free when it comes to 363 00:23:45,389 --> 00:23:49,259 technology turned out to be the most expensive business model 364 00:23:49,259 --> 00:23:53,189 out there, if you value your time. And that's the problem. 365 00:23:53,729 --> 00:23:58,679 We've all accidentally and without really intending traded 366 00:23:58,679 --> 00:24:01,829 our attention on our time and bitcoiners talk a lot about 367 00:24:01,829 --> 00:24:05,879 scarce assets. And so what's the one thing everyone talks about? 368 00:24:05,879 --> 00:24:10,109 You never get more of his time? And so without really setting 369 00:24:10,109 --> 00:24:12,389 out to do it, and I don't think there was some conspiracy 370 00:24:12,389 --> 00:24:15,389 theory. And then, I mean, you and I are around for the early 371 00:24:15,389 --> 00:24:17,939 days of the internet, no one set out a plan, hey, I'm going to 372 00:24:17,939 --> 00:24:19,889 build this free service, I'm going to get everyone to pay 373 00:24:19,889 --> 00:24:22,949 attention to it. I was there we were all trying to make money, 374 00:24:22,949 --> 00:24:25,739 but there was no money to be made on the internet, right? 375 00:24:25,769 --> 00:24:29,099 We're, you'd be crazy to put a credit card into a website in 376 00:24:29,099 --> 00:24:33,959 the mid 90s. I felt totally unnatural, right. So if we had 377 00:24:33,959 --> 00:24:36,989 had Bitcoin or an internet currency of that time, who knows 378 00:24:36,989 --> 00:24:40,169 how we how it would have turned out, but if you have the 379 00:24:40,169 --> 00:24:45,359 services and they are free, they will grow and someone has to pay 380 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,359 for it sometime. And advertisers raised their hand and said, Hey, 381 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,749 we'll pay for it. How do I know I worked in advertising in the 382 00:24:51,749 --> 00:24:59,999 90s so believe me these guys were had no idea there was no 383 00:24:59,999 --> 00:25:02,939 Plan, there was nothing, it was just where eyeballs will go pay 384 00:25:02,939 --> 00:25:05,489 for eyeballs, whereas attention will pay for attention by my 385 00:25:05,489 --> 00:25:10,859 widget, you know. So that is, I think, our the opportunity that 386 00:25:10,859 --> 00:25:15,059 we're all sitting at now. And I think this is where podcasting 387 00:25:15,449 --> 00:25:21,359 really is the crux of a historic change from what we accidentally 388 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:26,939 got into versus what we have going forward. So, and you guys 389 00:25:26,939 --> 00:25:30,119 rag on Apple and stuff for being so out of date with podcasting, 390 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:34,799 but I view that as a positive because it is so ripe for 391 00:25:34,799 --> 00:25:37,739 change. And what you guys are doing is kind of unlocking the 392 00:25:37,739 --> 00:25:40,889 dam that is going to allow some of these changes to take place. 393 00:25:41,399 --> 00:25:44,849 And serendipity serendipitously, here's Bitcoin, here's lightning 394 00:25:44,849 --> 00:25:49,379 at the exact same time. We really have this opportunity, so 395 00:25:49,409 --> 00:25:52,709 you guys better not screw it up. What, 396 00:25:53,069 --> 00:25:54,389 you know what we're gonna screw it up? 397 00:25:55,980 --> 00:25:58,920 No doubt about. So when Dave and I first 398 00:25:58,950 --> 00:26:01,440 that's why we have Evan, you guys. Yes, yeah, 399 00:26:02,460 --> 00:26:03,420 I'll fix the bugs. 400 00:26:04,650 --> 00:26:09,690 That's a perfect time to bring Evan in. As you know, as we were 401 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,170 just getting this initial, you know, the initial front to back 402 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,470 working from podcaster wallet.com. And having the feed 403 00:26:16,470 --> 00:26:20,250 show up and tribes automatically created and tons of stuff. You 404 00:26:20,250 --> 00:26:25,350 know, we my conversations were really with Paul and two, were 405 00:26:25,350 --> 00:26:27,360 talking, you know, the three of us, but then there was this 406 00:26:27,360 --> 00:26:30,390 magical thing that would happen. And that turned out that magical 407 00:26:30,390 --> 00:26:35,790 thing had a name. Evan, who's one of my favorite kind of 408 00:26:35,790 --> 00:26:38,400 developers, because he's a musician. He plays, you know, 409 00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:43,260 guitars, saxophone trumpet, which I know is like that, that 410 00:26:43,260 --> 00:26:48,300 confirms my software development is science, but also really big 411 00:26:48,300 --> 00:26:51,450 art. So admin, it's really, really good to meet the guy 412 00:26:51,450 --> 00:26:54,000 who's been who's been doing a lot of that behind the scenes, 413 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:54,750 so to speak. 414 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:58,950 Yeah, it's been a lot of fun to work on this stuff. I 415 00:26:58,950 --> 00:27:02,520 definitely. I mean, I've I've always kind of seen 416 00:27:02,730 --> 00:27:08,190 micropayments in general, being the real sort of potential in 417 00:27:08,190 --> 00:27:12,840 Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. And the thing that can really 418 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,050 change the internet, because exactly like you guys talked 419 00:27:16,050 --> 00:27:20,130 about with your value for value. When you're streaming money one 420 00:27:20,130 --> 00:27:23,700 way, and you're streaming content back the other way. You 421 00:27:23,700 --> 00:27:27,180 don't necessarily need, you don't need that credit card 422 00:27:27,180 --> 00:27:29,430 number, right. You don't need a username, you don't need a 423 00:27:29,430 --> 00:27:33,420 password. I mean, we don't we don't even we don't even know 424 00:27:33,660 --> 00:27:37,680 how many users we have on Sphinx. Good day. This is not 425 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:42,120 even a way to know. In fact, this release, where we just put 426 00:27:42,120 --> 00:27:46,020 out earlier today is adding private lightning channels to 427 00:27:46,050 --> 00:27:50,040 spank Ooh, nice, which means you won't even be able to see the 428 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:50,520 routing, 429 00:27:50,819 --> 00:27:54,389 right, you won't be able to scan the graph to see who's using 430 00:27:54,389 --> 00:27:54,989 Spanx. 431 00:27:55,920 --> 00:28:00,870 I'm sure marnix is gonna love that. Message Board. He's always 432 00:28:00,870 --> 00:28:03,180 bitching about he can't they can't i can't context. Thanks, 433 00:28:03,180 --> 00:28:05,190 nodes. Hey, um, yeah, 434 00:28:05,190 --> 00:28:07,710 so like, it's more that that gives more privacy to users, 435 00:28:07,710 --> 00:28:12,600 obviously. But it also means for us, we don't we don't have to 436 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:17,730 manage all these identities and and these relationships with 437 00:28:17,730 --> 00:28:22,140 users necessarily, I mean, why should my online identity be 438 00:28:22,350 --> 00:28:26,190 mediated by some database in some data center, right? Like, 439 00:28:26,190 --> 00:28:29,820 if I want to, I can do that. But also, if I want to, I can just 440 00:28:29,820 --> 00:28:33,000 run my identity at home on a Raspberry Pi. So, you know, 441 00:28:32,999 --> 00:28:37,529 I've been ever since I was introduced to, to the tribes 442 00:28:37,529 --> 00:28:42,839 concept. And, and an important part of that is boosting, which 443 00:28:42,839 --> 00:28:51,119 is just fucking phenomenal idea. The, the, I've been trying to 444 00:28:51,509 --> 00:28:55,619 communicate to our developers, that once we have some 445 00:28:55,619 --> 00:29:00,599 infrastructure in place with lightning network, how much 446 00:29:00,869 --> 00:29:05,579 complexity goes away in creating community features? Exactly what 447 00:29:05,579 --> 00:29:08,969 you just said, Evan, you don't need to maintain a database, you 448 00:29:08,969 --> 00:29:12,089 know, your authentication can be built into your, your node ID, 449 00:29:12,089 --> 00:29:17,219 all these things can just happen seamlessly. But I think it's one 450 00:29:17,219 --> 00:29:20,039 of those things, you really have to see it and experience it to 451 00:29:20,039 --> 00:29:21,689 understand it and believe it 452 00:29:21,839 --> 00:29:22,799 exactly right. 453 00:29:23,369 --> 00:29:28,169 How does that play into with the sinks, like, sinks relay is 454 00:29:28,169 --> 00:29:33,209 something that, that I've been pretty intrigued by I know that 455 00:29:33,779 --> 00:29:36,869 a lot of people are setting that up on a Raspberry Pi. I mean, 456 00:29:36,899 --> 00:29:41,399 how much it's a little bit of a brain twister, to think about 457 00:29:41,429 --> 00:29:45,299 that whole thing. And but if you set up a Sphinx relay, just for 458 00:29:45,299 --> 00:29:49,589 my knowledge, and for anybody else, who's who's curious. I 459 00:29:49,589 --> 00:29:53,669 mean, what can you not do and what I mean, are you a full 460 00:29:53,669 --> 00:29:57,959 participant in in Sphynx chat, just like you would be if you 461 00:29:57,959 --> 00:29:58,619 were hosted 462 00:30:00,269 --> 00:30:03,989 Yeah, that's all a hosted note is is just a relay running in 463 00:30:03,989 --> 00:30:07,829 the cloud. So if you set it at home, you're basically storing 464 00:30:07,829 --> 00:30:14,909 your messages at home. And your, you know, chat records at home 465 00:30:14,909 --> 00:30:15,389 and everything, 466 00:30:15,449 --> 00:30:18,029 it really became apparent to me how it works, you know, because 467 00:30:18,119 --> 00:30:20,999 when you just have your Sphinx chat app, and you just connected 468 00:30:20,999 --> 00:30:24,629 to Sphinx chat, you know, whatever is working. And then 469 00:30:24,629 --> 00:30:30,089 when I set one up on my raspy Blitz at home, and the minute my 470 00:30:30,329 --> 00:30:37,409 full node, total came up, that's when it hit me, oh, it's just a 471 00:30:37,409 --> 00:30:42,239 wallet. It has elements of all these other wallet, for 472 00:30:42,239 --> 00:30:44,429 instance, Thunder hub, you can, you know, it's a little 473 00:30:44,429 --> 00:30:47,099 different, but you can send a chat message with one satoshis 474 00:30:47,099 --> 00:30:52,109 to another Thunder hub user. And that's when it boiling, it just 475 00:30:52,109 --> 00:30:56,669 went, the lightning bolts went off. And from what and maybe I'd 476 00:30:56,669 --> 00:30:58,709 really like to talk about scalability for a second, 477 00:30:58,709 --> 00:31:02,879 because it's really important for the overall rollout of what 478 00:31:02,879 --> 00:31:06,269 we're doing. First of all, I have the feeling that that we 479 00:31:06,269 --> 00:31:09,749 broke you a little bit, but that really became advantageous, 480 00:31:10,259 --> 00:31:13,379 because we learned so much about you know, the number of 481 00:31:13,379 --> 00:31:17,279 transactions how this will be working with no, I mean, I know 482 00:31:17,279 --> 00:31:20,159 you guys were working really hard behind the scenes for weeks 483 00:31:20,159 --> 00:31:23,399 and weeks and weeks. And from what I understand, one of the 484 00:31:23,399 --> 00:31:26,969 most exciting developments to come out of that is for scape 485 00:31:26,969 --> 00:31:31,259 for scalability, is there'll be different ways to host virtual 486 00:31:31,259 --> 00:31:32,939 nodes. Am I saying this correctly? 487 00:31:34,530 --> 00:31:36,090 Right, yes, you heard of this? 488 00:31:36,149 --> 00:31:36,929 Yeah, go ahead. 489 00:31:37,050 --> 00:31:39,360 You pick it? Well, I was gonna say it's part of the Private 490 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:44,070 Channel. thing, being able to put a private channel node 491 00:31:44,070 --> 00:31:52,410 behind another routing node, but also potentially, like a virtual 492 00:31:52,470 --> 00:31:56,190 private node. Maybe you can explain them better. Paul, I'm 493 00:31:56,190 --> 00:31:56,910 so deep into 494 00:31:59,250 --> 00:32:00,090 that didn't help him 495 00:32:00,150 --> 00:32:00,690 now. Thanks. 496 00:32:02,460 --> 00:32:06,750 I'll, I think what we were talking about before is a 497 00:32:06,750 --> 00:32:09,330 different way to read. So maybe taking a step back is think of 498 00:32:09,330 --> 00:32:14,130 the app, the sinks app on your phone as a remote control. So 499 00:32:14,490 --> 00:32:17,310 just the way you could control your TV from, you know, your if 500 00:32:17,310 --> 00:32:21,240 you have an iPhone from your Apple remote, the Sphinx app on 501 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:25,860 your phone is really just talking to relay that's running 502 00:32:25,890 --> 00:32:30,060 on a lightning node. Right? So relay is just translating the 503 00:32:30,060 --> 00:32:34,020 tap finger tapping on your phone into things that lightning can 504 00:32:34,020 --> 00:32:37,920 understand, as a relay translates that into a lightning 505 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:41,100 message. And then it sends from there out onto the lightning 506 00:32:41,100 --> 00:32:44,010 network to everyone else, it looks just like a normal 507 00:32:44,010 --> 00:32:48,960 lightning transaction, could be a payment, it could be an invite 508 00:32:48,960 --> 00:32:52,800 to a video call, it could be a message, the whole point is you 509 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,860 don't know and no one should know, right? you increase the 510 00:32:55,860 --> 00:32:59,760 privacy side of what's happening. And so you don't want 511 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,790 stuff that looks like a payment to look different from something 512 00:33:02,790 --> 00:33:06,090 that looks like just the message. And if you have an I 513 00:33:06,090 --> 00:33:10,230 think we just hit we just tried to, we actually can't tell. But 514 00:33:10,230 --> 00:33:13,170 if you happen to be using one of our routing nodes on the 515 00:33:13,170 --> 00:33:17,310 lightning network, we have forwarded well over 350,000 516 00:33:17,310 --> 00:33:21,810 messages in the last three months. So far. Wow. That's 517 00:33:21,810 --> 00:33:24,180 incredible. That's not the counting the minutes that are 518 00:33:24,180 --> 00:33:27,120 being sent to you guys. Yeah, we that's just, 519 00:33:27,150 --> 00:33:31,920 you know, we're seeing like 10,000 minutes a month, that's 520 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,710 off the last 10,000 transactions. 521 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:40,170 Well, that that's gonna grow with what, what happened, Tom 522 00:33:40,170 --> 00:33:43,740 and the rest of the guys just did. So there's, there's several 523 00:33:43,740 --> 00:33:47,370 people working on this mine, it seems to so just, we could have 524 00:33:47,370 --> 00:33:50,610 everyone on. But um, so back to that thing. So you have remote 525 00:33:50,610 --> 00:33:52,950 control, you have relay, translating, then you have 526 00:33:52,950 --> 00:33:55,740 lightning, all of these message in all of these transactions 527 00:33:55,740 --> 00:33:59,010 bouncing around the peer to peer lightning network. And so think 528 00:33:59,010 --> 00:34:01,830 of the lightning record is just a constellation of these 529 00:34:01,830 --> 00:34:04,230 computers that are talking to each other using the lightning 530 00:34:04,230 --> 00:34:07,920 protocol. And you're sending tiny amounts of Bitcoin with 531 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,940 every transaction or message that goes through that network. 532 00:34:12,210 --> 00:34:15,270 And you're paying your freight there's tiny tiny fees 1000s of 533 00:34:15,270 --> 00:34:18,900 a penny or even a Mila fat right which I don't even know what the 534 00:34:18,900 --> 00:34:22,800 unit of that is a penny right now, but you're paying miniscule 535 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,550 amounts but you are paying and what that does is I think of it 536 00:34:26,550 --> 00:34:30,660 like those, it's like an immune system we're free it's in there 537 00:34:30,900 --> 00:34:34,410 and free equals abuse free is denial of service for you to 538 00:34:34,410 --> 00:34:37,260 spam. And then once you have all those things and you need 539 00:34:37,260 --> 00:34:40,740 somebody to pay for it that opens the door to centralization 540 00:34:40,740 --> 00:34:43,050 and advertising and all the censorship and you end up in the 541 00:34:43,050 --> 00:34:44,010 same place we are now 542 00:34:44,099 --> 00:34:48,239 oh I am writing down free is abuse as another one I'm just 543 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,989 steal from you. Thank you very much. Yeah, okay. 544 00:34:52,860 --> 00:34:57,840 So that to me, and this is where just in this goes back to the 545 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,120 lightning protocol devs. And by the way, that goes down to The 546 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,280 Bitcoin devs, who we should all be supporting, we're trying to 547 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,790 figure out how to do a better job of that ourselves, as we are 548 00:35:05,790 --> 00:35:09,510 freeloading off of Bitcoin and the lightning protocol and 549 00:35:09,510 --> 00:35:12,510 building this app layer on top of these two things, and I know 550 00:35:12,510 --> 00:35:15,180 you guys know Ryan Gentry and you've talked to folks at 551 00:35:15,180 --> 00:35:17,520 lightning labs, there's other implementations are see 552 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,940 lightning, there's, I think in France, there's a really light 553 00:35:20,940 --> 00:35:23,910 node client coming out of Japan. So there's really cool stuff 554 00:35:23,910 --> 00:35:27,720 happening. And we're just scratching the surface. And just 555 00:35:27,720 --> 00:35:30,510 one thing that's happening in one part of the lightning 556 00:35:30,510 --> 00:35:35,160 network, so to people who are new to this, don't think of what 557 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:38,040 we're doing here as all inclusive of what's happening, 558 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:42,090 lightning, tons of other stuff happening. So but Yeah, go 559 00:35:42,090 --> 00:35:42,300 ahead. 560 00:35:42,330 --> 00:35:43,470 No, go ahead, please. 561 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:48,210 Yeah, so I was just gonna say so that understanding that 562 00:35:48,210 --> 00:35:51,240 structure, Dave, to what you're asking about, what does relay do 563 00:35:51,240 --> 00:35:55,890 is really important. So that gets you and if you are running 564 00:35:55,890 --> 00:36:01,200 relay and your node and you have a channel, then you can operate 565 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:05,400 over this free protocol. And you're a full fledged lightning 566 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,000 node on the on the platform on the network. So that could be 567 00:36:09,390 --> 00:36:12,780 from a Raspberry Pi. And there are tons of people now running 568 00:36:12,780 --> 00:36:17,190 on rolls running, running Raspberry Pi, Blitz, all good 569 00:36:17,190 --> 00:36:21,360 stuff, right? Different pros and cons to each. None of them are 570 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,930 simple yet. So if anyone tells you they're simple, I had 571 00:36:24,930 --> 00:36:29,190 trouble doing it. People have trouble doing this. So if you're 572 00:36:29,340 --> 00:36:32,970 trying if you're thinking, hey, that must be me. No, no, it's 573 00:36:32,970 --> 00:36:37,200 not you. And what we're gonna do if there's interest and maybe 574 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:41,280 hit people up on the on the mastodon group, is if I talked 575 00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:46,890 to Gonzalo about running a once a week, video chat, or just some 576 00:36:46,890 --> 00:36:50,730 meetup or something online, where everyone who wants to run 577 00:36:50,730 --> 00:36:54,180 one at home, we could spend an hour answering any questions. 578 00:36:54,180 --> 00:36:57,090 Oh, that's right. On channels a good idea. It's kind of doing 579 00:36:57,090 --> 00:36:58,290 like a build party. 580 00:36:58,380 --> 00:37:02,130 So I've seen we already have day probably like five or six devs 581 00:37:02,130 --> 00:37:06,030 now who have set up a variety of different different types of 582 00:37:06,150 --> 00:37:07,440 nodes at home are 583 00:37:07,470 --> 00:37:08,550 Yeah, that's right. 584 00:37:08,700 --> 00:37:11,190 Yeah. And it's been it's been beautiful to watch, you know, 585 00:37:11,190 --> 00:37:15,450 the all the struggles, all the things that can go wrong, even, 586 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,030 you know, hey, I set up a raspy Blitz, but I don't have the 587 00:37:18,030 --> 00:37:22,860 chain on my drive, you know, two days later, okay. All of these 588 00:37:22,890 --> 00:37:27,210 minor things, Nat, port forwarding, etc. But yeah, of 589 00:37:27,210 --> 00:37:29,880 course, that's it's all going to get easier. How are you going? 590 00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:36,210 How are you positioning, Sphinx chat? in the market? It being? I 591 00:37:36,210 --> 00:37:38,940 mean, is there? Is there a category that it fits under? Is 592 00:37:38,940 --> 00:37:41,370 it because it doesn't really feel like it? That's the 593 00:37:41,370 --> 00:37:44,070 category all by itself? Yeah, 594 00:37:44,100 --> 00:37:47,790 I mean, I try to think about that. Because when you're trying 595 00:37:47,790 --> 00:37:49,800 to describe what you're working on your friends, it's a little 596 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:51,960 bit confusing. So they're saying, you know, friends, they 597 00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,810 still wait, you guys are a podcast app now? 598 00:37:54,839 --> 00:37:56,369 Yeah. Yeah. 599 00:37:57,359 --> 00:37:59,999 You know, a lot of people say wallet. I think all of those 600 00:37:59,999 --> 00:38:03,989 terms can really limit what if you haven't system that's this 601 00:38:03,989 --> 00:38:08,939 new. To use a dated analogy can sometimes be a problem, right? 602 00:38:08,939 --> 00:38:11,879 It can limit what people think you can do or what you think you 603 00:38:11,879 --> 00:38:17,219 can do yourself, right. So what we're maybe what we're trying to 604 00:38:17,219 --> 00:38:19,649 do is if I think back to a couple of things, it's the 605 00:38:19,649 --> 00:38:23,639 wallet part is really about the ability to earn. Right now. 606 00:38:23,669 --> 00:38:27,329 Hopefully, this is generating stats to podcast index. 607 00:38:27,630 --> 00:38:30,780 Oh, it's generating SATs. Let me just say something about that 608 00:38:30,780 --> 00:38:35,250 quick. Yeah. So one of the one of the things that we came up 609 00:38:35,250 --> 00:38:38,610 with was this split. So you're sending, you know, payments, 610 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:43,320 you're splitting up a per minute payment to podcast or defined 611 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,440 recipients. And just to give you an idea, because the numbers are 612 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,470 very low, it's micro payments, and we only have you know, what, 613 00:38:49,470 --> 00:38:52,740 maybe a dozen people or so who I really, I don't know, I mean, no 614 00:38:52,740 --> 00:38:55,140 one knows exactly how much I think Marty has a lot of 615 00:38:55,140 --> 00:39:01,110 listeners, but it's limited. And so one of the guys who he his 616 00:39:01,110 --> 00:39:06,300 name is Neil, he's the clip custodian nickname. And he's 617 00:39:06,300 --> 00:39:09,900 been creating like 10 to 12 really high quality clips for me 618 00:39:09,900 --> 00:39:13,590 to play on no agenda, every single show. And so I gave him a 619 00:39:13,590 --> 00:39:20,820 5% split in the in the in the value block. And, and Neil, you 620 00:39:20,820 --> 00:39:24,450 know, I don't know how sophisticated he is. But I sent 621 00:39:24,450 --> 00:39:27,900 him an invite he got set up on swings chat. I said, you know, 622 00:39:27,900 --> 00:39:30,150 can you give me your node, he was able to figure that out. 623 00:39:30,330 --> 00:39:35,250 Dave put it into the block. And now he says it's Adams it's such 624 00:39:35,370 --> 00:39:38,520 cuz he will do this for free. He doesn't need anything for it. He 625 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:43,530 says it's like mental fuel of motivation, like a micro dosing 626 00:39:43,530 --> 00:39:47,220 little bits of goodness, every single time because that each 627 00:39:47,220 --> 00:39:51,000 payment each streaming payment, represents someone who is 628 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,390 enjoying what he was also a part of, it's I get I really get 629 00:39:54,390 --> 00:39:57,660 goosebumps when I say it because I know that if this is times 630 00:39:57,660 --> 00:40:00,450 1000 people are going to be making some real money. And it's 631 00:40:00,450 --> 00:40:02,100 gonna be really crazy. 632 00:40:03,510 --> 00:40:06,630 I want to see it, I love to see it. That's the freedom to earn 633 00:40:06,810 --> 00:40:09,150 it. Here's the thing, too, that we shouldn't ignore. So for 634 00:40:09,150 --> 00:40:12,960 everyone who's doing podcasting or any content creation, but for 635 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:18,600 now podcasting, the audience was limited by the payment system, 636 00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,870 right? So if you want audience support, how do I get you to 637 00:40:21,870 --> 00:40:26,520 support? We'll do Venmo, do you have PayPal, cash, app cards, 638 00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,720 cash out, you just cut out what percentage of the universe of 639 00:40:30,720 --> 00:40:35,310 the world right can't pay you. So you have an audience, someone 640 00:40:35,310 --> 00:40:38,250 in a suburb outside of Manila, listen, your podcast and getting 641 00:40:38,250 --> 00:40:42,750 a lot of value out of it. Now you can capture that value. That 642 00:40:42,750 --> 00:40:46,800 person actually I think, experiences it differently. When 643 00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,500 they are supporting the thing they appreciate, I actually 644 00:40:49,500 --> 00:40:53,040 think the listening experience is better, when you know that 645 00:40:53,040 --> 00:40:54,330 you are contributing to the hole 646 00:40:54,900 --> 00:41:00,630 that is proven. 14 years of no agenda proves people really want 647 00:41:00,630 --> 00:41:03,990 to pay makes them feel good. They want to pay something 648 00:41:03,990 --> 00:41:10,080 that's meaningful to them, which can be numerology or just how 649 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:16,920 much money they can afford. And this is, I think, how this fits 650 00:41:16,920 --> 00:41:22,320 into bitcoin, I'm going to use the term space is its inherent, 651 00:41:22,830 --> 00:41:28,470 this inherent to people who are switched on to Bitcoin, to be 652 00:41:28,500 --> 00:41:33,330 philanthropic and be open and the freedom they feel of owning 653 00:41:33,330 --> 00:41:36,570 and controlling their own money and sending it like a text 654 00:41:36,570 --> 00:41:39,630 message. Because that's what it is. It's like, wow, I just sent 655 00:41:39,630 --> 00:41:41,700 you a money, but it didn't go through a whole bunch of other 656 00:41:41,700 --> 00:41:45,030 people. You know, I didn't have to do a whole bunch of things. 657 00:41:45,060 --> 00:41:47,610 It's, it's, it's a very good experience. 658 00:41:47,970 --> 00:41:51,300 Well, that I mean, going back to that, that's about personal 659 00:41:51,300 --> 00:41:54,210 sovereignty and responsibility. And if you are going to take 660 00:41:54,210 --> 00:41:58,500 that on, that means that you can't be a spectator alone, you 661 00:41:58,500 --> 00:42:02,280 have to be the man in the arena, you have to step in, and that 662 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,250 could be just streaming SAS as you listen to a podcast, right? 663 00:42:05,430 --> 00:42:08,730 We're not asking anyone to go into battle here. But it's you 664 00:42:08,730 --> 00:42:12,270 need to act. Yeah, things aren't gonna, I mean, advertisers will 665 00:42:12,270 --> 00:42:15,330 let you consume passively. Sure. That's one model you can exist 666 00:42:15,330 --> 00:42:17,790 in. But I think that in the back of people's mind, it doesn't 667 00:42:17,790 --> 00:42:21,840 feel right. And I think that once you start to see something 668 00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:25,890 new, and you start to feel that it feels different, and that's 669 00:42:25,890 --> 00:42:29,520 when I listen to, you know, Marty's podcasts or your 670 00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:34,740 podcast. Three things that I said, Wow, I didn't predict that 671 00:42:34,740 --> 00:42:37,740 it would actually change the listening experience. And I feel 672 00:42:37,740 --> 00:42:38,100 better. 673 00:42:38,190 --> 00:42:41,070 Oh, yes. Oh, yes. Yeah, it totally does. I felt that when I 674 00:42:41,070 --> 00:42:44,520 first started using Sphinx, the saints have as well, when we 675 00:42:44,520 --> 00:42:48,120 talked about it on the show of how very quickly I mean, within 676 00:42:48,150 --> 00:42:51,420 a couple of days, I started to feel guilty if there was a show 677 00:42:51,420 --> 00:42:57,660 on Sphinx chat. That was that I knew it was there. But I was 678 00:42:57,660 --> 00:43:01,560 listening in a different app. So I would just flip back to that 679 00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:05,430 switch back to Sphinx chat, and, and start listening just purely 680 00:43:05,430 --> 00:43:09,240 so I could know, that I was sending them value, no matter 681 00:43:09,240 --> 00:43:10,710 how small it was, you know, 682 00:43:10,770 --> 00:43:11,970 I love it. I love 683 00:43:11,970 --> 00:43:15,000 it. You know, and I only say this, say this I on that whole 684 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:23,130 idea of free and free versus you know, pay. I think we actually 685 00:43:23,130 --> 00:43:26,610 wrote a blog about this forever ago, I think that we miss, I 686 00:43:26,610 --> 00:43:31,170 think that we may misunderstand this, that issue that we I think 687 00:43:31,170 --> 00:43:34,740 we tend to mentally see it as a spectrum, to where you have free 688 00:43:34,740 --> 00:43:39,000 on one side, and you have very expensive on the other side. And 689 00:43:39,030 --> 00:43:44,280 we think of it like like a just a long spectrum, single line. 690 00:43:44,430 --> 00:43:49,230 But I think I really think it's more like a, like a circle. So 691 00:43:49,500 --> 00:43:53,100 where where the where the ends of the spectrums bend around and 692 00:43:53,100 --> 00:43:56,370 begin to meet again at the bottom, so that you have free, 693 00:43:56,370 --> 00:44:00,840 you know, free on the left and priceless on the right. And 694 00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:04,350 those things are actually closer together, then you can go yes. 695 00:44:04,380 --> 00:44:07,500 And so like, what that and I think that's where the social 696 00:44:07,500 --> 00:44:12,390 media and the freemium stuff, I think they operate in that 697 00:44:12,390 --> 00:44:17,520 psychological space. Because if they can give you a service for 698 00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:22,050 free, you'll be willing to give away things that are actually 699 00:44:22,050 --> 00:44:28,080 priceless. In order to use it. Because the the the idea of free 700 00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:30,510 and priceless are not opposite ends of the spectrum. They're 701 00:44:30,510 --> 00:44:33,720 actually they're, they're hard to discern the difference 702 00:44:33,720 --> 00:44:37,470 mentally, because there's not really a cost you can put on 703 00:44:37,470 --> 00:44:42,390 either one of them is a thing, that idea. Like if you actually 704 00:44:42,390 --> 00:44:45,600 split it out and take away free and say that this does cost 705 00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:49,500 something, it helps you to actually place a value on it and 706 00:44:49,500 --> 00:44:55,140 say, Okay, this is what I'm not willing to give up. These things 707 00:44:55,140 --> 00:44:58,560 in my life like my personal information, like my contacts 708 00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:02,460 list on a phone, if it's club All these things that you're not 709 00:45:02,460 --> 00:45:06,900 willing to give away, when the thing actually costs money, you 710 00:45:06,900 --> 00:45:10,860 may be willing to give it away when it's free, because you just 711 00:45:11,190 --> 00:45:15,030 your mind had the human mind, I think has a difficult time 712 00:45:15,330 --> 00:45:19,290 making sense out of something that's free as far as how do you 713 00:45:19,290 --> 00:45:21,420 value that in relation to something else? 714 00:45:23,219 --> 00:45:26,039 It's not just the law, the state or the zero state, you know, 715 00:45:26,039 --> 00:45:29,039 yeah, David's microdosing stats, I think, but no. 716 00:45:32,730 --> 00:45:33,750 I, 717 00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:37,350 I see exactly what you mean. And they do meet back, right. And 718 00:45:37,350 --> 00:45:40,410 I'm actually just picturing a graphic, we should put that into 719 00:45:40,410 --> 00:45:44,790 a graphic, right? You do come full circle back, when you get 720 00:45:44,820 --> 00:45:49,770 priceless and free our neighbors not opposites, right. But I so 721 00:45:49,770 --> 00:45:52,890 but to me, that whole going back to the whole thing of freedom to 722 00:45:52,890 --> 00:45:55,920 earn, right, that's, that shouldn't be a human right. And 723 00:45:55,920 --> 00:46:00,960 it shouldn't be limited by the place you were born necessarily, 724 00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:03,390 right. I feel like that's going to be an artifact, hopefully, of 725 00:46:03,390 --> 00:46:06,300 the future. Someone's got something interesting to say in 726 00:46:06,300 --> 00:46:09,540 some random place that no one's been to. And they're going to be 727 00:46:09,540 --> 00:46:13,320 able to collect an audience of tons of people around the world 728 00:46:13,560 --> 00:46:16,440 and make a living from that because they're providing value. 729 00:46:17,310 --> 00:46:20,370 You can remove those friction points, I think we all benefit 730 00:46:20,370 --> 00:46:24,150 from kind of adding their contributions to the idea soup 731 00:46:24,150 --> 00:46:26,550 instead of getting the same ones from the same people around us. 732 00:46:26,550 --> 00:46:32,160 So the borderless part, I think, really is important. And I think 733 00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:36,210 we'll end up with a more interesting kind of exchange 734 00:46:36,210 --> 00:46:38,640 here, right? If it happens, this is the whole importance of 735 00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:41,940 decentralization. And this is you guys turned us on to RSS 736 00:46:41,940 --> 00:46:45,030 like I didn't really pay attention RSS since I think when 737 00:46:45,030 --> 00:46:47,790 it came out. We all look at it and we're all hacking away on 738 00:46:47,790 --> 00:46:53,190 things but amazing that this becomes the foundation for 739 00:46:53,220 --> 00:46:53,850 decent, 740 00:46:54,180 --> 00:46:59,370 decentralized AI. Hey, man, decentralized RSS is such a 741 00:46:59,370 --> 00:47:04,200 beautiful thing. It's It's so obvious why Google kills their 742 00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:08,010 feed reader. You cannot you cannot compete with it. It's 743 00:47:08,010 --> 00:47:09,180 just it's too good. 744 00:47:09,780 --> 00:47:10,410 In a dissent, 745 00:47:10,410 --> 00:47:12,990 someone pointed out to me though, that did you know that? 746 00:47:13,020 --> 00:47:17,610 And I haven't played with it. But medium and substack offer 747 00:47:17,610 --> 00:47:18,090 RSS 748 00:47:18,750 --> 00:47:24,330 is kind of interesting. appstack is doing podcast now. Oh, yeah. 749 00:47:24,330 --> 00:47:26,070 They're on my list. I want they need to 750 00:47:26,070 --> 00:47:30,060 have a frickin node. Kidding. He could do we need this might be 751 00:47:30,060 --> 00:47:32,880 the next board meeting right here. It is. It 752 00:47:32,879 --> 00:47:35,459 is a board meeting. Paul, we take everything you say serious? 753 00:47:35,459 --> 00:47:35,909 And it's on the 754 00:47:35,910 --> 00:47:37,920 record. Yeah, you're an honorary. So 755 00:47:42,300 --> 00:47:47,580 it's a I'm also gonna say, it's pretty amazing that this like 756 00:47:47,580 --> 00:47:53,070 decades old or I don't know how old RSS is, but seems like it's 757 00:47:53,070 --> 00:47:56,760 been around. Yeah, it's kind of this perfect system that's 758 00:47:57,390 --> 00:48:00,930 already sort of been there for a long time. And it's sort of 759 00:48:00,930 --> 00:48:04,320 creating this bastion of free speech, like no matter what, 760 00:48:04,380 --> 00:48:07,950 you're not gonna be able to necessarily take down a file. 761 00:48:08,010 --> 00:48:13,590 You can even email someone an RSS file. The multi modality of 762 00:48:13,590 --> 00:48:17,700 it makes it so there's not really any way to, you know, 763 00:48:17,730 --> 00:48:18,390 cancel it. 764 00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:21,750 Evan, I have a couple of questions for you specifically. 765 00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:30,720 The first one is when can I on? Like no agenda, say? Everybody 766 00:48:30,720 --> 00:48:36,270 needs to go get swings chat right now. Because 767 00:48:36,270 --> 00:48:38,730 we live your world. 768 00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:40,890 That's what I've been waiting for. That's it. I've been 769 00:48:40,890 --> 00:48:45,510 waiting to be able to say that. And, and I understand the issues 770 00:48:45,510 --> 00:48:48,690 of me saying that, because I just don't know how, how does 771 00:48:48,690 --> 00:48:49,410 this scale? 772 00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:53,850 Paul is gonna tell you today, and I'll tell you next week. 773 00:48:56,490 --> 00:49:00,000 That's kind of how we've been going. But But literally, next 774 00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:04,110 week, this time, it's for real next week. Oh, although Paul 775 00:49:04,110 --> 00:49:05,130 will say yeah, 776 00:49:05,190 --> 00:49:09,720 we just, I think literally right before this episode started, 777 00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:15,600 Evan pushed the multi tenant version a relay out to GitHub, 778 00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:20,820 so don't anyone go turn it on right now? I'm not gonna need to 779 00:49:21,300 --> 00:49:23,550 use cowboys. I thought you were Paul. 780 00:49:25,290 --> 00:49:26,070 Believe me. 781 00:49:28,199 --> 00:49:32,609 I'm suppressing that instinct as much. So the the Umbro guys need 782 00:49:32,609 --> 00:49:35,909 time to update the release. They don't have an ad hoc release 783 00:49:35,909 --> 00:49:39,149 system on the App Store yet that they have. So they have these 784 00:49:39,149 --> 00:49:44,459 apps and we can as app, you know, presence on on their 785 00:49:44,459 --> 00:49:47,549 dashboard. We don't have the ability to push updates to the 786 00:49:47,549 --> 00:49:51,299 roads, which is probably smart for them, right? Yeah, yeah. And 787 00:49:51,299 --> 00:49:54,689 so you just told them yesterday. Hey, guys, we have a new version 788 00:49:54,689 --> 00:49:56,639 coming out. We need to do the same, but with anyone else. 789 00:49:57,330 --> 00:49:59,580 How does that work? I mean, so if a whole bunch of people go 790 00:49:59,580 --> 00:50:05,490 get this chat app. I mean, the I'm just talking about listeners 791 00:50:05,490 --> 00:50:09,180 who want to support the show, will they it's seamless to them 792 00:50:09,180 --> 00:50:12,150 about any upgrades you've done all that stuff is it's all in 793 00:50:12,150 --> 00:50:15,540 the background. And they can just go ahead and and I guess I 794 00:50:15,540 --> 00:50:18,330 would presume purchase their node for a couple bucks and then 795 00:50:18,330 --> 00:50:19,110 get up and running. 796 00:50:20,009 --> 00:50:23,339 Yeah, we're gonna offer two different types of nodes. One is 797 00:50:23,369 --> 00:50:27,329 meant for podcasters. And that's we calling those dedicated. And 798 00:50:27,329 --> 00:50:30,959 that means you have a channel and you are running the lnd 799 00:50:30,959 --> 00:50:34,529 software and relay software on a virtual machine. Gotcha. And you 800 00:50:34,529 --> 00:50:37,229 can do that exactly, exactly what you have now this will you 801 00:50:37,229 --> 00:50:40,169 have any Raspberry Pi Blitz in general? So you have a channel, 802 00:50:40,169 --> 00:50:43,979 think of it as I have a channel, because the channel is a Bitcoin 803 00:50:43,979 --> 00:50:49,799 transaction. Bitcoin has limited real estate, you cannot create a 804 00:50:49,799 --> 00:50:53,789 million channels a day on the Bitcoin blockchain even if you 805 00:50:53,789 --> 00:50:57,839 wanted to write. And so what the virtual node does, where we're 806 00:50:57,839 --> 00:51:02,639 calling lighter virtual node, is that you have the ability to be 807 00:51:02,789 --> 00:51:07,169 a participant on someone else's node. So in Bitcoin, they call 808 00:51:07,169 --> 00:51:11,609 this the Uncle Jim model, where someone you know, and somewhat 809 00:51:11,609 --> 00:51:16,379 trust is running a node and has the channel and you are 810 00:51:16,379 --> 00:51:21,029 piggybacking off their system. All your content is still 811 00:51:21,029 --> 00:51:25,409 private. You can still do everything you want on the on 812 00:51:25,409 --> 00:51:28,979 the lightning network, but you are running from somebody 813 00:51:28,979 --> 00:51:32,219 running on someone else's node and sharing their channel which 814 00:51:32,219 --> 00:51:33,749 is communicating out. Gotcha. 815 00:51:33,780 --> 00:51:38,070 So that's how you scale it. Oh, yeah. Okay. So I 816 00:51:40,230 --> 00:51:43,380 still end to end encrypted, basically. So it's not like 817 00:51:43,410 --> 00:51:45,030 Uncle Jim can read your messages, 818 00:51:45,510 --> 00:51:47,370 which is real creepy. And my uncle. 819 00:51:50,340 --> 00:51:54,360 That was lm D. Is that where that came from? 820 00:51:54,660 --> 00:51:59,190 It did good. Yeah, cuz lm d 12. Has this HDFC interceptor. 821 00:52:00,090 --> 00:52:04,080 feature. And then, so now we're able to create these private 822 00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:08,790 channels. I'm just writing day or may not be real. There's a 823 00:52:08,790 --> 00:52:10,200 lot of pieces to it. 824 00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:15,060 Are you gonna drop that at dinner? Just sound sound killer 825 00:52:15,060 --> 00:52:15,540 here. 826 00:52:15,690 --> 00:52:20,820 He should absolutely have a HPLC interceptor t shirts made? 827 00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:27,030 credit. I mean, credit goes to, I believe the breeze guys, you 828 00:52:27,030 --> 00:52:31,470 guys are talking to worked with lightning labs on the original 829 00:52:31,470 --> 00:52:35,160 thing. I may be getting the history wrong. But that is just 830 00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:39,150 a feature of the underlying protocol that we're using to 831 00:52:39,150 --> 00:52:41,790 help people get on board. So they 832 00:52:41,790 --> 00:52:44,580 only did that because they're not a full on. Yeah, 833 00:52:44,580 --> 00:52:47,250 there's no one knows. Right? 834 00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:50,460 Yeah, if you're running a node, they run mobile nodes, I 835 00:52:50,460 --> 00:52:54,630 believe. But I'm not I'm not an expert on it. But they run 836 00:52:54,630 --> 00:52:57,570 mobile nodes. And so sometimes if your phone's off, the 837 00:52:57,570 --> 00:53:00,480 interceptor can capture the payment on the way in, I 838 00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:01,590 believe, the 839 00:53:02,130 --> 00:53:03,060 Watchtower. 840 00:53:03,570 --> 00:53:06,780 Kind of like that. Yeah, yeah, it is a little bit like that. 841 00:53:06,780 --> 00:53:08,760 Maybe. So the Watchtower is more like, hey, someone tried to 842 00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:13,500 cheat me out of my channel. But so what this so think about this 843 00:53:13,500 --> 00:53:16,440 model for a second, if we were to go the most private version, 844 00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:19,350 and then work our way back to the hosted versions, but let's 845 00:53:19,350 --> 00:53:22,200 say you were the Raspberry Pi Blitz, if you were running this 846 00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:25,320 multi tenant version, you could say to your no agenda listeners, 847 00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:31,770 hey, sign up on my node as a virtual node, they would provide 848 00:53:31,770 --> 00:53:34,830 Bitcoin they would or you know, they would either buy it or send 849 00:53:34,830 --> 00:53:39,810 it. Now, what they would have is a full on address, the app and 850 00:53:39,810 --> 00:53:42,540 everything. They'd be listening to the podcast talking on tribes 851 00:53:42,540 --> 00:53:45,690 doing everything, but they wouldn't have their own channel. 852 00:53:46,170 --> 00:53:48,570 They would be running off of your 853 00:53:48,690 --> 00:53:52,470 right, and how many how many? Do you have virtual nodes? Or you 854 00:53:52,470 --> 00:53:57,000 know, how many if I'm Uncle Jim, how many kids can I have? 855 00:53:58,950 --> 00:54:02,130 Well, we haven't quite really tested the limits, but 1000s and 856 00:54:02,130 --> 00:54:03,180 1000s. Oh, well, 857 00:54:03,180 --> 00:54:04,470 that'll be my job then. 858 00:54:04,500 --> 00:54:05,040 Hello. 859 00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:07,800 test the limits. Now. 860 00:54:07,830 --> 00:54:09,090 Now, are you guys setting 861 00:54:09,300 --> 00:54:12,420 we'll have a love a bounty. If you can break it will you'll win 862 00:54:12,420 --> 00:54:13,140 some reward a 863 00:54:13,890 --> 00:54:17,700 bad idea? Or a bad idea? Man, I'm, 864 00:54:17,759 --> 00:54:18,539 I'm an expert. 865 00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:19,890 I'm an expert at breakage. 866 00:54:20,550 --> 00:54:22,380 It'll be worth it. It'll be worth it. 867 00:54:22,830 --> 00:54:26,340 That's very exciting. That is that is super exciting. And now 868 00:54:26,340 --> 00:54:30,480 will this all be also be available, like as an add on to 869 00:54:30,480 --> 00:54:33,660 any of the voltage nodes or anyone who wants to go more with 870 00:54:33,660 --> 00:54:35,010 a host hosted solution? 871 00:54:36,150 --> 00:54:38,310 We're talking to Graham, I mean, I just painted with him 872 00:54:38,310 --> 00:54:43,050 yesterday. So anyone with a voltage node can run one of 873 00:54:43,050 --> 00:54:45,180 these. They have a channel 874 00:54:45,210 --> 00:54:47,040 fucking love this community. 875 00:54:49,500 --> 00:54:54,720 Also, I mean, this is also why it's so difficult to roll stuff 876 00:54:54,720 --> 00:54:56,940 out because there's all these people with different app 877 00:54:56,940 --> 00:54:59,580 versions and different relay versions, different lnd 878 00:54:59,580 --> 00:55:00,870 versions. Yeah, 879 00:55:00,870 --> 00:55:01,170 who's 880 00:55:01,170 --> 00:55:02,460 really on there? So 881 00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:05,760 Oh, but Evan also different different business models, 882 00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:08,610 different philosophy, well does a general philosophy. And 883 00:55:08,610 --> 00:55:11,910 that's, I think what pulls it all together, I am constantly 884 00:55:11,910 --> 00:55:16,110 amazed, you know how, you know, we're, we were looking for kind 885 00:55:16,110 --> 00:55:21,030 of a semi hosted solution and bumped into Tim over at ln PE. 886 00:55:21,270 --> 00:55:25,170 And he's like, Sure, I'll throw some API together. And everyone 887 00:55:25,170 --> 00:55:29,040 just kind of puts it all in there and SATs start flowing. 888 00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:31,740 And everyone says, Okay, I'm getting some SATs here from 889 00:55:31,980 --> 00:55:36,210 either a split or routing fee, and everyone sees where they can 890 00:55:37,020 --> 00:55:39,360 benefit from it and, and grow. 891 00:55:39,390 --> 00:55:40,800 It's just, it's, 892 00:55:41,070 --> 00:55:43,680 it's so and I don't know how old you are, Evan, but it's so 893 00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:48,300 analogous to the early days, I'm talking yo 90. For me, it was 894 00:55:48,300 --> 00:55:53,460 like 9394, when the web just you know, the NCSA mosaic browser 895 00:55:53,490 --> 00:55:56,040 browser just came along, but how people were all kind of working 896 00:55:56,040 --> 00:55:59,790 together, even with with peering agreements at the network level. 897 00:55:59,790 --> 00:56:02,010 I mean, it's so analogous to that. 898 00:56:03,000 --> 00:56:04,590 Yeah, I was a baby at the time. So 899 00:56:06,390 --> 00:56:10,770 if Did you see marnix posted that that like layout that 900 00:56:10,770 --> 00:56:14,190 showed all the node interconnects on the mastodon, 901 00:56:14,850 --> 00:56:18,660 it, it's just basically he just boiled all the he took all the 902 00:56:18,660 --> 00:56:22,230 podcast or nodes that are listed he, he's my he's constantly 903 00:56:22,230 --> 00:56:27,480 monitoring the podcast index to see who has value blocks, and 904 00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:31,140 where the nodes in what node keys, they are good. So then he 905 00:56:31,140 --> 00:56:35,700 does analysis on that. So he put together this map that shows all 906 00:56:35,700 --> 00:56:39,810 the interconnections between all the nodes. And it's, it's cool, 907 00:56:39,810 --> 00:56:43,620 man, it's like a complete like podcast. It's like a podcast 908 00:56:43,620 --> 00:56:46,230 routing network within lightning itself. 909 00:56:46,259 --> 00:56:50,399 Yeah, yeah. It's cool. And you know, I'd like channels to your 910 00:56:50,579 --> 00:56:53,069 to your routing node, I think you got a routing node and 911 00:56:53,069 --> 00:56:55,649 voltage. So I've opened a channel there. And everyone's 912 00:56:56,069 --> 00:56:58,589 opening channels is really quite interesting. 913 00:56:59,670 --> 00:57:04,710 So the the ideal state here would be that podcaster, sets up 914 00:57:04,710 --> 00:57:08,220 node, get voltage home, whatever the in the beginning, we're 915 00:57:08,220 --> 00:57:11,760 running this to make sure we can work out the kinks. They could. 916 00:57:12,360 --> 00:57:17,010 So they could start a node, bring on these light node users 917 00:57:17,010 --> 00:57:19,560 who will probably be their listeners, but don't necessarily 918 00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:22,650 have to be someone could join the no agenda node. And then 919 00:57:22,650 --> 00:57:25,290 listen to Tales from the Crypt. Yeah, of course, of course, just 920 00:57:25,470 --> 00:57:30,540 like a normal user. And then what you could do is, so now 921 00:57:30,540 --> 00:57:33,720 you're running all of these users. And then they want to 922 00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:36,960 decide to run their own node, they have a real lightning pub 923 00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:41,070 key and can leave, they can leave their own up, right, 924 00:57:41,100 --> 00:57:44,730 right. Yep. And then they can get their own channel, which is 925 00:57:44,730 --> 00:57:47,730 great. And we've always wanted that portability. So if someone 926 00:57:47,730 --> 00:57:51,240 has a hosted node and wants to go to a home node they can 927 00:57:51,390 --> 00:57:54,540 write. And then this also allows you to do some neat stuff with 928 00:57:54,540 --> 00:57:57,510 forwarding and stuff like that, too. So if you have one of these 929 00:57:57,510 --> 00:58:00,570 virtual nodes, you can actually just forward it to another node. 930 00:58:00,750 --> 00:58:04,500 Oh, my God, I'm interesting. No way. Now you can sign up for 931 00:58:04,530 --> 00:58:07,380 something using a completely different pub key that no one 932 00:58:07,380 --> 00:58:11,220 knows that's your normal pub key and supporting trick, it gets to 933 00:58:11,220 --> 00:58:17,250 be all kinds of fun things here. And so that I think is so that 934 00:58:17,250 --> 00:58:21,450 will remove this whole issue of Can I get one of these nodes? 935 00:58:21,450 --> 00:58:24,150 And can I get an invite, which we're not trying to be exclusive 936 00:58:24,150 --> 00:58:26,550 about this? We're literally running a server and doing a 937 00:58:26,550 --> 00:58:29,370 Bitcoin transaction for every single user on this network 938 00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:35,790 right now, right? So this way, it can bring people on. They are 939 00:58:35,790 --> 00:58:38,070 dependent on that note, they could kick you off, they could 940 00:58:38,070 --> 00:58:41,010 go down at your your unroll or your Raspberry Pi Blitz, Adam 941 00:58:41,010 --> 00:58:43,350 could go down and all your friends are yelling at you 942 00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:47,160 again, right. So it's not you know, it's like the early days 943 00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:50,970 of isbs when it was in closets and apartments, right, and a 944 00:58:50,970 --> 00:58:52,470 bunch of modems. 945 00:58:53,580 --> 00:58:57,960 Believe me, I run a mastodon server with 10,000 users. And I 946 00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:00,060 know what happens when it goes down. 947 00:59:01,500 --> 00:59:02,460 Emails fun, 948 00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:05,130 not fun. It's not fun. 949 00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:07,500 Wow. So I wanted that. 950 00:59:07,530 --> 00:59:10,230 So that if you if you think about the friction wages weren't 951 00:59:10,230 --> 00:59:12,840 real quick, I want to make sure that we talked about some of the 952 00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:14,880 main friction points about running loose ends because this 953 00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:18,510 is a message to the podcasters thinking about doing this is 954 00:59:18,510 --> 00:59:22,170 that now you have a place to interact. podcasting has not had 955 00:59:22,170 --> 00:59:25,350 community very well. Right. So now you can interact with people 956 00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:28,440 who are self selecting to be your most loyal listeners 957 00:59:28,440 --> 00:59:31,200 because they want to contribute value for what you're providing. 958 00:59:31,560 --> 00:59:32,070 Right. 959 00:59:32,820 --> 00:59:35,880 Now, Adam, you run into this, you're going to get SAS, it's 960 00:59:35,880 --> 00:59:39,450 going to pile up with the lightning network. If all of the 961 00:59:39,450 --> 00:59:43,170 stats are on your side of the channel channels boards, you got 962 00:59:43,170 --> 00:59:47,430 to rebalance. Yeah, you have a clog in the pipe. Right. And so 963 00:59:47,460 --> 00:59:49,980 with lightning labs and the tools that they're coming out 964 00:59:49,980 --> 00:59:53,250 with, they have these new things of auto loop out so 965 00:59:54,989 --> 00:59:57,329 oh my god, so smart. Cool. 966 00:59:57,360 --> 01:00:02,760 So if you have this kind of I guess, first class problem of 967 01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:06,780 having too many fats, you can set it and say, Hey, if I hit 968 01:00:06,780 --> 01:00:10,380 this percentage on my side of the channel, rebounded, I would 969 01:00:10,380 --> 01:00:14,100 like Bitcoin to be sent on chain to this backup address, and then 970 01:00:14,100 --> 01:00:15,300 you can send it to that address. 971 01:00:15,330 --> 01:00:18,720 Yeah, because that function used to be done by a guy named Paul 972 01:00:18,750 --> 01:00:22,710 E. Toi. Who I would then email and say, my channels works like 973 01:00:23,400 --> 01:00:24,540 liquidity, Brahma. 974 01:00:25,770 --> 01:00:27,690 And then I'd be in my car with a laptop. 975 01:00:30,719 --> 01:00:34,979 I think we got like nine, like, like, 10 channels to Marty's 976 01:00:34,979 --> 01:00:38,099 node because oh, keep catching up on that side. 977 01:00:38,100 --> 01:00:41,070 So yeah, Marty's on fire, man. He's on fire. 978 01:00:41,610 --> 01:00:44,940 And so that and so the channel issues the second thing. So 979 01:00:44,940 --> 01:00:48,720 another thing that's coming out is, what's already out is pool. 980 01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:53,070 So yeah, if you're, if you're a podcaster, and you don't want to 981 01:00:53,370 --> 01:00:57,270 lock up you to open a big lightning channel that requires 982 01:00:57,270 --> 01:01:00,510 a Bitcoin, I think if it is it's escrowed, in this account, 983 01:01:00,930 --> 01:01:06,150 between you and the other node. So if you don't want to put 984 01:01:06,510 --> 01:01:11,130 $5,000 worth of Bitcoin in a hot wallet on a node between you and 985 01:01:11,130 --> 01:01:13,950 someone else, you can rent and you can actually pay someone 986 01:01:13,950 --> 01:01:18,090 right now, whatever it is where I've seen aprs of three to 10%. 987 01:01:18,090 --> 01:01:20,430 Let's say it's caught five, I feel like is a great number to 988 01:01:20,430 --> 01:01:26,100 get to. You can rent someone else's Bitcoin for 5%. So you 989 01:01:26,100 --> 01:01:30,270 could be paying $30 a month for your get voltage node $20 a 990 01:01:30,270 --> 01:01:34,140 month your channel. And you could be hosting 1000s of light 991 01:01:34,140 --> 01:01:37,680 nodes. Who are your listeners? Yep. And that 50 bucks is 992 01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:41,070 nothing right. It's just a it's part of the cost of doing 993 01:01:41,070 --> 01:01:42,420 business. Interesting. I 994 01:01:42,420 --> 01:01:48,210 in order to proceed, I have to ask in pool that have been there 995 01:01:48,210 --> 01:01:54,630 for six weeks. And it's I don't know why I just I can't get my I 996 01:01:54,630 --> 01:01:57,870 can't get my my offers to be taken up by anybody. I'm going 997 01:01:57,870 --> 01:02:03,630 to come on man. This is I got low, low low APR Come on. Yeah, 998 01:02:03,660 --> 01:02:06,900 practically given the channel away. That still had that 999 01:02:06,900 --> 01:02:08,700 marketplace to last to heat up a bit. 1000 01:02:09,870 --> 01:02:11,520 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It's coming. 1001 01:02:11,850 --> 01:02:14,370 The interface is very complicated still. So 1002 01:02:15,449 --> 01:02:18,989 yeah, boy, and they're making huge improvements on that front. 1003 01:02:19,019 --> 01:02:22,709 But I think that demand here could come from podcasters. 1004 01:02:22,709 --> 01:02:29,759 Again, no, podcaster deciding, right. And then the savvy and 1005 01:02:29,759 --> 01:02:33,779 then getting those channels, and then having this flow of value 1006 01:02:33,779 --> 01:02:37,379 coming through. Then they discover other podcasts. Now 1007 01:02:37,379 --> 01:02:39,539 they're, you know, they might be on the no agenda node, but 1008 01:02:39,539 --> 01:02:42,239 they're listening to 10 podcasts. And they're streaming 1009 01:02:42,239 --> 01:02:44,369 SATs can be a great system. 1010 01:02:44,520 --> 01:02:49,650 And can you as Uncle Jim, do you tell you also take advantage of 1011 01:02:49,650 --> 01:02:51,870 the network fees that are sent through these nodes? 1012 01:02:52,949 --> 01:02:55,559 You can set them to whatever you want, but it'll probably be 1013 01:02:55,559 --> 01:02:59,759 competitive, right? I'm skeptical that lightning routing 1014 01:02:59,759 --> 01:03:04,349 fees, at least in the short term will add up to a whole lot. But 1015 01:03:05,189 --> 01:03:09,389 you never know. Right? I mean, I think there will be competition 1016 01:03:09,389 --> 01:03:10,649 for routing fees. 1017 01:03:11,430 --> 01:03:13,290 There has to be a market, right? 1018 01:03:13,530 --> 01:03:17,820 Yeah. Like I think that the what you'll pay to rent Bitcoin for 1019 01:03:17,820 --> 01:03:21,030 channels will also go down over time. Competition, 1020 01:03:22,380 --> 01:03:27,690 which will consolidate? Yeah. Evan Hammond, much of that lnd 1021 01:03:27,750 --> 01:03:30,690 development? Are you responsible for you? Are you doing pull 1022 01:03:30,690 --> 01:03:33,240 requests directly on the l&d code base at all? 1023 01:03:33,990 --> 01:03:37,380 No, we are just using it basically. I mean, there's so 1024 01:03:37,380 --> 01:03:41,940 many other things to build on our side. But we do talk to them 1025 01:03:42,210 --> 01:03:46,020 pretty often and just hear what's coming. And they can get 1026 01:03:46,020 --> 01:03:47,100 feedback from us. 1027 01:03:47,790 --> 01:03:52,650 Which roast beef. And Ryan, you helped suggest the multi tenant 1028 01:03:52,650 --> 01:03:55,650 solution which we had been hemming and hawing about for a 1029 01:03:55,650 --> 01:03:59,670 while, but they just put the pieces together in such a nice 1030 01:03:59,670 --> 01:04:04,950 way that beautiful what was it six weeks ago or something maybe 1031 01:04:04,950 --> 01:04:06,750 eight weeks ago that we have this? 1032 01:04:06,780 --> 01:04:09,780 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's there's, there's plenty of 1033 01:04:10,170 --> 01:04:13,620 sorry, interrupted. There's plenty of systems that 1034 01:04:13,620 --> 01:04:18,960 basically, you know, send the user ID in the TLV of a 1035 01:04:19,650 --> 01:04:23,970 lightning transaction. Like that. I mean, there's a bunch of 1036 01:04:23,970 --> 01:04:27,150 other projects out there that do that, but every transaction is 1037 01:04:27,150 --> 01:04:31,680 still going to the same pub key. Right? So what we really wanted 1038 01:04:31,680 --> 01:04:36,330 is the ability to, to start in multi tenant mode and move off. 1039 01:04:36,810 --> 01:04:40,380 Right? So we're really basically it's based on the routing hand 1040 01:04:40,380 --> 01:04:44,580 and the Private Channel concept. So you have a real, you have a 1041 01:04:44,580 --> 01:04:48,690 real key pair from the beginning. So you can move off 1042 01:04:48,690 --> 01:04:51,450 at any time and there's not any. I mean, you don't have to tell 1043 01:04:51,450 --> 01:04:54,090 all your friends, okay, my pump keeps changing, or whatever, you 1044 01:04:54,090 --> 01:04:54,840 can just take that 1045 01:04:54,870 --> 01:04:58,140 perfect, but you could be kicked off right so we want to make 1046 01:04:58,140 --> 01:05:01,530 sure everyone knows this is not But most sovereign way to do it 1047 01:05:01,530 --> 01:05:04,230 right? Doing it from your house or doing it on your own is 1048 01:05:04,230 --> 01:05:08,280 always going to be better. So, but not everyone's ready to go 1049 01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:11,730 spend 200 bucks on hardware, put it together and wrecked do all 1050 01:05:11,730 --> 01:05:15,870 that deal with just. And then if you get a taste of it, then you 1051 01:05:15,870 --> 01:05:16,440 can move on. 1052 01:05:16,710 --> 01:05:19,050 Paul, I want to be sensitive your time do you have to go? 1053 01:05:19,080 --> 01:05:20,460 Because I have a couple more questions for me. 1054 01:05:20,460 --> 01:05:25,620 I just got a phone call. So I'm I've got five more minutes. But 1055 01:05:25,680 --> 01:05:30,090 I wanted to ask Evan, because we have an entire namespace with a 1056 01:05:30,090 --> 01:05:34,260 whole bunch of features. I know you guys are busy. Do you see 1057 01:05:34,260 --> 01:05:37,620 those being integrated anytime soon into the podcast part of 1058 01:05:37,650 --> 01:05:40,200 Sphinx chat? Oh, yes, we 1059 01:05:40,200 --> 01:05:43,200 are. We're getting back to the podcast stuff here. We basically 1060 01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:47,970 heads down on this route enhanced admin and multi tenant 1061 01:05:47,970 --> 01:05:52,740 stuff. But I mean, just to go back to like, the whole multi 1062 01:05:52,740 --> 01:05:58,110 modal thing that is the Bitcoin ecosystem. I love to see that 1063 01:05:58,110 --> 01:06:00,750 there's other apps, you know, like breeze, integrating 1064 01:06:00,750 --> 01:06:06,360 podcasts, and doing similar things. And I think, I mean, 1065 01:06:06,360 --> 01:06:09,210 we've always talked about Sphinx sort of being like, the Pro 1066 01:06:09,210 --> 01:06:13,680 Tools for this for the podcasters themselves, right? So 1067 01:06:13,710 --> 01:06:18,060 yeah, we're definitely gonna build in actually hosting your 1068 01:06:18,120 --> 01:06:22,170 podcast files on on the meme server. Oh, whoa, 1069 01:06:22,170 --> 01:06:27,750 whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, stop young man. Do tell 1070 01:06:27,780 --> 01:06:29,490 what this is interesting. 1071 01:06:30,510 --> 01:06:33,690 I mean, we want to make it completely basically self 1072 01:06:33,690 --> 01:06:36,780 sovereign that way, wow, it's great that you can link out to 1073 01:06:36,780 --> 01:06:43,470 these other systems. But what would be even better is hosting 1074 01:06:43,470 --> 01:06:47,550 your files yourself on your Sphinx node, and actually 1075 01:06:47,550 --> 01:06:54,840 authenticating the access to those files, using using keys 1076 01:06:54,840 --> 01:06:58,980 that would be sent as lightning transactions. So we already do 1077 01:06:58,980 --> 01:07:03,330 that for means like, if you buy an image on Sphinx, that's a 1078 01:07:03,330 --> 01:07:07,380 file, but you can't decrypt it until you have the key for it 1079 01:07:07,380 --> 01:07:07,950 basically, is 1080 01:07:07,950 --> 01:07:09,480 that l set how you do that? 1081 01:07:11,370 --> 01:07:15,480 Is not we started to build our own thing and called the L that 1082 01:07:19,230 --> 01:07:22,350 I can see that B, I could see that being an immediate solution 1083 01:07:22,350 --> 01:07:25,980 for true private member only feeds Yeah, 1084 01:07:26,070 --> 01:07:27,390 goodbye, Patreon. 1085 01:07:28,050 --> 01:07:29,160 Yeah, right. Exactly. Right. 1086 01:07:30,210 --> 01:07:33,720 Wow, very, and then being able to see all the stats, you know, 1087 01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:36,180 who's listening or not even who's listening, but like, when 1088 01:07:36,180 --> 01:07:39,390 are people listening? When are we Yeah, this is this is a 1089 01:07:39,810 --> 01:07:42,660 podcasters don't even know what's going to hit him. And it 1090 01:07:42,660 --> 01:07:45,270 doesn't even exclude advertisers. Actually, it makes 1091 01:07:45,270 --> 01:07:48,930 it much better if you want to provide statistics for for what 1092 01:07:48,930 --> 01:07:51,690 you're doing. And we'll have, you know, listening statistics, 1093 01:07:51,690 --> 01:07:56,490 which is just a complete upgrade from any other interactive 1094 01:07:56,490 --> 01:07:59,760 agency bureau certification mumbo jumbo, this is going to be 1095 01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:03,930 the real deal is great. And so now, of course, as someone 1096 01:08:03,930 --> 01:08:07,980 hosting files on their own node, you know, that brings a whole I 1097 01:08:07,980 --> 01:08:11,640 mean, hosting of podcast brings all bunch of shit along with it. 1098 01:08:12,750 --> 01:08:15,150 Which will be interesting to see how that scales for people who 1099 01:08:15,150 --> 01:08:16,650 are doing that all self hosted. 1100 01:08:17,400 --> 01:08:21,510 Right, but you can also, for example, use our meme server 1101 01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:25,740 node. And when pay for it, we don't we don't charge anything 1102 01:08:25,740 --> 01:08:31,290 for it now, but we could charge a millionth of a cent. And so 1103 01:08:31,290 --> 01:08:33,720 it's like, you know, the infrastructure can be 1104 01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:37,890 centralized. But the the incentives are decentralized, 1105 01:08:37,920 --> 01:08:40,800 because you're just paying a millionth of a standard to 1106 01:08:40,800 --> 01:08:45,630 access this file. I mean, it can all just sort of be more fair. 1107 01:08:45,660 --> 01:08:49,050 You just got you just got the attention of several guys. I 1108 01:08:49,050 --> 01:08:49,410 know. 1109 01:08:50,460 --> 01:08:55,380 Nice. Well, yeah. You know what? I listened to your guyses last 1110 01:08:55,380 --> 01:09:00,270 week, episode last night. Yeah. And I liked what you're saying 1111 01:09:00,270 --> 01:09:06,240 about. I mean, I, I always sort of hated advertising. But it was 1112 01:09:06,240 --> 01:09:08,850 an interesting part where you're saying, you know, advertising 1113 01:09:08,880 --> 01:09:13,320 isn't really the problem. Like it's not necessarily the worst 1114 01:09:13,320 --> 01:09:16,470 thing in the world to put out there. Like, hey, I've got this 1115 01:09:16,470 --> 01:09:19,710 cool thing. Check it out to my to your friends and show. Sure. 1116 01:09:19,770 --> 01:09:22,290 The negative part is the machine that's behind it. Right. The 1117 01:09:22,290 --> 01:09:28,290 algos? Yes, that are profit driven. Yeah. So by creating 1118 01:09:28,320 --> 01:09:33,540 basically balanced incentives, we don't need these algorithms. 1119 01:09:33,720 --> 01:09:35,130 Right. Exactly. 1120 01:09:35,220 --> 01:09:39,600 Exactly. Holy crap. That's big. That's very, very big. And I 1121 01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:44,160 think the the part that, that really hits home is the idea of 1122 01:09:44,910 --> 01:09:48,870 quickly authenticated access based upon a payment. You know, 1123 01:09:48,870 --> 01:09:54,750 certainly for private feeds. It can negate the whole but negate 1124 01:09:54,750 --> 01:09:57,900 its you just blow up. The Patreon model is just exploded. 1125 01:09:57,900 --> 01:10:02,580 It's gone. It's gone. Yep. And people who are willing to 1126 01:10:02,580 --> 01:10:05,280 credit card number and you know why you have your email in there 1127 01:10:05,280 --> 01:10:08,430 at all? Right? You don't even need to know necessarily who 1128 01:10:08,430 --> 01:10:11,190 these people are, you know, the 1000 people are enjoying your 1129 01:10:11,190 --> 01:10:12,300 podcast. That's great. 1130 01:10:12,480 --> 01:10:15,360 Yeah, the way I've always looked at the value for value model is 1131 01:10:15,360 --> 01:10:18,210 can I pay my rent this month? Okay, I've got enough listeners. 1132 01:10:18,240 --> 01:10:21,900 That's what it is. It literally comes down to that, Paul, if you 1133 01:10:21,900 --> 01:10:24,180 want any parting words, because I know it's your son's birthday. 1134 01:10:24,180 --> 01:10:24,570 So I want to 1135 01:10:24,570 --> 01:10:28,920 let you go, No, I think you're in good hands. So just 1136 01:10:28,920 --> 01:10:32,730 appreciate the work you guys are doing and open it up to any 1137 01:10:32,730 --> 01:10:35,670 podcasters who want to do this. But we're going to we're going 1138 01:10:35,670 --> 01:10:40,020 to literally when we pushed it today, we'll have the podcast or 1139 01:10:40,020 --> 01:10:44,130 wallet integration that Dave did. And we have it down, we 1140 01:10:44,130 --> 01:10:49,080 timed it to about 40 seconds. So it grabs your podcast, index ID 1141 01:10:49,080 --> 01:10:52,890 number. And we can do this with you, we can give you an invite 1142 01:10:52,890 --> 01:10:56,040 with that ID number. And it takes about 40 seconds, you 1143 01:10:56,040 --> 01:10:58,530 download the app from the App Store, we're out on the app 1144 01:10:58,530 --> 01:11:04,080 store right now Google Play, or the APK. Yes, and, and then you 1145 01:11:05,280 --> 01:11:08,790 you scan that specific invite code. And then while you're 1146 01:11:08,790 --> 01:11:11,850 entering your name and setting up things chat, it actually 1147 01:11:11,850 --> 01:11:15,900 creates the tribe with the artwork, the name, the RSS feed, 1148 01:11:15,900 --> 01:11:19,320 everything pulling from podcast index. And then by the time you 1149 01:11:19,320 --> 01:11:23,610 open the dashboard, your tribe that you own for your podcast is 1150 01:11:23,610 --> 01:11:27,090 set up and waiting for you in your dashboard. When you open 1151 01:11:27,090 --> 01:11:31,680 the app and you're ready to go day then with the virtual nodes, 1152 01:11:31,680 --> 01:11:36,660 we can likewise you can scan a QR code that will your listeners 1153 01:11:36,660 --> 01:11:40,860 will auto join your tribe. And so you when they open the app, 1154 01:11:40,890 --> 01:11:43,830 they are in the tribe that they intended to be in in the first 1155 01:11:43,830 --> 01:11:46,770 place just to listen to your podcast, beautiful dance. So 1156 01:11:46,800 --> 01:11:47,040 just 1157 01:11:47,340 --> 01:11:48,900 take the friction points out. Dave, is 1158 01:11:48,900 --> 01:11:51,000 this working in the end from podcaster? wallet? 1159 01:11:51,780 --> 01:11:54,360 Yeah, yeah, I mean, this, this is basically just the thing that 1160 01:11:54,360 --> 01:11:57,300 we you know, this is the same thing we set up what a while 1161 01:11:57,300 --> 01:12:00,540 back, it just works. Yeah. But now the 1162 01:12:00,540 --> 01:12:04,650 different nodes, we can, we can now say hey, with every 1163 01:12:04,650 --> 01:12:10,710 podcaster, who sets up we will give you 20 invites day one. So 1164 01:12:10,710 --> 01:12:15,990 invite your 20 closest people. And then we can even give 1165 01:12:15,990 --> 01:12:19,200 invites every day, every week, people can give them away on 1166 01:12:19,200 --> 01:12:22,680 their podcast or on Twitter. It's not spinning up a note on 1167 01:12:22,680 --> 01:12:23,610 the channel every time. 1168 01:12:23,760 --> 01:12:27,810 Alright, so when I download the apk, after the show today, I can 1169 01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:31,320 publish a QR code that people can scan with the app from the 1170 01:12:31,320 --> 01:12:32,460 new app from the App Store. 1171 01:12:33,300 --> 01:12:36,270 Because you haven't I just described the new podcaster 1172 01:12:36,330 --> 01:12:40,890 experience that you you already have. So you'll get legacy 1173 01:12:40,890 --> 01:12:44,130 deals, you'll get a QR code, you don't get to do that fun setup 1174 01:12:44,130 --> 01:12:49,830 process to tribe, but you can get will give you a QR code 1175 01:12:49,830 --> 01:12:52,260 that's specific to your tribe. And I find people 1176 01:12:52,770 --> 01:12:56,130 in the new app. That's it. Well, that's 1177 01:12:56,190 --> 01:12:59,130 Yeah, that part's been there. What's been the tough part is 1178 01:12:59,610 --> 01:13:02,610 how do you give everybody knows that wants to node right? So 1179 01:13:02,610 --> 01:13:04,860 yeah, so good to have that problem finally solved. 1180 01:13:06,120 --> 01:13:07,410 for y'all, too. Yeah, 1181 01:13:07,470 --> 01:13:10,290 yeah. And it's about three hours old. So take that with a grain 1182 01:13:10,290 --> 01:13:13,890 of salt. There will be pain. There will be pain, though, 1183 01:13:13,890 --> 01:13:14,280 Paul, 1184 01:13:14,940 --> 01:13:18,270 Dave and I feel a little bit responsible for this necessary 1185 01:13:18,300 --> 01:13:21,570 upgrade. But we feel that we did come in and break you a little 1186 01:13:21,570 --> 01:13:26,580 bit just with the with well really flowing channels. 1187 01:13:27,450 --> 01:13:29,010 But I want to build on. 1188 01:13:30,720 --> 01:13:34,950 You know, I've offered several times. I want to thank you 1189 01:13:34,950 --> 01:13:39,660 personally, because you've been such a motivating powerful force 1190 01:13:39,660 --> 01:13:43,410 in this entire value for value model, you have given me 1191 01:13:43,410 --> 01:13:47,610 incredible insight. And Dave's well of course, your philosophy, 1192 01:13:47,640 --> 01:13:50,760 everything about you, which carries through the organization 1193 01:13:50,760 --> 01:13:54,780 has just been fucking delightful. It's it's amazing to 1194 01:13:54,780 --> 01:14:01,200 work with another organization. without, you know, without any 1195 01:14:01,920 --> 01:14:05,310 true business relationship. We've signed no contracts, you 1196 01:14:05,310 --> 01:14:08,610 know, we're all kind of on the same page. It's inherent to 1197 01:14:08,610 --> 01:14:12,360 Bitcoin that that's not necessarily needed anymore, but 1198 01:14:12,600 --> 01:14:15,930 just really, man, you have a vision and I congratulate you on 1199 01:14:15,930 --> 01:14:18,960 everything you've gotten done so far. And I look forward to 1200 01:14:19,590 --> 01:14:22,680 working with you and the entire team there for a long time on 1201 01:14:22,680 --> 01:14:23,070 this. 1202 01:14:24,540 --> 01:14:28,440 Thanks so much. It really does mean a ton and is you know, as 1203 01:14:28,440 --> 01:14:33,870 well as I do with Evan and the team behind you. Just appreciate 1204 01:14:33,870 --> 01:14:36,990 these guys for what they do. I mean, it's it's amazing. stop 1205 01:14:37,200 --> 01:14:39,960 believing and we're gonna blow people away with stuff to come. 1206 01:14:39,990 --> 01:14:40,560 Yeah, we're 1207 01:14:40,560 --> 01:14:44,280 going to really suck up to Evan once you're gone, so don't worry 1208 01:14:44,280 --> 01:14:44,460 about 1209 01:14:46,050 --> 01:14:49,260 Excellent. Well, just tell me what you guys decide to do. 1210 01:14:51,030 --> 01:14:52,410 Alright, well, happy birthday. 1211 01:14:52,680 --> 01:14:53,700 Your Sunday. All right, man. 1212 01:14:53,730 --> 01:14:55,410 Thank you. Bye Bye. Thanks. Bye, Paul. 1213 01:14:56,250 --> 01:14:59,520 Evan, question for you just because I can't can't help not 1214 01:14:59,520 --> 01:15:03,630 asking you As I grew up in the Netherlands and although it 1215 01:15:03,630 --> 01:15:08,850 would be spelled with a V feenstra is that from those 1216 01:15:08,850 --> 01:15:09,690 parts of the woods? 1217 01:15:09,780 --> 01:15:15,690 Yeah, it's freezin. So, free Islam Baba. Exactly. I wish I 1218 01:15:15,690 --> 01:15:21,480 knew any Dutch, but my grandma does speak free priests. And my 1219 01:15:21,480 --> 01:15:24,240 dad speaks Dutch she kind of has an accent. 1220 01:15:24,690 --> 01:15:29,310 Oh, okay. But you were born in the US? Yes. All right. 1221 01:15:29,370 --> 01:15:32,760 Interesting. Yeah, saints that is normally it's vive and 1222 01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:37,560 Friesian is almost like Welsh, it's a it's a dilates like Welsh 1223 01:15:37,560 --> 01:15:40,380 and Friesian. I think they can understand each other. It's 1224 01:15:40,380 --> 01:15:43,080 like, it's like the sect of people that have thought these 1225 01:15:43,080 --> 01:15:46,170 little spots in the world where they have their own cool little 1226 01:15:46,170 --> 01:15:46,800 language. 1227 01:15:47,370 --> 01:15:50,370 Answer got a super interesting history. They like they never 1228 01:15:50,370 --> 01:15:54,120 had a feudal type system. Yes. Right. With lords and serfs and 1229 01:15:54,120 --> 01:15:56,250 stuff. They all just got together. Yep. 1230 01:15:57,060 --> 01:16:00,210 So you're free is your freedom of association here a bit a bit 1231 01:16:00,210 --> 01:16:00,960 corny pointer? 1232 01:16:02,370 --> 01:16:07,140 Exactly, exactly as a lot of the same, you know, philosophy, like 1233 01:16:07,140 --> 01:16:10,650 just come together when we need to. But other than that, we're 1234 01:16:10,650 --> 01:16:17,040 all individuals and kind of like the family. Very cool unit is 1235 01:16:17,040 --> 01:16:18,450 the core of the culture. So 1236 01:16:18,870 --> 01:16:23,010 how did you come to think so? I mean, I guess that's not the 1237 01:16:23,010 --> 01:16:26,700 question want to ask, I guess the question want to ask is, how 1238 01:16:26,700 --> 01:16:30,720 do you how did you get into the development position? You are 1239 01:16:30,720 --> 01:16:34,980 like, what, what is your development timeline look like? 1240 01:16:36,270 --> 01:16:41,700 Well, it's the long and circuitous. I had to tell you 1241 01:16:41,700 --> 01:16:45,780 the truth, I sort of grew up something of a Luddite. I mean, 1242 01:16:45,780 --> 01:16:49,740 I was like the last of my friends to get a smartphone. And 1243 01:16:50,550 --> 01:16:54,360 I only signed up for Twitter last year, like, I have never 1244 01:16:54,360 --> 01:17:01,560 really been a big Facebook user. But when was it was 2010, I 1245 01:17:01,560 --> 01:17:06,480 decided to travel a bunch and I spent eight months in Nepal, 1246 01:17:06,630 --> 01:17:11,910 teaching English. Wow. And awesome experience. But 1247 01:17:12,810 --> 01:17:17,130 surprisingly, the biggest thing that really hit me was how 1248 01:17:17,130 --> 01:17:21,780 technology was completely transforming people's lives. 1249 01:17:22,260 --> 01:17:25,770 Like they would, they would take their cell phones and climb to 1250 01:17:25,770 --> 01:17:30,900 the top of the hill and give each other missed calls. Like, 1251 01:17:31,200 --> 01:17:34,560 yeah, like and not not pick it up. And they would make 1252 01:17:34,560 --> 01:17:37,410 agreements, okay, to miss calls, means the three missed calls 1253 01:17:37,410 --> 01:17:40,920 means that, so they wouldn't have to pay the service 1254 01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:45,390 provider. Wow. Literally, that is Morse code of missed call 1255 01:17:45,390 --> 01:17:49,710 system. And that would save them, you know, 12 hours needing 1256 01:17:49,710 --> 01:17:53,790 to walk to the next village and back. So it just sort of blew my 1257 01:17:53,790 --> 01:18:00,360 mind, even the most decrepit and old crappy technology is such an 1258 01:18:00,360 --> 01:18:07,200 amazing improvement. from, from not that, and I mean, growing up 1259 01:18:07,200 --> 01:18:09,780 where everyone is digital, native, everyone's on the 1260 01:18:09,780 --> 01:18:14,130 internet, you know, I sort of took it all for granted. But 1261 01:18:14,130 --> 01:18:19,170 that kind of opened my eyes to, to the internet and how awesome 1262 01:18:19,170 --> 01:18:24,090 it is. So when I came back from that trip, I actually started a 1263 01:18:24,090 --> 01:18:29,610 Nepalese food card with my friend from Nepal. And, and we, 1264 01:18:29,640 --> 01:18:33,270 I made a WordPress site. That was my first coding experience. 1265 01:18:33,270 --> 01:18:39,480 I was like 2012 and went down the WordPress, rabbit hole for a 1266 01:18:39,480 --> 01:18:43,140 few years making like websites for small businesses and stuff. 1267 01:18:44,430 --> 01:18:47,970 And eventually got into JavaScript got into web 1268 01:18:47,970 --> 01:18:53,010 development. And yeah, just totally became addicted to 1269 01:18:53,010 --> 01:18:53,430 coding. 1270 01:18:54,660 --> 01:18:56,610 what language you spend most your time in now as a 1271 01:18:56,610 --> 01:18:57,240 JavaScript? 1272 01:18:58,560 --> 01:19:01,890 Java, I mean, it's all TypeScript. But yeah, JavaScript 1273 01:19:01,890 --> 01:19:06,090 is TypeScript. Same same. But a lot of our stuff is built in go, 1274 01:19:06,450 --> 01:19:11,100 like the drive and the meme stuff. So I really like go for 1275 01:19:11,100 --> 01:19:16,110 back end development. Okay, and I'm learning rust. 1276 01:19:16,170 --> 01:19:18,960 That's a really cool language. Is that something but I'm gonna 1277 01:19:18,960 --> 01:19:21,120 use that Spanx? Or is that something you're just doing as a 1278 01:19:21,120 --> 01:19:21,840 side project? 1279 01:19:22,500 --> 01:19:28,740 I mean, it would be great to to have kind of like something of a 1280 01:19:28,740 --> 01:19:34,500 dream but sort of wrapping up relay as this rust lightning 1281 01:19:34,830 --> 01:19:37,350 thing that would make it much much more efficient and be able 1282 01:19:37,350 --> 01:19:41,700 to run not on a 520 dollar Raspberry Pi but on like a five 1283 01:19:41,700 --> 01:19:45,150 cent you know, yeah, thing the size of a nickel 1284 01:19:45,570 --> 01:19:47,730 like that to get get it down to bare metal. 1285 01:19:47,789 --> 01:19:50,669 Yeah, right. Like it's probably not quite possible yet, but one 1286 01:19:50,669 --> 01:19:56,039 day, it will be so yeah, I'm trying to remember how I got 1287 01:19:56,039 --> 01:20:02,189 into bitcoin. My friend in 2016 got me into it. And I definitely 1288 01:20:02,189 --> 01:20:07,769 saw the potential for, for like, Okay, this could possibly be a 1289 01:20:07,769 --> 01:20:13,799 whole new global financial system. But until micro payments 1290 01:20:13,799 --> 01:20:16,979 and lightning came around, I didn't really see how it could 1291 01:20:16,979 --> 01:20:19,559 be used by regular people 1292 01:20:20,040 --> 01:20:22,590 will probably could I mean until lightning came around, it really 1293 01:20:22,590 --> 01:20:23,940 couldn't that much I 1294 01:20:23,940 --> 01:20:27,780 mean, right, like you can buy it and hold it cool, like a hedge 1295 01:20:27,930 --> 01:20:31,470 against inflation or whatever. But it's not necessarily 1296 01:20:31,470 --> 01:20:33,660 something that's going to help change the world like the 1297 01:20:33,660 --> 01:20:37,620 internet in general did. But micro payments, I do feel like 1298 01:20:37,620 --> 01:20:42,720 Like I said earlier, it totally changes the system, because you 1299 01:20:42,720 --> 01:20:46,770 just don't need to keep a persistent record of who is 1300 01:20:46,770 --> 01:20:50,190 interacting with your service online. If you're streaming 1301 01:20:50,190 --> 01:20:54,270 value one way, and whatever service you're providing the 1302 01:20:54,270 --> 01:20:58,890 other way. And I mean, if the if the customer stopped streaming 1303 01:20:58,890 --> 01:21:03,780 stats, you stopped streaming yard side. So you just don't 1304 01:21:03,780 --> 01:21:05,490 need that credit card number. 1305 01:21:05,910 --> 01:21:10,590 How does? Let me this may have been a poll question, but just 1306 01:21:10,590 --> 01:21:13,440 thinks it do you think things will ever do any sort of 1307 01:21:13,470 --> 01:21:16,200 onboarding from Fiat? Or is that something you'll just want to 1308 01:21:16,200 --> 01:21:17,280 avoid altogether? 1309 01:21:18,690 --> 01:21:22,350 Yeah, I mean, I, we do have a little button in there to add 1310 01:21:22,350 --> 01:21:23,970 from cash app. So 1311 01:21:24,600 --> 01:21:26,340 I didn't know that. I don't see that. 1312 01:21:26,730 --> 01:21:31,500 That's basically how we do it. It works all the time. Yeah. 1313 01:21:31,770 --> 01:21:32,010 Well, the 1314 01:21:32,010 --> 01:21:36,870 reason I asked is because like, currently, my flow to get to get 1315 01:21:36,870 --> 01:21:40,230 funds and to get lightning into my Sphinx app, or anywhere 1316 01:21:40,230 --> 01:21:46,860 really, is I go strike through a debit card, and then send that 1317 01:21:47,100 --> 01:21:50,760 send that money to wherever I want it. And so that is like 1318 01:21:50,790 --> 01:21:54,870 basically zero fees. And it gets me my lightning without having 1319 01:21:54,870 --> 01:21:58,110 to go through any Bitcoin steps at all. But the problem is 1320 01:21:58,110 --> 01:22:01,050 outside of the US, you know, strikes not really available 1321 01:22:02,790 --> 01:22:06,930 everywhere, so that, you know, there is for people we ran into 1322 01:22:06,930 --> 01:22:10,500 this with with Martin from pod friend, for example, he was 1323 01:22:10,500 --> 01:22:14,010 trying to get some will. And I think we ran this with a dilemma 1324 01:22:14,010 --> 01:22:16,650 to you know, just even test their apps, they were like, 1325 01:22:16,650 --> 01:22:19,890 Whoa, I mean, I got onboard somewhere. And so we ended up 1326 01:22:19,890 --> 01:22:22,800 sending them some lightning, just do 20 bucks with the 1327 01:22:22,800 --> 01:22:26,610 lightning just to get them go. And, and you know that while the 1328 01:22:26,610 --> 01:22:30,570 onboarding problem i think is being solved. I just wonder how 1329 01:22:30,600 --> 01:22:34,860 deep y'all were going? What y'all his plans were around that 1330 01:22:34,860 --> 01:22:37,350 if y'all ever plan to get into that game, or if you're just 1331 01:22:37,350 --> 01:22:39,570 gonna be like, Man, that we don't want to do that. 1332 01:22:40,560 --> 01:22:45,570 Yeah, I know. It's a little stressful to, for Paul to think 1333 01:22:45,570 --> 01:22:49,740 about, well, like, Are we going to be a banking? Right? Yeah. I 1334 01:22:49,740 --> 01:22:53,100 mean, like, is this make as if we're onboarding Fiat? Does that 1335 01:22:53,100 --> 01:22:57,450 make us like a money transfer company or whatever? So? I don't 1336 01:22:57,480 --> 01:23:01,080 we're not working on that yet. At this point. Yeah. But I think 1337 01:23:01,080 --> 01:23:05,850 it is talking to different legal advice, just to see what that 1338 01:23:05,850 --> 01:23:06,630 would imply. 1339 01:23:07,230 --> 01:23:09,840 It's a big step. I mean, cuz then you get a gig and all the 1340 01:23:09,840 --> 01:23:12,750 regulations, all the KYC stuff. Yeah, it's right. It's big. It's 1341 01:23:12,750 --> 01:23:15,120 a big deal. It's not something to be taken lightly at all. 1342 01:23:15,600 --> 01:23:18,750 And of course, the limit is like, whatever it is, it's in, 1343 01:23:18,840 --> 01:23:23,220 it's in dollars. So yeah, if we're doing like 5000 sets, like 1344 01:23:23,220 --> 01:23:26,130 maybe that's under the limit today, but who knows what it is, 1345 01:23:26,430 --> 01:23:27,270 tomorrow. So 1346 01:23:27,930 --> 01:23:30,930 and that's, to me, that's the genius of strike is they they're 1347 01:23:30,930 --> 01:23:34,110 like avoiding the whole conversion thing. You get it in 1348 01:23:34,110 --> 01:23:37,470 there. And it's, it's, you're moving lightning, but it's all 1349 01:23:37,470 --> 01:23:42,840 denominated in currency. So you're not really, you're 1350 01:23:42,840 --> 01:23:47,850 avoiding that conversion step. Until you send it out. And then 1351 01:23:48,090 --> 01:23:51,870 it's, it's, it's fairly genius, the way the way that it because 1352 01:23:51,870 --> 01:23:56,100 you never see how many sets you have in strike. It's always, 1353 01:23:56,460 --> 01:23:57,480 it's always be. 1354 01:23:59,580 --> 01:24:03,360 And it fluctuates, or they just know, as soon as you send it 1355 01:24:03,360 --> 01:24:04,980 out, it's fine. But then at that, 1356 01:24:05,460 --> 01:24:09,330 if you buy 20, if you buy $20, if you put $20 into your strike 1357 01:24:09,330 --> 01:24:13,260 wallet, it shows up as 20 US dollars forever, no matter what 1358 01:24:13,260 --> 01:24:16,200 Bitcoin does underneath. And so they really are only using 1359 01:24:16,200 --> 01:24:17,850 lightning as a transport mechanism. 1360 01:24:18,930 --> 01:24:19,530 And yeah, 1361 01:24:21,150 --> 01:24:25,230 yeah, it avoids having to do those conversion swaps, which 1362 01:24:25,380 --> 01:24:28,380 brings in a whole another host of regulations. But then if I 1363 01:24:28,380 --> 01:24:32,880 send it to a to a lightning app, it comes in as lightning. Yeah, 1364 01:24:32,880 --> 01:24:35,130 it's beautiful. Yeah, I 1365 01:24:35,130 --> 01:24:40,170 mean, we've always been on the train of like, it's the new 1366 01:24:40,170 --> 01:24:43,860 standard, that make everyone think in terms of sets, but who 1367 01:24:43,860 --> 01:24:45,720 knows if that is ever gonna happen. 1368 01:24:46,950 --> 01:24:51,090 Well, I mean, I think in SATs more and more, it's been, you 1369 01:24:51,090 --> 01:24:55,410 know, good nine months to a year. And there's a lot of 1370 01:24:55,500 --> 01:24:58,350 places where my brain just starts to make the connection. 1371 01:24:58,740 --> 01:25:02,220 So it does grow on you, but Also in I'm used to euros and you 1372 01:25:02,220 --> 01:25:07,530 know, and dealing with that often. And these cookbooks in 1373 01:25:07,530 --> 01:25:12,450 Australia and Canada navia, which are, you know, to like, 1374 01:25:12,720 --> 01:25:16,320 one one Canadian dollars, like three cents us. 1375 01:25:18,180 --> 01:25:19,620 For j for James gray 1376 01:25:19,620 --> 01:25:21,150 really, really? 1377 01:25:21,420 --> 01:25:25,560 Well, Evan, this is a really Congratulations, man on on all 1378 01:25:25,560 --> 01:25:29,610 this work and, and in because you know, I know a lot of the 1379 01:25:29,610 --> 01:25:32,550 developer goes into this and the love shows, man. 1380 01:25:33,539 --> 01:25:38,579 Yeah, it's been it's been a wild ride, honestly. And it has been 1381 01:25:38,579 --> 01:25:41,909 great working with Paul. I mean, he's, he's definitely involved 1382 01:25:42,089 --> 01:25:46,289 all the time. But he's also just sort of like, do what you're 1383 01:25:46,289 --> 01:25:50,009 gonna do. You know, are you gonna use l SATs? And I was 1384 01:25:50,009 --> 01:25:54,509 like, I don't know, I'm probably just build my own thing that 1385 01:25:54,509 --> 01:25:57,389 I'm, which of course, it's good to standardize. It's good to 1386 01:25:57,389 --> 01:26:00,779 have standards. But I'm sure you've seen the cartoon where 1387 01:26:00,779 --> 01:26:03,839 there's like 10 competing standards, and then they create 1388 01:26:03,839 --> 01:26:06,149 the one standard to rule them all. And now there's 11 1389 01:26:06,149 --> 01:26:06,539 competing. 1390 01:26:08,370 --> 01:26:10,920 Oh, believe me, that one's cut. That cartoon has been posted on 1391 01:26:10,920 --> 01:26:12,390 the namespace and the namespace. 1392 01:26:14,610 --> 01:26:16,680 For sure, yeah. I've 1393 01:26:16,680 --> 01:26:18,990 always been like, let's build it, you know, whatever, 1394 01:26:19,020 --> 01:26:23,040 whatever. headaches. I mean, outside is awesome. But it was a 1395 01:26:23,040 --> 01:26:27,750 little bit pre peace end. And you don't necessarily need, 1396 01:26:27,900 --> 01:26:31,620 right, some of the those. I don't know what to do with the 1397 01:26:31,620 --> 01:26:34,350 keys and you can do things just directly. So 1398 01:26:35,490 --> 01:26:38,580 what do you ever do you want to stick around and listen in for 1399 01:26:38,580 --> 01:26:41,640 the donation segment? And we can you can kind of listen to how 1400 01:26:41,640 --> 01:26:44,010 many people are involved in this whole thing? 1401 01:26:44,910 --> 01:26:47,700 Sure. Yeah. I'll just be on in the background here. 1402 01:26:48,090 --> 01:26:51,630 This is a value for value production, not just this 1403 01:26:51,630 --> 01:26:56,400 podcast, but podcast index.org, the the gathering the watering 1404 01:26:56,400 --> 01:27:00,900 hole at podcast index dot social, the GitHub, all of that 1405 01:27:00,900 --> 01:27:05,280 is part of podcasting. 2.0 we are upgrading podcasting and the 1406 01:27:05,280 --> 01:27:09,300 value for value is very simple. If you're listening to this, if 1407 01:27:09,300 --> 01:27:12,420 you see any value you get out of the project, if you want to 1408 01:27:12,420 --> 01:27:15,210 contribute, and we always looking for the three T's your 1409 01:27:15,210 --> 01:27:18,090 time, your talent, your treasure, we got a lot of people 1410 01:27:18,090 --> 01:27:21,990 contributing a crapload of time and talent, Evan included. For 1411 01:27:21,990 --> 01:27:25,470 those who want to sponsor us and support us financially. We make 1412 01:27:25,470 --> 01:27:29,730 that possible. A couple of ways podcast index.org big yellow 1413 01:27:29,730 --> 01:27:32,640 Donate button down at the bottom. That page is also a 1414 01:27:32,640 --> 01:27:40,230 place to read red bread. I have too many shows that I do. You 1415 01:27:40,230 --> 01:27:44,250 can also get on a subscription payment schedule with your 1416 01:27:44,250 --> 01:27:47,730 lightning there. And if you're in one of the podcasting 2.0 1417 01:27:47,730 --> 01:27:51,660 certified apps, you'll see a Donate button pop up and Dave, 1418 01:27:51,780 --> 01:27:56,040 what have we, we're kind of treasure have we received this 1419 01:27:56,040 --> 01:27:56,460 week. 1420 01:27:57,300 --> 01:28:01,800 We get to we get to donors this week. One of them is Myron 1421 01:28:01,800 --> 01:28:09,060 Webber. He donated $66.78 I'm not sure what the Oh, here's his 1422 01:28:09,060 --> 01:28:12,510 message explains that he says here's a donation in the amount 1423 01:28:12,510 --> 01:28:18,000 of pat proprietary magic number. Monaco, I'm a co host of the 1424 01:28:18,000 --> 01:28:25,710 mental supermodels podcast explore Okay, so it gives the 1425 01:28:25,710 --> 01:28:31,260 website is mental supermodels calm. co host of mental 1426 01:28:31,260 --> 01:28:35,550 supermodels podcast exploring the theory and practice art and 1427 01:28:35,550 --> 01:28:38,760 science of mental modeling for problem solving and decision 1428 01:28:38,760 --> 01:28:41,880 making. Less expensive, less exciting than I thought it was. 1429 01:28:42,930 --> 01:28:47,670 I'm at the website already. Mental supermodels, 1430 01:28:47,999 --> 01:28:51,839 send pictures. I've discovered your awesome work. And I'm 1431 01:28:51,839 --> 01:28:54,569 trying to figure out how I can help with the time and talent. 1432 01:28:55,019 --> 01:28:58,709 Since this exhausts my treasure at the moment, is there a guide 1433 01:28:58,709 --> 01:29:02,219 for how to supercharge my plain old podcast to be 2.0 certified? 1434 01:29:02,879 --> 01:29:06,479 There is yes. I don't need a lodge put me in the right 1435 01:29:06,479 --> 01:29:09,029 direction. And I'll document it along the way to create a better 1436 01:29:09,029 --> 01:29:12,689 guide for the next folks down the trail. Well, Myron that's in 1437 01:29:12,689 --> 01:29:13,109 the works. 1438 01:29:13,140 --> 01:29:18,540 Yeah. But you can always go to new podcast apps calm and select 1439 01:29:18,540 --> 01:29:22,140 hosts. And there are a number of hosts who already already 1440 01:29:22,140 --> 01:29:27,300 provide a lot of the features of the of the podcast namespace. So 1441 01:29:27,300 --> 01:29:29,370 that would be that would be a you know, if you want that's you 1442 01:29:29,370 --> 01:29:33,060 can get started right away or migrate or there's a ton of 1443 01:29:33,060 --> 01:29:36,990 different places that can help you already today. Yeah, thank 1444 01:29:36,990 --> 01:29:38,370 you. Thank you for your support. 1445 01:29:40,590 --> 01:29:47,130 Christopher Tomkinson gave us $50 and Chris says go podcasting 1446 01:29:48,450 --> 01:29:53,040 and donated previously out of a pure love for podcasts in open 1447 01:29:53,040 --> 01:29:56,070 source, but this time I'm providing value for a different 1448 01:29:56,070 --> 01:29:59,970 reason. I soft launched my own new podcast on that stage. 1449 01:30:00,000 --> 01:30:03,780 proprietary fruit decks earlier this week was 1450 01:30:04,710 --> 01:30:06,780 proprietary what fruit decks 1451 01:30:06,930 --> 01:30:14,850 fruit decks FRUITDX Oh, Apple Apple podcast. Okay. Gabrielle 1452 01:30:14,850 --> 01:30:19,140 No, good. Okay, so soft launched my own new podcast on that 1453 01:30:19,140 --> 01:30:22,320 stupid proprietary fruit decks earlier this week. But this 1454 01:30:22,320 --> 01:30:25,470 morning I signed up for a podcast index.org API account 1455 01:30:25,470 --> 01:30:28,860 submitted the feed to make it officially live. All right, so I 1456 01:30:28,860 --> 01:30:32,010 felt the compulsion to provide some good old fashioned Thea in 1457 01:30:32,010 --> 01:30:34,350 return for services rendered keep rocking hard, and he gave 1458 01:30:34,350 --> 01:30:35,340 us $50 Thanks, 1459 01:30:35,340 --> 01:30:39,330 man. Can we still accept cut bucks no problem. 1460 01:30:39,810 --> 01:30:43,680 Oh, yeah, yeah, we're not ashamed that and I also wanted 1461 01:30:43,680 --> 01:30:47,490 to we have a lot of monthly donors who contribute small 1462 01:30:47,490 --> 01:30:49,110 amounts Yes. I never read them. 1463 01:30:49,110 --> 01:30:51,510 Did you do that could just you had the list there just run down 1464 01:30:51,510 --> 01:30:51,600 and 1465 01:30:51,600 --> 01:30:54,690 real quick. Yeah, and there is way more than I thought there 1466 01:30:54,690 --> 01:31:00,120 were Oh, wow. Yeah, so these are monthly donors who get a lot of 1467 01:31:00,120 --> 01:31:06,030 these are just $2 $3 $5 $1 and but there's a couple of that are 1468 01:31:06,030 --> 01:31:12,210 20 $50 we got Paul Saltzman, Keith Gibson, Chad Feroz, do 1469 01:31:12,210 --> 01:31:16,920 coats. Michael kimmerer. Leslie Martin. Jeff Miller, Chris 1470 01:31:16,920 --> 01:31:21,720 Cowan. Martin Morrison. Jeremy Cavanaugh. 1471 01:31:22,530 --> 01:31:26,400 Martin is donating pod Frank Martin. Wow, man. 1472 01:31:26,430 --> 01:31:29,190 Yeah, yeah. Okay. Mitch Downey from pod verse. 1473 01:31:30,900 --> 01:31:34,740 You guys, David Norman swiper. catcher. 1474 01:31:34,770 --> 01:31:42,510 Yep. Soren Miller. Derek visca. Christopher, chair, rubber chair 1475 01:31:42,510 --> 01:31:48,720 a bark. pod verse, LLC. Greg Thomas and Jeremy new Cameron 1476 01:31:48,720 --> 01:31:53,760 rows, Charles current Clark sales. Christopher raymer. 1477 01:31:54,540 --> 01:32:01,080 Thomas Carson. Dred Scott. He's monthly done. Yeah. Jason. Jason 1478 01:32:01,080 --> 01:32:06,360 defilippo. Gary Keller, David metus. Joseph maraca Mark Graham 1479 01:32:06,360 --> 01:32:11,910 Scott Joubert Duane Goldy. Larry Hey, Aaron Renaud, Pedro and 1480 01:32:11,910 --> 01:32:16,200 Gunn call this Kevin row a droid works LLC and borderline 1481 01:32:16,200 --> 01:32:16,770 promotions. 1482 01:32:16,890 --> 01:32:22,350 Wow. Great. That's a great list. No wonder we we haven't gone 1483 01:32:22,350 --> 01:32:25,620 broke yet. We can still pay for stuff. That's fine. That's 1484 01:32:25,620 --> 01:32:26,370 great. 1485 01:32:27,150 --> 01:32:30,510 That's Yeah, I didn't realize I started going through the list 1486 01:32:30,510 --> 01:32:33,930 and looking up all the monthly donor emails and stuff. And then 1487 01:32:33,930 --> 01:32:36,090 I went through and subtracted the like, crossed out the people 1488 01:32:36,090 --> 01:32:41,310 who cancelled and there was so many on this list. I had to I 1489 01:32:41,310 --> 01:32:43,050 had to get a bigger piece of paper. That is 1490 01:32:43,050 --> 01:32:48,000 well, thank you to each and every one of you. And this new 1491 01:32:48,000 --> 01:32:50,070 developer guys, man like this. 1492 01:32:50,820 --> 01:32:51,420 Thank you. 1493 01:32:51,690 --> 01:32:53,280 I'm always a bit humbled by that. 1494 01:32:54,209 --> 01:32:56,129 Yeah. Awesome. So that's a great 1495 01:32:56,249 --> 01:33:00,389 podcast. index.org support the value for value proposition. 1496 01:33:00,629 --> 01:33:04,289 Maybe as we wrap this up, as we go around the the boardroom 1497 01:33:04,289 --> 01:33:07,709 table, maybe Evan, do you have any questions for us about 1498 01:33:07,709 --> 01:33:11,369 podcasting, 2.0, or anything, any features you'd like to see, 1499 01:33:11,369 --> 01:33:14,309 or just anything in general about our side? 1500 01:33:16,230 --> 01:33:16,770 Um, 1501 01:33:17,400 --> 01:33:21,660 I just think it's an awesome project. And I would, I mean, 1502 01:33:21,660 --> 01:33:25,320 I'd love to sit down again and just figure out like you 1503 01:33:25,320 --> 01:33:27,750 mentioned, there's all these other namespace tags that I 1504 01:33:27,750 --> 01:33:31,440 have, I'm not even familiar with. So knowing what's out 1505 01:33:31,440 --> 01:33:35,550 there, what's happening, what's in the future is gonna be cool. 1506 01:33:36,210 --> 01:33:40,560 Well, we've got a lot of really smart people working on a lot of 1507 01:33:40,560 --> 01:33:44,700 great features. And same for you having new podcast apps. COMM 1508 01:33:44,700 --> 01:33:51,390 Sphinx chat is there. It's pretty pretty nifty with those 1509 01:33:51,390 --> 01:33:55,470 guys. Well, I can't wait to end the show for once. Because I'm 1510 01:33:55,470 --> 01:34:00,090 ready to go download the new, the new APK where is the APK? I 1511 01:34:00,090 --> 01:34:01,140 listed on the homepage. 1512 01:34:02,730 --> 01:34:06,540 an APK has not been updated in a while but I'm gonna upload it 1513 01:34:06,540 --> 01:34:07,770 later today. Oh, thank 1514 01:34:07,770 --> 01:34:10,920 you, because I've been running graphene OS and I'm quite 1515 01:34:10,920 --> 01:34:13,980 partial to it. But I have a I have an iPhone. So I'll get it 1516 01:34:13,980 --> 01:34:15,660 from the app store as well to test that there. 1517 01:34:16,200 --> 01:34:19,320 Is that F droid? Is that what Griffin uses? 1518 01:34:19,920 --> 01:34:23,220 Yeah, I mean, you can use any apk file but there's there's 1519 01:34:23,220 --> 01:34:26,040 three different apps. f droid would be the one I would hope it 1520 01:34:26,040 --> 01:34:26,760 would show up in. 1521 01:34:27,390 --> 01:34:31,950 Okay. Yeah, well, we're actually going to completely from scratch 1522 01:34:31,950 --> 01:34:39,780 we build Android to support graphene and stuff it's it's 1523 01:34:39,780 --> 01:34:42,600 built on React Native right now, which is alright, but it's kind 1524 01:34:42,600 --> 01:34:46,470 of hard to get around some of the standard things so 1525 01:34:46,890 --> 01:34:49,770 well, it runs on graphene just fine. I mean, I've no issues 1526 01:34:49,770 --> 01:34:51,030 Yeah, no issues at all. 1527 01:34:51,600 --> 01:34:54,210 I've had people say they couldn't get the QR scanner to 1528 01:34:54,210 --> 01:34:57,630 work or something. But maybe that was different issue. 1529 01:34:59,040 --> 01:35:04,110 All user error. No doubt. Damn users don't know what they're 1530 01:35:04,110 --> 01:35:06,390 doing. Hey, Evan, thank you again, man. Thank you for your 1531 01:35:06,390 --> 01:35:10,020 time. Thank you for your talent. Everything that that you've been 1532 01:35:10,020 --> 01:35:13,110 doing, it's been great connecting and great. Great 1533 01:35:13,110 --> 01:35:16,440 getting a bit of insight into into you and Paul as well and 1534 01:35:16,500 --> 01:35:19,080 everything that's going on over there. And we'll have to have 1535 01:35:19,080 --> 01:35:19,830 you back on. 1536 01:35:20,970 --> 01:35:26,370 Yeah. Thanks for having us on. It's been really fun. And yeah, 1537 01:35:26,400 --> 01:35:30,300 have an awesome week. Thank you. I can't win. Yeah, I'm 1538 01:35:30,300 --> 01:35:32,700 gonna go to the app store right after this. Dave, anything for 1539 01:35:32,700 --> 01:35:37,290 you anything that we need to do to lighten your load? 1540 01:35:37,770 --> 01:35:43,050 now now now now? I'm good. We're gonna have bit Benjamin Bellamy 1541 01:35:43,050 --> 01:35:44,040 on next week. 1542 01:35:45,510 --> 01:35:46,710 Feed directory. Yeah. 1543 01:35:47,220 --> 01:35:49,410 No, no, no, no. I'm counting the podcast. 1544 01:35:49,710 --> 01:35:53,850 Yes, yes. Yeah. Oh, good. I get to pressure him. Yeah. Where the 1545 01:35:53,850 --> 01:35:54,870 hell is it, brother? 1546 01:35:56,130 --> 01:35:58,740 We're gonna have him on. And he's got he. I don't know if you 1547 01:35:58,920 --> 01:36:03,180 noticed. But he gave us a proposal type proposal for 1548 01:36:03,210 --> 01:36:04,830 podcast recommendation. Yes. 1549 01:36:04,860 --> 01:36:09,720 I saw that. And I saw and I've started to look at it. And that 1550 01:36:09,720 --> 01:36:12,600 should let's say I want to go ahead. 1551 01:36:12,630 --> 01:36:13,860 Yeah, I want a deep dive with him. 1552 01:36:14,040 --> 01:36:17,550 Yeah. That's an algo killer right there. algorithm killer 1553 01:36:17,550 --> 01:36:19,260 right there. Yeah, 1554 01:36:19,320 --> 01:36:23,460 it's exactly I think it's intended that way too. We are 1555 01:36:23,460 --> 01:36:25,860 pirates. We're wrecking everything. Thank you both very 1556 01:36:25,860 --> 01:36:30,960 much. This has been podcasting. 2.0 we'll be back next week for 1557 01:36:30,960 --> 01:36:33,930 another board meeting as we discuss what's going on at 1558 01:36:33,930 --> 01:36:35,400 podcasts. index.org See 1559 01:36:35,400 --> 01:36:35,790 you then. 1560 01:36:50,400 --> 01:36:53,790 You have been listening to podcasting 2.0. 1561 01:36:53,910 --> 01:36:57,720 This is podcast in this.com. For more information