1 00:00:00,359 --> 00:00:05,579 Unknown: podcasting 2.0 for January 22 2021, Episode 21 2 00:00:05,579 --> 00:00:14,099 Hooray for Hollywood make up the titles before we start the show 3 00:00:14,099 --> 00:00:14,459 it's 4 00:00:16,350 --> 00:00:20,100 Friday afternoon time once again for a board meeting of 5 00:00:20,130 --> 00:00:25,260 podcasting 2.0 podcast index.org what is going on with the future 6 00:00:25,260 --> 00:00:30,360 of podcasting where we ask your the players you know every 7 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:34,590 single company should do one of these. Forget quarterly reports 8 00:00:34,590 --> 00:00:37,800 just do a podcast. I'm Adam Curry in Austin, Texas now the 9 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:41,250 man who can memorize more transactions than the mempool 10 00:00:41,490 --> 00:00:44,040 ladies and gentlemen Dave Jones. 11 00:00:45,030 --> 00:00:46,860 That's to Bitcoin nerdy man 12 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:49,890 now I'm going full on man, maximalist your 13 00:00:49,890 --> 00:00:51,180 Bitcoin maximalist? 14 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:54,629 Yes, I am. And I dove into the mempool last night trying to 15 00:00:54,629 --> 00:00:57,149 understand what was going on, like, holy crap. 16 00:00:57,450 --> 00:01:01,170 Yeah, I was wondering, are you excited about, you know, venger 17 00:01:01,170 --> 00:01:06,060 bitcoins twice. That's an ocean now. 18 00:01:06,810 --> 00:01:10,260 It's in. Interestingly, that's exactly what I was doing 19 00:01:10,260 --> 00:01:14,670 yesterday, not double spending, but trying to replace the long 20 00:01:14,670 --> 00:01:18,570 story. But that double spin story is kind of fun. 21 00:01:18,630 --> 00:01:22,890 It's not Oh, it's sketchy. Yeah, that's the I dove into it last 22 00:01:22,890 --> 00:01:25,290 night to figure it out. And it was like, Oh, well, that makes 23 00:01:25,290 --> 00:01:29,490 sense. It was just a it's just a normal, normal bailout to a new 24 00:01:29,490 --> 00:01:30,000 chain. 25 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:34,290 I mean, it's kind of a feature of the whole system. So if you 26 00:01:34,290 --> 00:01:37,500 want to call that a double spend? Yeah. Yeah. 27 00:01:37,530 --> 00:01:41,400 No, no, it was it was an added I guess it was just just part of 28 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:43,470 the normal Fudd that's going on right now. 29 00:01:43,860 --> 00:01:46,890 Oh, you mean the fraud like Janet Yellen saying that? 30 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:50,700 cryptocurrency is only used for illicit purposes like 31 00:01:50,790 --> 00:01:52,020 podcasting. 32 00:01:53,220 --> 00:01:56,490 Janet, Janet, have you? Have you checked the US dollar lately? 33 00:01:57,750 --> 00:02:00,210 Last time I checked, it was used for a lot of illicit things. 34 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:04,260 Yeah, I think I can pull any random dollar out of my pocket. 35 00:02:04,260 --> 00:02:08,160 And you probably have traces of something on it. My traces but 36 00:02:08,190 --> 00:02:12,750 in general. Whoo. All right. How you doing, man? Pretty good. 37 00:02:12,810 --> 00:02:18,900 It's a pretty intense week of at the day job, but I'm hanging in 38 00:02:18,900 --> 00:02:22,920 there to Friday. I'm just glad so glad that it's Friday. Yeah, 39 00:02:22,920 --> 00:02:25,440 no, I hear you that it's my favorite. It's really is my 40 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,380 favorite day of the week. I chill out a little bit in the 41 00:02:28,380 --> 00:02:32,130 morning resting from a hard day's work on Thursday, which 42 00:02:32,130 --> 00:02:36,600 is, in fact true. Yeah. And then it's like, oh, yeah, I get to 43 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:38,820 talk about what we've been doing. What have we been doing? 44 00:02:38,850 --> 00:02:40,590 I don't know. I have to ask Dave on the show. 45 00:02:42,540 --> 00:02:44,910 I'll tell I'll tell you what we're always supposed to be you 46 00:02:44,910 --> 00:02:48,720 know, have been doing. Okay. I know how to get I get this 47 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:52,770 though. Yeah, we're talking about the New York Times 48 00:02:52,770 --> 00:02:58,170 Caliphate show last week. Yeah. So it dawned on me, I was 49 00:02:58,170 --> 00:03:03,090 thinking I kept bothering me that that that show has not been 50 00:03:03,090 --> 00:03:06,090 d platformed. Yet, when it's totally fake. I mean, everything 51 00:03:06,090 --> 00:03:07,170 about it is a lie. 52 00:03:08,490 --> 00:03:10,170 Why would it have to be de platformed? 53 00:03:10,740 --> 00:03:12,900 Well, it's what I'm saying. It's just 54 00:03:12,900 --> 00:03:15,690 it's just a lie. I don't we have lots of lies in the database. 55 00:03:16,530 --> 00:03:20,310 That's true. But the canceled culture perspective. You mean? 56 00:03:20,430 --> 00:03:23,340 Yeah. Yeah, it hasn't been canceled yet. Complete ly. 57 00:03:23,820 --> 00:03:26,730 You can't cancel because it's the New York Times and it's the 58 00:03:26,730 --> 00:03:28,920 daily production team. 59 00:03:29,190 --> 00:03:33,420 I've got a simple app figured out the ad hit me when I looked 60 00:03:33,420 --> 00:03:36,510 at the list the list of episodes. There's like 12 61 00:03:36,510 --> 00:03:41,580 episodes. Yeah. And then there's one bonus bonus episode that 62 00:03:41,580 --> 00:03:44,490 they posted after they discovered that it was fraud. 63 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:48,210 And it was just like a little bit of a Mia culpa. like a like 64 00:03:48,210 --> 00:03:51,600 a short Mia culpa episode. So that that's like the key to not 65 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:51,720 get 66 00:03:51,750 --> 00:03:54,000 Oh, you do a little We're sorry. 67 00:03:54,450 --> 00:03:57,600 Yeah, usually about once every dozen episodes, you just say By 68 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,630 the way, this is all not true. And then you just go right back 69 00:04:00,630 --> 00:04:02,910 to what you're doing. It's just like, it's a little secret 70 00:04:02,910 --> 00:04:03,420 sauce. 71 00:04:03,630 --> 00:04:06,990 You see, I see that completely differently. I've looked at this 72 00:04:06,990 --> 00:04:11,280 and think that's a great format come up with completely made up 73 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,940 stories. That sound absolutely real. That's perfect. I mean, 74 00:04:14,970 --> 00:04:17,100 they do it on television every day 75 00:04:17,190 --> 00:04:21,390 in our art bill made a career out of it for 30 years in radio. 76 00:04:21,420 --> 00:04:25,140 Yeah, so that that sounds like if I had time I'd probably put 77 00:04:25,140 --> 00:04:28,890 something fun together and I'm I you know, I like doing live 78 00:04:28,890 --> 00:04:34,560 podcasts but I am not averse to you know, a huge sound design 79 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:38,880 project. That'd be fun. HG Wells war the world and that's the 80 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:41,820 first thing that hit me is oh my gosh, that's exactly what this 81 00:04:41,820 --> 00:04:47,280 is. Only and the beauty of of War of the Worlds was they kept 82 00:04:47,280 --> 00:04:50,220 broadcasting that it was not real and people didn't believe 83 00:04:50,220 --> 00:04:54,090 it's real. Or they didn't hear it or you know, whatever. 84 00:04:54,090 --> 00:04:55,890 selective hearing selective memory. 85 00:04:56,070 --> 00:04:58,800 Wow, that's a lot like that's a lot like the media now. 86 00:04:59,070 --> 00:05:03,870 Yes. just changed at all. Other than you know, podcasting having 87 00:05:03,870 --> 00:05:07,830 a crosshairs on his back. Thanks to which I could not be more 88 00:05:07,830 --> 00:05:08,700 delighted about. 89 00:05:09,330 --> 00:05:12,990 Yeah, that that's just like the that's what I keep insert. You 90 00:05:12,990 --> 00:05:15,990 can insert that everywhere you can just say when when their 91 00:05:15,990 --> 00:05:19,530 headline headline reads, you know, loophole allows 92 00:05:19,530 --> 00:05:24,720 misinformation, parentheses like Caliphate and parentheses to 93 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:25,710 continue. 94 00:05:25,740 --> 00:05:31,650 Yeah put that anywhere. Yeah. No food for thought. Yeah. So what 95 00:05:31,650 --> 00:05:34,290 have we been working on this week over I mean, there's been a 96 00:05:34,290 --> 00:05:36,810 lot of things flowing back and forth and some of those I'm 97 00:05:36,810 --> 00:05:40,110 going to bring up with our guest today we have two prominent 98 00:05:40,110 --> 00:05:44,400 figures from the podcasting. I'm gonna say the podcasting space 99 00:05:44,550 --> 00:05:47,100 that has got to be in the has no need no one of our 100 00:05:47,130 --> 00:05:50,730 one of our guests like that like that word. So really, yeah. So 101 00:05:50,730 --> 00:05:56,520 I'm just adapting I'm code signaling. Base man the space. 102 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,890 Let me see, of course, there's some IP Fs talk. We'll talk 103 00:06:01,890 --> 00:06:06,660 about that later. I also have some things about some of the 104 00:06:06,660 --> 00:06:11,640 first phase of the namespace. What else what else has been 105 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:13,920 going on? The couple I thought there was one or two discussions 106 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:16,140 on podcast index social. 107 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:18,960 Yes, some people are starting to look into and play with the 108 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:22,500 Ellen pay. Yes, yeah, yes. Yeah. 109 00:06:22,620 --> 00:06:27,120 And I saw, I'm so happy this morning, I woke up. And the 110 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,810 first thing I check, because I want to be happy first thing in 111 00:06:30,810 --> 00:06:35,220 the morning, is I check podcast index on social. And there's 112 00:06:35,220 --> 00:06:40,020 Martin You know, I've been on a pod friend kick. It's just it's, 113 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:44,610 it's really functional for me, especially on graphene OS. And 114 00:06:44,850 --> 00:06:47,700 now he's like, Oh, yeah, I'm gonna do like, oh, man, I can't 115 00:06:47,700 --> 00:06:50,520 wait. Let me break it. Please. Give me code. Let me try and 116 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,670 break it for you, Martin. I love that. It's coming. I'm getting 117 00:06:53,670 --> 00:06:58,380 old and I got pod station up and working. Which, which works with 118 00:06:58,380 --> 00:06:59,550 the with the node. 119 00:06:59,969 --> 00:07:02,279 I couldn't figure out the macaroon thing. Head. How did 120 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:05,969 you get your SS? It has to be hex encoded? Yeah, downloaded my 121 00:07:05,969 --> 00:07:09,599 macaroon from voltage? Yeah, it's in just a binary format. 122 00:07:09,599 --> 00:07:12,239 And, like, how did you get yours out of there? 123 00:07:13,590 --> 00:07:17,940 You've got if you go to I think it's manual connect on voltage 124 00:07:17,970 --> 00:07:21,960 and your voltage node. It has a hex, it has a hex value. 125 00:07:22,380 --> 00:07:27,030 Oh, for the LLC for LLC a lot. Yeah. All right, I'll do that. 126 00:07:27,030 --> 00:07:28,470 And once you have tried to play with it, 127 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:32,100 it was phenomenal. And then this is where I got into meaningful 128 00:07:32,100 --> 00:07:37,410 stuff. So I set up I've like all set up a little test wallet just 129 00:07:37,410 --> 00:07:40,890 for you know, for my purposes over at voltage, and I chose a 130 00:07:40,890 --> 00:07:44,550 light node, Oh, my God. And Graeme, I've been working on 131 00:07:44,550 --> 00:07:48,330 this for 48 hours, this thing came up all spotty. And of 132 00:07:48,330 --> 00:07:51,120 course, you know, by already transferred not much, but like 133 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:55,920 1520 bucks to it from from my own wallet. But because it never 134 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:59,280 came up properly, it had to shut down and then it came back up 135 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,700 again. And then it had to synchronize and it was confused. 136 00:08:02,700 --> 00:08:06,420 And then here's the here's the funny part. Since I've done 137 00:08:06,420 --> 00:08:10,080 those transfers, and try to open a channel at a different date a 138 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:13,380 different time, the fee structure was really, really low 139 00:08:13,380 --> 00:08:16,860 at that particular moment. So when this node came back up, and 140 00:08:16,860 --> 00:08:20,790 the verification process started, you know, my payments, 141 00:08:20,790 --> 00:08:24,780 were still sitting there at a very low fee, so they weren't 142 00:08:24,780 --> 00:08:27,570 being picked up. And they weren't being transferred. And 143 00:08:27,570 --> 00:08:31,230 I've been waiting, like 17 hours for a channel to open. It's 144 00:08:31,230 --> 00:08:34,920 trying to go to two sets per v byte or something. It's I'm 145 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:36,450 learning this stuff like wow, 146 00:08:36,450 --> 00:08:40,230 it's this is so genius the way it was put together. So you 147 00:08:40,230 --> 00:08:43,860 You're the transaction that you initially funded the node with 148 00:08:43,860 --> 00:08:47,610 your, your, your chain transaction. Yeah, exactly. And, 149 00:08:47,910 --> 00:08:51,570 and this is where I learned the RBF. So you can replace your 150 00:08:51,570 --> 00:08:55,650 bid, because it's just sitting in your own little mempool 151 00:08:55,650 --> 00:08:56,100 space. 152 00:08:56,130 --> 00:08:58,380 Oh, I think it resting bitchface I thought this week, 153 00:08:58,500 --> 00:09:01,350 that's what it should be called. Because that's the look I have 154 00:09:01,350 --> 00:09:02,820 while trying to figure this out. 155 00:09:03,030 --> 00:09:04,200 Okay, that's funny. I 156 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:06,240 think I didn't make that connection myself. 157 00:09:06,990 --> 00:09:09,870 That's replaced replaced by fee. Yeah, at least by fee or 158 00:09:09,870 --> 00:09:10,560 something like that. Yeah. 159 00:09:10,560 --> 00:09:13,470 So and then you just you you do the exact same amount of 160 00:09:13,470 --> 00:09:17,520 satoshis. And then the higher fee and it repentant. And it 161 00:09:18,090 --> 00:09:21,990 replaces it essentially. Although, and that's what that 162 00:09:21,990 --> 00:09:26,430 story was about the fudge story that it now you had basically 163 00:09:26,430 --> 00:09:30,810 two payments waiting to go and it picked up the one with a 164 00:09:30,810 --> 00:09:34,770 lower fee. And I don't know this story was convoluted, but I've 165 00:09:34,770 --> 00:09:39,120 heard I was listening to I think Tales from the Crypt and then 166 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,790 Marty Marty held my hand. I understood it after that. 167 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:47,250 Anyway, okay, so that's it now that's hot Bitcoin. Lightning ln 168 00:09:47,250 --> 00:09:51,330 ditto. Just be lm D and L n d love. Ellen. 169 00:09:51,540 --> 00:09:51,960 Ellen, do 170 00:09:51,959 --> 00:09:54,959 you hear on podcasting? 2.0 Yeah. 171 00:09:56,910 --> 00:10:00,660 Yeah, I think what did you get it ever sorted Did you get that 172 00:10:00,660 --> 00:10:01,110 finished? 173 00:10:02,580 --> 00:10:05,490 The light node? Well, so then I was trying to bump the channel 174 00:10:05,490 --> 00:10:08,340 up. And I wasn't having a lot of success because I have to do 175 00:10:08,340 --> 00:10:12,450 that with lm ci from my own node. And I was able to connect, 176 00:10:12,450 --> 00:10:15,120 but I'm, you know, it's all JSON that's being returned. So my 177 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:15,750 eyes are going. 178 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:17,160 Yeah. 179 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,810 So now I haven't figured out but you know, it's been just working 180 00:10:21,810 --> 00:10:24,510 with Graham. And it's been fun because I'm learning about how 181 00:10:24,510 --> 00:10:27,780 this stuff works. And I'm learning Moreover, because I'll 182 00:10:27,780 --> 00:10:32,340 be setting up a node for Max Keiser, and Stacy Herbert, who 183 00:10:32,340 --> 00:10:37,470 were all jacked. And you know, once, once we get our first 184 00:10:37,560 --> 00:10:40,950 scalable app integration, they want to they want to start 185 00:10:40,950 --> 00:10:45,090 trying it. And there's a lot of Bitcoin people who will jump on 186 00:10:45,090 --> 00:10:48,210 that boat, man, I'll tell you, orange pill, orange pill 187 00:10:48,210 --> 00:10:49,290 podcast. Yeah. Okay. I've 188 00:10:49,290 --> 00:10:51,030 never heard it. But I know, I know, it exists. 189 00:10:51,060 --> 00:10:53,640 Well, they have to have one during the week where they're 190 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:58,020 just kind of jamming together. And, you know, kind of, it's 191 00:10:58,020 --> 00:11:02,850 kind of like a drunk party. If you know, Maximus days is pretty 192 00:11:02,850 --> 00:11:06,480 funny. But then the other one, which I think is on Sundays, 193 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:10,710 they have guests on, and it's it's highly philosophy, you 194 00:11:10,710 --> 00:11:14,010 know, philosophy, it's a high philosophy type conversation, 195 00:11:14,010 --> 00:11:18,630 the philosophical. Yes, thank you. Thank you couldn't get it 196 00:11:18,630 --> 00:11:24,810 out. So that's how highly philosophical I am. But it's 197 00:11:24,810 --> 00:11:27,630 good. Yes, interesting people and they talk about really the 198 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:33,990 whole concept of Bitcoin and the freedom it provides versus the 199 00:11:33,990 --> 00:11:36,750 existing system. It's fascinating that this movement 200 00:11:36,750 --> 00:11:40,080 is so interesting to me, I'm, I'm happy to be swept up and 201 00:11:40,500 --> 00:11:46,320 delirious as I am. And I did a I did a Bitcoin presentation at 202 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:46,650 work. 203 00:11:47,310 --> 00:11:50,940 And Eric said he, Eric, the shell said he saw did you send 204 00:11:50,940 --> 00:11:53,250 me that video video on slides? If you do on that? 205 00:11:53,460 --> 00:11:55,530 No, I don't think I sent it to you. It's good. It had some 206 00:11:55,530 --> 00:11:58,500 proprietary stuff from our company in it. But I'll but I'll 207 00:11:58,500 --> 00:12:03,000 send it to you privately. Yeah. Yeah. But the so we were talking 208 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,580 about it. And I was just explaining how everything 209 00:12:05,580 --> 00:12:09,720 worked. And part of what came up in the in the presentation was 210 00:12:10,650 --> 00:12:13,770 the all the institutional investors that are getting in 211 00:12:13,770 --> 00:12:17,700 now like, mass mutual bollock. 100 million in real estate like 212 00:12:18,150 --> 00:12:19,800 mutual I didn't even know that part. 213 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:24,600 Yeah, they bought they bought 100 million in Bitcoin. And 214 00:12:24,630 --> 00:12:27,300 there's there's a lot of institutional investment now 215 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:31,530 going into it. So it's gonna be really hard to shut it 216 00:12:31,560 --> 00:12:34,830 down that bad. Yeah, the genies out of the bottle. bitcoins just 217 00:12:34,830 --> 00:12:37,710 suck when you suck in the institutional. It gets really 218 00:12:37,710 --> 00:12:44,280 interesting. And then we get we'll get a What does that? What 219 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:51,480 is that kind of tradable fund and ETF ETF? That's what I'm 220 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,300 thinking of? Yeah. Yeah, with ETFs. That's what everyone I 221 00:12:54,300 --> 00:12:57,270 think has been waiting for. I don't know much about that. I 222 00:12:57,270 --> 00:12:59,700 don't either. But that's that's all I know, is all I know is we 223 00:12:59,700 --> 00:13:04,170 can send little little bits of money and value from one person 224 00:13:04,170 --> 00:13:10,170 to the other in a seamless fashion in a timed fashion. So 225 00:13:10,170 --> 00:13:14,880 yeah, so there was that? Yeah. What else was there? 226 00:13:15,630 --> 00:13:18,810 Well, there's been I mean, we've talked a lot. We talked some 227 00:13:18,810 --> 00:13:23,340 about, yeah, we talked about some namespace stuff. And just 228 00:13:23,340 --> 00:13:27,210 and there was another discussion going on about the sort of 229 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,330 trying to come up with a universal link structure. 230 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,760 Yeah. Explain that. Thanks. Thank you for bringing that up. 231 00:13:32,790 --> 00:13:36,870 I saw that. I tried to focus on it my eyes glazed over what 232 00:13:36,870 --> 00:13:40,230 exactly? Is it? And what is the benefit, which I think someone 233 00:13:40,230 --> 00:13:41,940 asked, you know, why are we doing this? 234 00:13:42,330 --> 00:13:45,180 Well, there's two, you could look at it two ways, you could 235 00:13:45,180 --> 00:13:48,330 say there's a sort of a universal link that would just 236 00:13:48,330 --> 00:13:52,380 say somehow to trigger whatever your default podcast player is 237 00:13:52,590 --> 00:13:58,860 on your, on your device. But then the other type of thing, 238 00:13:58,890 --> 00:14:04,770 then what was really the focus was how to have a universal link 239 00:14:04,770 --> 00:14:07,920 structure for how to address a particular episode and 240 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:12,270 timestamp. So that you can say whether or not it's pod, pod 241 00:14:12,270 --> 00:14:13,800 friend pod station, 242 00:14:13,830 --> 00:14:16,800 you can just do question mark equals and then number of 243 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:21,420 seconds. Ah, so I like the idea of the universal link structure 244 00:14:21,420 --> 00:14:26,250 for so that it'll open up your your app will know what to do 245 00:14:26,250 --> 00:14:26,640 with it. 246 00:14:27,180 --> 00:14:32,250 Right? And that that would require OS support. Which I'm 247 00:14:32,250 --> 00:14:35,850 not aware of any OSS that support it, maybe somebody else 248 00:14:35,850 --> 00:14:39,390 knows but I don't that don't think that exists yet. He said 249 00:14:39,390 --> 00:14:42,720 something like, you know, podcast, colon slash slash, 250 00:14:43,170 --> 00:14:46,590 whatever the you know, hyper catcher, slash, 251 00:14:46,890 --> 00:14:49,800 blah, blah, right, right. So something like that. What does 252 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,730 that mean that every host has to now name their fod like that 253 00:14:53,730 --> 00:14:55,470 would be a hosting company thing. 254 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:59,220 Now that would just be a link it would just be a link recognition 255 00:14:59,220 --> 00:15:03,870 inside that So there's no like a protocol scheme missing 256 00:15:03,870 --> 00:15:05,010 registering a new protocol. 257 00:15:05,730 --> 00:15:06,750 I see I see 258 00:15:07,050 --> 00:15:08,790 it, there's that there's that side of it, which is 259 00:15:08,790 --> 00:15:10,980 interesting. And then the, you know, just the other side of 260 00:15:10,980 --> 00:15:14,790 trying to figure out how to interrupt between between apps. 261 00:15:15,060 --> 00:15:19,860 So I could pod vert, you know, if pod verse has their shareable 262 00:15:19,860 --> 00:15:23,430 link structure, and then it's like, each one has their own 263 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:27,600 scheme, if you could just sort of universalize that. It may 264 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,090 make interrupt easier between apps. 265 00:15:31,650 --> 00:15:33,720 You need buy in from the two platforms? 266 00:15:34,260 --> 00:15:37,500 Yeah, on both areas you need buy in, right? Yeah. And it's just 267 00:15:37,500 --> 00:15:40,530 kind of just one of those sort of tangential things not really, 268 00:15:41,100 --> 00:15:45,480 index or namespace related, but just more so like, Hey, this is 269 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,390 a prop. This is a problem that's kind of universal to everybody. 270 00:15:48,390 --> 00:15:50,520 And can we bake a solution for it? 271 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:57,450 So how do you propose that to the OS? So I presume it's Apple, 272 00:15:57,450 --> 00:16:02,160 Google and Windows Microsoft? 273 00:16:02,430 --> 00:16:04,140 Yeah, that would be your three. Yeah. 274 00:16:04,140 --> 00:16:05,640 How'd you actually pose that? 275 00:16:06,660 --> 00:16:10,620 I think you just somehow, you know, expressed the need. 276 00:16:11,820 --> 00:16:14,850 Oh, you mean like it like a namespace for podcasting? Okay, 277 00:16:14,940 --> 00:16:17,910 sounds sounds like that. Just okay. We have a need for this 278 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:19,260 not gonna do shit for? 279 00:16:20,430 --> 00:16:24,420 Well, moving on. Next up? I don't know, I had no idea. I 280 00:16:24,420 --> 00:16:29,220 mean, I have no clue. Well, I mean, on ipfs, supported to cut 281 00:16:29,220 --> 00:16:33,840 how many years to get to get an ipfs protocol handler to be 282 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,320 recognized by chrome or chrome. It's not even in there. It's not 283 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,650 even it doesn't function yet. But it's in chromium. And that 284 00:16:40,650 --> 00:16:42,900 brave Finally, sort of activated it. 285 00:16:44,070 --> 00:16:46,740 on there? Well, I think there's a number of reasons for this. 286 00:16:47,310 --> 00:16:55,260 Certainly, why certain companies who, who benefit from selling 287 00:16:55,260 --> 00:16:58,830 services are apprehensive about that. And maybe this is a good 288 00:16:58,830 --> 00:17:01,140 time to bring in our guests. It won't be the first question, 289 00:17:01,140 --> 00:17:04,980 I'll pop at them. But it certainly should come up. These 290 00:17:04,980 --> 00:17:08,370 are two guys who have been a part of podcasting for a very 291 00:17:08,370 --> 00:17:13,530 long time since the beginning. I remember him. I remember, have 292 00:17:13,560 --> 00:17:18,960 supported podcast index and podcasting. 2.0 nice guys all 293 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:23,250 round and have just, yeah, just been certainly a part of my life 294 00:17:23,250 --> 00:17:26,280 tendentially throughout the podcasting, and in the 295 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:32,670 podcasting space, for the past 16 years. Please welcome from 296 00:17:32,700 --> 00:17:37,620 blueberry podcasting. its founder, Todd Cochran, and 297 00:17:37,620 --> 00:17:41,850 Customer Support Manager, Mike Dell. And let me unmute both of 298 00:17:41,850 --> 00:17:42,450 these guys. 299 00:17:43,410 --> 00:17:44,100 So guys, 300 00:17:44,670 --> 00:17:47,310 in the morning, I do in the morning to you, Todd. 301 00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,660 Thanks for having us on your board meeting. This is awesome. 302 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:54,180 Well, we love having guests at the board meeting. 303 00:17:54,269 --> 00:17:56,309 It's now a bunch of old guys and me. 304 00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,630 Please, damn, shut up. 305 00:18:01,260 --> 00:18:02,490 You know what? It's true? 306 00:18:03,630 --> 00:18:06,150 Well, sadly, it is. You're my age, aren't you? Todd? You're 307 00:18:06,180 --> 00:18:09,450 about same age. Yeah, same age. And I'm a 308 00:18:09,450 --> 00:18:14,520 little younger than you guys. So you're 55? I'm just gonna say, 309 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:19,890 yeah, we're all up there. Maybe we should just start a little 310 00:18:19,890 --> 00:18:23,670 bit with the with the history of blueberry. It's been around for 311 00:18:23,670 --> 00:18:27,210 a long time. It's a staple. I mean, I would say, if you ask 312 00:18:27,210 --> 00:18:31,170 anybody. You know, there's a couple names that come to mind 313 00:18:31,380 --> 00:18:35,550 about podcasting host podcast hosting companies, and 314 00:18:35,580 --> 00:18:38,370 blueberries always there. Probably also, I think the name 315 00:18:38,370 --> 00:18:42,540 has always been intriguing, as irritating as I find it to have 316 00:18:42,540 --> 00:18:46,290 to add that to every dictionary on every device I've ever owned. 317 00:18:48,330 --> 00:18:49,410 Tell me feel the pain. 318 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:53,190 Tell me about the name. Todd. I don't know if we even know this. 319 00:18:53,430 --> 00:18:55,500 This, this the reason behind this? 320 00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:59,430 Well, you know, the history of the company really started when 321 00:18:59,430 --> 00:19:03,180 I had gotten an ad deal with GoDaddy. And they asked did I 322 00:19:03,180 --> 00:19:06,570 know any other podcasters that wanted to advertise in podcasts? 323 00:19:06,570 --> 00:19:10,110 I said, Well, I need help. So I formed a business. Basically, 324 00:19:10,110 --> 00:19:12,600 the people that formed the company with me came from my 325 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:16,680 audience. So I basically I need a lawyer. I need a Biz Dev, I 326 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:22,170 need a guy. And I found those guys on on the show. And we 327 00:19:22,170 --> 00:19:26,340 started the company together and the company's actual name is raw 328 00:19:26,340 --> 00:19:28,110 voice, but no one knows that. 329 00:19:28,140 --> 00:19:31,110 Oh, yeah. I didn't know that. Of course. Yeah. 330 00:19:31,140 --> 00:19:35,760 my paycheck. Mike's paycheck says raw voice on it. But really 331 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:41,070 what happened was is we launched part of our first initiative. We 332 00:19:41,070 --> 00:19:44,010 launched a site called podcaster news. And it was basically 333 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:49,560 trying to be like, short snippets of podcasts from me. 334 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:54,000 Yeah, I remember. And that was, you know, that was one of those 335 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,430 spitballs sheets or on the wall. That didn't work. Well, what 336 00:19:56,430 --> 00:19:58,860 year was that? That was oh five 337 00:20:00,030 --> 00:20:05,100 Okay, and now, I remember you wrote a book, maybe two books. 338 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,130 Did. Could I cooperate on that that I talked to you? 339 00:20:08,670 --> 00:20:13,380 You did provided me because I went out yesterday. 340 00:20:15,179 --> 00:20:17,999 I remember in the beginning, so at a certain point, everybody 341 00:20:17,999 --> 00:20:21,659 was calling me about a book. Yeah. And I think I said no to 342 00:20:21,689 --> 00:20:24,719 almost everybody. And they want four words and like, I'm not 343 00:20:24,719 --> 00:20:27,359 interested. And I got other things to do. I really 344 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:31,529 appreciate it. But just go do your book. The stories is well 345 00:20:31,529 --> 00:20:35,039 known. Did we talk in person on the phone or email? 346 00:20:35,459 --> 00:20:39,629 I email? So I am. Yeah, we get some emails back and forth. 347 00:20:39,689 --> 00:20:42,509 Well, we might as well dive into this right now. Because I don't 348 00:20:42,509 --> 00:20:44,639 know what you children are doing. But you're you're making 349 00:20:44,639 --> 00:20:47,909 a mess of my podcasting. 2.0. With you're looking backwards 350 00:20:47,909 --> 00:20:50,669 crap. Let's settle this once. And for all, what's going on? 351 00:20:53,670 --> 00:20:55,530 podcasting is 20 years old. 352 00:20:55,710 --> 00:20:56,370 Yeah. 353 00:20:57,990 --> 00:21:02,760 I think the concepts go back pro late 2000. And then, you know, 354 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:06,150 the conversation you had with Dave, so the other the other 355 00:21:06,150 --> 00:21:07,230 day. All right. 356 00:21:07,230 --> 00:21:12,930 So the controversy here, since I think I want to go too deep into 357 00:21:12,930 --> 00:21:18,150 it. But the controversy is that pod news published kind of a 358 00:21:18,150 --> 00:21:24,000 republish of I think it was Dave Weiner's blog post about the 359 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,900 history of podcasting. And which, which the the, the 360 00:21:27,900 --> 00:21:31,440 history of the Genesis goat? Well, I mean, technically, you 361 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,950 could say goes back to the invention of TCP IP, which is 362 00:21:34,950 --> 00:21:37,260 what a lot of people do when it comes to the history of 363 00:21:37,260 --> 00:21:43,350 something. But it does go back to 2000. Based upon a concept 364 00:21:43,350 --> 00:21:49,470 that I had. So pod news, did I thought it was more like tongue 365 00:21:49,470 --> 00:21:51,810 in cheek, you know, like, hey, it's actually 20 years of 366 00:21:51,810 --> 00:21:56,700 podcasting. Congratulations. And, and, you know, when you're 367 00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:00,510 when you're dealing in text, and people are publishing articles, 368 00:22:00,510 --> 00:22:04,170 and you can read it with whatever intonation you want. 369 00:22:05,730 --> 00:22:08,880 And I thought, and most of it was kind of in jest, but did you 370 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:12,330 take offense to that? Because you wrote the history of 371 00:22:12,330 --> 00:22:16,260 podcasting, you wrote the book, did you find that that was, what 372 00:22:16,260 --> 00:22:19,170 was your you push back on him, I would say, 373 00:22:20,009 --> 00:22:24,209 the only thing I push back on was my definition of when 374 00:22:24,209 --> 00:22:29,669 podcasting truly started, is when you had a desktop, and you 375 00:22:29,669 --> 00:22:33,089 know all about this desktop software application, which 376 00:22:33,089 --> 00:22:36,419 would read an RSS feed with an enclosure, automatically 377 00:22:36,419 --> 00:22:40,889 download that media and sync it to a media device, and all the 378 00:22:40,889 --> 00:22:45,389 creators and people that came in this space, as a result of that, 379 00:22:45,389 --> 00:22:49,859 that's where I kind of drew the line is the basic start of 380 00:22:49,859 --> 00:22:53,999 podcasting. But we know it and I haven't acknowledged and I give 381 00:22:53,999 --> 00:22:58,649 full credit to Dave and you and everyone else that that the 382 00:22:58,649 --> 00:23:05,279 idea. And the enclosure tag discussion happened 2000 2001. 383 00:23:05,939 --> 00:23:11,399 And what's new, and what was new of this morning is there was 384 00:23:11,399 --> 00:23:18,449 some inclination made that Dave had made a pod catcher back in 385 00:23:18,449 --> 00:23:22,559 2001. And I'm thinking, this is news to me. Now, I know he had 386 00:23:22,559 --> 00:23:25,169 done stuff in user land and included it there and did some 387 00:23:25,169 --> 00:23:29,909 test stuff that I'd never heard that he built a pod Catcher in 388 00:23:29,909 --> 00:23:35,789 2001. You know, the iPod came late 2001. And there was really 389 00:23:35,789 --> 00:23:38,069 nothing else now I'll give you I'll give you this story. 390 00:23:38,220 --> 00:23:41,850 All right. Last time, I'm gonna do it later. And we're all gonna 391 00:23:41,850 --> 00:23:42,300 stop. 392 00:23:44,460 --> 00:23:45,060 Sounds good. 393 00:23:46,230 --> 00:23:51,120 In 2000, I was in Amsterdam. And this part of the story is 394 00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:54,180 important. At the same time, it's kind of funny because this 395 00:23:54,180 --> 00:23:58,470 part of the story is completely obsolete. The whole idea behind 396 00:23:58,740 --> 00:24:03,540 this, this subscription podcast, or the subscription content 397 00:24:03,540 --> 00:24:09,300 delivery is obsolete. But this is this is how it came to be. I 398 00:24:09,300 --> 00:24:12,450 had a cable modem in in Amsterdam, which meant we had 399 00:24:12,450 --> 00:24:15,690 always on computing that was being sold as such, you didn't 400 00:24:15,690 --> 00:24:18,600 have great bandwidth, but yet always on computing, so you 401 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,360 didn't have to dial in with your modem. And there was no 402 00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:24,720 experience for video, we had QuickTime video, but just a 403 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,200 short little, we didn't really have great codecs. And before 404 00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:32,310 you knew it, a video of a couple minutes could be 100 megabytes. 405 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:34,800 And that would take you know that could take five or 10 406 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,010 minutes or even longer to download. So any and I was only 407 00:24:38,010 --> 00:24:40,650 looking at video, although Napster had my attention that 408 00:24:40,650 --> 00:24:45,060 came up around the same time, which was also an artifact of 409 00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:49,170 always on computing. So it was it wasn't a spiffy slick, fast 410 00:24:49,170 --> 00:24:53,490 system. But people's computers were on so easy to initiate 411 00:24:53,490 --> 00:24:59,130 downloads of content that you wanted. So but even then, 412 00:24:59,130 --> 00:25:02,580 there's no experience We had real audio real video, which 413 00:25:02,580 --> 00:25:07,260 was, you know, very questionable quality. And you had to license 414 00:25:07,260 --> 00:25:11,670 it. And you couldn't just start up. And I considered that I 415 00:25:11,670 --> 00:25:15,690 wrote an essay about this called the last yard. And the idea was 416 00:25:15,690 --> 00:25:18,030 you had something running on your computer, which was now 417 00:25:18,030 --> 00:25:21,870 always on by default, that would be looking for a piece of 418 00:25:21,870 --> 00:25:26,340 content that you want media. And because you're, you're asking it 419 00:25:26,340 --> 00:25:30,030 to pay attention to it, which would be a subscription. And if 420 00:25:30,030 --> 00:25:33,150 it sees it, it would download it, and it would not notify you 421 00:25:33,150 --> 00:25:35,970 the user until it was downloaded. So therefore, you 422 00:25:35,970 --> 00:25:39,030 remove the entire weight, you don't know what's happening. So 423 00:25:39,390 --> 00:25:41,340 it doesn't really matter. When you watch the news, you're 424 00:25:41,340 --> 00:25:44,700 watching video from earlier in the day or five weeks ago, it 425 00:25:44,700 --> 00:25:47,370 doesn't really matter when it was, when it was produced. It's 426 00:25:47,370 --> 00:25:51,540 the moment when it's presented. And so I, Dave had radio user 427 00:25:51,540 --> 00:25:54,150 land, which I was interested in, because I'm a very bad 428 00:25:54,180 --> 00:25:59,550 developer, I can't even be call myself. That's how bad I am. 429 00:25:59,970 --> 00:26:04,770 And, and he has proprietary scripting language, I was trying 430 00:26:04,770 --> 00:26:08,370 to figure that out. But I knew that this could be built somehow 431 00:26:08,370 --> 00:26:12,240 with something like this. And I tried to explain it to him. I 432 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,330 don't think he appreciated me in general, you know, like some a 433 00:26:15,330 --> 00:26:17,910 whole Hollywood guy, you know, what is he doing here trying to 434 00:26:17,910 --> 00:26:21,030 tell me what to do. I went back the next day, I flew to New York 435 00:26:21,030 --> 00:26:25,680 specifically for this. And Dave, the next day, he thought about 436 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:30,810 it, I explained it again, I had done a little mock up in his 437 00:26:31,110 --> 00:26:35,490 application Radio userland to show how it would work. And he 438 00:26:35,490 --> 00:26:38,760 said, Okay, I get it. I'm gonna put this in. And I'll show you 439 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,000 how, but I only do it if you promise to never, ever touch my 440 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:46,380 software again. So okay, not not too hard. 441 00:26:46,830 --> 00:26:49,740 When we add in the timeline, now, this is 2000. I'm still 442 00:26:49,740 --> 00:26:54,930 in New York. And he had, he was at that moment, a radio user 443 00:26:54,930 --> 00:27:02,010 land use use RSS or ODOT. Nine to I guess, just for an end user 444 00:27:02,010 --> 00:27:05,130 land, it was called radio user land, which appealed to me, 445 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,730 because you could broadcast and receive it was a transceiver. So 446 00:27:08,730 --> 00:27:12,210 you could create a feed, and had a whole aggregator structure, 447 00:27:12,390 --> 00:27:17,010 exactly like a podcast pod catcher. On the back end, you 448 00:27:17,010 --> 00:27:20,610 could subscribe, you could unsubscribe, you could do a 449 00:27:20,610 --> 00:27:23,730 river, you could do all you could segregate by, by 450 00:27:23,730 --> 00:27:27,330 individual feed all of that. And just it worked as a desktop app 451 00:27:27,450 --> 00:27:32,160 with a little server on your, on your machine and just talked to 452 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:38,580 the local hosts on 5335 or something. So when that was 453 00:27:38,580 --> 00:27:43,560 implemented, that's when RSS 2.0 came to life. And with the 454 00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,560 enclosure tag, and we were sending, you know, I was 455 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,980 subscribed to his feed, he was subscribed to mine for years. 456 00:27:50,310 --> 00:27:53,040 And I wake up and there'd be a video file from something in New 457 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:57,450 York. Now, to say, That's not a pod catcher. We didn't have the 458 00:27:57,450 --> 00:28:03,180 pod, the iPod, we didn't have the name. But what we had is 459 00:28:03,180 --> 00:28:08,310 more of a movement. So even to say that anyone is any one 460 00:28:08,310 --> 00:28:13,020 individual is responsible. Is this kind of bogus, I think in 461 00:28:13,020 --> 00:28:16,020 technology in general, because you can go back, you know, well, 462 00:28:16,020 --> 00:28:18,900 I used to do cassettes and put them online, and I had an email 463 00:28:18,900 --> 00:28:21,870 and it's all a lot more of the same basic system, is 464 00:28:21,870 --> 00:28:24,420 podcasting, really that much different than an inbox the way 465 00:28:24,420 --> 00:28:31,470 it's presented today. And so that's when the daily source 466 00:28:31,470 --> 00:28:35,460 code came out, because I needed to find developers who would 467 00:28:35,460 --> 00:28:39,510 create these dedicated applications called pod 468 00:28:39,510 --> 00:28:43,530 catchers. But that was three years later. Yeah, that wasn't 469 00:28:43,530 --> 00:28:48,720 until I saw my first iPod. And that's when the apple script 470 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,890 came to life. That just replicated what Radio userland 471 00:28:52,890 --> 00:28:56,250 was doing with an extra trick, which is you download it and 472 00:28:56,250 --> 00:28:59,430 then you trigger these downloaded to iTunes and you 473 00:28:59,430 --> 00:29:02,790 triggered an update to the iPod. And of course, I could make that 474 00:29:02,790 --> 00:29:05,850 scale. It was just a script that would you know, run and, and 475 00:29:05,850 --> 00:29:08,670 look at one feed. And so that's, that's when I was like, Oh, 476 00:29:08,670 --> 00:29:11,220 shit, well, I had this feed. Let me get out there and start 477 00:29:11,220 --> 00:29:13,440 talking about it. And I had a blog, which was pretty new at 478 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,230 the time. So and that that's really how we built it. 479 00:29:17,310 --> 00:29:20,520 So the lag why the lag between the time that you thought 480 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:20,700 because 481 00:29:20,700 --> 00:29:23,550 I had to why I hadn't I hadn't seen the iPod when I saw the 482 00:29:23,550 --> 00:29:26,430 iPod, the light when the iPod had been around for a couple 483 00:29:26,430 --> 00:29:30,600 years. The light went off. I'm like, Oh, hold on a second radio 484 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,800 receiver. That's that's what triggered it for me. Now, 485 00:29:35,250 --> 00:29:39,960 specifically about podcasting. I disagree with pretty much 486 00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:45,330 everybody. I feel that a podcast does not have to be a show. It 487 00:29:45,330 --> 00:29:49,350 does not have to be what we're doing here. I feel a university 488 00:29:49,350 --> 00:29:55,800 professor who is puts his lectures on a feed that's a 489 00:29:55,800 --> 00:30:01,530 podcast and I'm a little perturbed by And I think you 490 00:30:01,530 --> 00:30:04,950 don't even agree with me. But I think a podcast doesn't have to 491 00:30:04,950 --> 00:30:09,000 be a show. It can be really something functional. It can be 492 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,330 a book, it could be an album, it can be so many different things. 493 00:30:12,330 --> 00:30:16,140 We're stuck in a rut. With that with the terminology. 494 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:22,440 Our plugin supports audio PDF video, because we know that the 495 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,330 enclosure can be anything. 496 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:29,850 Correct? Correct. So the so the, the issue is, you know, that I 497 00:30:29,850 --> 00:30:32,790 think the term podcasting is what throws everybody off 498 00:30:32,790 --> 00:30:37,440 because the act of what people understand podcasting to be not 499 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:43,680 the technical system, the act of what people mean. So you could, 500 00:30:43,710 --> 00:30:50,070 you could arguably say, because Dave, was putting this one local 501 00:30:50,100 --> 00:30:55,020 public radio show onto his, onto a feed with enclosures. And he 502 00:30:55,020 --> 00:30:58,740 was doing this before there was an iPod. So also not a podcast. 503 00:30:59,340 --> 00:31:03,000 You know, it was a radio show, put in a feed with enclosures 504 00:31:03,090 --> 00:31:05,940 does not get credited as the first podcast because there was 505 00:31:05,940 --> 00:31:11,850 no iPod. So it's really semantics as to what when it was 506 00:31:11,850 --> 00:31:15,600 invented, when it when it happened. What I take credit for 507 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:19,800 is coming up with the idea of the subscription with a delay. 508 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,620 And at the time, it was necessary, because we didn't 509 00:31:22,620 --> 00:31:26,250 have the bandwidth. Now, it really only functions. Thank 510 00:31:26,250 --> 00:31:31,500 goodness, as an open protocol for people to organize podcast 511 00:31:31,500 --> 00:31:35,220 and I'm and that has turned out to be a very, very valuable 512 00:31:35,670 --> 00:31:36,180 tool. 513 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,050 Well, happy then to the 21st year in podcasting. 514 00:31:41,370 --> 00:31:43,440 So no, to me worse, 515 00:31:43,500 --> 00:31:45,090 it's worse than it appears. Yeah, 516 00:31:45,090 --> 00:31:47,280 there's there's no date. You know, that's what I'm saying. 517 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:51,960 There's no right. And, to me, podcasting 2.0 we know when that 518 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:52,470 started, 519 00:31:53,100 --> 00:31:56,220 right. I consider it a badge of honor to be chastised. But 520 00:31:56,220 --> 00:31:59,130 they've learned how to not use this software or how to not 521 00:31:59,130 --> 00:31:59,850 program yourself 522 00:31:59,850 --> 00:32:02,430 or it was the start of an interesting relationship. 523 00:32:05,220 --> 00:32:09,510 I don't know if there's actually a great agreed upon definition 524 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:11,310 of podcast and no, 525 00:32:11,310 --> 00:32:14,730 there is not there is not like and that and that's my beef is 526 00:32:14,730 --> 00:32:19,080 like I and part of my it's not in our mission statement, which 527 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,140 is preserved podcasting as platform for free speech and 528 00:32:22,140 --> 00:32:25,920 retool podcasting as a platform of value for all. But when you 529 00:32:25,950 --> 00:32:31,170 start a podcast to date, you still are not really official, 530 00:32:31,230 --> 00:32:37,530 and you're not a podcast until Apple has approved you. And that 531 00:32:37,530 --> 00:32:40,650 part I didn't ever really focused on. But now it just 532 00:32:40,650 --> 00:32:44,730 really pisses me off. Anybody should be able to build a feed 533 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:49,260 right now have it in all apps in 10 minutes. That's the way it 534 00:32:49,260 --> 00:32:53,760 should be. And that means that it can be Why isn't it a 535 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,720 reporter? A reporter who does uploading little bits, you know 536 00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:01,050 that everybody can, can can you know, it's very easy. It's very 537 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,540 efficient system like, Okay, I got a new feed, boom, here we 538 00:33:03,540 --> 00:33:06,150 go. here's, here's my interviews that coming down the pipe and 539 00:33:06,150 --> 00:33:07,200 just publish them that way. 540 00:33:08,610 --> 00:33:12,510 Blueberry, blueberry has a directory. And What do y'all 541 00:33:12,630 --> 00:33:15,750 consider? Like, how do y'all get your feeds? Or how do you vet 542 00:33:15,750 --> 00:33:17,760 them and say, Okay, this is something we will put in the 543 00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:20,700 directory. They're in, let me give you more detail on what I'm 544 00:33:20,700 --> 00:33:25,050 saying. Because we what I constantly trying to find this, 545 00:33:25,170 --> 00:33:28,170 there's this continuum between what you would call a podcast 546 00:33:28,170 --> 00:33:32,850 feed, and what's just plain RSS. And so is it a podcast feed if 547 00:33:32,850 --> 00:33:39,660 an enclosure only shows up once every 75 posts? Or is it? I 548 00:33:39,660 --> 00:33:41,610 mean, like, I, I'm not 549 00:33:41,730 --> 00:33:45,690 sure when as long as enclosures in the we don't up because we're 550 00:33:45,690 --> 00:33:49,890 doing a podcast directory, we only show the posts that contain 551 00:33:49,890 --> 00:33:53,580 an enclosure. But yeah, it could be 75 in between 75 posts, and 552 00:33:53,580 --> 00:33:55,020 we will still update 553 00:33:56,340 --> 00:33:58,260 as long as the closure. 554 00:33:59,610 --> 00:34:04,860 This is the thing that I'm so sad about is that we have this 555 00:34:04,860 --> 00:34:10,170 beautiful system, everything's in place. It's a beautiful API. 556 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:15,000 Anybody can create an app that talks to this. I mean, even if I 557 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,460 really set my mind to it, I'm sure I could steal enough 558 00:34:17,460 --> 00:34:21,330 frameworks and codes to get something working. But everyone 559 00:34:21,330 --> 00:34:25,200 is stuck in the same show mentality. Where is my 560 00:34:25,350 --> 00:34:27,090 university lecture app? 561 00:34:28,049 --> 00:34:30,209 Let's say that I don't have a problem like that's fine. 562 00:34:30,299 --> 00:34:31,349 Nobody. No one 563 00:34:31,350 --> 00:34:34,470 does it. No one does it. It we're still working in the words 564 00:34:34,470 --> 00:34:38,790 of and for obvious reasons of broadcasting. I have a show. 565 00:34:38,910 --> 00:34:42,540 There's so much opportunity out there. It doesn't have to be 566 00:34:42,990 --> 00:34:47,010 everything the apps the way the hosting companies function. It's 567 00:34:47,010 --> 00:34:50,940 all built around the concept the words that you see are making 568 00:34:50,940 --> 00:34:54,480 you build a an entertainment or information show not 569 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:59,730 necessarily. An information feed with items in there that can be 570 00:34:59,730 --> 00:35:00,660 destroyed. Did this way 571 00:35:00,660 --> 00:35:04,710 does that make sense? Yeah. But Adam, just so you know, we do we 572 00:35:04,710 --> 00:35:08,640 do update if someone's got a PDF, it's not, we follow the 573 00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:09,600 letter of the law, but 574 00:35:11,010 --> 00:35:13,710 you're missing my point. It's the interface that you use to 575 00:35:13,710 --> 00:35:17,430 create the tools. The interface you use to, to listen to 576 00:35:17,430 --> 00:35:23,520 podcasts is geared towards a Joe Rogan NPR show type of model. 577 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:27,960 And that's what it's portraying. It's never I mean, okay, we'll 578 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:32,430 take your PDF example, there could be an app that uses all 579 00:35:32,430 --> 00:35:35,340 the functionality of podcasting, that only displays and has 580 00:35:35,340 --> 00:35:41,670 searchable. Or let's say it has feeds of medical studies that 581 00:35:41,670 --> 00:35:45,930 are PDFs. Because no one builds an app for it. No one thinks of 582 00:35:45,930 --> 00:35:48,660 it. So the content is never created, where it's such a 583 00:35:48,660 --> 00:35:52,500 beautiful kancil culture proof system. 584 00:35:53,070 --> 00:35:57,450 Right? They feed readers back in the day for blogs, it's the same 585 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,720 sort of idea except for you're using an enclosure rather than 586 00:36:00,720 --> 00:36:02,430 just the text of the RSS. 587 00:36:02,460 --> 00:36:07,980 Exactly. And that was killed off by Google. Why? Well, obviously, 588 00:36:08,010 --> 00:36:11,280 they have they want to own your feed, everything is a feed these 589 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,490 days, Twitter or Facebook, everything's a feed. 590 00:36:15,180 --> 00:36:17,970 When we tell people that they can put other other things 591 00:36:17,970 --> 00:36:21,930 besides audio in their feeds, they're blown away. Most people 592 00:36:21,930 --> 00:36:25,650 don't know. You know, they don't even know they can do video 593 00:36:25,650 --> 00:36:27,690 podcasts, you know, and I can get that, 594 00:36:28,410 --> 00:36:32,640 too. This is another one for me. It's like, holy crap. Everyone's 595 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:36,300 app will do almost everyone's app does video. But do you know 596 00:36:36,300 --> 00:36:39,540 how many people are coming to me saying I wouldn't be able to do 597 00:36:39,540 --> 00:36:44,430 video? Like it works right now. Yeah, but that's podcast. So the 598 00:36:44,430 --> 00:36:48,750 words are important. If you want to have a have a video site, you 599 00:36:48,750 --> 00:36:54,660 got to build it with the YouTube rumble Vimeo type language. And 600 00:36:54,660 --> 00:36:54,960 well, there's 601 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,950 apps out there, you know, a lot of these new, newer commercial 602 00:36:58,980 --> 00:37:01,170 podcast apps don't do video, 603 00:37:01,410 --> 00:37:04,740 right? Well, oh, my goodness, there's an even better reason to 604 00:37:04,740 --> 00:37:09,180 do it. What the heck people? And we're streaming a web app easy. 605 00:37:11,010 --> 00:37:12,840 He said, with his developer hat on. 606 00:37:14,070 --> 00:37:16,440 And then and then I'll throw the business owner hat on when I 607 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,810 tell them that's probably going to cost them more, because 608 00:37:18,810 --> 00:37:23,760 that's true bandwidth, you know, hardly use it. Was it true? Now, 609 00:37:23,850 --> 00:37:26,430 I know you got a solution for that. But you know, there is 610 00:37:27,720 --> 00:37:30,180 there is a cost, you know, because of that bandwidth. No, 611 00:37:30,180 --> 00:37:31,440 you walked into my trap. That's 612 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:35,310 not ideal solutions, you walked into it. So ipfs, the 613 00:37:35,310 --> 00:37:38,580 interplanetary file system, this thing has been in my life. I 614 00:37:38,580 --> 00:37:42,240 think for eight years, we've had Dave and I've been playing with 615 00:37:42,240 --> 00:37:47,220 it way before podcast index. And we've seen it work, we 616 00:37:47,220 --> 00:37:51,240 understand how it works. Now we had a some it came back on the 617 00:37:51,240 --> 00:37:55,500 radar, even though it's been discussed at podcast index dot 618 00:37:55,500 --> 00:37:57,780 social for a while came back on the radar with the brave 619 00:37:57,810 --> 00:38:03,510 integration of ipfs. So you can just use the ipfs hash, and it 620 00:38:03,510 --> 00:38:11,670 will find the file. So ipfs has not never really picked up in 621 00:38:11,670 --> 00:38:18,000 the mainstream. And and I think it's for business reasons, I'm 622 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:24,840 not sure. But when I look at ipfs, and think, wow, what can 623 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:33,630 we do with the hosting companies to either a, lower your cost by 624 00:38:33,630 --> 00:38:41,820 distributing the load. B gives you more things that you can 625 00:38:41,820 --> 00:38:47,070 offer your customers or see both? Because it feels to me 626 00:38:47,070 --> 00:38:50,730 like it's possible. And I wonder if you've looked at the use case 627 00:38:50,730 --> 00:38:52,920 and what you've come up with, from your standpoint, 628 00:38:53,490 --> 00:38:56,340 I just brought the website up. And I'll be honest with anything 629 00:38:56,340 --> 00:39:01,320 that will allow me to not have to pay my bandwidth bill via a 630 00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:05,160 bank transfer versus a credit card gets my attention. So you 631 00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:08,640 know, but if we also think about IP Fs, I'm going to investigate 632 00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,270 it. I have I don't know anything about it until now. But Adam, we 633 00:39:12,270 --> 00:39:15,330 used to do our podcast situation via BitTorrent too. 634 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,380 And I still have a bit torrents of my shows published and and 635 00:39:19,380 --> 00:39:24,510 this comes down to my next question, which is really 636 00:39:24,510 --> 00:39:28,980 something I've seen being brought up for over a decade. 637 00:39:29,310 --> 00:39:32,040 And I've never seen a resolution are understood. And I don't know 638 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,470 if it's just something someone needs to kick it over and do it. 639 00:39:35,610 --> 00:39:42,750 How do we handle the concept of multiple enclosures? If I Yeah, 640 00:39:42,780 --> 00:39:46,200 well, this this is the big question. And I and maybe I can 641 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:52,800 be maybe I can be an arbiter somehow. But why, why is this 642 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:58,200 not universally done? It's hard. It's hard. 643 00:39:58,260 --> 00:40:01,380 It's hard for the it's hard for the app. I think I have an 644 00:40:01,380 --> 00:40:03,750 answer to that. Because like, okay, for instance, when we 645 00:40:03,750 --> 00:40:08,280 wrote the freedom controller, I, I gave it support from the very 646 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:10,530 beginning for multiple enclosures, even though I think 647 00:40:10,530 --> 00:40:12,810 Weiner said it's not, I think he's always said that that was 648 00:40:12,810 --> 00:40:13,800 not part of the spec. And 649 00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:16,320 he's always said namespace. 650 00:40:16,770 --> 00:40:20,580 Yeah. And so but but I read the spec over and over again, and I 651 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:23,910 just couldn't see where it didn't allow it in the language. 652 00:40:24,150 --> 00:40:27,390 So I said, well, we'll support enclosure, multiple enclosures 653 00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:30,600 on the on the aggregator side, and then we'll also support it 654 00:40:30,630 --> 00:40:35,190 on the production side. And for for just a river of news, it 655 00:40:35,190 --> 00:40:41,160 works fine. But on a podcast app, it gets, it can get a 656 00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:44,940 little wonky. And I think people just not sure how to handle 657 00:40:44,970 --> 00:40:45,690 well. 658 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,990 What am I getting a lot of the pod catchers is if you have 659 00:40:48,990 --> 00:40:52,800 multiple enclosures, some of them will pick the first one, 660 00:40:53,070 --> 00:40:55,860 some of them will pick the second one or the last one. 661 00:40:56,130 --> 00:40:59,730 That's never you can never know know what, you know, the app 662 00:40:59,730 --> 00:41:01,260 itself is going to pull. 663 00:41:01,590 --> 00:41:04,830 And when we when we say that, Mike, do you really mean you 664 00:41:04,830 --> 00:41:06,720 don't know what Apple's App is going to do? 665 00:41:07,500 --> 00:41:10,290 Well, it could be, you know, apple, or whatever Apple is, 666 00:41:10,290 --> 00:41:14,100 does the first one, I think cuz there's multiples. But yeah, I 667 00:41:14,100 --> 00:41:17,100 get that all the time. You know, people have these feeds they 668 00:41:17,100 --> 00:41:21,630 create, and they have, you know, an mp3 file and a photo and 669 00:41:21,630 --> 00:41:25,980 something else in it. And it works on some apps and doesn't 670 00:41:25,980 --> 00:41:28,950 work on others or totally crashes some apps, 671 00:41:29,190 --> 00:41:31,500 personally, and I'll say blueberry has multiple 672 00:41:31,530 --> 00:41:34,500 enclosures support, like you can put multiple in the same feed 673 00:41:34,500 --> 00:41:38,010 item like episode No, we don't support that. And that was a 674 00:41:38,010 --> 00:41:42,510 decision that we made because of basically following what 675 00:41:42,510 --> 00:41:45,180 everyone else was doing, you know, Apple and everyone else so 676 00:41:45,180 --> 00:41:48,420 we, you know, we had to build, I guess for a better reason to 677 00:41:48,420 --> 00:41:50,820 make sure that you know, podcasters episodes we're 678 00:41:50,820 --> 00:41:54,090 getting into into the various directories but at the same 679 00:41:54,090 --> 00:41:58,710 point, I'm of the opinion and probably be opposite of your 680 00:41:58,710 --> 00:42:02,970 guys's is that, I think multiple enclosures in a single RSS feed 681 00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:08,040 or single episode item is bad. And the reason I think that is I 682 00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:11,040 like to be able to brand my content differently between 683 00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:13,620 video and audio or any other content. So I want separate 684 00:42:13,620 --> 00:42:17,610 beats now. I could do both, I guess. But I think Adam, this 685 00:42:17,610 --> 00:42:20,430 argument was going on in Oh, 506. And he 686 00:42:20,430 --> 00:42:25,590 was he was and and I'm going to side with Dave Winer on this 687 00:42:25,590 --> 00:42:30,960 one, because I witnessed that, that close up, and I, I want to 688 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:37,140 respect what he what he did and did not want to know that. There 689 00:42:37,140 --> 00:42:39,240 were because they were well, there's another thing that was 690 00:42:39,240 --> 00:42:42,000 going on then but to me. 691 00:42:43,980 --> 00:42:49,470 Ah, was he a poor single? Or was he okay? But no single single. 692 00:42:49,470 --> 00:42:49,710 And he 693 00:42:49,710 --> 00:42:52,470 says if you want to, if you want to do more, there were there 694 00:42:52,470 --> 00:42:56,430 were two arguments at the time. One was the multiple enclosures 695 00:42:56,430 --> 00:42:59,910 and the other was where the shownotes go, which he also said 696 00:42:59,970 --> 00:43:06,000 namespace. Yeah. And so for me, I want to respect that because 697 00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:12,360 we know technically we know what to do. To me, I see a much 698 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:17,310 bigger picture. And here would be my he would be my example. 699 00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:25,410 And I'm just going to use ipfs because I because it works. So 700 00:43:25,410 --> 00:43:30,420 you have in the namespace and ipfs enclosure, hash. Wait, 701 00:43:30,420 --> 00:43:30,840 wait, wait, wait. 702 00:43:30,870 --> 00:43:33,840 He needs some namespace talk to me. We're talking about 703 00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:34,740 namespaces Oh my 704 00:43:34,740 --> 00:43:36,450 god, I'm so sorry. What do 705 00:43:37,530 --> 00:43:42,930 now it's time for? Nah. Oh, yeah. I 706 00:43:42,930 --> 00:43:44,220 want to add something 707 00:43:44,220 --> 00:43:45,510 to your namespace baby. 708 00:43:45,750 --> 00:43:46,710 Give him a cigarette. 709 00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:50,940 Yeah, baby. 710 00:43:53,190 --> 00:43:57,180 I would have an ipfs tag, it would be the hash for an 711 00:43:57,180 --> 00:44:03,390 enclosure. And that would, I would say be something that 712 00:44:03,390 --> 00:44:08,010 would be a follow up to the value for value payments being 713 00:44:08,010 --> 00:44:13,110 integrated to the way I see it. If I have a podcast app that 714 00:44:13,110 --> 00:44:22,170 supports both payments and ipfs. I would consider getting a piece 715 00:44:22,170 --> 00:44:26,730 of the action based upon me also hosting the file. And maybe that 716 00:44:26,730 --> 00:44:28,500 happens in the app I'm using. 717 00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,690 Oh pay? Yeah, you're paying for her. Yeah, you're allowing 718 00:44:33,690 --> 00:44:36,480 anybody to be at anybody to host that content. Yeah. 719 00:44:36,510 --> 00:44:39,870 So unfortunate for you. Yes. So I'm so I'm, I'm conflict 720 00:44:39,870 --> 00:44:45,960 relating to things. But to me in general, the ipfs as an 721 00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:49,980 enclosure, to me, it seems like throw that in the namespace 722 00:44:49,980 --> 00:44:52,620 because otherwise we're just going to argue for 10 more years 723 00:44:52,620 --> 00:44:55,350 and Apple's not going to do it. No one's going to do it and look 724 00:44:55,350 --> 00:45:01,080 how far we've gotten just by putting in one one shunt really, 725 00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:05,160 which is podcaster wallet comm you know, the shunt waiting for 726 00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:09,120 people like on a blueberry to add stuff to their, to their 727 00:45:09,120 --> 00:45:13,980 authoring tools before people can add data into their feed? 728 00:45:14,460 --> 00:45:17,670 Why would we do exactly the same with ipfs? It's going to be a 729 00:45:17,670 --> 00:45:20,550 small group. Anyway, that's testing it initially. But I 730 00:45:20,550 --> 00:45:24,900 think, again, here's a use case that we can present at scale to 731 00:45:24,900 --> 00:45:26,580 the ipfs. community. 732 00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:32,400 I like it, it decouples the tool and it decouples the tools from 733 00:45:32,820 --> 00:45:35,190 from the burden of doing the hosting, because I think the 734 00:45:35,190 --> 00:45:40,290 value of like, the value of blueberry and in podcast hosting 735 00:45:40,620 --> 00:45:44,670 is the is the tools that you bring. It's not the pie. I mean, 736 00:45:44,670 --> 00:45:48,300 because that's I agree. And you can, because anybody can just 737 00:45:48,540 --> 00:45:53,280 buy bandwidth and where it's mostly it's that the blueberry 738 00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:54,720 provides, however, 739 00:45:55,590 --> 00:45:57,150 however, however, 740 00:45:57,540 --> 00:45:58,830 and the consulting to go with it. 741 00:46:00,510 --> 00:46:04,410 We're very fortunate to have two guys in the business here. And I 742 00:46:04,410 --> 00:46:08,040 want to hear Todd with his business hat on, what are the 743 00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:12,030 downsides? Because I, I can one I think immediate is stats that 744 00:46:12,030 --> 00:46:13,650 may become an issue. Am I correct? 745 00:46:14,399 --> 00:46:18,989 stats may not? Well, there may be a way around the stats, but 746 00:46:18,989 --> 00:46:22,049 you're you know, then we're talking about? Well, there's two 747 00:46:22,049 --> 00:46:25,259 ways to do it to have some sort of redress reporting the carries 748 00:46:25,259 --> 00:46:30,869 along with that link, or some sort of ping back. But, you 749 00:46:30,869 --> 00:46:32,999 know, that's a whole nother lengthy discussion. 750 00:46:34,830 --> 00:46:37,950 How about how about in general, the concept of implementing 751 00:46:37,950 --> 00:46:41,970 something like this, which could theoretically lower your actual 752 00:46:42,690 --> 00:46:43,350 overhead? 753 00:46:43,890 --> 00:46:46,560 Yeah, that's, that's always something that I would I would 754 00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:49,740 definitely look at. Now, you know, here's the thing. We're 755 00:46:49,740 --> 00:46:51,840 just like any other company, I'm going to throw this over to 756 00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:55,800 Angelo, and he's gonna go, are you kidding? I can save you 757 00:46:55,800 --> 00:47:00,630 $10,000 a month in our $20,000 a month and bandwidth? Is this 758 00:47:00,630 --> 00:47:03,330 worth a month of dev time? And you know, that answer is 759 00:47:03,330 --> 00:47:07,320 probably yes. But, again, you can't just be the sole player in 760 00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:11,130 the block, you got to have wide adoption, in order to scale 761 00:47:11,130 --> 00:47:11,430 this. 762 00:47:11,940 --> 00:47:15,720 What do you think? And I'm glad you brought up Angela, because I 763 00:47:15,720 --> 00:47:19,020 appreciate him getting involved in the namespace on GitHub, but 764 00:47:19,020 --> 00:47:21,720 he's already he's already changed some directions on a few 765 00:47:21,720 --> 00:47:24,870 things that have been very helpful. And one of the things 766 00:47:24,870 --> 00:47:30,060 like from, you know, from that standpoint, you know, what, what 767 00:47:30,060 --> 00:47:35,490 do you when y'all when y'all decide to implement a tag? I 768 00:47:35,490 --> 00:47:37,830 know that for the most part, it's like, you got to figure out 769 00:47:37,830 --> 00:47:41,250 what's the, what's the balance? What's the trade off between 770 00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:43,860 spending all this time doing it? And how much bang for the buck 771 00:47:43,860 --> 00:47:47,010 is gonna have? Like, what? What's your thinking process on 772 00:47:47,010 --> 00:47:49,890 where to? So the reason I'm bringing this up is something 773 00:47:49,890 --> 00:47:54,630 like, there's a tech proposal that's not in, it's not been put 774 00:47:54,630 --> 00:47:57,990 into a phase yet. There's a tech proposal for something called 775 00:47:58,020 --> 00:48:02,400 alternate enclosure, which would allow you to have a allow you to 776 00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:05,850 have multiple enclosures, and some of them be low bandwidth 777 00:48:05,850 --> 00:48:08,280 versions and that kind of thing. I mean, like, when you see 778 00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:12,210 something like that, what, what's the thought process there 779 00:48:12,210 --> 00:48:15,060 about where to prioritize something like that on a 780 00:48:15,060 --> 00:48:15,690 roadmap? 781 00:48:16,140 --> 00:48:21,300 I think it really boils down to is who's paying our bills? 782 00:48:21,330 --> 00:48:24,420 podcasters. So what are we trying to do, we're trying to 783 00:48:24,420 --> 00:48:27,690 help podcasters we're trying to build things for them that will 784 00:48:27,690 --> 00:48:30,900 help them grow their show and grow their audiences. That's, 785 00:48:30,900 --> 00:48:33,870 that's our number one goal. Of course, we're provide tools to 786 00:48:33,870 --> 00:48:39,120 but I think that we have to look at, you know, I'm gonna throw a 787 00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:43,050 big word out there, we user personas, Every company has user 788 00:48:43,050 --> 00:48:45,930 personas, specific types of people that use your service. 789 00:48:46,290 --> 00:48:49,260 And then we have to say, well, this user persona use this or 790 00:48:49,260 --> 00:48:54,210 not, will it benefit them? Or, more importantly, has a 500 791 00:48:54,210 --> 00:48:56,610 people ask for this feature? Or have three 792 00:48:56,939 --> 00:49:01,199 that's gonna say, you know, is is you know, if we have a 793 00:49:01,199 --> 00:49:04,559 podcasters saying, hey, how come you haven't implemented that and 794 00:49:04,559 --> 00:49:08,129 I can prove that hey, we got a lot of customers or potential 795 00:49:08,129 --> 00:49:12,479 customers that want this that'll move it up in the stack. 796 00:49:13,980 --> 00:49:14,940 The moving up him? 797 00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:17,430 What a way that was hard. 798 00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:21,960 What would you say to your user persona? Is that no, some are 799 00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:24,690 more like corporate podcasting. What What is your sort of bread 800 00:49:24,690 --> 00:49:26,550 and butter? Oh, we, 801 00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:30,210 you know, bread and butter is people that own their own comms 802 00:49:30,210 --> 00:49:32,730 using WordPress with our powerpress plugin, you know that 803 00:49:32,730 --> 00:49:35,460 that is, that is one that's, you know, that's core. 804 00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:39,810 It's the guy sitting next to the water heater in the basement 805 00:49:39,810 --> 00:49:41,820 doing a show or doing a podcast that's 806 00:49:41,820 --> 00:49:45,540 true to an independent, independent podcasters largely 807 00:49:45,540 --> 00:49:48,690 businesses too, but mostly, you know, if you look at just the 808 00:49:48,690 --> 00:49:52,500 customer type or the podcaster type, it's it's a business guy, 809 00:49:52,500 --> 00:49:54,150 individual that has a website, 810 00:49:54,180 --> 00:49:59,100 tell me about the the pod press plug in, what functionality does 811 00:49:59,100 --> 00:50:03,090 it provide Does it tap into your API? Or is it creating the feed 812 00:50:03,090 --> 00:50:05,880 on its own? And just uploading that and the file to your 813 00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:07,920 servers? How does that interrupt? 814 00:50:08,490 --> 00:50:11,460 Yeah, power press will work standalone. Without us, they 815 00:50:11,460 --> 00:50:13,980 blueberry could turn the switch off today and power press but 816 00:50:13,980 --> 00:50:17,370 continuing work. But it is integrated so that if you're 817 00:50:17,370 --> 00:50:20,250 hosting with us, you can essentially upload your media 818 00:50:20,250 --> 00:50:25,050 file right within the podcast post in WordPress. And it's, you 819 00:50:25,050 --> 00:50:27,660 know, I always use the term create, upload and publish and 820 00:50:27,660 --> 00:50:32,310 you don't leave your own new basic, your own dashboard. But 821 00:50:32,340 --> 00:50:35,550 it does, it gets created an RSS feed form. So they have their 822 00:50:35,580 --> 00:50:39,390 own RSS feed, they're calm. There isn't there is API calls 823 00:50:39,390 --> 00:50:41,730 that go back and forth. And of course, stats integration. 824 00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:46,980 Okay, so there's the when they if I own a WordPress site, and a 825 00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:50,100 nice power press, I'm uploading the enclosure file to you guys. 826 00:50:50,100 --> 00:50:52,860 But then I'm everything else is being hosted locally on my 827 00:50:52,860 --> 00:50:56,520 domain, and then that, but then you also can do some stats off 828 00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:57,000 that too. 829 00:50:57,510 --> 00:51:00,510 With the disclaimer, if you don't want to host with us, you 830 00:51:00,510 --> 00:51:04,710 can drop an link in the you know, you can you can drop a 831 00:51:04,710 --> 00:51:08,220 media link in it as well and publish it agnostic. 832 00:51:08,670 --> 00:51:09,090 Yeah. 833 00:51:09,720 --> 00:51:11,940 Yes. I mean, that's, that's a great way to decentralize. 834 00:51:11,940 --> 00:51:14,640 Because I mean, that's, yeah, that's, that's great. 835 00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:18,420 And its power. Its power press, I don't see them on our apps 836 00:51:18,420 --> 00:51:20,760 page. Are they doing any of the namespace 837 00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:25,620 iMac packets in this current sprint lock is going in on this 838 00:51:25,710 --> 00:51:27,060 on this sprint. So so 839 00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:29,910 so let me ask you this, and I hope I'm not offending you. I'm 840 00:51:29,910 --> 00:51:32,940 just, you know, I have to ask you, because I, I've had 841 00:51:32,940 --> 00:51:39,540 businesses, so if you have power press and perhaps a cast apod 842 00:51:39,540 --> 00:51:42,420 and a couple others, and, and I can tell you the future that I 843 00:51:42,510 --> 00:51:46,320 that I personally see. But so what if power presses as an 844 00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:50,700 example? You know, there's a there's an alternate enclosure, 845 00:51:51,570 --> 00:51:56,820 they have ipfs, both their feed and, and ipfs works, you know, 846 00:51:56,820 --> 00:52:00,540 and it works with a number of apps, because it will there's 847 00:52:00,540 --> 00:52:03,780 always going to be a couple of devs, who will put it in? Does 848 00:52:03,780 --> 00:52:07,590 that threaten your business? Or do you have thoughts about how 849 00:52:07,590 --> 00:52:11,280 to you know what your USP is, in that case, towards those types 850 00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:12,090 of customers? 851 00:52:12,570 --> 00:52:15,660 I don't think that threatens our business. You know, again, we 852 00:52:15,660 --> 00:52:21,750 build tools podcasters need. So if ipva ipfs becomes a viable 853 00:52:22,170 --> 00:52:27,840 piece. And I don't see any law, we all again, we're going to 854 00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:31,350 talk about as a team. But at this same point, the alternate 855 00:52:31,350 --> 00:52:35,250 enclosure piece. Oh, you know, that one might be harder to get 856 00:52:35,250 --> 00:52:38,610 through the chop chain, because you know, we've been as long as 857 00:52:38,610 --> 00:52:42,030 it's in a different item, but it won't be Hmm, that's an 858 00:52:42,030 --> 00:52:45,540 interesting, after lunch, run that to the CPU a little bit. 859 00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:46,620 But 860 00:52:46,770 --> 00:52:49,920 I think I think that falls, that particular tag falls into the 861 00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:53,430 category of, you know, there's always the chicken and egg thing 862 00:52:53,430 --> 00:52:57,390 this, who implements the tag First, the podcast, the podcast 863 00:52:57,390 --> 00:53:03,720 app, or the Podcast Producer, and you're not some some tags. 864 00:53:04,230 --> 00:53:09,150 You you feel so confident in them, in their use case, that as 865 00:53:09,150 --> 00:53:12,840 an as an app, or excuse me, as a host, you say, Well, that makes 866 00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:17,640 a lot of sense. But then other tags, it's like, well, it may be 867 00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:21,720 a really good idea. But that's just not I'm just not sure I 868 00:53:21,720 --> 00:53:24,810 want to commit to that. And so you have, then you have to wait 869 00:53:24,930 --> 00:53:27,870 in that. And only then it becomes sort of an app first 870 00:53:27,870 --> 00:53:30,240 thing. So it's always like, well, is it gonna be chicken 871 00:53:30,240 --> 00:53:32,790 first or going to be egg first, I think it's different for every 872 00:53:32,790 --> 00:53:33,330 tag, 873 00:53:33,749 --> 00:53:37,559 I have a hard time prioritizing something for 3%. And 874 00:53:37,589 --> 00:53:43,559 unfortunately, 3% is what leads the way in developing new trends 875 00:53:43,559 --> 00:53:46,919 that the rest of the folks adopt. So you know, I, I'll 876 00:53:46,919 --> 00:53:49,529 either be on the train or off the train, and I'll be looking 877 00:53:49,529 --> 00:53:52,619 at the train leaving me going down the track. And I may be 878 00:53:52,619 --> 00:53:56,309 like, cussing at myself for not putting that as a dead priority. 879 00:53:56,309 --> 00:53:58,649 But it's a hard juggle really is 880 00:53:59,580 --> 00:54:04,830 very, very unique in that we also have three different feed 881 00:54:04,830 --> 00:54:10,350 generation systems. We got power press, we've got a traditional 882 00:54:10,470 --> 00:54:14,370 publisher system, just like you know, the rest of them. And then 883 00:54:14,370 --> 00:54:17,400 we also have a Feedburner replacement called podcasts 884 00:54:17,400 --> 00:54:21,000 mirror, which is another way to feed so we got to implement it 885 00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:22,020 in three places. 886 00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:23,940 Yeah, forgot about that. 887 00:54:24,570 --> 00:54:28,560 Did you and now what is the API? blueberry has an API. Can you do 888 00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:30,240 all of the functions through an API? 889 00:54:31,229 --> 00:54:34,649 You can do about 90% of the stuff through the API. There's 890 00:54:34,649 --> 00:54:38,309 publishing stats pulling all of them we've got a pretty robust 891 00:54:38,309 --> 00:54:41,879 API, including the directory has an API too. So 892 00:54:41,939 --> 00:54:48,269 if I were if I was Martin, Martin's one of my favorite 893 00:54:48,269 --> 00:54:51,419 developers, I'm hooked on the pod friend if I was Martin, or 894 00:54:51,419 --> 00:54:56,189 any one of our fabulous developers, this is how I would 895 00:54:56,189 --> 00:55:01,919 think and blueberry would fit in this scenario. perfectly. When I 896 00:55:01,919 --> 00:55:05,879 create a Word document, I do it in Microsoft Word, then I do all 897 00:55:05,879 --> 00:55:09,209 my formatting and whatever. And then I save it. And then I send 898 00:55:09,209 --> 00:55:13,109 that file. And many cases, you can do it interactively, you can 899 00:55:13,109 --> 00:55:16,559 share it, but I send that file to Dave, Dave opens it in word 900 00:55:16,559 --> 00:55:22,619 or a, something that understands word. And, and you know, he can 901 00:55:22,679 --> 00:55:26,609 enjoy that and, and read it as I created it. And you can even 902 00:55:26,609 --> 00:55:31,349 change it and save it any way he wants. I would have a podcast 903 00:55:31,349 --> 00:55:37,079 app that allows the podcaster to use the same interface. I know 904 00:55:37,079 --> 00:55:40,499 how crazy it sounds, but use the same app that I'm creating my 905 00:55:40,499 --> 00:55:44,159 podcast ID, and why wouldn't I be able to talk to me? 906 00:55:44,219 --> 00:55:47,909 Technically I can. I can get an account with with blueberry and 907 00:55:47,909 --> 00:55:50,819 then just say I'm with blueberry. And this app could be 908 00:55:50,819 --> 00:55:58,049 my it could be my wiziwig huh. podcast editor, because I would 909 00:55:58,049 --> 00:56:03,509 see how everything looks I see. Okay. The preview function, of 910 00:56:03,509 --> 00:56:07,349 course, and I can. Alright, I see my transcripts showing the 911 00:56:07,349 --> 00:56:10,469 images are working in the chapter files. I got everything 912 00:56:10,469 --> 00:56:13,019 all set up. Go done one AP. 913 00:56:14,430 --> 00:56:17,910 And we have Yeah, go ahead. And we we do have some folks that 914 00:56:17,910 --> 00:56:21,540 have integrated with us Hindenburg, basically. And they 915 00:56:21,540 --> 00:56:22,440 do a very basic and 916 00:56:22,860 --> 00:56:24,870 they save Hindenburg. So I can do that straight 917 00:56:24,870 --> 00:56:27,960 from Hindenburg. Yeah, they can set you can send the audio file 918 00:56:27,990 --> 00:56:31,950 created directly to our to our platform. So you can't do 919 00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:36,030 publishing but you can send that media file to us and skip this 920 00:56:36,210 --> 00:56:38,400 step of uploading it. Hindenburg does that 921 00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:42,450 thing is cool, because you have that idea is neat, because then 922 00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:46,260 you see it with hyper catcher, you're you have exactly, 923 00:56:46,620 --> 00:56:49,920 yeah, you're you're creating the chapters, you creating the 924 00:56:49,920 --> 00:56:53,670 chapters in the same app that you listen to. Yeah, the next 925 00:56:53,670 --> 00:56:56,880 step, the next step for him is that you can approve those 926 00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:59,820 chapters in the app as well, instead of going to a back end, 927 00:57:00,510 --> 00:57:05,070 that that's, you know, ink anchors. whole model is you can 928 00:57:05,160 --> 00:57:07,890 download your download the app and you can record on your 929 00:57:07,890 --> 00:57:10,920 phone, and just upload it straight to your to your, you 930 00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:14,190 know, to your profile to your hosting account. Just like that 931 00:57:14,190 --> 00:57:17,010 would be if somebody could do that with blueberry as well. If 932 00:57:17,010 --> 00:57:20,040 you had a you know, let's just say hyper catcher integrated 933 00:57:20,040 --> 00:57:23,130 with blueberry record on your phone and upload straight to 934 00:57:23,130 --> 00:57:25,620 your blueberry account. You're doing it in the same app. He 935 00:57:25,620 --> 00:57:26,250 never Yeah, 936 00:57:26,250 --> 00:57:29,040 podcast app. And you could actually if someone does to 937 00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:31,350 interface so yeah, she published right there just hit Publish. 938 00:57:31,350 --> 00:57:32,370 And it's it's live. 939 00:57:32,850 --> 00:57:37,080 Now the danger there, of course, is that if ipfs catches on, then 940 00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:41,820 you might have 15 competitors overnight who have file storage 941 00:57:41,820 --> 00:57:43,710 built into their tool. 942 00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:49,110 Yeah, but that you already support like, y'all already 943 00:57:49,110 --> 00:57:52,950 supported bit torn. So you know, and that that was it. Because 944 00:57:52,950 --> 00:57:56,400 it's interesting to be about the tools in the in the in the user 945 00:57:56,400 --> 00:58:00,510 experience more so than just what Rob Bly who hosts the file? 946 00:58:00,540 --> 00:58:03,960 Yeah, that's a that's a good question. What what really are 947 00:58:03,960 --> 00:58:07,350 the main features of a podcast hosting company? And what what 948 00:58:07,350 --> 00:58:10,680 do people respond to when you do your marketing? And what do they 949 00:58:10,680 --> 00:58:13,620 come to you for? Or what are the features that they want? 950 00:58:15,330 --> 00:58:19,110 Well, that's what we build to, you know, and, you know, and 951 00:58:19,110 --> 00:58:22,710 it's all about serving that that customer need. And you know, our 952 00:58:22,710 --> 00:58:25,590 marketing, our marketing pitch is not much different than any 953 00:58:25,590 --> 00:58:28,320 other podcast hosts. We provide podcasts hosting with tools and 954 00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:31,530 services to publish and distribute your show along with 955 00:58:31,920 --> 00:58:34,170 giving them the ability to free WordPress site. There's the 956 00:58:34,170 --> 00:58:36,300 pitch, you know, I can get a 30 day free trial, blah, blah, 957 00:58:36,300 --> 00:58:36,900 blah, you 958 00:58:36,900 --> 00:58:39,840 also do your you do your consultation, which I think is 959 00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:42,180 right, should not underestimate that's a big part of it, is 960 00:58:42,180 --> 00:58:45,930 it not? Yeah. And of course we talk and you know, nothing is 961 00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:49,560 also that's kind of special about our tools. We build in 962 00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:52,710 network tools. So podcasters are building networks. They can 963 00:58:52,710 --> 00:58:56,460 build a network, right? Cool. We've got sites that are running 964 00:58:56,460 --> 00:59:00,270 600 podcasts on a single word. Imagine I don't know what kind 965 00:59:00,270 --> 00:59:02,640 of a beast of a server that's running. I didn't know that 966 00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:06,300 sounds pretty cool. It is cool. And they're using taxonomy. So 967 00:59:06,390 --> 00:59:12,660 hey, Mike, as customer support, can I change your title? Yeah. 968 00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:14,460 How about 969 00:59:15,630 --> 00:59:21,570 you got a VP you get a VP title. SPP instead of Customer Support 970 00:59:21,570 --> 00:59:25,020 Manager. How about customer success affiliate? 971 00:59:26,310 --> 00:59:32,460 Oh, let's just not do the Ninja and Sherpa crap and you know, 972 00:59:33,270 --> 00:59:35,370 customer success affiliate. 973 00:59:37,080 --> 00:59:39,900 So Adam, we got sidetracked earlier. Did you want to know 974 00:59:39,900 --> 00:59:42,450 the origin story of blueberry? How they got the name? Of 975 00:59:42,450 --> 00:59:47,820 course, of course. So So Rob was had this basically had a phrase. 976 00:59:47,850 --> 00:59:51,870 So Rob always knew organic media. So when podcasts or news 977 00:59:51,870 --> 00:59:55,770 a website failed, we were sitting in a resort in Chicago 978 00:59:55,800 --> 01:00:01,920 in February. Yes, that's a great retreat. Yeah, great retreat 979 01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:06,150 sitting around trying to decide what this new site was going to 980 01:00:06,150 --> 01:00:09,330 be called. And I don't know how he got on it. It was that during 981 01:00:09,330 --> 01:00:12,600 the.com era when no one was using vowels and pressure, 982 01:00:13,170 --> 01:00:16,080 somehow transferred to blueberry and that's how, because you 983 01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:19,020 remember, right in those early days, you couldn't use the word 984 01:00:19,020 --> 01:00:21,780 podcast without worried about getting sued. We would call 985 01:00:21,780 --> 01:00:24,900 ourselves a podcast hosting company. No one. 986 01:00:25,170 --> 01:00:27,360 No one ever no one ever got sued over did they 987 01:00:27,510 --> 01:00:30,120 know they did it? Do you know, but there are some apps that 988 01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:32,340 have gotten some heat. So that's where we were worried about 989 01:00:32,340 --> 01:00:36,270 using podcasts in the name. It's all dumb now, but that was what 990 01:00:36,270 --> 01:00:36,900 was going on. 991 01:00:37,860 --> 01:00:41,490 And didn't we did we have a we have raspberry with Nui 992 01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:44,070 Oh yeah, we had all plans from Africa. We still have those 993 01:00:44,070 --> 01:00:47,670 domains raspberry. We're gonna put like, you know, super 994 01:00:47,670 --> 01:00:50,130 celebrities like add them on and different people like that. It 995 01:00:50,130 --> 01:00:51,420 was all kinds of crazy ideas. 996 01:00:52,650 --> 01:00:57,420 Yeah, I remember the day when when we were doing Dave liner's 997 01:00:57,450 --> 01:01:02,100 world outline. I remember, I fired up the site to clone that 998 01:01:02,100 --> 01:01:07,590 over and it was w RLD. Outline, he just he just dropped the 999 01:01:07,590 --> 01:01:10,590 vowel and your, your web your web 2.0 1000 01:01:10,620 --> 01:01:13,260 That's right, and put a.io after it and you're really grueling. 1001 01:01:13,470 --> 01:01:15,750 Oh, yeah. Yeah, then you get VC money. 1002 01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:21,870 You guys do some advertising services as well. 1003 01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:27,480 It's not a primary part of our business. But we do. Deals come 1004 01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:31,170 in, you know, we get emails all the time and RFPs respond to 1005 01:01:31,170 --> 01:01:37,230 them and but tell you, Adam, that 90% of podcasters today 1006 01:01:37,230 --> 01:01:39,870 store and get any advertising. Is it 00 I 1007 01:01:40,290 --> 01:01:42,930 wouldn't expect you to I wouldn't. It's like the promise 1008 01:01:42,930 --> 01:01:44,430 of blogs. It's the same thing. 1009 01:01:44,670 --> 01:01:47,940 Chelsea and Chelsea that verge article about the about anchor 1010 01:01:47,970 --> 01:01:51,150 like almost all of their podcasters are getting a house 1011 01:01:51,150 --> 01:01:52,110 add money. 1012 01:01:52,380 --> 01:01:56,070 A grand eight grand for house ads. That's pretty interesting. 1013 01:01:56,340 --> 01:01:57,930 They're gonna stop that I heard 1014 01:01:58,140 --> 01:02:01,470 well, they'll have to eventually the bleeding dried. It's a weird 1015 01:02:01,470 --> 01:02:02,490 circular motion. 1016 01:02:03,090 --> 01:02:05,700 My Spotify is unlimited cash. Don't you know? Yeah. 1017 01:02:07,980 --> 01:02:09,720 Think the limit is is coming up. 1018 01:02:10,020 --> 01:02:11,400 Who's got the funky Bell? 1019 01:02:12,210 --> 01:02:13,710 That's me. Sorry. No, it's 1020 01:02:13,710 --> 01:02:16,590 okay. I just want I couldn't identify and it's like, Is it 1021 01:02:16,590 --> 01:02:17,790 this one? No, it's not. 1022 01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:21,990 You know, you would podcast 1023 01:02:21,990 --> 01:02:27,360 is when you hear bells ringing. So I get a tip for you. Maybe 1024 01:02:27,360 --> 01:02:29,790 more from Mike than for Todd. And we're for both of you. 1025 01:02:30,900 --> 01:02:36,000 Because I have a customer for you. Or a lot of customers like 1026 01:02:36,000 --> 01:02:40,560 this person I think will be coming. So Dana Brunetti. Never 1027 01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:46,950 heard of this name? DANA Brunetti is a Hollywood guy who 1028 01:02:46,950 --> 01:02:50,850 is anti Hollywood. And we got to know him through the no agenda 1029 01:02:50,850 --> 01:02:55,080 show is he's a executive producer, and kind of found that 1030 01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:58,530 because he put that credit on his IMDB page. And if you look 1031 01:02:58,530 --> 01:03:02,910 at Dana Brunetti his IMDB page, he's a producer of social 1032 01:03:02,910 --> 01:03:09,930 network of Captain Phillips, of House of Cards 50 shades of grey 1033 01:03:09,930 --> 01:03:15,150 and 50 shades of grey and 50,000 shades of some more gray. So he 1034 01:03:15,210 --> 01:03:19,560 he's had a lot of success. And he called me the other day. And 1035 01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:23,520 he said, Adam, I have an idea for podcasting. 2.0 and and I 1036 01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:28,500 want to know, is it possible today to use the chapters with 1037 01:03:28,500 --> 01:03:32,550 the images rotating like you've shown us in with no agenda and 1038 01:03:32,550 --> 01:03:37,140 podcasting 2.0 and mo facts and those shows? I said, Yeah, it's 1039 01:03:37,140 --> 01:03:41,520 okay, because we have a concept. And we think we'll be, you know, 1040 01:03:41,520 --> 01:03:45,990 producing several of these. And they, they kind of want to 1041 01:03:45,990 --> 01:03:50,610 become a production house for this type of mixed media 1042 01:03:50,610 --> 01:03:55,680 content. So I'm telling you this, because if you were to 1043 01:03:55,680 --> 01:03:59,070 focus on anything based upon customer demand, at least you 1044 01:03:59,070 --> 01:04:02,580 can be on the lookout for that if and when it cranks up. 1045 01:04:03,660 --> 01:04:08,910 You know, that chapters feature has me very interested. But I 1046 01:04:08,910 --> 01:04:11,970 look at this also as a podcaster. I don't have time to 1047 01:04:11,970 --> 01:04:16,680 do chapters. So how many? How many podcasters? I'm playing 1048 01:04:16,680 --> 01:04:19,020 devil's advocate a little bit here. How many podcasters have 1049 01:04:19,020 --> 01:04:20,730 time to put chapters in the show? 1050 01:04:21,450 --> 01:04:29,070 Well, that is depends on the system. So for for a Hollywood 1051 01:04:29,070 --> 01:04:32,580 guy who's producing stuff specifically, he'll take as long 1052 01:04:32,580 --> 01:04:37,620 as he needs because that's what he's doing. I personally do not 1053 01:04:37,620 --> 01:04:40,770 have time, enter the beautiful world of hyper catchers, 1054 01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:44,910 community chapters. And I think what this is the model as far as 1055 01:04:44,910 --> 01:04:49,350 I'm concerned, where you can have the community creating 1056 01:04:49,350 --> 01:04:53,490 chapter marks, all you have to do is go in, take a look and 1057 01:04:53,520 --> 01:04:56,370 approve, you know, the basic, basic moderation that that's 1058 01:04:56,370 --> 01:05:00,420 working today. And and in this case, I was also Able to 1059 01:05:00,420 --> 01:05:04,560 delegate that to Dred Scott, hello drab, who is doing the 1060 01:05:04,560 --> 01:05:09,270 chapters for this show as well? So that's kind of the beauty of 1061 01:05:09,270 --> 01:05:14,550 podcasting is there's always somebody look at, you know, look 1062 01:05:14,550 --> 01:05:19,080 at SoundCloud. You know, it's it's rarely the creator itself 1063 01:05:19,080 --> 01:05:21,600 who's putting shit on the timeline. It's the audience. So 1064 01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:26,460 I think that's that's where this feature is headed. So then what 1065 01:05:26,460 --> 01:05:28,950 I'm saying to you is I, maybe not maybe there's not a single 1066 01:05:28,950 --> 01:05:32,430 podcaster. But I do know one and one, one who has pretty big 1067 01:05:32,430 --> 01:05:34,680 influence. So just be on the lookout if more people start 1068 01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:35,370 looking for it. 1069 01:05:35,880 --> 01:05:40,110 So Adam does that community source chapters is real cool. 1070 01:05:40,560 --> 01:05:45,330 You're doing it? Does your feed then dynamically update? Yeah, 1071 01:05:45,330 --> 01:05:45,990 or how, 1072 01:05:46,050 --> 01:05:50,130 ooh, hold on a second. Let's do it. Again, just 1073 01:05:50,130 --> 01:05:51,780 make sure you understand how it works. 1074 01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:54,450 namespace. 1075 01:05:55,680 --> 01:05:59,010 Come over here to snuggle up. Let me show you how we do this 1076 01:05:59,010 --> 01:06:04,890 here. It's, it's in the in the namespace, the chapters file 1077 01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:09,300 calls for a URL to a JSON file. And so that JSON file can update 1078 01:06:09,300 --> 01:06:12,570 whenever it's ready to update flows right through the minute 1079 01:06:12,570 --> 01:06:16,440 someone loads the podcast, it is unbelievably beautiful to do 1080 01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:19,590 that. After the fact it is so cool. Play 1081 01:06:19,620 --> 01:06:22,350 that play that song again, that is a sexy name. 1082 01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:25,080 Integrate 1083 01:06:27,690 --> 01:06:31,860 namespace Come on Todd, stick it in the namespace. 1084 01:06:32,100 --> 01:06:34,560 Now that's that's good that that can be done that way. Because 1085 01:06:34,560 --> 01:06:37,530 that's the only way that people have time. I could have a 1086 01:06:37,620 --> 01:06:41,010 producer come in later. And spend an hour on that instead of 1087 01:06:41,010 --> 01:06:42,600 having to do it when I was producing. 1088 01:06:42,930 --> 01:06:45,390 Right. A lot of people there's a lot of podcasters that do it and 1089 01:06:45,390 --> 01:06:49,200 they bake it into the mp3, you know, in the in the hammock not 1090 01:06:49,200 --> 01:06:52,080 done. Yeah. And it's like, there's the only ones that those 1091 01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:53,970 I don't know how big a percentage that is, I could I 1092 01:06:53,970 --> 01:06:57,330 could name probably five off top my head that I know, they're 1093 01:06:57,630 --> 01:07:00,990 bigger podcasts. And they're also the guys that don't seem to 1094 01:07:00,990 --> 01:07:05,370 mind doing a lot of stuff in post. And, you know, but then 1095 01:07:05,370 --> 01:07:08,280 you get to your other, you know, most people are not gonna have 1096 01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:10,170 time to sit there and go through Oh, but here's the 1097 01:07:10,170 --> 01:07:12,930 here's the beauty Dave, and this is what the flow is so 1098 01:07:12,930 --> 01:07:16,260 phenomenal with hyper catcher, because drab was listening to 1099 01:07:16,260 --> 01:07:19,110 the show anyway. So we just listened to the show. And he 1100 01:07:19,110 --> 01:07:21,780 says, Oh, that's cute. And he just taps right on the app, he's 1101 01:07:21,780 --> 01:07:25,560 using click. And then he can write a little note or a 1102 01:07:25,560 --> 01:07:29,370 message, whatever it is title, the full title URL, and then he 1103 01:07:29,370 --> 01:07:32,820 goes into the back end. And then he'll either expand on them add 1104 01:07:32,820 --> 01:07:36,270 an image or whatever. But it's in real time while anyone's 1105 01:07:36,270 --> 01:07:42,840 listening they can create a chapter and and it's fun because 1106 01:07:43,710 --> 01:07:47,850 phone boy who does the no agenda quotes, he started using hyper 1107 01:07:47,850 --> 01:07:51,360 catcher to add things that he likes which go into his no 1108 01:07:51,360 --> 01:07:54,780 agenda, quotes, database, but now they're also in the chapter 1109 01:07:54,780 --> 01:07:58,920 timeline. So it becomes a really wealthy experience. 1110 01:07:59,249 --> 01:08:01,619 Yeah, you can see this it wants this show gets released, you'll 1111 01:08:01,619 --> 01:08:05,009 see like slowly over the period of, you know, a day or two, the 1112 01:08:05,009 --> 01:08:06,239 chapters will just get added. 1113 01:08:06,300 --> 01:08:11,940 And in pod friend in the episode, and this is Oh, my God. 1114 01:08:11,940 --> 01:08:17,070 Thank you, Martin. You go to the episode, and right there in the 1115 01:08:17,100 --> 01:08:21,660 transcript, which is another one of my favorite tags. You can 1116 01:08:21,660 --> 01:08:25,680 search. So when you say Hey, what did you say like I say on 1117 01:08:25,680 --> 01:08:29,700 Thursday, you go to the episode, you type in the search, boom, it 1118 01:08:29,700 --> 01:08:33,390 pulls out the transcript, which also clearly avidly 1119 01:08:34,199 --> 01:08:40,229 advocate for podcast listeners. You know, most didn't, I'm an 1120 01:08:40,229 --> 01:08:43,739 avid listener, but most of the time I bring it up on my phone, 1121 01:08:43,739 --> 01:08:46,799 I hit play, I stick the thing in my pocket, I'm not looking at my 1122 01:08:46,799 --> 01:08:49,649 device while I'm playing. So of course not see any of that 1123 01:08:49,649 --> 01:08:50,369 stuff. Of course, not 1124 01:08:50,370 --> 01:08:53,310 you that you've not been trained for this at all, there was no 1125 01:08:53,310 --> 01:08:54,810 reason to not tell 1126 01:08:54,809 --> 01:08:58,709 you when I'll tell you, when I pull it up, when I pull the my 1127 01:08:58,709 --> 01:09:02,699 phone out and look at it. I can always tell you know, the once 1128 01:09:02,729 --> 01:09:05,609 as a podcaster. And once you get used to the fact that you're 1129 01:09:05,609 --> 01:09:08,849 gonna have that stuff in there, you trigger your audience. 1130 01:09:08,849 --> 01:09:12,689 Exactly. And it's like you because I know, like if we if 1131 01:09:12,689 --> 01:09:17,099 something's funny gets said on the show, I know that I can 1132 01:09:17,099 --> 01:09:20,519 probably pull out the phone. And there may be some you know, 1133 01:09:20,549 --> 01:09:22,979 something about it on the chat because the chapter can contain 1134 01:09:22,979 --> 01:09:25,739 either text or a URL to a site, you know, we need to 1135 01:09:26,730 --> 01:09:28,650 we need to be able to trigger haptic 1136 01:09:29,430 --> 01:09:30,060 like there. 1137 01:09:32,550 --> 01:09:36,300 But that's exactly it. I have no agenda. When we're reviewing the 1138 01:09:36,300 --> 01:09:39,180 art. We'll talk about the art that didn't make it into the 1139 01:09:39,180 --> 01:09:43,800 album art competition. And that's rotating as we speak. So 1140 01:09:43,830 --> 01:09:49,080 the number one place people will see this. I guess with no with 1141 01:09:49,080 --> 01:09:54,420 hype when there's integration is CarPlay and Android Auto or 1142 01:09:54,420 --> 01:09:57,210 whatever it's called. Because you'll just you'll see it's flip 1143 01:09:57,300 --> 01:09:58,560 switch right on the screen. 1144 01:09:59,760 --> 01:10:04,710 You'll be to almost this this is just a way in my mind sin here 1145 01:10:04,710 --> 01:10:10,320 spending honestly. This is way to build engagement. It's a way 1146 01:10:10,320 --> 01:10:14,190 to build your sir. Yeah, people are gonna race to be the one to 1147 01:10:14,190 --> 01:10:18,000 submit something to get that call out on the show even gamify 1148 01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:21,030 this and say okay, the first five people that mentioned this, 1149 01:10:21,030 --> 01:10:24,810 you know gets a gift card or something more drips got 1150 01:10:24,900 --> 01:10:28,380 drip Scott does such a good job with our chapters that we put 1151 01:10:28,380 --> 01:10:32,490 him into the payment split, he now gets 5% every episode. 1152 01:10:33,030 --> 01:10:36,480 It's also hilarious. He's adding a third dimension. You know, 1153 01:10:36,480 --> 01:10:40,380 when when, the other day when we were talking about donations 1154 01:10:40,380 --> 01:10:43,050 being low, he put the sad puppy in, you know, it's like, oh, 1155 01:10:43,050 --> 01:10:46,830 man, he's just he added a punch line. Yeah, that's really 1156 01:10:46,830 --> 01:10:50,430 powerful. And, and if there's one thing I've heard over and 1157 01:10:50,430 --> 01:10:55,560 over again, we've got to get community, either comments or 1158 01:10:55,560 --> 01:11:01,080 chat or something where you can talk about the show cross app. 1159 01:11:01,650 --> 01:11:05,370 And I know it's coming. I know where it's coming from. But you 1160 01:11:05,370 --> 01:11:09,660 know, this is this is where podcasting is behind. That is 1161 01:11:09,660 --> 01:11:12,000 you know, the YouTube community and then we have clubhouse 1162 01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:14,880 which, by the way, I would not advise anybody don't build your 1163 01:11:14,880 --> 01:11:19,500 career on clubhouse. That's not gonna last clubhouse is gonna 1164 01:11:19,500 --> 01:11:21,510 get deep platformed 1165 01:11:23,340 --> 01:11:29,520 we have a running pool to see when they disappear. Can I get 1166 01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:30,180 in on that? 1167 01:11:31,980 --> 01:11:34,620 Not a blueberry internal pool. Just wait, no, no, no. 1168 01:11:35,550 --> 01:11:36,090 Blueberry. 1169 01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:42,450 I mean, like it to me. And I had a conversation with Sam Santhi 1170 01:11:42,450 --> 01:11:45,060 about this because he was talking about using club 1171 01:11:45,120 --> 01:11:47,400 clubhouse. And I was like, I just don't think it's gonna 1172 01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:51,360 survive beyond the exclusivity period. I mean, once if it's 1173 01:11:51,360 --> 01:11:54,330 only it's only people only want it right now. But it's like Ted 1174 01:11:54,330 --> 01:11:58,110 Talks. You know, it's it's exclusive. And it feels like 1175 01:11:58,110 --> 01:12:00,810 you're in, you know, you like you're getting access to the to 1176 01:12:00,810 --> 01:12:03,330 the private people. That goes 1177 01:12:05,310 --> 01:12:08,310 cancelable stuff going on there. Once you can speak freely, 1178 01:12:08,310 --> 01:12:10,290 somewhere it ends 1179 01:12:11,130 --> 01:12:15,360 instead of 500 rooms when there's 10,000 or 100,000. Then 1180 01:12:15,360 --> 01:12:16,680 they've got another issue as well. 1181 01:12:16,949 --> 01:12:19,109 Yeah. So yeah. Yeah, that's not cheap. 1182 01:12:19,110 --> 01:12:21,720 Well, there's that. Yeah, there's that? Yeah. 1183 01:12:25,319 --> 01:12:27,329 So 1184 01:12:27,360 --> 01:12:33,030 how much to buy? You guys? I know you're thinking about it. 1185 01:12:33,030 --> 01:12:35,220 So let's set a price. We're saving up. 1186 01:12:35,280 --> 01:12:35,850 You're saving. 1187 01:12:35,909 --> 01:12:36,689 You're saving up? 1188 01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:39,030 Well, we have a couple options at this point. So 1189 01:12:39,330 --> 01:12:43,560 you come to me with a decent seven figure number we can we 1190 01:12:43,560 --> 01:12:44,850 can have a great discussion. 1191 01:12:46,350 --> 01:12:48,870 Wouldn't you want to cash 1192 01:12:49,890 --> 01:12:50,490 figures you've 1193 01:12:50,489 --> 01:12:52,769 been doing this for so long? Wouldn't you want to cash out at 1194 01:12:52,769 --> 01:12:55,529 some point I'm and by the way, I mean that very sincerely. I 1195 01:12:55,529 --> 01:12:57,209 don't give a shit who you sell. Sure. I'm 1196 01:12:57,210 --> 01:13:02,130 just at any company you build is built to be acquired. So 1197 01:13:02,220 --> 01:13:03,330 Oh, that's interesting. 1198 01:13:03,630 --> 01:13:06,840 Yeah, any company build is built to be acquired. And you know, we 1199 01:13:06,840 --> 01:13:10,380 ever presented an offer. You know, one thing, I'll be honest 1200 01:13:10,470 --> 01:13:13,590 with you, though, I'm a little bit of a purist. We're gonna 1201 01:13:13,590 --> 01:13:17,130 make sure that if we ever do sell, it's going to be someone 1202 01:13:17,130 --> 01:13:18,720 that takes care of the independent podcaster. 1203 01:13:18,720 --> 01:13:23,010 community, we don't want to, we really have no independent 1204 01:13:23,010 --> 01:13:26,610 podcaster. So this is what the company was built on. So I've 1205 01:13:26,610 --> 01:13:30,750 got a real affinity towards that group. And I don't ever want 1206 01:13:30,750 --> 01:13:31,980 them to leave them hanging. 1207 01:13:34,230 --> 01:13:34,980 Fair enough. 1208 01:13:35,670 --> 01:13:39,510 Yeah, I can see, I think that's something that you may be unique 1209 01:13:39,510 --> 01:13:44,520 to the podcast. Hosting industry is, there's, of course, not all 1210 01:13:44,520 --> 01:13:47,400 of them. But the ones that have been around for a long time seem 1211 01:13:47,400 --> 01:13:53,040 to, like blueberry, seem to seem to have a more purist idea. It's 1212 01:13:53,040 --> 01:13:56,760 like, Well, I mean, because I think most of them, like you 1213 01:13:56,760 --> 01:13:59,820 guys are, were podcasters to begin with. So it's like, well, 1214 01:13:59,820 --> 01:14:02,910 I mean, we don't want to screw over, you know, the next 1215 01:14:03,060 --> 01:14:04,590 generation so to speak. 1216 01:14:06,690 --> 01:14:09,240 We're on the show, because we believe in open podcasting. 1217 01:14:09,690 --> 01:14:10,050 Yeah. 1218 01:14:11,159 --> 01:14:14,309 Well, it is a vow of poverty. And it is a struggle, and I 1219 01:14:14,309 --> 01:14:17,369 appreciate that because I know exactly what it takes. No, I do. 1220 01:14:17,429 --> 01:14:20,999 I mean, yeah, building the value for value model. You know, I eat 1221 01:14:20,999 --> 01:14:26,339 my airplane. And it takes a while to to build these things. 1222 01:14:27,150 --> 01:14:30,390 But I think I think that's often missing. Adam, you put in your 1223 01:14:30,390 --> 01:14:32,940 time you put in your legs you put in the building audience you 1224 01:14:32,940 --> 01:14:36,030 play hard work. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I get people call me three 1225 01:14:36,030 --> 01:14:38,010 episodes in how come I can't make money? Yeah, 1226 01:14:38,250 --> 01:14:41,940 yeah. All the time and customer support, though. They'll call me 1227 01:14:41,940 --> 01:14:44,790 and say, Hey, I just put on my third episode. Where's the end 1228 01:14:44,790 --> 01:14:46,530 deals? Right? 1229 01:14:47,069 --> 01:14:50,519 Well, I think this we're podcasting. 2.0 can like the net 1230 01:14:50,519 --> 01:14:54,059 with the namespace and everything you can when you have 1231 01:14:54,089 --> 01:14:58,379 new features Finally, and that's that's the thing you can you 1232 01:14:58,409 --> 01:15:02,519 could take a podcast and say, Okay, well, this podcast is 1233 01:15:02,879 --> 01:15:06,959 implementing chapter art or something like that. And it 1234 01:15:06,959 --> 01:15:10,079 could be a new experience, and it could drive a little bit more 1235 01:15:10,079 --> 01:15:13,439 of a little bit more engagement. And this is something that has 1236 01:15:13,439 --> 01:15:17,339 not existed in podcast space for a long time. And, 1237 01:15:17,489 --> 01:15:24,389 and here's a benefit that you might like transcript tag, I 1238 01:15:24,389 --> 01:15:29,699 think I can, I think I can sell this to you to implement this. 1239 01:15:30,419 --> 01:15:33,269 Oh, we're already sold on the transcript tag. Okay, because 1240 01:15:33,299 --> 01:15:38,249 1888 compliance is a huge deal and the lawsuits are coming. So 1241 01:15:38,249 --> 01:15:43,379 the quicker you know, then there's many, many informative 1242 01:15:43,379 --> 01:15:47,849 podcasts that just have to be ADA compliant. And that means 1243 01:15:47,849 --> 01:15:52,589 you have to have subtitles or transcript or something 1244 01:15:52,589 --> 01:15:55,709 available for certain types of information. 1245 01:15:56,310 --> 01:16:00,000 I just realized I gave you the wrong number eight figures, not 1246 01:16:00,000 --> 01:16:03,450 seven. Okay. I got 1247 01:16:03,449 --> 01:16:06,059 excited, I was already transferring Bitcoin to Dave. 1248 01:16:06,059 --> 01:16:06,419 I'm like, 1249 01:16:08,250 --> 01:16:09,300 a couple mil. I 1250 01:16:09,299 --> 01:16:12,599 was just like, That's it. That's it. Undergraduate math for you. 1251 01:16:13,679 --> 01:16:14,819 Hey, Dave, hey, Dave, 1252 01:16:14,819 --> 01:16:16,409 these guys are dumb. Let's go by. 1253 01:16:20,489 --> 01:16:21,569 I'm looking in my wallet. 1254 01:16:23,220 --> 01:16:25,320 I'm like, man, I just I just got fired. 1255 01:16:27,630 --> 01:16:31,830 So, Mike, how many? How many customers do you need to hear 1256 01:16:31,830 --> 01:16:37,140 from before you kick something over to the dev team for a quote 1257 01:16:37,140 --> 01:16:42,030 or for an estimate? I mean, is that 100 people? Is it 50? Is it 1258 01:16:42,060 --> 01:16:43,050 1000? 1259 01:16:43,530 --> 01:16:47,730 It could be two or three and I believe in it fully. So I, you 1260 01:16:47,730 --> 01:16:51,120 know, I've been pushing, not pushing. But you know, I 1261 01:16:51,120 --> 01:16:56,310 realized we have to have, you know, we have to have a need for 1262 01:16:56,310 --> 01:17:01,020 it. As far as you know, we can't just spend a lot of time doing 1263 01:17:01,020 --> 01:17:04,260 this for the sake of doing it, I guess is what I'm getting at is 1264 01:17:04,260 --> 01:17:09,450 what? I don't know. But no, we're fully You know, I'm fully 1265 01:17:09,450 --> 01:17:13,710 on board and, and you know, the more I hear from the the higher 1266 01:17:13,710 --> 01:17:15,240 up in the stack it can get and 1267 01:17:15,750 --> 01:17:19,140 that's Mike and Mike at blueberry calm everybody. Go 1268 01:17:19,140 --> 01:17:23,310 ahead and let Mike know what you want. T is your customer, your 1269 01:17:24,330 --> 01:17:27,270 he is your customer success affiliate. 1270 01:17:28,230 --> 01:17:31,260 And we have had those dreaded meetings, planning meetings to 1271 01:17:31,260 --> 01:17:33,180 see where this fit in the dev schedule. And I 1272 01:17:33,180 --> 01:17:38,460 really I really appreciate that I'm just pushing by No, but I I 1273 01:17:38,460 --> 01:17:42,990 really do appreciate it. Now. I know. I mean, Dave and I are 1274 01:17:42,990 --> 01:17:46,260 still friends after 10 years. So I figured out how how when to 1275 01:17:46,260 --> 01:17:47,400 push and when not to 1276 01:17:49,199 --> 01:17:52,439 wouldn't do the private feeds. Are y'all in that game? yet? 1277 01:17:52,620 --> 01:17:54,930 Me are? You just answered that this year? 1278 01:17:55,260 --> 01:17:57,570 Okay, so I've got a question revolving that because this came 1279 01:17:57,570 --> 01:17:59,670 this came on the mastodon this 1280 01:17:59,670 --> 01:18:00,960 Hold on, hold on a second. Here 1281 01:18:00,960 --> 01:18:02,520 we go. Now, it's 1282 01:18:04,440 --> 01:18:09,690 three times in one in one night. Oh, my God. Did you insatiable? 1283 01:18:09,750 --> 01:18:15,690 It's good. Because we're talking about private, private. On the 1284 01:18:15,690 --> 01:18:22,170 podcast, namespace if you had just a simple tag that you said 1285 01:18:22,170 --> 01:18:27,480 private yes, no, just like, because here's the challenge 1286 01:18:27,480 --> 01:18:34,290 that I've had this this week is for an experiment, I turned on a 1287 01:18:34,290 --> 01:18:37,500 script I've been working on for a while. It takes all the 1288 01:18:37,530 --> 01:18:42,570 anytime some the the endpoint that says podcast by Feed URL, 1289 01:18:43,230 --> 01:18:47,640 if that misses. And it says this, this URL doesn't exist in 1290 01:18:47,640 --> 01:18:52,290 the database. I would say gather go through there and gather all 1291 01:18:52,290 --> 01:18:56,820 those misses from the logs, and then put them through, you know, 1292 01:18:56,820 --> 01:19:00,810 a bunch of checking and sanity and all that jazz and then try 1293 01:19:00,810 --> 01:19:05,850 to find stuff we're missing by scraping out of the logs, things 1294 01:19:05,850 --> 01:19:10,590 that people wanted to hit and mark there. And immediately 1295 01:19:10,590 --> 01:19:12,420 you're getting a bunch of private stuff, a bunch of 1296 01:19:12,420 --> 01:19:16,530 private fields that have bait HTTP basic authentication, on 1297 01:19:16,530 --> 01:19:20,340 the beginning of the URL, a strategic hurry membership only 1298 01:19:20,340 --> 01:19:23,220 feeds all this kind of jazz started, you know, started 1299 01:19:23,220 --> 01:19:27,750 coming up in the list that was that I was testing. And so then 1300 01:19:27,750 --> 01:19:33,570 I started to get put in all the all the exclusionary retro Rena 1301 01:19:33,600 --> 01:19:37,440 regular expression, the garbage to try to kick all that stuff 1302 01:19:37,440 --> 01:19:42,030 out. And if you just had a simple tag that said, Is this a 1303 01:19:42,030 --> 01:19:45,990 private member only fate or is it not? Then I would have to get 1304 01:19:45,990 --> 01:19:46,530 through all that 1305 01:19:47,940 --> 01:19:49,950 is similar to the lock tag, I guess. 1306 01:19:49,980 --> 01:19:55,470 Yeah. And I think that's good for Well, here's, here's the 1307 01:19:55,470 --> 01:19:59,790 other token of that you've got on private podcast speeds, there 1308 01:19:59,790 --> 01:20:03,150 can be different levels of security, maybe only secure the 1309 01:20:03,150 --> 01:20:07,680 media, that's really the lowest level where the Feed URL is 1310 01:20:07,680 --> 01:20:11,760 still public, and it can still be pulled into a directory, then 1311 01:20:11,760 --> 01:20:15,270 you go to that next level where the both the feed and the RSS 1312 01:20:15,270 --> 01:20:18,840 feed are authenticated. And then really at the highest level of 1313 01:20:18,840 --> 01:20:21,540 security and private podcasting, it's really no longer a podcast, 1314 01:20:21,540 --> 01:20:28,350 it's just a stream. But yeah, I think I could go for that, 1315 01:20:28,350 --> 01:20:31,740 especially having a directory as well where I could say, and we 1316 01:20:31,740 --> 01:20:34,470 just don't index that we leave that alone. But on the opposite 1317 01:20:34,470 --> 01:20:38,730 token, then that gives someone that maybe is up to sinister, 1318 01:20:38,820 --> 01:20:42,330 you know, then they go after that feed, what is in here? 1319 01:20:42,330 --> 01:20:46,830 What? Let's try to hack this, so we can, you know, consume what, 1320 01:20:47,250 --> 01:20:51,990 what's being hidden? I don't know, it's two sides of the coin 1321 01:20:51,990 --> 01:20:53,670 there, that would be a good one to ask Angelo. 1322 01:20:54,210 --> 01:20:56,490 Because anytime anytime you have an index, whether it's an 1323 01:20:56,490 --> 01:20:59,040 opening, you know, whether it's an Open Directory, or whether 1324 01:20:59,040 --> 01:21:03,540 it's, you know, something private, like, the the, the 1325 01:21:03,540 --> 01:21:06,600 infrastructure that backs podcast addict, or overcast or 1326 01:21:06,600 --> 01:21:08,940 something like that, you're just going to end up with a lot of 1327 01:21:09,090 --> 01:21:15,120 stuff in there. And what you see is people requesting, requesting 1328 01:21:15,180 --> 01:21:22,020 feeds, using those private, those private URLs, and you see 1329 01:21:22,110 --> 01:21:25,110 a username and a password separated by a colon before the 1330 01:21:25,110 --> 01:21:27,840 app, you know, before the ampersand, there's a schema for 1331 01:21:27,840 --> 01:21:31,800 that symbol. And you see those and it's like, oh, my God, I 1332 01:21:31,800 --> 01:21:33,960 gotta purge this out of the logs. I mean, these are people's 1333 01:21:33,960 --> 01:21:37,200 passwords. I don't even want this in my, I want this in here, 1334 01:21:37,200 --> 01:21:37,530 right. 1335 01:21:37,920 --> 01:21:41,790 But this is the problem with some of these private podcasting 1336 01:21:41,790 --> 01:21:45,510 solutions have been put up, I've always told customers, you need 1337 01:21:45,510 --> 01:21:48,300 to look closely how that's implemented. Because sometimes 1338 01:21:48,300 --> 01:21:52,470 security is implied it is an explicit and you're just 1339 01:21:52,650 --> 01:21:56,430 highlighting and don't say anything. That's an implied 1340 01:21:56,430 --> 01:22:00,030 security because someone is embedding that user and password 1341 01:22:00,300 --> 01:22:01,650 in that call to that media. 1342 01:22:02,550 --> 01:22:05,670 So I don't think I would ever use a service that if you're 1343 01:22:05,670 --> 01:22:09,240 going to do a membership only service and you get back like 1344 01:22:09,240 --> 01:22:12,120 something that has an auth token in the URL. Okay, that's fine, 1345 01:22:12,120 --> 01:22:14,910 but if you're gonna have to put in a username and password that 1346 01:22:14,910 --> 01:22:18,510 is, that's highly sketchy. I don't think that that's 1347 01:22:18,690 --> 01:22:22,620 so sound sounds like By the way, I am so turned on right now. 1348 01:22:25,980 --> 01:22:27,270 That sounds like a winner 1349 01:22:29,279 --> 01:22:32,069 Yeah, I was gonna put it I wanted to throw it by you guys 1350 01:22:32,069 --> 01:22:34,529 first before I throw it before it actually made it they known 1351 01:22:34,529 --> 01:22:36,569 an actual proposal and throw it in the pool. 1352 01:22:36,810 --> 01:22:39,360 Yeah, I think I'm gonna throw that one over to Angela too cuz 1353 01:22:39,360 --> 01:22:42,180 he always is the you know, he's the one that come up Matt fact 1354 01:22:42,180 --> 01:22:44,460 he's got some feedback for you guys on the lock tag. He was 1355 01:22:44,460 --> 01:22:48,720 talking to me about it last Friday hit us. Tell us something 1356 01:22:48,960 --> 01:22:51,600 about that. It's dedication piece. It's about the email 1357 01:22:51,630 --> 01:22:55,080 authenticating and looking at it from a directory and looking at 1358 01:22:55,080 --> 01:22:58,230 it from a private podcaster standpoint where the person's on 1359 01:22:58,230 --> 01:23:01,620 their own comm anyway, he can explain it. He's, he's the one 1360 01:23:01,620 --> 01:23:03,210 that stops here this scenario. So 1361 01:23:03,480 --> 01:23:05,910 yeah, cool. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, he's been he's been super 1362 01:23:05,910 --> 01:23:06,360 valuable. 1363 01:23:06,630 --> 01:23:09,660 Maybe a moment here to thank a few people who've supported 1364 01:23:09,660 --> 01:23:15,840 podcasts index, podcasting 2.0 and have actually sent us some 1365 01:23:15,840 --> 01:23:18,240 treasure. All we want is your time your treasure or your 1366 01:23:18,240 --> 01:23:20,760 talent. That's the value for value model. This is what the 1367 01:23:20,760 --> 01:23:25,680 entire the servers, everything runs on it. And the way to do 1368 01:23:25,680 --> 01:23:29,310 that is again, you can sign up at podcasts. index.org become a 1369 01:23:29,310 --> 01:23:32,640 developer if you're developer join podcast index dot social, 1370 01:23:33,270 --> 01:23:37,260 joining the conversation, and we love the treasure and Dave who 1371 01:23:37,290 --> 01:23:38,430 can we thank today 1372 01:23:40,110 --> 01:23:44,340 this is our you can listen to how much into our fund our buy 1373 01:23:44,340 --> 01:23:45,630 blueberry fund. Yes. 1374 01:23:46,800 --> 01:23:49,560 Send more money. We need more to buy blueberry. 1375 01:23:50,670 --> 01:23:55,680 See, Greg? Greg Carl would from higher higher side chats he's 1376 01:23:55,680 --> 01:24:00,450 helping us by blueberry. See, he sent us $500 1377 01:24:00,480 --> 01:24:02,580 Whoa, now you 1378 01:24:02,580 --> 01:24:05,520 know he mentioned this to me because he'd been asking for a 1379 01:24:05,520 --> 01:24:10,260 long time to interview me. It actually came through crossover 1380 01:24:10,260 --> 01:24:13,440 of our media tribes you know people who listen to him also 1381 01:24:13,440 --> 01:24:17,130 listen to no agenda and and this was very focused on podcasting 1382 01:24:17,130 --> 01:24:19,590 to buy likes, I'll put it in the show notes. very focused on 1383 01:24:19,590 --> 01:24:25,350 podcasting. 2.0 great guy and he as you can see, he's all on 1384 01:24:25,350 --> 01:24:28,050 board. Thank you so much, man that really appreciate that 1385 01:24:28,080 --> 01:24:28,770 really do. 1386 01:24:29,100 --> 01:24:31,530 Yeah, he had a message that said, thanks to both of you. 1387 01:24:31,530 --> 01:24:34,710 You're doing the Lord's work. Great. Carl would have said 1388 01:24:34,710 --> 01:24:39,510 check your mic and go ahead and get my get my office ready. 1389 01:24:42,569 --> 01:24:43,499 That's right, baby. 1390 01:24:43,590 --> 01:24:46,110 Yeah, I'll build another 10 foot shed here in Traverse 1391 01:24:46,110 --> 01:24:48,360 City. And close my 1392 01:24:49,320 --> 01:24:56,520 eyes. Let's see. Make sure this is not anonymous. No. Okay. This 1393 01:24:56,520 --> 01:25:02,130 is from sir Jeffrey. Sir Jeffries, Ellen. Love the board 1394 01:25:02,130 --> 01:25:05,100 May he gave us $50. And he said love the board meetings and 1395 01:25:05,100 --> 01:25:08,610 found a lot of inspiration to contribute over on the mastodon 1396 01:25:08,610 --> 01:25:12,090 based on your conversations. Hope this helps pay for someone 1397 01:25:12,090 --> 01:25:15,210 to go juggle, juggle the wire and loosen up the club bits. 1398 01:25:17,130 --> 01:25:21,480 He's Muppet. 1856 on podcast index dot social. Nice. 1399 01:25:21,480 --> 01:25:22,230 Yeah. All right, we'll 1400 01:25:22,230 --> 01:25:29,280 go. We'll go jiggle the handle. Let's see what we got. Ah 1401 01:25:30,660 --> 01:25:39,810 1234 $12.34 from Mark Taylor. No note from Mark. Thank you, Mark. 1402 01:25:41,100 --> 01:25:49,500 We got $20 from Scott Gerard. Again, no note. Thank you, 1403 01:25:49,500 --> 01:25:49,890 Scott. 1404 01:25:51,000 --> 01:25:52,230 This is good. Good week. 1405 01:25:52,440 --> 01:25:59,280 Yeah, it is good week. See this? Oh, we got an automatic. So I 1406 01:25:59,280 --> 01:26:07,560 got an idea for for peerage. If, if we need to, we need a pod, we 1407 01:26:07,560 --> 01:26:13,770 need a GitHub repository. And we just put people into the GitHub 1408 01:26:13,770 --> 01:26:19,020 repo to help them beef up their, their GitHub profile. Like, you 1409 01:26:19,020 --> 01:26:21,270 know, cuz that's the way like developers, right? 1410 01:26:22,050 --> 01:26:25,290 Like LinkedIn pay for your profile. I'm sure I'm sure we're 1411 01:26:25,290 --> 01:26:28,320 breaking some terms of service with GitHub somewhere. But great 1412 01:26:28,320 --> 01:26:29,010 idea. Let's 1413 01:26:29,010 --> 01:26:29,490 do it. 1414 01:26:30,870 --> 01:26:31,530 Last, 1415 01:26:31,650 --> 01:26:34,200 we'll get him to do a pull request. And we'll just say end 1416 01:26:34,200 --> 01:26:36,300 quote. You know, it merged their pull request and they get 1417 01:26:36,300 --> 01:26:37,410 instant cred, 1418 01:26:37,440 --> 01:26:37,950 guys. 1419 01:26:37,979 --> 01:26:38,579 Let's do it. 1420 01:26:38,640 --> 01:26:39,300 Let's do it. 1421 01:26:40,560 --> 01:26:44,850 So the he's got a new subscription for $8 a month cost 1422 01:26:44,850 --> 01:26:45,480 subscriptions are 1423 01:26:45,480 --> 01:26:47,070 great. We really appreciate those. 1424 01:26:47,069 --> 01:26:55,859 Those helped Dwayne Goldie, the second. And last one, yes or 1425 01:26:55,859 --> 01:27:03,359 less. Lauren ball $24.20. He says Happy Friday, gentlemen, 1426 01:27:03,599 --> 01:27:05,789 this month, the short letter enjoy the weekend. 1427 01:27:07,980 --> 01:27:08,880 Thank you. It's great. 1428 01:27:09,090 --> 01:27:11,280 2420 I'm not sure if that's numerology 1429 01:27:11,280 --> 01:27:14,100 or not at all the 420 part I picked up on I'm not quite sure. 1430 01:27:15,150 --> 01:27:17,070 Yeah, that's our group. Good group. 1431 01:27:17,159 --> 01:27:22,859 I've got a defragment everybody. Okay, thank you all very much. 1432 01:27:23,249 --> 01:27:26,369 This is what it what it runs on. This is how the only way there's 1433 01:27:26,369 --> 01:27:29,579 no advertising, commercial interests, anything that could 1434 01:27:29,579 --> 01:27:32,969 cloud the vision of preserving podcasting as a platform for 1435 01:27:32,969 --> 01:27:36,119 free speech and bringing everybody in and spreading the 1436 01:27:36,119 --> 01:27:42,449 love by retooling as a platform of value for all. And we of 1437 01:27:42,449 --> 01:27:44,699 course appreciate it when you can send some treasure our way 1438 01:27:44,699 --> 01:27:48,629 go to podcast index.org. And on the bottom Big Red Donate 1439 01:27:48,629 --> 01:27:51,539 button. There's also a way to send us some lightning Bitcoin 1440 01:27:51,930 --> 01:27:55,290 $600 closer to being Todd and Mike's balls. That's right. 1441 01:27:55,290 --> 01:27:55,710 Can't wait. 1442 01:27:55,710 --> 01:27:56,880 I'm gonna make him get coffee. 1443 01:27:57,210 --> 01:28:01,170 Yeah, that's a guy guys. We're gonna put better coffee in the 1444 01:28:01,170 --> 01:28:01,800 break room. 1445 01:28:03,180 --> 01:28:06,510 Things will improve charge of Dev. 1446 01:28:12,149 --> 01:28:15,239 Adam now be honest with you never want to be in charge of 1447 01:28:15,239 --> 01:28:17,429 dev because that is just nothing but a 1448 01:28:19,980 --> 01:28:25,410 was when I when we took took my company public in 96. And I 1449 01:28:25,440 --> 01:28:29,460 never wanted to be the CEO. I was CTO. So I had great people 1450 01:28:29,460 --> 01:28:33,690 working with me, but I remember becoming because we were NASDAQ 1451 01:28:33,750 --> 01:28:39,150 becoming y2k compliant. Brother, let me tell you, I learned a 1452 01:28:39,150 --> 01:28:40,650 lot. I learned a lot during 1453 01:28:40,650 --> 01:28:45,690 that process. And during the y2k thing, I worked at a Insurance 1454 01:28:45,690 --> 01:28:50,880 Brokerage as a as a sysadmin. We had a floppy disk that we would 1455 01:28:50,880 --> 01:28:56,520 run What do you get was a three and a half inch floppy that 1456 01:28:56,520 --> 01:28:59,610 would go around to every computer in the entire like, 1457 01:28:59,640 --> 01:29:03,270 this is like, you know, 500 machines, you put the floppy 1458 01:29:03,270 --> 01:29:06,330 disk and boot off the floppy. you'd run a couple of commands. 1459 01:29:06,330 --> 01:29:09,300 It would tell you whether the BIOS was y2k compatible or not. 1460 01:29:09,510 --> 01:29:12,990 If it wasn't, then you had a firmware you had to load up to 1461 01:29:13,110 --> 01:29:15,000 weeks. weeks. 1462 01:29:15,029 --> 01:29:18,599 I got it. I did get a NASDAQ commendation for being the first 1463 01:29:18,599 --> 01:29:23,849 public company to be fully y2k compliant. Which sad about 1464 01:29:23,849 --> 01:29:25,649 seeing the big scam that it was 1465 01:29:27,720 --> 01:29:30,990 my mom bought her bunker and regenerators and that's it. 1466 01:29:33,029 --> 01:29:35,189 Hey, it's still useful today. So 1467 01:29:37,380 --> 01:29:38,310 more useful. 1468 01:29:39,630 --> 01:29:40,350 Gentlemen, it's 1469 01:29:40,350 --> 01:29:42,960 been so nice having you on. It's nice to just chat for a little 1470 01:29:42,960 --> 01:29:45,450 bit. Is there anything we missed? You guys want to talk 1471 01:29:45,450 --> 01:29:49,170 about besides the acquisition, any other word knows we're in a 1472 01:29:49,170 --> 01:29:54,300 quiet period right now. Anything else on your radar that we can 1473 01:29:54,300 --> 01:29:57,240 do to improve your lives? Well, 1474 01:29:57,239 --> 01:30:00,899 I think just for the podcasters that are listening I think that 1475 01:30:00,899 --> 01:30:04,919 it's more important than ever, that you do everything you can 1476 01:30:04,919 --> 01:30:08,549 to build your show and your brand on, on land you own, 1477 01:30:08,669 --> 01:30:12,389 whether that be your own.com and on your own iron or whatever it 1478 01:30:12,389 --> 01:30:17,159 may be. I think having your own having your own website, in this 1479 01:30:17,159 --> 01:30:20,639 day and time and controlling your RSS feed is really, really 1480 01:30:20,639 --> 01:30:23,549 critical. You know, if anything else make sure you you own 1481 01:30:23,549 --> 01:30:27,479 that.com that that RSS feeds associated with Amen. Yeah, 1482 01:30:27,479 --> 01:30:27,719 that's 1483 01:30:27,719 --> 01:30:28,769 a great advice. 1484 01:30:29,369 --> 01:30:32,549 I was like, say, build your show on your platform, somebody 1485 01:30:32,549 --> 01:30:33,209 else's. 1486 01:30:33,989 --> 01:30:34,979 And 100% 1487 01:30:35,159 --> 01:30:36,179 we can help you do that. 1488 01:30:36,509 --> 01:30:39,509 And whatever you do look for protocols, not platforms, 1489 01:30:39,539 --> 01:30:44,459 because that's people just jumping from the fat into the 1490 01:30:44,459 --> 01:30:46,259 fire everywhere. Yep. 1491 01:30:46,710 --> 01:30:49,020 I mean, yeah, thanks, Adam and de purlins Come on, we 1492 01:30:49,020 --> 01:30:49,500 appreciate. 1493 01:30:49,770 --> 01:30:51,510 Yeah, yeah. That's awesome. 1494 01:30:51,630 --> 01:30:55,680 No, thank you guys. And thank you for for being a pillar, a 1495 01:30:55,680 --> 01:31:01,230 pillar of the podcasting space. But also just, you know, great, 1496 01:31:01,260 --> 01:31:05,130 great members of the UN, I mean it when I say community, because 1497 01:31:05,130 --> 01:31:08,550 podcasting, it's still it's always going to be community as 1498 01:31:08,550 --> 01:31:11,760 long as we have free and open podcasting and you are clearly 1499 01:31:12,690 --> 01:31:14,850 right there at the tip of the spear with everybody else and 1500 01:31:14,850 --> 01:31:18,300 really, really appreciate it and thanks again for coming on. And 1501 01:31:18,570 --> 01:31:21,420 I'm sure will be will be update what what have you guys on again 1502 01:31:21,420 --> 01:31:23,700 in the future, you know, after after the sale. 1503 01:31:25,949 --> 01:31:26,939 It'll just be a meeting and 1504 01:31:27,779 --> 01:31:30,569 a quick meeting. Dave, anything for you as we wrap it up. 1505 01:31:30,989 --> 01:31:35,849 Now, I get to take care of the day job, so I'm not I'm good. 1506 01:31:35,849 --> 01:31:39,359 I'm like I just need to any some food. gotta eat some lunch, 1507 01:31:39,359 --> 01:31:42,269 everybody, go get your favorite dev some lunch pizza works. I 1508 01:31:42,269 --> 01:31:44,879 hear and thank you very much for joining us once again to 1509 01:31:44,879 --> 01:31:48,659 podcasting. 2.0 we back again with another board meeting of 1510 01:31:48,659 --> 01:31:50,429 the future next Friday. See 1511 01:31:50,430 --> 01:31:50,970 you then. 1512 01:32:07,979 --> 01:32:13,109 Listening to podcasting 2.0 visit podcasts index.com for 1513 01:32:13,109 --> 01:32:16,439 more information. podcasts are cool.