1 00:00:00,179 --> 00:00:04,469 podcasting 2.0 for December 12 2020, this is episode number 2 00:00:04,469 --> 00:00:07,019 15. And Hey baby, we're with the band 3 00:00:12,210 --> 00:00:14,100 all around. But it is 4 00:00:14,100 --> 00:00:17,400 a Friday time once again for a meeting of the Board for 5 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:22,530 podcasting 2.0 podcast index.org. And now, ladies and 6 00:00:22,530 --> 00:00:25,110 gentlemen, the man who put the auto in autocomplete the 7 00:00:25,110 --> 00:00:28,140 developer Dynamo, Mr. Dave Jones. 8 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:30,330 Was the band, the band. 9 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:38,040 The band, we were the band. Were the band. Yeah, this is 10 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:40,740 something. First of all, how you doing? Man? 11 00:00:42,030 --> 00:00:45,990 I'm sad. You're sad, is extremely depressed. What's 12 00:00:45,990 --> 00:00:52,740 wrong? And nobody appears to like us anymore. We had two 13 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:54,330 donations this week. 14 00:00:54,540 --> 00:00:57,030 Oh, honeymoon is over. 15 00:00:57,299 --> 00:01:00,749 No. Yeah, yeah, it's Yeah, it's the cold hard. Facing the cold 16 00:01:00,749 --> 00:01:05,009 hard reality now of the dark winter. Yes, it's dark winter. 17 00:01:05,039 --> 00:01:06,239 Yeah, it's dark winter. Well, 18 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:09,810 then let me say right off the bat, if this is a value for 19 00:01:09,810 --> 00:01:14,430 value projects, podcast, index.org and the accompanying 20 00:01:14,430 --> 00:01:19,590 podcast. And if you want to support it, if you get any value 21 00:01:19,590 --> 00:01:22,230 out of what you're seeing, maybe you're an app developer, maybe 22 00:01:22,230 --> 00:01:25,140 you're just a podcast listener, maybe just listen to this 23 00:01:25,140 --> 00:01:29,010 podcast. Who knows? Maybe you just like free speech. And that 24 00:01:29,010 --> 00:01:32,460 kind of stuff and fighting against canceled culture. Put 25 00:01:32,460 --> 00:01:34,800 that into a number put in just keep it in your head, go to 26 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:39,540 podcast index.org and hit the big red Donate button and send 27 00:01:39,540 --> 00:01:43,140 us some value. We'd really appreciate that. We did get a 28 00:01:43,140 --> 00:01:47,850 nice sponsored value returned from RSS calm. 29 00:01:48,060 --> 00:01:52,200 Yeah, totally. And I've put that into the donation since he was 30 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:53,040 already so sure. 31 00:01:53,460 --> 00:01:55,590 That's one of the two. Yeah, let's 32 00:01:55,590 --> 00:01:58,560 not talk about that right now. You gotta save it. 33 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:01,200 Okay, that's not 34 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:03,570 one of the two. That's the nest number three, like two and a 35 00:02:03,570 --> 00:02:04,050 half. Yeah. 36 00:02:04,290 --> 00:02:08,010 That was in pod news. And I and I do want to say now you're sad. 37 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:09,210 I'm a little bit Earth. 38 00:02:10,380 --> 00:02:10,920 Oh, yeah. Because 39 00:02:10,920 --> 00:02:18,150 I know. James Cridland pod news. dotnet. He has a podcast, which 40 00:02:18,150 --> 00:02:19,980 is that called the pod news podcast. Is 41 00:02:19,980 --> 00:02:22,860 that what that is? But there's that and then he's got a new one 42 00:02:22,860 --> 00:02:23,850 called pod land. 43 00:02:24,390 --> 00:02:27,210 I don't know which one I was listening to maybe was pod land. 44 00:02:27,570 --> 00:02:31,620 And all of a sudden, he's like stealing our material he's doing 45 00:02:31,710 --> 00:02:38,190 he's doing hot namespace talk. Excuse me. Yes, that's not okay. 46 00:02:38,190 --> 00:02:40,440 It's like horning in on our business. Dave? 47 00:02:40,740 --> 00:02:44,220 Yeah. No, we get there's only one podcast that gets to talk 48 00:02:44,220 --> 00:02:46,800 about namespaces for an hour seriously. 49 00:02:46,980 --> 00:02:49,320 I mean, we are the porn hub of namespace. 50 00:02:50,580 --> 00:02:51,870 And it's so appropriate. 51 00:02:53,130 --> 00:02:56,970 Appropriate. I know I saw a Ryan Gentry from lightning labs he 52 00:02:56,970 --> 00:03:00,720 was he posted in one I think Tales from the Crypt tribe on 53 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:05,040 swings chat, says Does anyone know anyone over to Pornhub 54 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:06,090 asking for a friend 55 00:03:07,710 --> 00:03:12,480 is like okay, they need a Visa MasterCard. For exactly the 56 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:17,190 processing. Let's get in there. My immediate reaction was well 57 00:03:17,190 --> 00:03:21,150 get ready for Bitcoin. 100,000. Yeah, is it's going up baby. 58 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:23,670 And Tina right away. She's like, oh, Bitcoin. There's your 59 00:03:23,670 --> 00:03:24,900 answer. That's what you got to do. 60 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:29,160 That was funny. Yeah. That was funny. Yeah. deeper on on social 61 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:29,370 media. 62 00:03:30,390 --> 00:03:31,830 She knows man. She knows 63 00:03:31,860 --> 00:03:36,510 that. If she does. She needs to send them an invoice. That's 64 00:03:36,510 --> 00:03:38,610 good. material. Reminder, insulting. 65 00:03:39,690 --> 00:03:42,390 She should send us a Yeah, when she can send us a lightning 66 00:03:42,390 --> 00:03:45,960 invoice. We'll pay it. Yeah. When she can. She has a wallet. 67 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:52,920 So does she Yeah. Oh, yes. I want a wallet. Okay. You go. And 68 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,770 what she needs is a podcast that wallet. That's what she needs. 69 00:03:56,100 --> 00:04:01,890 And that's true. I want to ask everyone who's listening to this 70 00:04:01,890 --> 00:04:06,510 in a in a lightning enabled app to crank up the value sliders, 71 00:04:06,510 --> 00:04:12,990 please peg that to the right. thing. Go to whatever whatever 72 00:04:12,990 --> 00:04:18,090 your value settings should be. And I was thinking now that we 73 00:04:18,090 --> 00:04:22,590 have Dred Scott, doing community chapters for the show, which is 74 00:04:22,590 --> 00:04:24,210 dynamite. I don't know if you've seen it. 75 00:04:24,570 --> 00:04:29,430 Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was awesome. I saw it. The one I saw earlier, 76 00:04:29,460 --> 00:04:33,780 the chapters were rolling through. And it was like, just 77 00:04:33,780 --> 00:04:37,140 links to pay like iframes with pages and it could scroll. It 78 00:04:37,140 --> 00:04:40,620 was awesome. It was that love that article? substack. karate. 79 00:04:41,580 --> 00:04:44,910 Oh, yeah. Last week it was in there. You could just read the 80 00:04:44,910 --> 00:04:51,060 article right in the app. Yeah, cool is that pause the podcast, 81 00:04:51,060 --> 00:04:53,160 read the article and then unpause it. Of course, that 82 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:54,840 article was like 500 miles 83 00:04:55,500 --> 00:04:58,440 an article. Yeah. And if you're wondering how you can witness 84 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:02,370 all this beauty, go to new pod stamps.com that's where, where 85 00:05:02,370 --> 00:05:05,700 you can find all the apps and services hosting companies that 86 00:05:05,700 --> 00:05:09,750 are podcasting 2.0 compliant, and certified as an idea. 87 00:05:10,050 --> 00:05:14,850 I just had an idea. Okay? If that happens, you're sitting 88 00:05:14,850 --> 00:05:18,630 there listening to a podcast and the chapter comes through, and 89 00:05:18,630 --> 00:05:22,350 has something you can read or something like that. We get a, 90 00:05:22,710 --> 00:05:25,260 you get to have some way to have like a lightning payment into 91 00:05:25,260 --> 00:05:29,220 things. So you can see you could like, help the person, this 92 00:05:29,220 --> 00:05:30,270 stuff you're linking to. 93 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:34,710 So okay, two things. And this, and we'll just get this out of 94 00:05:34,710 --> 00:05:37,560 that we have guests hanging, so I don't want to take too long. 95 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,910 But I had dinner with Paul from Sphinx chat. He was in Austin, 96 00:05:42,420 --> 00:05:48,540 the other day. And so first off, yes. What I'd like to do with 97 00:05:48,540 --> 00:05:52,500 the show right now, since Dred Scott is doing our chapters, I'm 98 00:05:52,500 --> 00:05:56,010 going to get him a node. And we should cut him in on the value 99 00:05:56,010 --> 00:05:57,600 block for what 5%? 100 00:05:58,320 --> 00:05:58,980 Oh, yeah, sure. Should 101 00:05:58,980 --> 00:06:02,010 we do that's great. Yeah. So we can also show how this actually 102 00:06:02,010 --> 00:06:05,190 works and, and have him enjoy some of that. I mean, that's the 103 00:06:05,190 --> 00:06:08,520 whole point is, you know, we are eating our own dog food here. 104 00:06:08,700 --> 00:06:12,930 And coming back to what you just said, We're with the band was 105 00:06:12,930 --> 00:06:17,370 something that Paul identified at our dinner, he said, what's 106 00:06:17,370 --> 00:06:21,000 happening with the community chapters that people can add to 107 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,300 it, but also in Sphinx chat with the boosts and with the chat 108 00:06:24,300 --> 00:06:30,270 itself. That's all additional content that is added by the 109 00:06:30,840 --> 00:06:35,250 listeners, I like to call them producers. And it makes you feel 110 00:06:35,250 --> 00:06:39,360 like you're with the band. And so Dred Scott is truly with the 111 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:46,890 band right now. And the Lee with the the amount of creativity he 112 00:06:46,890 --> 00:06:51,210 can put in with still very rudimentary tools is quite 113 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,780 astounding. And what he's what I see him do on no agenda, where 114 00:06:54,780 --> 00:06:57,390 he's doing the same also gonna put him in the value block for 115 00:06:57,390 --> 00:07:00,720 that show, is he'll get images, appropriate images from no 116 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,750 agenda, art generator, and put those in topics that we're 117 00:07:03,750 --> 00:07:06,120 talking about stuff because most of those images come up from a 118 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:09,120 topic that just not picked up the album art. So now he's 119 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,780 putting that in. So now that that now also brings in the 120 00:07:12,810 --> 00:07:16,290 other artists, I mean, it's, you know, who you're with the band, 121 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:19,350 and they get to be a part of the podcast, it's really mind 122 00:07:19,350 --> 00:07:24,030 blowing. And I want to have that for clips. You know, there's, 123 00:07:24,390 --> 00:07:28,980 there's just so much stuff that we could add to it. And it's 124 00:07:28,980 --> 00:07:33,540 gonna be pretty app specific the way it is. Now, unless or until, 125 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:38,760 you know, every child born is provided a lightning node ID at 126 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:42,000 birth, which is really what I think should happen. I'm 127 00:07:42,210 --> 00:07:43,320 going Somali, I'm 128 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:47,550 going to lobby for this. Yes. A shot of every child needs a 129 00:07:47,550 --> 00:07:48,030 lightning 130 00:07:48,030 --> 00:07:51,450 node ID Yeah. And you just barcode it on your forehead? 131 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:54,030 Well, that's fine. As long as it's not on the forehead or on 132 00:07:54,030 --> 00:07:56,490 your right hand. And it's not the mark of the beast. It's a 133 00:07:56,490 --> 00:07:57,180 good thing. 134 00:07:57,420 --> 00:07:59,820 Yeah, everybody gets a lightning node. And here's the number 135 00:07:59,820 --> 00:08:02,730 we're gonna tattoo. I don't, there's nothing wrong with this. 136 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:07,260 So and this is maybe something we'll talk with our guests 137 00:08:07,260 --> 00:08:12,090 about. It kind of flows into what is the end? God, I can't 138 00:08:12,090 --> 00:08:15,540 believe I'm using the term the deep data file, which is up for 139 00:08:15,540 --> 00:08:23,520 discussion now. Which you're not liking it. Oh, you're not out of 140 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:24,990 file. Well, hit me, brother. 141 00:08:27,780 --> 00:08:34,350 I don't know what rule I got what rule it is. It's the rules. 142 00:08:34,350 --> 00:08:34,740 First, we 143 00:08:34,739 --> 00:08:36,509 need to go back to the rule book. Yeah. 144 00:08:36,989 --> 00:08:42,419 Yeah, you know, and I get it. I totally understand that. The 145 00:08:42,419 --> 00:08:45,209 name doesn't match up with necessarily all the things it 146 00:08:45,209 --> 00:08:50,339 does. The problem, though, is that it really doesn't matter 147 00:08:50,339 --> 00:08:54,539 what you call it. That that is in that is one of the rules for 148 00:08:54,539 --> 00:08:56,429 standard makers. It totally doesn't matter what 149 00:08:56,429 --> 00:08:59,909 right. All right, the then I'm misunderstanding the issue. I 150 00:08:59,909 --> 00:09:02,909 thought it wasn't just about, here's what I here's what I feel 151 00:09:02,909 --> 00:09:06,089 is happening. And I could be wrong. And it's not an 152 00:09:06,119 --> 00:09:10,769 accusatory statement. I feel there's a push to have an 153 00:09:10,769 --> 00:09:15,059 external data file that will contain all kinds of extra 154 00:09:15,059 --> 00:09:19,199 goodies. And one day, I'm gonna wake up and it's gonna be JSON. 155 00:09:19,799 --> 00:09:20,159 That's, 156 00:09:20,519 --> 00:09:23,939 that's what it already is. Jason, you're living your 157 00:09:24,449 --> 00:09:25,409 dreams. Okay. 158 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:28,170 I knew it was a backdoor to JSON somehow. 159 00:09:28,590 --> 00:09:31,860 I say yeah, no, it's Jason. Is it JSON all the way down, but I 160 00:09:31,860 --> 00:09:32,130 do 161 00:09:32,130 --> 00:09:39,390 see the value in having the ability now. And it all depends 162 00:09:39,390 --> 00:09:43,740 on what's easier. Is it easier to have podcast apps, no one to 163 00:09:43,740 --> 00:09:47,100 refresh the feed and get new information, or is it easier to 164 00:09:47,100 --> 00:09:49,860 have a couple of files in there that are static that the apple 165 00:09:49,860 --> 00:09:53,370 just reread every single time it fires up for an episode? That 166 00:09:53,370 --> 00:09:57,360 seems to be the the main crux of the issue. 167 00:10:00,690 --> 00:10:04,860 Yeah, I mean, the chapters file is already basically that it's 168 00:10:04,860 --> 00:10:08,850 it's it is the quote unquote deep data file. And I'm never in 169 00:10:08,850 --> 00:10:13,440 a. That's, that's what it is. And so that's what like Daniel 170 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:17,940 is saying is that he thinks that the the name chapters does not 171 00:10:18,270 --> 00:10:20,160 properly reflect what, oh, 172 00:10:20,159 --> 00:10:22,259 I don't care about file. I don't care about the name 173 00:10:22,289 --> 00:10:26,759 that doesn't. That's, that's where I'm at to it. And he, he, 174 00:10:28,019 --> 00:10:33,059 he likened it to with choosing the name podcast for the podcast 175 00:10:33,059 --> 00:10:38,549 namespace. I think that is that is different. That is that is 176 00:10:38,549 --> 00:10:43,949 something that's sort of external as far as the way it 177 00:10:43,949 --> 00:10:46,889 works in the world. And you mean, it's a name that people 178 00:10:46,889 --> 00:10:47,909 need to understand, 179 00:10:47,940 --> 00:10:52,560 right? They even is, but this came out of a confusion saying 180 00:10:52,560 --> 00:10:58,080 that clips is identical information to chapters, or did 181 00:10:58,080 --> 00:10:59,070 I misunderstand? 182 00:10:59,820 --> 00:11:05,010 Well, it does sound I think you think sound bites? Yes. Yeah. it 183 00:11:05,550 --> 00:11:09,510 so well. My my thing is that when I say it, totally doesn't 184 00:11:09,510 --> 00:11:12,270 matter what you what you name it, I don't mean that it doesn't 185 00:11:12,270 --> 00:11:16,290 matter what the Nate what you call it, ever. Like, in all 186 00:11:16,290 --> 00:11:19,950 circumstances, what I mean, what I mean, in in, I'm probably not 187 00:11:19,950 --> 00:11:22,200 making this clear either, is that it doesn't matter what you 188 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:26,430 call it, when you get down into the technical weeds? Mm hmm. So 189 00:11:26,460 --> 00:11:30,930 like, we use things called me, think of a TCP IP is a 190 00:11:30,930 --> 00:11:35,100 meaningless term. It's an acronym for something and most 191 00:11:35,100 --> 00:11:37,890 people don't ever, most people don't need to know, it doesn't 192 00:11:37,890 --> 00:11:40,710 matter what it even stands for. It just does a thing. And we 193 00:11:40,710 --> 00:11:44,520 know what it does. The name chapters, it doesn't matter. 194 00:11:44,700 --> 00:11:47,760 Because the only people referencing the chat the name 195 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,790 chapters who even need to know what it means, or the people 196 00:11:50,790 --> 00:11:54,180 that are doing the protocol implementation. And so for those 197 00:11:54,180 --> 00:11:57,450 people, they just know that a chapters file has all these 198 00:11:57,450 --> 00:12:01,380 other things in it. And, and so it's just fine. I mean, you 199 00:12:01,380 --> 00:12:04,770 could call it, you know, you could call it block. 200 00:12:04,830 --> 00:12:08,370 Okay. All right. Let me let me play this back to you. So the 201 00:12:08,370 --> 00:12:13,320 chapters file, could be could be both chapters file and sound 202 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:16,110 bytes file or just the sound bytes file, it doesn't matter 203 00:12:16,110 --> 00:12:19,200 what it's called, that day, that type of data will be in that 204 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:19,650 file. 205 00:12:20,340 --> 00:12:23,220 What it's more, it's less about the soundbite and more about 206 00:12:23,790 --> 00:12:27,420 other types of data like location, don't you know, that's 207 00:12:27,450 --> 00:12:29,940 in I don't even I didn't even want to bring that up. Because 208 00:12:29,940 --> 00:12:34,380 location tag is, is not I got I got all hot and bothered listen 209 00:12:34,380 --> 00:12:39,180 to Cridland about it. So I might as well bring it up. Yeah, no, 210 00:12:39,510 --> 00:12:43,020 it's the location tag is fine. It stands alone, it's gonna be 211 00:12:43,050 --> 00:12:47,430 it we get, we get that it will get over the hump. But there is 212 00:12:47,460 --> 00:12:51,570 also an idea of putting a location location points inside 213 00:12:51,570 --> 00:12:54,570 the chapters file. So if somebody was doing a podcast of 214 00:12:54,570 --> 00:12:58,830 like a walking tour, you can put little pocket. So at that point, 215 00:12:58,830 --> 00:13:02,790 it's like, well, it's not chapters anymore. It's something 216 00:13:02,790 --> 00:13:08,010 else. But you know, my, my counter example was bookmarks 217 00:13:08,010 --> 00:13:12,900 and a PDF, bookmarks and a PDF. Yes, they function as bookmarks, 218 00:13:12,900 --> 00:13:15,330 but they also have other things. And I'm like, you can put a full 219 00:13:15,330 --> 00:13:20,070 JavaScript code in. Right, which, which I have, yeah, yeah. 220 00:13:20,070 --> 00:13:22,950 And it resizes the page, when you click on it changes font 221 00:13:22,950 --> 00:13:26,760 does all this crazy crap. So and we still call them bookmarks. 222 00:13:27,630 --> 00:13:30,480 You don't know. I'm just saying that. At a technical level, you 223 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,330 don't have to change the name of a thing just because it doesn't 224 00:13:33,330 --> 00:13:36,840 necessarily match the functionality of the thing. As 225 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:42,210 long as the name sort of encompasses the idea. There the 226 00:13:42,210 --> 00:13:46,170 the goal, you know, that's fine. I just don't I just not I just 227 00:13:46,170 --> 00:13:47,850 don't think it's that big of a deal. Yeah, okay. 228 00:13:47,850 --> 00:13:50,880 Well, I was confused because I didn't realize was just about 229 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:53,490 that. What it's called I thought it was much deeper. So I'm 230 00:13:53,490 --> 00:13:55,800 sorry, even brought it up. I'm sorry, I ruined your day. 231 00:13:57,630 --> 00:13:58,140 Piss. 232 00:14:01,230 --> 00:14:01,980 Okay. 233 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:08,520 Before we get past them I know, you know, before we Anyway, it 234 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:14,100 was great planning and talking to Paul. An update on that 235 00:14:14,100 --> 00:14:18,150 front. You know, the breeze work continues. I've no idea when the 236 00:14:18,180 --> 00:14:23,160 when their drop date is for, for a wallet with, whether it's 237 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:26,940 wallet with podcast capabilities or a standalone app. I'm not 238 00:14:26,940 --> 00:14:29,520 quite sure but they are developing and they have code on 239 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:30,750 GitHub. Did you see that code? 240 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:31,860 Do you look at it at all? 241 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:34,530 I did I linked over to and look at the wall had met totally had 242 00:14:34,530 --> 00:14:35,280 no idea what else 243 00:14:36,929 --> 00:14:38,009 could you figure it out? 244 00:14:38,669 --> 00:14:39,119 I could. 245 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,300 I could lie to you and tell you I was all over it. This looks 246 00:14:42,300 --> 00:14:42,690 really 247 00:14:42,990 --> 00:14:44,310 look real structured to me. 248 00:14:44,850 --> 00:14:48,090 Yeah, I think it looks fine. Yeah, let's just look beautiful. 249 00:14:49,559 --> 00:14:54,299 And then we also talked about about nodes and stuff like that, 250 00:14:54,299 --> 00:15:00,599 and I've been talking to graham@voltage.io because We 251 00:15:00,599 --> 00:15:04,379 witnessed kind of an overload of our nodes with the with the 252 00:15:04,439 --> 00:15:07,109 amount of transactions and he confirmed it. I think, you know, 253 00:15:07,259 --> 00:15:10,559 podcast index.org has the most transactions of anyone right now 254 00:15:10,559 --> 00:15:15,119 on the lightning network, which is quite bizarre. And something 255 00:15:15,119 --> 00:15:18,179 happened because he automatically upgrades to more 256 00:15:18,179 --> 00:15:20,819 CPU and we're actually going to get a dedicated set up from him. 257 00:15:22,259 --> 00:15:25,259 And so channel started to close and then we were missing keys 258 00:15:25,259 --> 00:15:27,269 and payments. And 259 00:15:27,509 --> 00:15:28,529 now I can't work 260 00:15:28,559 --> 00:15:33,299 no and, and even closed our channel to Spinks chat. I'm 261 00:15:33,299 --> 00:15:36,779 like, What am I gonna do? And even though it's discouraged in 262 00:15:36,779 --> 00:15:41,069 the lightening documentation, which I didn't realize until I 263 00:15:41,069 --> 00:15:42,569 was told later, that 264 00:15:42,809 --> 00:15:44,879 there's light, there's lightning document documentation. 265 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:48,240 Yes. Well, yes. And there's apparently there's there's a 266 00:15:48,540 --> 00:15:51,840 thing that says it's really quite not done to request 267 00:15:51,870 --> 00:15:56,760 inbound liquidity on Twitter, which I do it. And of course, he 268 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:00,540 got like 15 or $20,000 worth of inbound liquidity from some 269 00:16:00,540 --> 00:16:02,970 great partners and peers routing. So 270 00:16:03,090 --> 00:16:04,470 you're a rule breaker, man, 271 00:16:04,500 --> 00:16:05,640 I 272 00:16:05,639 --> 00:16:08,429 What can I say? All right, our guest today, 273 00:16:09,059 --> 00:16:13,709 we're invited. Daniel J. Daniel J. Lewis. Olivia. Don't hate me. 274 00:16:15,990 --> 00:16:19,950 You are the worst. No one hates anybody. But we're honest. You 275 00:16:19,950 --> 00:16:24,000 know that. We got no time for politics. We really don't. We 276 00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:28,020 got no money for politics. How about that? I got no money for 277 00:16:28,020 --> 00:16:31,380 politics. Sorry, interrupted. Go ahead. Well know you invited our 278 00:16:31,380 --> 00:16:34,170 guests. So why don't you give them an intro? 279 00:16:35,250 --> 00:16:39,450 Oh, john, and Justin from transistor. Welcome to the show. 280 00:16:39,509 --> 00:16:41,009 Oh, damn. Great intro. 281 00:16:45,630 --> 00:16:47,160 JOHN, john and Justin. 282 00:16:49,380 --> 00:16:50,580 Yeah, yeah. 283 00:16:50,610 --> 00:16:51,390 Okay. That 284 00:16:51,389 --> 00:16:55,199 guy. Justin Jackson transistor, Fei. 285 00:16:55,649 --> 00:17:01,199 Yeah. Dave. I signed up for this gig. Because those intros man I 286 00:17:01,199 --> 00:17:03,419 would, I would sign up to hear those all day long. 287 00:17:03,749 --> 00:17:06,569 doing a podcast with Adam. It's just like, you just turn on the 288 00:17:06,569 --> 00:17:09,419 fire hose. This is great. But the 289 00:17:09,419 --> 00:17:13,619 auto and auto complete. I mean, that is? Well, 290 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,650 I mean, this is a new feature Dave's been working on he isn't 291 00:17:16,650 --> 00:17:19,170 done yet. He got an autocomplete endpoint, don't you? 292 00:17:19,769 --> 00:17:21,989 This should be a safe it. There's gonna be a chapter 293 00:17:21,989 --> 00:17:26,069 whenever. Whenever Dred Scott puts the chapters together? Yes. 294 00:17:26,069 --> 00:17:33,299 Episode is just one of them's gonna be called Davis sad. face. 295 00:17:33,329 --> 00:17:37,739 Yeah. And the other one's gonna be called Is it done yet? Every 296 00:17:37,739 --> 00:17:39,929 week, there's gonna be one called Is it done yet? No, it is 297 00:17:39,929 --> 00:17:42,899 not done yet. Okay, it isn't. It's not done. I got a curve. 298 00:17:42,930 --> 00:17:46,140 I got some curveballs. See, this is this is what I know that Dave 299 00:17:46,230 --> 00:17:49,770 is, like, he's a little bored is when all of a sudden they're 300 00:17:49,770 --> 00:17:52,830 like this new feature is like, I'm doing this now. Like, holy 301 00:17:52,830 --> 00:17:53,370 crap. 302 00:17:54,660 --> 00:17:55,350 Am I right? 303 00:17:56,219 --> 00:18:01,229 That's what that's that. Justin. And john, are you Dr. Y'all both 304 00:18:01,229 --> 00:18:01,919 developers. 305 00:18:02,460 --> 00:18:06,930 Now. Now in our partnership, john is the developer. So this 306 00:18:06,930 --> 00:18:10,290 is making me look real bad, because now he's going to expect 307 00:18:10,650 --> 00:18:14,340 a similar Adam Curry treatment. Every time he releases something 308 00:18:14,340 --> 00:18:14,730 new. 309 00:18:15,780 --> 00:18:17,700 Just talk like you're no you're talking about? 310 00:18:18,570 --> 00:18:19,440 Exactly. That's 311 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:21,900 what I do. That's what we that's what we do every week. 312 00:18:23,339 --> 00:18:26,099 All right. So john, come on in here. You're the you're the 313 00:18:26,099 --> 00:18:28,349 developer of the two with the with the deep breath with the 314 00:18:28,349 --> 00:18:29,219 deep voice. 315 00:18:29,609 --> 00:18:31,619 Yep, that's me, Kofi. 316 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,620 That's what I was gonna say when Adam asked if that was true, if 317 00:18:34,620 --> 00:18:37,830 I was bored as well. Yeah, john. I mean, of course, that's what 318 00:18:37,830 --> 00:18:40,410 happens. You do stuff and you get you start working on 319 00:18:40,410 --> 00:18:42,360 infrastructure stuff, and it gets boring. And then you just 320 00:18:42,360 --> 00:18:44,670 have to like, shake it up and do so I can 321 00:18:44,700 --> 00:18:47,160 I can relate. I have. I've been I've had multiple projects going 322 00:18:47,190 --> 00:18:49,710 on once and then I just switch between them until I can finish 323 00:18:49,710 --> 00:18:53,940 one. Yeah, it's like Justin, Justin knows. Yeah. 324 00:18:55,260 --> 00:18:58,440 So Justin, to the frustration of everybody else. 325 00:18:58,500 --> 00:19:03,120 Yeah. So Justin and john, together founded transistors hit 326 00:19:03,120 --> 00:19:03,990 transistor or 327 00:19:06,839 --> 00:19:11,609 transistor, FM. Some people don't like putting their domain 328 00:19:11,609 --> 00:19:14,489 extension in there. But for me, that's like free marketing. It's 329 00:19:14,489 --> 00:19:19,319 transistor.fm is the site. But it's, it's legally just 330 00:19:19,319 --> 00:19:20,039 transistor. 331 00:19:20,460 --> 00:19:24,390 Yeah, I like this name. Because for me, it triggers all kinds of 332 00:19:24,390 --> 00:19:27,930 radio, visions of a transistor radio that may not have even 333 00:19:27,930 --> 00:19:30,780 been the intent behind the name. But give us a bit of the 334 00:19:30,780 --> 00:19:34,140 backstory because it's a relatively young hosting 335 00:19:34,140 --> 00:19:35,730 company, I think a couple years, right. 336 00:19:36,660 --> 00:19:41,040 That's right. Yeah. JOHN, do you want to do you want to give the 337 00:19:41,550 --> 00:19:48,120 guy and try to give a short history? Let's see. So it we'd 338 00:19:48,120 --> 00:19:50,850 launched officially in August of 2018. 339 00:19:50,849 --> 00:19:53,309 I think that right? Yeah. August 2, yeah. 340 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:59,670 Okay, so August 2018. But the actual code it started in the 341 00:19:59,700 --> 00:20:05,400 end of 2017, I was working for Cards Against Humanity, and they 342 00:20:05,460 --> 00:20:10,680 were doing a big holiday event. And one of those was a podcast 343 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:15,720 they were releasing. And I was a developer there. And it 344 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:20,160 previously worked on a podcasting platform. kind of 345 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,950 thinking about doing another one building my own, again, by 346 00:20:22,950 --> 00:20:29,610 myself. And so with that, I had the opportunity to sort of build 347 00:20:29,610 --> 00:20:32,040 something simple just for that one podcast, which then 348 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:38,310 eventually spun out into transistor. So they were nice 349 00:20:38,310 --> 00:20:41,160 enough to let me work on side projects, which they kind of let 350 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:45,120 everyone do. And then I had known Justin for years back for 351 00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:48,480 meeting him at Expo Expo down in, in Portland, OR over in 352 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:53,580 Portland, whichever direction you want to go. And we've been 353 00:20:53,580 --> 00:20:57,060 talking about doing something together for a long time, I sort 354 00:20:57,060 --> 00:21:01,260 of wanted to do transistor on my own, based on just previous 355 00:21:01,260 --> 00:21:05,970 experience with some with a co founder. But, but the more I 356 00:21:05,970 --> 00:21:09,480 thought about it, I was like, I don't really I don't have any 357 00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:12,180 idea how to market this thing. Right. So it's just me a 358 00:21:12,180 --> 00:21:16,440 developer, I would basically do nothing to market it. And 359 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,680 Justin, I kind of wanted to do something starting in 2018. So 360 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:26,220 we decided to partner up and made it legal. And kind of been 361 00:21:26,220 --> 00:21:31,740 going from there. We went full time last summer. I believe, 362 00:21:31,770 --> 00:21:35,670 yeah. Almost a year, exactly. To a year after we launched 363 00:21:35,670 --> 00:21:40,380 officially. So August 2019. And bootstrap the whole thing. 364 00:21:40,410 --> 00:21:42,600 That's a pretty generous retelling, actually, because 365 00:21:42,870 --> 00:21:46,890 when john told me he was working on this, I begged him. I'm john. 366 00:21:46,950 --> 00:21:49,770 I said, john, you gotta let me You gotta let me partner up with 367 00:21:49,770 --> 00:21:51,960 you on this. We got to do this together. 368 00:21:52,020 --> 00:21:53,730 Yeah, I didn't want to mention the desperation, but 369 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:57,570 perfectly played perfectly. 370 00:21:59,130 --> 00:22:03,300 Now what now? Why? So john, you're a developer. So you'd 371 00:22:03,300 --> 00:22:07,350 like to what you were doing you developed it? Was there a Did 372 00:22:07,350 --> 00:22:10,290 you see that there was a an opportunity in the market? Or 373 00:22:10,290 --> 00:22:13,050 was the market so small? Because you know, there's a number of 374 00:22:13,380 --> 00:22:16,650 players out there. Yeah. And Justin, why were you begging 375 00:22:16,650 --> 00:22:18,930 man? What the hell were you thinking? Taking a vow of 376 00:22:19,020 --> 00:22:20,940 poverty getting into podcasting? 377 00:22:21,089 --> 00:22:21,599 Yeah. 378 00:22:22,650 --> 00:22:24,720 Well, I mean, I thought there was still an opportunity. I 379 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,660 know, there were there were even two, three years ago, a number 380 00:22:27,660 --> 00:22:33,510 of posts. There's obviously more now, but I thought there was a 381 00:22:33,510 --> 00:22:36,690 huge potential in podcasting. I just had fun working on it. 382 00:22:37,230 --> 00:22:41,100 Previously, in my in a previous iteration for a different 383 00:22:41,100 --> 00:22:46,230 service. Guys, I just I really, I liked the podcasting landscape 384 00:22:46,230 --> 00:22:49,050 I liked kind of who was involved in it. I like the open nature of 385 00:22:49,050 --> 00:22:55,080 it. It just seemed like they were pieces of like the original 386 00:22:55,140 --> 00:23:01,650 internet frontier still in podcasting. And, yeah, it was a 387 00:23:01,650 --> 00:23:04,560 tough business, a fun, fun project to work on. All the 388 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,830 customers are great, great to work with. People seem really 389 00:23:07,830 --> 00:23:12,000 excited about podcasting. And yeah, I just, you know, had some 390 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:14,730 previous knowledge of it and wanted to just build something 391 00:23:14,730 --> 00:23:18,930 up from scratch again, and no, one of those developer pitches 392 00:23:18,930 --> 00:23:19,800 you got to scratch 393 00:23:19,890 --> 00:23:23,100 and just, you were big, you were begging to get in what did you 394 00:23:23,100 --> 00:23:23,340 see? 395 00:23:23,339 --> 00:23:28,919 Yeah, well, see, I started podcast in 2012. And I've always 396 00:23:28,919 --> 00:23:33,629 been in software. So on the product management side, and I 397 00:23:33,629 --> 00:23:36,779 used to have folks come to me all the time, you know, between 398 00:23:36,779 --> 00:23:43,169 2012 2013 2014 developer saying, Oh, you know, I got a great idea 399 00:23:43,169 --> 00:23:47,369 for podcasters. And I always said, don't build that, because 400 00:23:49,289 --> 00:23:53,549 the podcast market back then, was mostly di wires and 401 00:23:53,549 --> 00:23:56,759 hobbyists and, you know, people that wanted to do things 402 00:23:56,759 --> 00:24:01,259 themselves, they didn't like paying for things. And that this 403 00:24:01,259 --> 00:24:05,399 swit the the trend that I saw developing that got me more 404 00:24:05,399 --> 00:24:10,739 excited, is you still had this indie podcast scene. But 405 00:24:10,739 --> 00:24:14,999 increasingly, those folks were okay with paying for posting and 406 00:24:14,999 --> 00:24:20,609 analytics and other things. But then you also had just way more 407 00:24:20,609 --> 00:24:24,929 mindshare. So when I was in the coffee shop, people weren't just 408 00:24:24,929 --> 00:24:27,809 talking about what apps they were installing on their phone 409 00:24:27,809 --> 00:24:30,779 or what they were watching on Netflix. They started you know, 410 00:24:30,779 --> 00:24:34,169 saying hey, I'm listening to this new podcast, and it like 411 00:24:34,169 --> 00:24:37,559 when I heard it the first couple times in a coffee shop. It made 412 00:24:37,559 --> 00:24:40,979 me stop in my tracks like what nor normals are talking about 413 00:24:40,979 --> 00:24:45,029 podcasts. Like they figured out how to you know, find a podcast 414 00:24:45,029 --> 00:24:49,019 app and subscribe subscribe to an RSS feed like what is going 415 00:24:49,019 --> 00:24:55,139 on and so and, and all of these kind of big cultural touchstones 416 00:24:55,499 --> 00:24:58,589 like cereal and you know, and then everything that happened 417 00:24:58,589 --> 00:25:02,309 after cereal that you New York Times publishing a podcasting op 418 00:25:02,309 --> 00:25:06,179 ed every single week, it just felt like there's this 419 00:25:06,419 --> 00:25:11,399 burgeoning wave. And now and then companies starting to 420 00:25:11,399 --> 00:25:16,649 invest in it right yet. branded podcasts and, and even companies 421 00:25:16,649 --> 00:25:20,459 that I knew that like Basecamp, which is a relatively small, you 422 00:25:20,459 --> 00:25:23,849 know, software company, they hire two full time people and 423 00:25:23,849 --> 00:25:27,689 built a studio to have a little podcast, you know, set up, 424 00:25:27,719 --> 00:25:32,039 right? That's, that's at least $200,000 a year prop maybe even 425 00:25:32,039 --> 00:25:37,049 more, like, wow, if they're willing to spend that much on, 426 00:25:37,619 --> 00:25:42,149 you know, hiring some podcasters, then spending, you 427 00:25:42,149 --> 00:25:45,029 know, $99 a month on podcast hosting might not be a stretch 428 00:25:45,029 --> 00:25:45,389 for them. 429 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,260 So do you. What is your your target client base? I mean, it 430 00:25:49,260 --> 00:25:53,610 seems like you're, you're offering everything we take care 431 00:25:53,610 --> 00:25:56,310 of it, make sure that your podcast is published on all the 432 00:25:56,310 --> 00:25:59,880 platforms and you got your status, that's still a big a big 433 00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:02,610 draw for customers that the big one yeah, 434 00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:06,150 to be unlike at first we thought our audience was going to be 435 00:26:06,150 --> 00:26:11,850 businesses. But it turns out that there's like the big draw 436 00:26:11,850 --> 00:26:16,770 is people searching? How do I start a podcast, or best podcast 437 00:26:16,770 --> 00:26:18,240 hosting? And 438 00:26:18,390 --> 00:26:21,780 I see right here how to start a podcast right on your menu use 439 00:26:21,780 --> 00:26:24,060 you slide little Seo? w. 440 00:26:24,390 --> 00:26:26,100 Yeah, 441 00:26:26,099 --> 00:26:26,909 that's all Justin. 442 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,790 But, you know, there's there is a lot of people who want that 443 00:26:32,790 --> 00:26:38,190 kind of help. And so they're looking for a simple tool that 444 00:26:38,190 --> 00:26:41,610 people don't think about, like most podcasters are not thinking 445 00:26:41,610 --> 00:26:44,040 about RSS, they're not thinking, all they're thinking about is 446 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:48,960 how do I get my audio out into the world? And whatever is the 447 00:26:49,410 --> 00:26:53,010 the easiest, or the most friendly, or the most efficient 448 00:26:53,190 --> 00:26:57,690 way to do that is what, that's what they want. We have folks 449 00:26:57,900 --> 00:27:01,650 switching from Ankur, which is a free product that switched to us 450 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:03,600 just to get customer support. 451 00:27:05,550 --> 00:27:09,030 Yeah, it's a big one. I've heard a lot about this. And people 452 00:27:09,030 --> 00:27:10,710 really like the customer service. 453 00:27:11,159 --> 00:27:15,989 Yeah, yeah. And so I think we do have a lot of businesses that 454 00:27:15,989 --> 00:27:18,689 sign up. And that's a great, you know, that's, it's great to have 455 00:27:18,689 --> 00:27:22,889 those folks. But I think what john and I really dig is the 456 00:27:22,919 --> 00:27:27,869 Indies, people just in their basement, buy a microphone, and 457 00:27:28,049 --> 00:27:32,909 have something to say and want to get it I like growing up, I 458 00:27:32,909 --> 00:27:38,009 always wanted to start my own talk radio, you know, radio 459 00:27:38,009 --> 00:27:42,899 station. And I actually knew a guy that bought a radio station. 460 00:27:42,929 --> 00:27:45,479 He was a friend of my dad's and I, you know, I went up to him 461 00:27:45,479 --> 00:27:47,999 when I was a kid and said, How do I do that? Like, how do I own 462 00:27:47,999 --> 00:27:51,629 my own station? And he was like, well, it's millions of dollars. 463 00:27:51,629 --> 00:27:57,419 Justin. Are you are you can go like serve coffee for years and 464 00:27:57,419 --> 00:28:01,649 years and maybe get on the microphone. And the idea that 465 00:28:01,649 --> 00:28:07,889 now with, you know, a $99 USB microphone, and then you know, a 466 00:28:07,889 --> 00:28:12,149 service like transistor, you can have your own talk radio 467 00:28:12,239 --> 00:28:16,379 station. That's an attractive idea to a lot of people. 468 00:28:17,730 --> 00:28:21,180 Yes, the and the non live nature of it, I think makes it 469 00:28:21,180 --> 00:28:24,300 attainable for a lot of people, they just say, Well, if I mess 470 00:28:24,300 --> 00:28:27,930 up, I just go back and clean it up later. And I don't have to 471 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,080 have you know, I don't have to have the terror of having live 472 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,630 radio and that kind of thing that will make you shut down 473 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,110 makes it a little bit more accessible for the average human 474 00:28:37,110 --> 00:28:39,900 to think that they can, you know, pull that off and not be 475 00:28:39,900 --> 00:28:43,320 embarrassed about what the final product looks like. Yeah, yeah. 476 00:28:43,380 --> 00:28:48,060 I think it's cool that he did talking about it, podcasting, 477 00:28:48,060 --> 00:28:51,120 feeling like sort of early internet days. I totally agree 478 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:55,080 with that. Because Yeah, it's there's this I remember back, 479 00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:59,160 oh, gosh, this is probably been 20 years ago now and are close 480 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:03,000 to it. And I was heavy writing a lot of assembly language at the 481 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,810 time. And we're in one of the one of the things were 482 00:29:06,810 --> 00:29:08,550 you in prison? What the hell were you thinking? 483 00:29:10,470 --> 00:29:15,000 It's even worse. It was on Windows. On Windows. Yeah, using 484 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:20,460 the masm 32 packages. But they one of the things that was so 485 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,460 interesting to me about that whole thing, I think probably a 486 00:29:23,460 --> 00:29:26,670 lot of, you know, sysadmin developer type people think this 487 00:29:26,670 --> 00:29:29,880 way is that you could understand what you were doing like you 488 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,540 could one of the first things I wrote was a podcast downloader 489 00:29:33,540 --> 00:29:37,260 and this podcasting was very, extremely new at the time. And 490 00:29:37,380 --> 00:29:41,370 it was parsing the RSS feed and all that jazz. And you had to 491 00:29:41,370 --> 00:29:46,890 actually make the HTTP one, you know, one dot one call it in, 492 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:50,100 you know, your your hand coding the protocol 493 00:29:50,099 --> 00:29:51,599 doing this in assembly language. 494 00:29:51,900 --> 00:29:56,220 Yeah, and it's in languages, right? Yeah. And it's still got 495 00:29:56,220 --> 00:29:58,710 the code out of post. It is kind of crazy, but you're doing 496 00:29:58,740 --> 00:30:03,120 you're making all the code He calls and stuff. And it felt fun 497 00:30:03,330 --> 00:30:06,540 to actually be able to like, understand the protocols as 498 00:30:06,540 --> 00:30:10,770 they're being used. You know, in now, today, your most 499 00:30:10,770 --> 00:30:15,570 development is so many layers removed from the actual, you 500 00:30:15,570 --> 00:30:19,830 know, wire wire level protocols and the actual, you know, low 501 00:30:19,860 --> 00:30:23,760 underlying technology that it feels, you're just like, Oh, I 502 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:26,070 need to do this, I'll just go get a library and plug it in, 503 00:30:26,070 --> 00:30:28,950 and I'll just pay no, that's fine. But then you never, you 504 00:30:28,950 --> 00:30:32,790 don't have that sort of thrill of being able to kind of get in 505 00:30:32,790 --> 00:30:35,640 and really dig down deep and understand something to do it on 506 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:38,100 a protocol level. But you still have kind of had that in 507 00:30:38,100 --> 00:30:41,790 podcasting. It's fine. You get to parse the RSS, you get to do 508 00:30:41,790 --> 00:30:45,780 all these interesting coding challenges. It's, it does feel 509 00:30:45,780 --> 00:30:46,530 like old internet. 510 00:30:46,770 --> 00:30:49,020 Yeah, there's a lot of a lot of interesting things you can do 511 00:30:49,020 --> 00:30:54,060 around a very simple protocol. Which RSS, which I really hope 512 00:30:54,060 --> 00:30:56,460 will stick around. I mean, this has its limitations, obviously. 513 00:30:56,460 --> 00:30:56,700 And 514 00:30:56,820 --> 00:30:59,910 you know, what I heard a lot of a lot of over the past few days, 515 00:31:00,330 --> 00:31:03,930 people emailing, even saying, Can I do video with this? 516 00:31:03,930 --> 00:31:07,890 Because YouTube is like, gonna, I'm gonna take my channel down 517 00:31:07,890 --> 00:31:14,910 and like, yes, yes. All this stuff works. It's there. 518 00:31:15,510 --> 00:31:19,620 Yeah, that's going to be an interesting journey. And I've 519 00:31:19,650 --> 00:31:24,510 resisted doing video, but even a platform comparison between 520 00:31:24,510 --> 00:31:29,760 YouTube and podcasting. And RSS is, it's kind of having its 521 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:35,190 moment right now. Because we've seen what the, the, you know, 522 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:40,770 the owned platform looks like YouTube came in, they bought out 523 00:31:40,770 --> 00:31:44,820 a lot of indie video people at the beginning, they captured all 524 00:31:44,820 --> 00:31:48,450 that market, and now they own it. And, you know, for a while 525 00:31:48,450 --> 00:31:51,960 creators, were happy to publish on there, and have YouTube, pay 526 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:56,340 them add, you know, add, share, or whatever. But once somebody 527 00:31:56,370 --> 00:32:01,920 owns the means of distribution. So now that means of production 528 00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,280 have been that's been democratized, everybody now has 529 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,790 the ability to turn on a microphone, or a camera, and 530 00:32:08,940 --> 00:32:12,300 create their own stuff. But now what's being locked down is 531 00:32:12,300 --> 00:32:17,130 distribution. And, again, you know, especially during the 532 00:32:17,130 --> 00:32:20,970 pandemic, some creators saw their YouTube ad share, get cut, 533 00:32:21,330 --> 00:32:23,970 and you know, all sudden the algorithm is no longer showing 534 00:32:23,970 --> 00:32:29,580 their stuff. And in podcasting, with, with Spotify, we now have 535 00:32:29,580 --> 00:32:34,860 the same kind of risk is there's this big platform that wants to 536 00:32:34,860 --> 00:32:40,290 be the YouTube of audio. And I do think there's, this is kind 537 00:32:40,290 --> 00:32:44,940 of a pivotal moment in podcasting, our podcast creators 538 00:32:45,270 --> 00:32:49,440 going to go the same ways. You check YouTubers and be owned by 539 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:53,010 the platform? Or are they going to keep their independence and 540 00:32:53,010 --> 00:32:56,220 figure out other ways of, you know, making the money work? 541 00:32:56,910 --> 00:33:02,040 Well, that that is partially up to you partially up to the app 542 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:06,390 developers and partially up to us for and I'll take some of 543 00:33:06,390 --> 00:33:09,660 that responsibility to get the word out there that there's an 544 00:33:09,660 --> 00:33:15,180 entire universe, we are making a difference. There's been, we're 545 00:33:15,180 --> 00:33:19,800 seeing the uptake, in not only just apps, they're integrating 546 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:26,250 who see the see the value in it, we'll see exactly how I think 547 00:33:26,250 --> 00:33:30,180 the experience is what it comes down to. And that's why you've 548 00:33:30,180 --> 00:33:33,180 always seen people have their favorite podcast app, because it 549 00:33:33,180 --> 00:33:36,810 has that one little feature they love. And sure a lot of people 550 00:33:36,810 --> 00:33:39,660 like I just whatever Apple has is fine. But once they 551 00:33:39,660 --> 00:33:42,480 introduced to that one extra feature they like it could be 552 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:46,860 simple as a share. And features is where we're gonna win 553 00:33:46,860 --> 00:33:50,100 initially. And money is where we're definitely going to move 554 00:33:50,100 --> 00:33:54,690 ahead. Which brings me to podcasting. 2.02 point out where 555 00:33:54,690 --> 00:33:59,070 you guys are, I think, as integrated and compliant as 556 00:33:59,070 --> 00:34:02,520 possible at this point, am I correct? in assuming Yeah, 557 00:34:02,790 --> 00:34:05,550 because you guys as transcript transcripts, of course, the 558 00:34:05,550 --> 00:34:08,580 logtag funding chapters soundbite 559 00:34:08,639 --> 00:34:10,769 and we don't have we don't have all that stuff. You don't have 560 00:34:10,769 --> 00:34:12,599 all of that. We only have two of them 561 00:34:13,290 --> 00:34:14,670 locked in funding, whereas 562 00:34:14,700 --> 00:34:18,390 we're as compliant as we can be. Technologically because we 563 00:34:18,420 --> 00:34:24,270 don't. Right now have support for chapters. Shame on you. 564 00:34:24,540 --> 00:34:27,390 That that was Adam's way of public shaming. 565 00:34:27,900 --> 00:34:32,040 Actually, I was looking at new podcast apps calm and it says 566 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,410 that you have all those features. So I guess I was 567 00:34:34,410 --> 00:34:35,010 wrong. Yes. 568 00:34:35,070 --> 00:34:36,960 That's the way to light a fire under arrest, I guess. 569 00:34:38,130 --> 00:34:40,860 Well, it's on the side. So you better have you better had a 570 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:43,830 good luck. 571 00:34:43,980 --> 00:34:46,170 Good luck, by the way. I don't know which site that is. Yeah. 572 00:34:46,170 --> 00:34:49,950 So we Yeah, we do support locking and, and funding. And we 573 00:34:49,950 --> 00:34:53,850 do integrate with the podcast index API directly so people can 574 00:34:53,850 --> 00:34:55,170 just submit with one click. 575 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,590 Very nice. And yet, what is your roadmap look like? Do you think 576 00:34:58,590 --> 00:35:01,740 you'll be supporting chapters And transcripts? 577 00:35:03,240 --> 00:35:05,700 Yeah, I think so I mean, transcripts. Yeah, we have to 578 00:35:05,700 --> 00:35:09,030 build a new way for people to upload those people often ask 579 00:35:09,030 --> 00:35:12,360 for auto transcription, which I don't. I mean, we'll have to tie 580 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,490 into a different third party service for that, if we do 581 00:35:14,490 --> 00:35:19,830 that think otter.ai may have the may have an API that you can 582 00:35:19,830 --> 00:35:21,090 access for that. Okay. 583 00:35:21,810 --> 00:35:23,550 Yeah, it's it's one of those things where we kind of want to 584 00:35:23,550 --> 00:35:25,890 do it right, instead of do it fast. 585 00:35:26,370 --> 00:35:27,690 So what can we do to help? 586 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,160 I mean, you, you guys got to keep blazing trail. That's the 587 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:34,920 whole point, just because just because we're a few miles behind 588 00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,170 you, that doesn't mean you shouldn't keep blazing the 589 00:35:37,170 --> 00:35:37,560 trail, 590 00:35:37,740 --> 00:35:44,460 I guess maybe I mean it differently. So I realize with 591 00:35:44,460 --> 00:35:51,450 my developer hat on, which is a very nice paper, I realize what, 592 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,750 you know, when when chapters comes out, and, you know, it's 593 00:35:54,750 --> 00:35:57,840 like, oh, and here it is, and you just put this JSON to this 594 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:01,170 file over here. I realized that, oh, wait a minute. That means 595 00:36:01,170 --> 00:36:04,140 you guys got to figure out a way internally to have yet another 596 00:36:04,140 --> 00:36:09,420 file. That is that is hosted and loaded and linked and cetera. 597 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:13,200 And I know that takes, you know, that takes some thought and some 598 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:16,560 time to integrate that to have it worked the right way. So yes. 599 00:36:16,620 --> 00:36:20,760 So when moving forward, as we come up with stuff. Do you have 600 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:24,810 preferences from your end of the ecosystem? Like, well, gee, if 601 00:36:24,810 --> 00:36:27,840 we could put it all in the RSS, that would be better, because x, 602 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,230 y, and z? Or we'd rather have all this stuff external? I mean, 603 00:36:31,230 --> 00:36:33,900 that's the kind of stuff I'm looking for. How can we blaze 604 00:36:33,900 --> 00:36:37,560 the trail and not leave just ashes for you to just sweep? 605 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,960 I mean, I would personally prefer it not to be the rssb 606 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:44,970 just because those things get huge. I mean, if you stuffed the 607 00:36:44,970 --> 00:36:48,060 entire transcript into an RSS feed, yeah, I would use that I'm 608 00:36:48,060 --> 00:36:48,900 with you. Yeah. 609 00:36:50,190 --> 00:36:52,650 Yeah, that's what all the hosts are said. Yeah. Adding 610 00:36:52,650 --> 00:36:56,700 on adding on external things like that to external URLs, I 611 00:36:56,700 --> 00:36:57,900 think is probably the way to go. 612 00:36:59,190 --> 00:37:03,570 Yes, this this was said by and I was reading this and something 613 00:37:03,570 --> 00:37:09,300 that pod news headset had had in their newsletter. And then think 614 00:37:09,300 --> 00:37:14,340 Tom Ross, who posted this is a quote from Dave's Rob. So Rob, I 615 00:37:14,340 --> 00:37:17,250 know he knows his name, charitable and he said closed 616 00:37:17,250 --> 00:37:19,980 versus open as Spotify expands their suite of exclusive 617 00:37:19,980 --> 00:37:23,220 content. And others, like Amazon and Apple enter the fray will 618 00:37:23,220 --> 00:37:26,820 begin to see more competition between closed platforms and the 619 00:37:26,820 --> 00:37:30,660 open RSS based ecosystem. I believe that open open ecosystem 620 00:37:30,660 --> 00:37:33,450 can continue to thrive. Competition is healthy after 621 00:37:33,450 --> 00:37:37,320 all, but the open ecosystem will need to continue to innovate as 622 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,170 an industry to serve listeners, creators and advertisers well, 623 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,800 and I think that like, I think that's right, because my 624 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:48,930 response to that was, I mean, if you have, if you have a podcast 625 00:37:49,140 --> 00:37:53,220 that has all, like, if you just go ahead and think extrapolate 626 00:37:53,220 --> 00:37:56,610 out to the end of phase two, and let's just say that we are of 627 00:37:56,610 --> 00:37:59,280 the namespace, and let's just say that we have location in 628 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:04,320 there, we have person in there, we have named seasons in there. 629 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,950 And we also have social media links in there. If you 630 00:38:07,950 --> 00:38:10,410 extrapolate out to the end of phase two, and you have 631 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:15,270 potentially 10, new tags that give you all this extra stuff. I 632 00:38:15,270 --> 00:38:19,140 mean, like that blows away any closed platform, Spotify doesn't 633 00:38:19,140 --> 00:38:21,900 have all that stuff. Apple podcast, doesn't have all that 634 00:38:21,900 --> 00:38:25,560 stuff, just Stitcher. None of them have that on their closed 635 00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:29,160 platforms, that that open, that paves the way for the open 636 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:33,930 ecosystem, to not just compete, but to actually just bypass. I 637 00:38:33,930 --> 00:38:36,780 mean, like, go miles ahead of any closed system that I know 638 00:38:36,780 --> 00:38:36,930 of. 639 00:38:37,470 --> 00:38:40,920 Mm hmm. And on that note, I think where we can actually help 640 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:45,720 you is we were front lines, we've got customers coming to us 641 00:38:45,750 --> 00:38:49,980 every day that want to accomplish things. And, you 642 00:38:49,980 --> 00:38:53,010 know, like, named seasons is one of them. It's like, Why can I 643 00:38:53,010 --> 00:38:54,930 only choose a number? Oh, yeah, 644 00:38:54,930 --> 00:38:58,620 this is a big one for us, too. And for NPR? Yeah, we're doing 645 00:38:58,620 --> 00:38:59,190 this I 646 00:38:59,370 --> 00:39:04,860 I'm listening to unfinished right now. And it's unfinished, 647 00:39:04,860 --> 00:39:10,590 but it's that they're short Creek season. But I just search 648 00:39:10,590 --> 00:39:14,580 for that in a in an app. It's like, which one is this is 649 00:39:14,700 --> 00:39:17,940 they're stuffing it into the episode title. It's just, it's 650 00:39:17,940 --> 00:39:22,770 not great. And so I think when, when folks on the ground level, 651 00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:26,790 like us, are interacting with customers and real podcasters 652 00:39:27,060 --> 00:39:30,090 and they're saying, they're just trying to figure out how to get 653 00:39:30,090 --> 00:39:34,080 things done. How come I can't name a season? Well, that's not 654 00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:39,030 possible right now. And to have folks like you that are opening 655 00:39:39,030 --> 00:39:42,510 up that possibility, you know, that's a, that's a could be a 656 00:39:42,510 --> 00:39:46,290 big deal for us. It allows us to build features that people want. 657 00:39:46,410 --> 00:39:49,950 Now how when so when you have customers saying well, I want to 658 00:39:49,950 --> 00:39:54,030 be able to name it X, Y or Z and then we have the and that'll be 659 00:39:54,030 --> 00:39:59,310 in phase two. We have the seasons tag, a season tag, but 660 00:39:59,310 --> 00:40:04,200 that will be likely require one of, you know, five or six 661 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,590 different apps that are truly compliant with it. And I don't 662 00:40:07,590 --> 00:40:12,210 know. And Dave chime in if this will break. If this will break 663 00:40:12,240 --> 00:40:15,360 ordinate does not show up at all, unlike the apple podcast 664 00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:19,410 app, you know, so how do you can you sell that to your clients by 665 00:40:19,410 --> 00:40:22,110 saying, well, it's new, and here's the apps that do it. But 666 00:40:22,110 --> 00:40:24,300 it's not it's not the Apple App. 667 00:40:24,689 --> 00:40:28,259 Yeah. I mean, there's, there's no, there's already this mess in 668 00:40:28,439 --> 00:40:31,709 in podcasting. So we're always having to explain, you know, 669 00:40:31,709 --> 00:40:34,919 why, what, why can't I add a private podcasting is huge for 670 00:40:34,919 --> 00:40:38,489 us. How come? I can't add it to Spotify? Well, that's 671 00:40:38,489 --> 00:40:44,219 not the opposite of the opposite. Yeah. 672 00:40:45,029 --> 00:40:47,699 It's a tricky, tricky thing, too, when you're building out an 673 00:40:47,699 --> 00:40:50,129 interface for someone to even manage their podcast with us, 674 00:40:50,129 --> 00:40:54,629 right? So you if we support named seasons, but Apple doesn't 675 00:40:54,629 --> 00:40:59,189 support that, you did then have to have like a different input 676 00:40:59,189 --> 00:41:02,759 for specially for Apple season numbers. And then you have 677 00:41:02,759 --> 00:41:05,219 another iPad, or a named one. And I'm working 678 00:41:05,220 --> 00:41:08,400 on that, by the way. That's one of the I'm, I'm hopefully I'm 679 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:12,780 presenting the namespace to the Apple podcast team in January. 680 00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:15,960 Cool. So we'll see. Cool, man, 681 00:41:15,990 --> 00:41:20,910 how can we help with that? Yeah. Show show show up with the mob. 682 00:41:20,940 --> 00:41:23,940 Well show more podcasts that have this in their feed. I mean, 683 00:41:23,940 --> 00:41:26,910 that's, that's really that's really the way it's, it's a 684 00:41:26,910 --> 00:41:30,450 chicken in the egg. You know, it's, it's, and so yeah. And my 685 00:41:30,450 --> 00:41:35,490 next question to you guys, would be a little bit further down the 686 00:41:35,490 --> 00:41:39,810 road. Are you open to integrating with other parties 687 00:41:39,810 --> 00:41:45,030 to who do like lightning nodes specific stuff so that you can 688 00:41:45,030 --> 00:41:47,580 offer that to your customers? But it would be a third party 689 00:41:47,580 --> 00:41:49,890 that's doing that? Or is that something you want to do 690 00:41:49,890 --> 00:41:53,550 yourself? Are you interested at all when it comes to the real 691 00:41:53,550 --> 00:41:54,330 time? Again, totally 692 00:41:54,330 --> 00:42:01,200 honest with you? I don't know what you're talking about. Maybe 693 00:42:01,230 --> 00:42:03,630 Hey, man, I looked at your Wikipedia What the hell's wrong 694 00:42:03,630 --> 00:42:03,900 with you? 695 00:42:04,620 --> 00:42:06,360 Just say yes. Just say yes, john. 696 00:42:07,530 --> 00:42:08,550 I'm sorry. Okay. 697 00:42:08,940 --> 00:42:10,710 We didn't I didn't even know there was a lightning 698 00:42:10,740 --> 00:42:14,220 documentation until until 15 minutes? Certainly. Yes. 699 00:42:15,630 --> 00:42:20,190 Yes, well, you guys need to see this because we have, there's a 700 00:42:20,580 --> 00:42:23,130 tag that an experimental tag that will be in phase two, 701 00:42:23,130 --> 00:42:26,850 what's called the value block. And in that block our payment 702 00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:30,810 digital payment addresses for Bitcoin but on the lightning 703 00:42:30,810 --> 00:42:33,750 network, which is kind of an off chain, and you can stream it in 704 00:42:33,750 --> 00:42:37,350 real time. So at this moment, while people are listening to 705 00:42:37,350 --> 00:42:40,110 the show people who are on the Sphinx app, which is the only 706 00:42:40,110 --> 00:42:44,250 one that supports everything right now, they're sending 100 707 00:42:44,250 --> 00:42:49,950 satoshis or less, perhaps, per minute to Dave and I, because 708 00:42:49,950 --> 00:42:53,220 we're the host of the show, we produce it. But also, Spinks 709 00:42:53,220 --> 00:42:58,560 takes 1% and 1% is going to the, to the podcast index, and that's 710 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:03,720 infinitely dividable. So you can say I want 5% of this episode to 711 00:43:03,720 --> 00:43:06,930 go towards the guy who's doing chapters for us. And so it's 712 00:43:06,930 --> 00:43:11,700 kind of a royalty system. It's a real time payment system. And 713 00:43:11,700 --> 00:43:15,150 it's all built on the pledge model, which is similar to 714 00:43:15,150 --> 00:43:17,910 donations except you don't have to pay upfront you pay as you 715 00:43:17,910 --> 00:43:21,870 go, you really you play, and then you pay. So it's it works, 716 00:43:21,870 --> 00:43:25,770 whether you have money in your wallet or not. So that's that 717 00:43:25,770 --> 00:43:29,190 we're really driving that so that we can get some some real 718 00:43:29,190 --> 00:43:34,410 revenue flowing amongst podcast, app developers, but also much 719 00:43:34,410 --> 00:43:36,690 more reason for hosting companies to be involved. 720 00:43:36,690 --> 00:43:39,900 Because, you know, now when you have streaming, streaming money, 721 00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,990 you know, there's all kinds of services that can be exchanged 722 00:43:42,990 --> 00:43:43,410 for that. 723 00:43:43,980 --> 00:43:48,150 Yeah. Yeah. I mean, with stuff like that, that really does have 724 00:43:48,150 --> 00:43:50,640 to come from customers, customers have to be saying, 725 00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:55,860 Hey, we want this this thing. And that. So I think, I think 726 00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:59,550 we, I mean, we, if it's if it's relatively easy to implement, 727 00:43:59,550 --> 00:44:01,320 maybe we didn't. Anyway, 728 00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:09,150 I will say that I mean, I think the the funding, funding 729 00:44:09,150 --> 00:44:11,940 donating whatever you want to call it, pledging money to 730 00:44:11,970 --> 00:44:15,270 podcasters themselves, I think that's to make this whole open 731 00:44:15,270 --> 00:44:17,970 ecosystem work. That's gonna be that's huge. 732 00:44:18,090 --> 00:44:21,360 We're gonna have that we're gonna have to, because the 733 00:44:21,420 --> 00:44:25,140 eventually some of these other pay routes will just get, it'll 734 00:44:25,140 --> 00:44:27,600 be too easy to cut it off, you know, right. 735 00:44:27,750 --> 00:44:30,450 Hey, I just sent you some clips. Adam. Yeah, I got him here. 736 00:44:30,900 --> 00:44:35,790 Okay, and the see the, the thing that gets me about that, is that 737 00:44:35,910 --> 00:44:40,290 the, the straight now everything is there's a push for streaming 738 00:44:40,290 --> 00:44:44,580 ads. Yeah. And they they're streaming ad insertion or 739 00:44:44,580 --> 00:44:48,150 dynamic ad insertion. Mm hmm. And I'm just 740 00:44:49,290 --> 00:44:53,430 such as it not work. Not working for you today. Is it not so? So 741 00:44:53,430 --> 00:44:57,150 the way I understand it, the way I understand it, and maybe john 742 00:44:57,150 --> 00:45:00,300 and Justin can do a better job is he got the streaming ad 743 00:45:00,300 --> 00:45:05,700 insertion, which is within Spotify universe only. And that 744 00:45:05,700 --> 00:45:10,350 is, so you can't Fast Forward has a whole bunch of hope. It's 745 00:45:10,380 --> 00:45:12,690 their bait, you're not downloading a file and listening 746 00:45:12,690 --> 00:45:15,390 to it on the fly, you're being streamed bits that they 747 00:45:15,390 --> 00:45:19,500 predetermine, and the dynamic ad insertion is where they inserted 748 00:45:19,500 --> 00:45:22,950 on the way out when you download it, or as you're listening to it 749 00:45:22,950 --> 00:45:27,990 downloading streaming to an app outside of any closed ecosystem, 750 00:45:27,990 --> 00:45:29,820 I think that's what it is the difference? Yeah. 751 00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:34,680 Any of those? Are y'all doing any of the dynamic ads? 752 00:45:34,980 --> 00:45:40,380 We had, we had mapped out what we call dynamic content. We'd 753 00:45:40,380 --> 00:45:43,800 map this out early on maybe a year and a half ago. And we 754 00:45:44,130 --> 00:45:47,280 ultimately shelved it partly because we're a two person team. 755 00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:51,900 And we have to weigh anything we build, like, is this complexity 756 00:45:51,900 --> 00:45:56,430 worth it? Because we want the app to stay relatively simple. 757 00:45:56,670 --> 00:45:59,130 And we still want to have a relatively good life. We don't 758 00:45:59,130 --> 00:46:01,320 want to be maintaining a bunch of complexity. 759 00:46:01,350 --> 00:46:05,490 Yes, streaming ads, and dynamic dynamic ads and dynamic, dynamic 760 00:46:05,490 --> 00:46:09,090 content. It's such, it just opens up such a can of worms, 761 00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:12,480 for support. I mean, it would, it would have been a large 762 00:46:12,660 --> 00:46:15,210 amount of work to get that to work. You know, we 763 00:46:15,210 --> 00:46:18,270 interviewed Dan Benjamin from Firestarter a few weeks ago. And 764 00:46:18,270 --> 00:46:22,650 he he said that the funny thing is that his the customers that 765 00:46:22,650 --> 00:46:25,770 he has that are the ones clamoring for dynamic ad 766 00:46:25,770 --> 00:46:28,200 insertion are all the ones that are probably going to make very 767 00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:29,310 little or no money from of 768 00:46:29,310 --> 00:46:29,700 course, 769 00:46:30,240 --> 00:46:33,570 what we've we've seen this very thing we've had people say, Hey, 770 00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:37,740 we're leaving, because you don't have dynamic ad insertion. And 771 00:46:37,740 --> 00:46:44,430 many times they come back 345 months later, because it even 772 00:46:44,430 --> 00:46:48,510 look at anchors ad network, there's very few people making 773 00:46:48,540 --> 00:46:53,940 any money on on that network. And it's just ads, there's a ton 774 00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:58,590 of podcasters who want to run ads, and there's not that much 775 00:46:58,590 --> 00:47:03,150 supply. So and and there's, there's more big shows than 776 00:47:03,150 --> 00:47:07,080 ever. So I don't think ads for the indie creator is the answer. 777 00:47:07,170 --> 00:47:11,250 That's really interesting. Because Spotify has the inverse. 778 00:47:11,850 --> 00:47:15,690 They have jacked up all their advertisers. And they can't they 779 00:47:15,690 --> 00:47:18,540 don't they can't convert enough people to listen. So that's why 780 00:47:18,540 --> 00:47:21,750 they had to buy megaphone. Yeah, they had to get it they need to 781 00:47:21,750 --> 00:47:25,890 be selling their ads in dynamic ad insertion because they can't 782 00:47:25,890 --> 00:47:26,880 fill the orders. 783 00:47:27,569 --> 00:47:30,029 Because there's a volume like they need more. Yeah, they 784 00:47:30,029 --> 00:47:30,269 can't. 785 00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:34,260 Well, just because you have 300 million people who use your app 786 00:47:34,260 --> 00:47:37,770 to listen to music doesn't mean that bringing in Joe Rogan 787 00:47:37,770 --> 00:47:40,950 converts everybody to podcasts, all of a sudden, they got they 788 00:47:40,950 --> 00:47:44,910 got a little trajectory there. And yes, and I'm not so sure 789 00:47:44,910 --> 00:47:46,170 it's the same customer. 790 00:47:47,850 --> 00:47:52,650 I honestly don't understand why. Like, if you look at SoundCloud, 791 00:47:52,650 --> 00:47:55,440 SoundCloud has been doing dynamic ad insertion forever, 792 00:47:55,530 --> 00:47:59,070 for both music and podcasts. They're losing tons of money 793 00:47:59,100 --> 00:48:01,320 every year. like 794 00:48:02,550 --> 00:48:05,160 losing stuff. That's that's the that's the business model. 795 00:48:06,390 --> 00:48:09,300 Look at quarterly reports for any of these companies that have 796 00:48:09,300 --> 00:48:12,810 advertising. They're all down right now. So it's not making 797 00:48:12,810 --> 00:48:16,410 the big megacorps any money. It's not really making that many 798 00:48:16,410 --> 00:48:19,830 podcasters any money. I'm not saying I think ad should be 799 00:48:19,830 --> 00:48:23,550 completely done away with but I think host read ads are are 800 00:48:23,550 --> 00:48:27,510 better than dynamically inserted ads. And there's other ways for 801 00:48:27,510 --> 00:48:32,160 podcasters to make money. They aren't dynamically inserted ads. 802 00:48:32,190 --> 00:48:35,280 Yeah. So Dave, you had some example of some shitty ads is 803 00:48:35,280 --> 00:48:36,900 that what we're gonna do here? Because I like it. 804 00:48:37,710 --> 00:48:43,410 Oh, yeah. So the the play play clip one now this is not this is 805 00:48:43,410 --> 00:48:45,750 not podcast is not for Spotify or anything like that. This is 806 00:48:45,750 --> 00:48:51,450 from YouTube. But it is this video went around yesterday. And 807 00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:55,890 somebody might texted it to me and I was watching it. And it's 808 00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:59,610 uh, you know, you had these critical moments in the video 809 00:48:59,610 --> 00:49:02,820 where this guy's given testimony in Congress. Right? He's he's 810 00:49:02,820 --> 00:49:06,960 about to say something. Bam, ad, like halfway through a word. 811 00:49:07,020 --> 00:49:11,160 Play clip, one about hearing I hope your testimony would be as 812 00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:16,290 impactful today. Cory. Senator, thank you and thank you for 813 00:49:16,470 --> 00:49:17,430 pulling this here. 814 00:49:19,830 --> 00:49:23,310 US Attorney john Durham has filed the first criminal charges 815 00:49:23,310 --> 00:49:24,180 investigation and 816 00:49:24,180 --> 00:49:26,940 yeah, it's interesting because I think that that video was 817 00:49:26,940 --> 00:49:32,460 actually taken off of Facebook. Facebook, was a Senate hearing 818 00:49:34,230 --> 00:49:36,930 was the immediate was like, hey, screw this, we'll just put that 819 00:49:37,620 --> 00:49:40,050 you'll go away and we'll make some money. Beautiful. 820 00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:43,620 The best one, the best. One is clip three that played out on 821 00:49:43,890 --> 00:49:45,570 August 27. 822 00:49:45,989 --> 00:49:50,639 I want to be clear. I am not here as a politician or to 823 00:49:50,639 --> 00:49:54,749 dramatists or sensationalizing what I'm recommending. I'm going 824 00:49:54,749 --> 00:49:59,009 to be very clear and very simple. All I ask Hey, 825 00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,510 Have you ever seen those shots? 826 00:50:04,739 --> 00:50:06,359 That's fantastic. So the 827 00:50:07,230 --> 00:50:11,400 podcasters, who are clients who are clamoring for dynamic ad 828 00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:11,940 insertion? 829 00:50:12,300 --> 00:50:15,990 Do you want your show to sound like that? a horrible experience 830 00:50:15,990 --> 00:50:19,380 for your customer reminds me so much of early cable when I was 831 00:50:19,380 --> 00:50:23,220 at MTV in the mid to late 80s. And, you know, Manhattan, it'd 832 00:50:23,220 --> 00:50:26,760 be channel, I don't know, 23 or something, maybe a little 833 00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:31,200 higher. But, but, you know, at the time, it's like, people were 834 00:50:31,230 --> 00:50:33,780 laughing at cables. Like, that's not real television, no one's 835 00:50:33,780 --> 00:50:38,190 gonna advertise on cable. And it really was seen as just second 836 00:50:38,190 --> 00:50:43,500 rate dumb. And you'd get these local ads that would be program, 837 00:50:43,500 --> 00:50:46,590 which is at the time was, you know, a guy in a room with 838 00:50:46,590 --> 00:50:50,640 pneumatic videotapes. And you know, shoving them in and 839 00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:53,160 hitting the machines and switching. So you'd always see 840 00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:56,820 like, half of a local car dealership, and they'll be boom 841 00:50:56,820 --> 00:50:59,760 and go to a jewelry commercial, boom, go back to something else, 842 00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:04,050 there's a mess. And it still it still has those problems. 843 00:51:04,140 --> 00:51:06,120 It doesn't seem terribly intelligent. I mean, it seems 844 00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:08,880 like there should be insertion points for some of those 845 00:51:08,940 --> 00:51:12,990 commercials. It's weird that they automatically choose a 846 00:51:12,990 --> 00:51:15,480 point and throw it in, in the middle of someone's speech and 847 00:51:15,510 --> 00:51:19,290 not too much tactical side of it messes up chapters in chapter 848 00:51:19,290 --> 00:51:19,950 timing, and oh, 849 00:51:19,980 --> 00:51:23,550 yeah, that's the thing. This is this is the sliding II, the 850 00:51:23,550 --> 00:51:27,300 slippery slope is first you start with manually choosing 851 00:51:27,300 --> 00:51:30,180 your insertion points. And then you're like, wow, the machines 852 00:51:30,180 --> 00:51:32,850 can just do this for us. Let's just let the machines choose the 853 00:51:32,850 --> 00:51:36,240 insertion points. And then, you know, now you just have machines 854 00:51:36,240 --> 00:51:40,920 programming everything for you. And yeah, it's not very, it's 855 00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:41,670 not good radio, 856 00:51:42,330 --> 00:51:45,990 in the last three in the last three months, like if this same 857 00:51:45,990 --> 00:51:51,840 thing happens to to to the podcast platforms, like Spotify. 858 00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:54,720 And those guys, if the same thing happens there. That 859 00:51:54,720 --> 00:51:57,270 happened on YouTube in the last three months, YouTube has become 860 00:51:57,270 --> 00:51:58,380 almost unwatchable. 861 00:51:59,340 --> 00:52:02,760 Oh, yeah, it's three ads at the beginning. It's, it's, it's 862 00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:03,690 unstoppable. 863 00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:08,070 It's all over. And it was quick to me, like it went from being 864 00:52:08,070 --> 00:52:10,290 sort of tolerable to it was almost like 865 00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:14,670 overnight. Yeah. You see, YouTube has the, I've looked at 866 00:52:14,670 --> 00:52:19,560 all of this, Dave. YouTube has the opposite. They have. I mean, 867 00:52:19,590 --> 00:52:25,290 they have so much advertising, they have the inventory, but 868 00:52:25,290 --> 00:52:28,620 they just double down. They were doing political ads on 869 00:52:28,620 --> 00:52:32,880 children's shows. Which is, which is which is basically 870 00:52:32,910 --> 00:52:35,580 ripping the advertiser off, because it's not the target 871 00:52:35,580 --> 00:52:37,740 market. This 872 00:52:37,770 --> 00:52:40,920 Yeah, I mean, I see my daughter, my 10 year old, she'll watch. 873 00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:44,640 Like, those YouTubers that play video games, she'll watch like 874 00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:47,550 a, it's totally some kids video game. And she's sitting there 875 00:52:47,550 --> 00:52:50,610 watching it. And it's obvious that the target demographic for 876 00:52:50,610 --> 00:52:54,990 this thing is like a 12 year old. And they're in they'll 877 00:52:54,990 --> 00:53:00,270 throw up a, like some kind of pharmaceutical ad. And what a 878 00:53:00,270 --> 00:53:01,650 waste of money. The bottom 879 00:53:01,650 --> 00:53:05,280 line is that if you don't control the distribution, you 880 00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:08,280 can't really control the advertising and take it from me, 881 00:53:08,280 --> 00:53:11,340 I, I started one of the first podcast networks I saw that was 882 00:53:11,340 --> 00:53:14,700 not possible to do, unless you're going to just create 883 00:53:14,700 --> 00:53:18,960 junk. There's a whole lot of a whole lot of problems that comes 884 00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:22,320 along with it. And and we're trying to keep this open in 885 00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:24,870 this, that's the whole point is to have it open and just not 886 00:53:24,870 --> 00:53:28,380 really appropriate for the typical programmatic ads that 887 00:53:28,380 --> 00:53:29,850 they're trying to shoehorn it into. 888 00:53:30,540 --> 00:53:34,440 Yeah, I think the for the podcasters, especially folks 889 00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:38,610 just starting out. I mean, again, we see a lot of patterns 890 00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:41,460 with people signing up, Hey, why are you signing up? And you 891 00:53:41,460 --> 00:53:44,610 know, some people just want to try out a show and whatever, but 892 00:53:44,610 --> 00:53:47,310 a lot of people are trying to start a business, they're trying 893 00:53:47,310 --> 00:53:51,690 to earn some money. And, and, you know, like, right, in the 894 00:53:51,690 --> 00:53:56,820 United States, I think, in 2020, there was three times more 895 00:53:56,820 --> 00:54:00,630 businesses started because of the pandemic, like people are 896 00:54:00,660 --> 00:54:05,100 hungry, kind of metaphorically. And, sure, sure. And, and so 897 00:54:05,130 --> 00:54:08,820 the, and I think, I mean, we can be cynical about that and say, 898 00:54:08,820 --> 00:54:12,450 Wow, they're just never going to make the money. Why even try, I 899 00:54:12,450 --> 00:54:18,990 think the attraction to dynamic ad insertion, and anchor, and, 900 00:54:19,020 --> 00:54:22,260 you know, these things that offer the the opportunity for 901 00:54:22,260 --> 00:54:25,620 money, like the idea of although there could be some money is, is 902 00:54:25,620 --> 00:54:30,150 pretty powerful. And what we what folks need to see is that 903 00:54:30,150 --> 00:54:35,430 there are other ways of earning revenue. And, I mean, you guys 904 00:54:35,430 --> 00:54:37,110 are talking about lightning again, which I have, I don't 905 00:54:37,110 --> 00:54:42,840 really understand but like john and i have a very simple kind of 906 00:54:42,870 --> 00:54:48,600 monthly supporter program for our podcast. And it was 907 00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:51,690 basically a show about us building a software business. 908 00:54:51,930 --> 00:54:53,610 It's, it's, it's, 909 00:54:53,670 --> 00:54:55,050 is that the SAS podcast? 910 00:54:55,140 --> 00:54:59,520 Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's kind of like branded content and people 911 00:54:59,700 --> 00:55:05,460 were Excited to support us? monthly? Exactly. Oh, yeah. Oh, 912 00:55:05,460 --> 00:55:08,700 yeah, no, this is and there was moments where the monthly 913 00:55:08,700 --> 00:55:11,880 support was making more than the software. So 914 00:55:11,940 --> 00:55:16,740 so so I'll give you I'll give you my pitch. When when it comes 915 00:55:16,740 --> 00:55:19,920 to podcast listening. So with the no agenda show, we've 916 00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:24,510 converted between three and 4% of the entire audience to donate 917 00:55:24,510 --> 00:55:30,300 money. Hmm. IAB numbers, 100 million Americans listen to a 918 00:55:30,300 --> 00:55:34,830 podcast regularly average one hour per day, I think we can 919 00:55:34,830 --> 00:55:39,090 convert 1% of that 100 million to give money to a podcast. In 920 00:55:39,090 --> 00:55:42,870 fact, a large percentage of that 1% probably already does it 921 00:55:42,870 --> 00:55:46,290 through PayPal, Patreon. Other ways. 922 00:55:46,710 --> 00:55:47,100 Mm hmm. 923 00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:51,120 If you value and this is where the pitch gets fun, if you value 924 00:55:51,630 --> 00:55:58,680 that hour at $1, and everyone's using an app that will send in 925 00:55:58,680 --> 00:56:02,460 increments $1 an hour to the podcast or listening to that's a 926 00:56:02,460 --> 00:56:05,520 million dollars a day now that is flowing through podcasting. 927 00:56:06,210 --> 00:56:08,040 Yeah, I mean, that's a great dream. And that's 928 00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:09,180 just the bare minimum. 929 00:56:09,390 --> 00:56:11,340 The problem with your pitch, though, is that you're gonna 930 00:56:11,340 --> 00:56:16,170 have to get those 100 million people on some sort of app and 931 00:56:16,170 --> 00:56:19,680 understanding No, no, only one machine, only 1 million, I 932 00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:21,420 don't need 100 million, I need 1 million. 933 00:56:21,660 --> 00:56:25,020 That's true. I mean, well, I guess it all depends on how, how 934 00:56:25,020 --> 00:56:30,180 it funnels down. If you've got, if you've got a if you're saying 935 00:56:30,180 --> 00:56:33,420 that one in 10 people are willing to donate, are you 936 00:56:33,420 --> 00:56:38,430 saying one in 10 are willing to donate but are also like going 937 00:56:38,430 --> 00:56:39,930 to have some sort of blockchain? 938 00:56:40,469 --> 00:56:43,679 just it just a different app, just a different app? And you 939 00:56:43,679 --> 00:56:46,949 can put money into the app? It's it's not. It's not anything 940 00:56:46,949 --> 00:56:48,929 funky? It's just an app? Yeah, it's nothing. It's not. 941 00:56:49,410 --> 00:56:51,840 It doesn't, it doesn't necessarily, it could just be 942 00:56:51,840 --> 00:56:56,040 pre loading it in some way. Some sort of tokens. 943 00:56:56,700 --> 00:57:00,150 You can load it with money out, you can load it with your credit 944 00:57:00,150 --> 00:57:02,790 card. It's literally that simple. Yeah, I 945 00:57:02,790 --> 00:57:05,760 think that that that's probably more palatable. Because the way 946 00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:09,990 people pay for pay for Patreon right now, is I think they go 947 00:57:09,990 --> 00:57:13,230 well, you know, I could probably spend about 40 $45 a month on 948 00:57:13,230 --> 00:57:16,050 this. And then they kind of divvy it up. They're like, Okay, 949 00:57:16,050 --> 00:57:16,680 guys, personally, 950 00:57:17,910 --> 00:57:20,820 this is exactly the same in reverse, where and I believe 951 00:57:20,820 --> 00:57:25,290 there will be apps that you buy with $25 already on it. Oh, 952 00:57:25,290 --> 00:57:28,830 yeah. And then anything, you listen to the payments 953 00:57:28,830 --> 00:57:32,160 automatic, and you can value you so like, Oh, I want this to be 954 00:57:32,430 --> 00:57:36,600 like $2 a minute. Yeah, it was 150 cents a minute, you can set 955 00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:40,050 that individually, all you have to do is, is either purchase a 956 00:57:40,050 --> 00:57:44,160 pre loaded app, which you can then top up or get the app and 957 00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:48,840 then either buy with a credit card or if you have Bitcoin, you 958 00:57:48,840 --> 00:57:49,500 can put it in? 959 00:57:50,100 --> 00:57:54,510 Yeah, you know, the interesting thing is, in consumer 960 00:57:54,510 --> 00:57:58,860 psychology, is it feels like consumers need some sort of 961 00:57:59,580 --> 00:58:04,530 brand space or some sort of mental space in their head in 962 00:58:04,530 --> 00:58:09,120 order to justify the the payment. So as an example, like 963 00:58:09,150 --> 00:58:11,970 before, if I came to you guys and said, Hey, I'm thinking 964 00:58:11,970 --> 00:58:16,230 about building a, you know, consumer product, and I want you 965 00:58:16,230 --> 00:58:20,100 to pay me $100 before I build it, and I'm going to go to a 966 00:58:20,100 --> 00:58:23,790 bunch of people do this, folks would be like, now like that. 967 00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:27,270 That doesn't, that doesn't excite me. But as soon as you 968 00:58:27,270 --> 00:58:32,520 have Kickstarter as a thing, it becomes a space in your head of 969 00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:36,960 like, Oh, well, this is a thing. Like, people do this. And so 970 00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:39,030 then it's like all support a Kickstarter, that becomes 971 00:58:39,030 --> 00:58:44,070 normalized. Or Patreon, I want you to donate to me monthly. How 972 00:58:44,070 --> 00:58:47,160 many people in early blogs and podcasts tried that and it 973 00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:51,060 didn't work? And then all of a sudden, you have this Patreon 974 00:58:51,150 --> 00:58:55,560 kind of space, and habit, or whatever it is. And people are 975 00:58:55,560 --> 00:58:56,610 like, Oh, yeah, I'll do that. 976 00:58:56,640 --> 00:59:02,070 Okay, so I'll address that. One, the donation model has been 977 00:59:02,070 --> 00:59:05,700 working for a long time, or what we call the value for value 978 00:59:05,700 --> 00:59:12,690 model. With just PayPal, people are lazy. So Patreon took away a 979 00:59:12,690 --> 00:59:15,600 lot of the issues for people who are lazy and don't want to do 980 00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:19,350 administration, which is really software as a service is very, 981 00:59:19,350 --> 00:59:25,290 very good idea. Please understand that Patreon has 982 00:59:25,290 --> 00:59:29,850 canceled lots of people. So you know, Patreon is not the end all 983 00:59:29,850 --> 00:59:33,990 be all because they literally have canceled people from their 984 00:59:33,990 --> 00:59:40,140 accounts. The beauty of podcasting is that it is its own 985 00:59:40,140 --> 00:59:45,180 marketing machine. So once there's an app that can scale, 986 00:59:45,180 --> 00:59:49,200 so Spinks app does not scale for the purpose of podcasting the 987 00:59:49,200 --> 00:59:54,450 way I'm thinking of it. Yeah. When I say on no agenda, if I 988 00:59:54,450 --> 00:59:58,290 say hey, check this out. I can guarantee you I'll have 10,000 989 00:59:58,290 --> 01:00:00,510 people using the app tomorrow and then It'll end they'll 990 01:00:00,510 --> 01:00:03,960 figure out how to put money in it. And then when that happens, 991 01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:08,190 they'll they will communicate with the other podcasters they 992 01:00:08,190 --> 01:00:12,600 listen to, and say, Hey, you know, you can make money out, 993 01:00:12,630 --> 01:00:15,120 you can get money while I'm listening to your podcast, why 994 01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:18,480 don't you put this value block into your feed or go to 995 01:00:18,630 --> 01:00:22,410 transistor? And they have it all set for you? Yeah, that's, 996 01:00:22,440 --> 01:00:24,000 that's how the rollout will work. 997 01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:28,620 Yeah, and is, it just seems I agree that that could that could 998 01:00:28,620 --> 01:00:32,520 possibly work. The, the thing I'm just noticing is that 999 01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:37,050 there's this weird thing with consumer behavior of, like, it's 1000 01:00:37,050 --> 01:00:44,520 just weird to me that at scale, like Patreon, kind of built 1001 01:00:44,700 --> 01:00:48,510 monthly donations at scale, they gave it a name and a space. And 1002 01:00:48,510 --> 01:00:51,870 it happened before. But once there was a name, and there's 1003 01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:54,780 alternatives to Patreon, right? There's member fall, there's all 1004 01:00:54,780 --> 01:00:58,170 sorts of other things. But people have their little 1005 01:00:58,170 --> 01:01:01,560 Patreon, like wallet, you know, it's like, this is my little, 1006 01:01:01,590 --> 01:01:05,010 this is a little stash for Patreon. And they've created 1007 01:01:05,010 --> 01:01:10,260 space in their life for that thing. And that's kind of my 1008 01:01:10,290 --> 01:01:14,490 dream for whatever unit like that the donation namespace that 1009 01:01:14,490 --> 01:01:18,030 you're talking about. If there was a maybe it's called, or it's 1010 01:01:18,030 --> 01:01:21,720 called, it's called the podcast, wallet, podcast. Well, maybe 1011 01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:28,200 that's it. As long as it's not, as in some sort of mimetic way. 1012 01:01:29,460 --> 01:01:34,290 Listeners adopt at scale this idea of, Oh, yeah, like normal 1013 01:01:34,290 --> 01:01:37,680 people, like me have a podcast wallet that I put money in every 1014 01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:40,650 month, and support the shows I love. Like that's a normal 1015 01:01:40,650 --> 01:01:45,180 thing. Everybody's doing it. And that's the that seems to always 1016 01:01:45,180 --> 01:01:51,660 be the the tricky part is how do you get this to scale? And part 1017 01:01:51,660 --> 01:01:55,860 of it might be everyone broadcasting about it. Although, 1018 01:01:56,250 --> 01:01:58,920 you know, sometimes that doesn't work. I don't know what all the 1019 01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:01,740 pieces are. It's there's a bunch of things that have to come 1020 01:02:01,740 --> 01:02:05,940 together for it to work. So we have a test environment with 1021 01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:11,670 just, I think, maybe five podcasts 1022 01:02:12,120 --> 01:02:13,980 as nine nine. 1023 01:02:14,130 --> 01:02:20,490 Yeah. And how many people? Do you think that are? 50? Yeah. So 1024 01:02:20,490 --> 01:02:23,820 what are we sent through in one month? $1,000 worth of value was 1025 01:02:23,820 --> 01:02:27,690 running through these shows? Yeah. Yeah. And that's just 1026 01:02:27,690 --> 01:02:31,320 that's just the test group. I mean, it it's, this is this is 1027 01:02:32,340 --> 01:02:35,580 in the station getting ready to go. I mean, once once we have a 1028 01:02:35,910 --> 01:02:40,290 an app that that is outbound on the sending part was just a 1029 01:02:40,290 --> 01:02:44,640 technicality. Mm hmm. I think it's going to go pretty quick. 1030 01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:50,790 It's not something that is it's not something that's easy. For 1031 01:02:50,820 --> 01:02:53,670 me, as far as you know, like, there's been a lot of plumbing 1032 01:02:53,670 --> 01:02:56,760 that's gone into, but then I think I see what you're saying. 1033 01:02:57,900 --> 01:03:01,350 Justin, I think you're, you're saying that there's a it's more 1034 01:03:01,350 --> 01:03:06,210 like a there's a space for not really a brand, but like a 1035 01:03:06,660 --> 01:03:09,240 concept. Word whether 1036 01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:12,300 Patreon is a concept, that's totally a concept that they 1037 01:03:12,300 --> 01:03:14,070 become the Xerox of donation, I 1038 01:03:14,070 --> 01:03:17,850 completely agree. Yeah, it's mostly mostly a cultural issue. 1039 01:03:17,880 --> 01:03:22,230 Sure. How do you how do you get exactly how do you get the 1040 01:03:22,230 --> 01:03:23,880 culture to okay with 1041 01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:28,650 the culture to me is cashapp. This is this is your your next 1042 01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:30,780 if not your current podcast? listener? 1043 01:03:31,380 --> 01:03:32,520 Venmo cash app. 1044 01:03:32,550 --> 01:03:37,230 Yeah, yeah. Venmo cash, the cash app does does Bitcoin, you can 1045 01:03:37,230 --> 01:03:40,740 send Bitcoin, you can load up your podcast wallet with cash 1046 01:03:40,740 --> 01:03:44,460 app. Even better if cash app had a button that said, Here's your 1047 01:03:44,460 --> 01:03:47,400 podcast. No. Yeah, they could do that tomorrow. 1048 01:03:48,450 --> 01:03:52,530 Yeah. How many of yours? How many of yours customers do you 1049 01:03:52,530 --> 01:03:57,960 think are trying to hurt our podcasting? Just because they, 1050 01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:01,860 right, just just just for fun, and versus how many or do you 1051 01:04:01,860 --> 01:04:03,240 think are like trying to make money? 1052 01:04:03,780 --> 01:04:08,250 Oh, man. I mean, I think I don't think any, any of the indie 1053 01:04:08,250 --> 01:04:13,530 shows would turn down somebody supporting their show, like I 1054 01:04:13,740 --> 01:04:20,310 but actively seeking it. I mean, qualitatively, maybe 25 30%. 1055 01:04:20,759 --> 01:04:23,429 That makes me happy. That makes me happy to hear because I'm 1056 01:04:23,789 --> 01:04:27,989 like, you want podcast. We all want podcasting to be an 1057 01:04:27,989 --> 01:04:31,349 ecosystem. That's monetizable. And people can make money from 1058 01:04:31,349 --> 01:04:33,839 it. But then, but what one of the things that makes it 1059 01:04:33,839 --> 01:04:37,379 beautiful is that there's also this very large percent of 1060 01:04:37,379 --> 01:04:40,049 people who podcast just for just because they enjoy it, and it's 1061 01:04:40,049 --> 01:04:43,559 fun, and they really don't ever care about making money. Yeah, 1062 01:04:43,650 --> 01:04:49,110 yeah, I agree. And it's one of the reasons like we we have a 1063 01:04:49,110 --> 01:04:52,350 pot, this, you pay a subscription, but you can start 1064 01:04:52,350 --> 01:04:55,710 multiple shows on a subscription. 1065 01:04:55,740 --> 01:04:56,580 Oh, that's nice. 1066 01:04:56,910 --> 01:05:00,150 And so the whole idea was once I started podcasting, I was like, 1067 01:05:00,150 --> 01:05:04,440 Whoa, I want to I want to sunset this show and start something 1068 01:05:04,440 --> 01:05:08,070 else I want to, I want to create a five episode series, and then 1069 01:05:08,100 --> 01:05:11,820 to have to go in and pay every time I wanted to flex my 1070 01:05:11,880 --> 01:05:17,220 creativity was like, I'm just not, you know. So I, yeah, 1071 01:05:17,220 --> 01:05:20,880 there's a lot of people that just do it for fun. And I mean, 1072 01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:23,430 those are our favorite customers, the people that you 1073 01:05:23,430 --> 01:05:25,890 know, are are just like the people that are actually less 1074 01:05:25,890 --> 01:05:30,240 fun are the people that are really trying to optimize? Yes, 1075 01:05:30,240 --> 01:05:34,890 like, john, john sometimes gets, you know, folks that are like, 1076 01:05:34,890 --> 01:05:39,960 How come? How come? My download stats on transistor are two off 1077 01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:42,240 what I'm seeing in apple? Yeah, podcast. 1078 01:05:44,850 --> 01:05:48,360 listener from Denmark, but they're not showing up? I don't 1079 01:05:48,360 --> 01:05:51,180 know how to track that one down. Exactly. But 1080 01:05:51,390 --> 01:05:55,170 yeah, there's a whole episode of buzz buzz cast recently when 1081 01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:59,580 those guys were talking about some stats that all sudden 1082 01:05:59,580 --> 01:06:02,550 showed up from like, some obscure town in Washington. Oh, 1083 01:06:02,550 --> 01:06:02,820 yeah. 1084 01:06:02,820 --> 01:06:05,880 What was the reason behind that was some policy server so 1085 01:06:05,910 --> 01:06:09,990 he was like a something or, or maybe some sort of like God, IP 1086 01:06:10,410 --> 01:06:13,350 address to like geolocation errors or something like that. 1087 01:06:13,590 --> 01:06:16,680 But it's like, people get so worked up about oh, my God, I 1088 01:06:16,680 --> 01:06:17,610 had 100 listeners, 1089 01:06:17,940 --> 01:06:25,920 my favorite story, when this is in 1994, or five, somewhere 1090 01:06:25,920 --> 01:06:29,190 around there, and I built my company was building Planet 1091 01:06:29,190 --> 01:06:34,320 reebok.com for Reebok. And back then, you know, stats are you 1092 01:06:34,650 --> 01:06:37,890 would now have stats, we'll do some kind of grep the log for 1093 01:06:37,890 --> 01:06:43,290 you. And somehow that God, I'm not kidding. Somehow that, 1094 01:06:43,860 --> 01:06:48,690 excuse me, that got communicated through an account, person to 1095 01:06:49,350 --> 01:06:52,860 the client. And the client was like, holy crap, crap, we got 1096 01:06:52,860 --> 01:06:57,060 like 5 million people looking at us this past month, of course, 1097 01:06:57,060 --> 01:07:00,750 these were hits. These were server entries. You know, like 1098 01:07:00,750 --> 01:07:04,050 every image on the page, everything was a was a log 1099 01:07:04,050 --> 01:07:08,010 entry. And then you got stuck. It's like, holy crap, how do we 1100 01:07:08,010 --> 01:07:11,190 tell this person was probably a fraction of that. And we're 1101 01:07:11,190 --> 01:07:13,200 like, fuck it, let them think whatever they did. 1102 01:07:16,080 --> 01:07:19,440 That was the golden age of the web. I hit count. 1103 01:07:20,940 --> 01:07:22,830 All you needed, you just needed a counter. 1104 01:07:24,030 --> 01:07:25,890 We miss you. It is frustrating. 1105 01:07:26,100 --> 01:07:28,290 On the one hand, like I get it, I mean, it's, you know, they're, 1106 01:07:28,320 --> 01:07:31,350 they're small time podcasters. They just want they want an 1107 01:07:31,350 --> 01:07:32,490 audience. And they want to know what 1108 01:07:32,490 --> 01:07:35,340 everybody wants the feedback. And this is, this is why I'm 1109 01:07:35,340 --> 01:07:40,740 pushing so hard. Here, where podcasts and gets his ass 1110 01:07:40,740 --> 01:07:45,840 kicked, is in the real time comments that people I mean, do 1111 01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:50,940 on YouTube, when so the one is streaming live. And even if you 1112 01:07:50,940 --> 01:07:54,840 go back, you see the chat scroll by you know, of what, what past. 1113 01:07:56,460 --> 01:08:00,750 But really just the comments itself is is a huge feature of 1114 01:08:00,750 --> 01:08:04,950 what YouTube offers. And you know, this idea of super, super 1115 01:08:04,950 --> 01:08:08,790 chats, you know, where I throw you five bucks, or 10 bucks, all 1116 01:08:08,790 --> 01:08:13,200 of that. And all of that can be done with the technology that 1117 01:08:13,200 --> 01:08:15,750 we're looking at and implementing. And that's where 1118 01:08:15,750 --> 01:08:19,620 it has to come from, because and I think that that is just the 1119 01:08:19,620 --> 01:08:22,740 idea that you have almost like the hearts being thrown at you 1120 01:08:22,740 --> 01:08:27,060 in a in a periscope, or Instagram Live. That's the kind 1121 01:08:27,060 --> 01:08:32,010 of stuff that is that audiences thrive on. That's how they can 1122 01:08:32,010 --> 01:08:34,680 participate, be a part of it. And 1123 01:08:36,300 --> 01:08:40,620 all the big podcasts have chat rooms. Sure. I mean, sure does. 1124 01:08:41,430 --> 01:08:44,820 Take me know, once you get to a certain size, you know, they'll 1125 01:08:44,820 --> 01:08:48,450 want chat rooms because everybody in this world 1126 01:08:48,930 --> 01:08:53,730 would love to have every single podcast app that I used to just 1127 01:08:53,730 --> 01:08:58,260 log into our IRC chat room, boom, just sit on the app and 1128 01:08:58,290 --> 01:09:01,440 and troll along while you're listening with other people. And 1129 01:09:01,440 --> 01:09:05,160 you know, even better if it's synchronized, but I see that 1130 01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:07,710 experience we've we've been experiencing it for a couple 1131 01:09:07,710 --> 01:09:09,840 months now with the Sphinx chat. It's fun. 1132 01:09:10,500 --> 01:09:11,190 Yeah, 1133 01:09:11,579 --> 01:09:12,509 it really is. 1134 01:09:13,980 --> 01:09:16,140 Think the difference though between podcasting and obviously 1135 01:09:16,140 --> 01:09:19,140 YouTube is you don't your eyeballs are not a thing all the 1136 01:09:19,140 --> 01:09:21,690 time right like my phones in my pocket and I'm walking around 1137 01:09:21,720 --> 01:09:25,830 Yeah, but it's it I mean even audio people will do this on 1138 01:09:25,830 --> 01:09:30,270 YouTube just an audio show just crazy. How how deeply ingrained 1139 01:09:30,270 --> 01:09:34,410 that is. Here's a question though. are you guys looking at 1140 01:09:34,500 --> 01:09:38,220 some different types of compression etc. If for people 1141 01:09:38,220 --> 01:09:41,730 who want to do video podcast because obviously the problem 1142 01:09:41,730 --> 01:09:45,150 with video podcasts is file size, transfer costs, etc. 1143 01:09:45,539 --> 01:09:46,049 Yeah. Have 1144 01:09:46,050 --> 01:09:46,920 you been looking at that? 1145 01:09:47,250 --> 01:09:49,410 We haven't yet gonna take this. Yeah, 1146 01:09:49,470 --> 01:09:51,690 yeah, we haven't yet. I mean, there's, yeah, there's a number 1147 01:09:51,690 --> 01:09:52,770 of ways to do it. But 1148 01:09:53,820 --> 01:09:56,640 I mean, right now is the time and people are looking for an 1149 01:09:56,640 --> 01:09:57,390 alternative. 1150 01:09:57,989 --> 01:10:03,299 Yeah, yeah. The end of the day. The uproar of them removing all 1151 01:10:03,299 --> 01:10:06,239 the Joe Rogan videos off YouTube has been huge, especially 1152 01:10:06,420 --> 01:10:07,260 in comments. 1153 01:10:07,739 --> 01:10:11,999 Yeah, yeah. And even you think about going back to something, 1154 01:10:12,029 --> 01:10:16,949 you're saying, Adam, if I could tap my air pods, when somebody 1155 01:10:16,949 --> 01:10:20,249 says something that I like, and it and it rings the metaphorical 1156 01:10:20,249 --> 01:10:23,609 Bell, and gives them a little donation or a little feedback or 1157 01:10:23,609 --> 01:10:27,359 something, that would that would be an incredible audio 1158 01:10:27,359 --> 01:10:31,679 experience. And audio first, right? I'm walking around air 1159 01:10:31,679 --> 01:10:35,549 pods are on. And there's a way to, of course, right, Apple 1160 01:10:35,549 --> 01:10:38,849 would have to agree to this. But there's a way of me interacting 1161 01:10:38,849 --> 01:10:42,869 with, hey, let me ring the bell right now. And give them some 1162 01:10:42,869 --> 01:10:46,259 feedback. Like I like that joke, or that was a good point for 1163 01:10:46,259 --> 01:10:46,409 Yeah, 1164 01:10:46,410 --> 01:10:48,960 we haven't spent a lot of money. Yeah, we have this actually, 1165 01:10:49,380 --> 01:10:52,980 it's integrated already is called a boost. So you can boost 1166 01:10:52,980 --> 01:10:56,430 in this amount of satoshis. Which by itself is, is part of 1167 01:10:56,430 --> 01:10:58,800 the game is you know, come up with a cool number, like I'll 1168 01:10:58,800 --> 01:11:05,520 boost 404 Dave, I think is doing 133 or something like that. And 1169 01:11:05,520 --> 01:11:09,540 then as a podcaster we go back, you can, you know, see all the 1170 01:11:09,540 --> 01:11:12,270 boosts on the timeline, you can scroll through it and see where 1171 01:11:12,270 --> 01:11:14,550 people were, as you would say, we're ringing the bell. 1172 01:11:14,850 --> 01:11:16,440 Yeah, I love that idea. 1173 01:11:17,610 --> 01:11:19,950 Maybe listening and all of a sudden, you'll have like this 1174 01:11:20,160 --> 01:11:23,160 string of that come through, and you're like, Oh, I don't know 1175 01:11:23,160 --> 01:11:25,860 what just happened. But something exact somebody said 1176 01:11:25,860 --> 01:11:27,720 something. cool idea. I 1177 01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:30,450 mean, I I'll have to look in and kind of read up on what you guys 1178 01:11:30,450 --> 01:11:33,420 have been doing. There's a lot of seems like there's a lot of 1179 01:11:33,420 --> 01:11:34,770 pieces that need to get, we 1180 01:11:34,770 --> 01:11:36,900 got to get you in the test group. So you can gather 1181 01:11:37,860 --> 01:11:41,280 as long as long as whatever ends up being as easy to use for 1182 01:11:41,280 --> 01:11:44,910 customers and casters and platforms at least. 1183 01:11:45,540 --> 01:11:47,760 That's your job. We got all the complicated. 1184 01:11:51,090 --> 01:11:51,930 I have fun, john. 1185 01:11:52,800 --> 01:11:57,750 really put that somewhere on our shoulders. 1186 01:11:59,910 --> 01:12:03,420 What What do you think y'all will? What is the next part of 1187 01:12:03,420 --> 01:12:06,240 the namespace that y'all think you will work on? 1188 01:12:07,470 --> 01:12:10,920 I mean, I think having a spot for people to upload transcripts 1189 01:12:10,920 --> 01:12:14,160 is that's that's a natural one. People have wanted that for a 1190 01:12:14,160 --> 01:12:19,650 while. So yeah, I think transcripts is and I don't think 1191 01:12:19,650 --> 01:12:22,500 it's that hard. Even if we just started with like, you can 1192 01:12:22,500 --> 01:12:25,230 upload an SRT file or something like that. Yeah, 1193 01:12:25,230 --> 01:12:27,510 you know, let him get away with saying what's hard and what's 1194 01:12:27,510 --> 01:12:30,120 not. Right? 1195 01:12:31,890 --> 01:12:33,120 How hard can it be? 1196 01:12:33,210 --> 01:12:37,230 Yeah, you just copy and paste of like texts? Yeah, probably 1197 01:12:37,230 --> 01:12:39,780 transcripts. I mean, chapters are a little we don't support 1198 01:12:39,780 --> 01:12:43,410 those directly. I mean, those are tough, because it does tie 1199 01:12:43,410 --> 01:12:46,800 into the actual mp3, the chapters themselves the chapter 1200 01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:47,340 tags. 1201 01:12:47,880 --> 01:12:51,660 Now, not in this not we are we have different chapters now. 1202 01:12:51,930 --> 01:12:55,260 Okay, yeah, it's a JSON file. It's an external JSON file, and 1203 01:12:55,260 --> 01:12:58,230 you just you just put an captors element in there, and then a URL 1204 01:12:58,230 --> 01:12:59,490 to the JSON file, and you're done. 1205 01:12:59,489 --> 01:13:02,939 And here's what's cool about it. If you think of something that 1206 01:13:02,939 --> 01:13:05,789 your customers might like, because this is part of this 1207 01:13:05,789 --> 01:13:09,029 podcast in 2.0, where you're part of the band, or you're in 1208 01:13:09,029 --> 01:13:14,309 the band, so I have community chapters. So this, this JSON 1209 01:13:14,309 --> 01:13:17,519 file with the chapters is external, it's it's referenced 1210 01:13:17,519 --> 01:13:22,859 in the RSS feed, and hyper capture, which is an iOS app 1211 01:13:23,339 --> 01:13:27,479 giveaway, a simple way for anybody to just tap it and say, 1212 01:13:27,479 --> 01:13:32,429 Oh, hold on a second. I want to place a chapter here. And then 1213 01:13:32,429 --> 01:13:35,519 there's a back end as a podcaster, I can approve those 1214 01:13:35,519 --> 01:13:39,239 links, I can add a picture to it. Now there's a few other 1215 01:13:39,239 --> 01:13:42,509 things you can do, which will start expanding. So now now 1216 01:13:42,509 --> 01:13:48,419 people can start submitting very much like a, you know, like a 1217 01:13:48,419 --> 01:13:52,499 timeline on SoundCloud, you can submit either a comment or 1218 01:13:52,499 --> 01:13:59,129 chapter marker or a URL link. And, and in my case, I just use 1219 01:13:59,399 --> 01:14:03,209 the API. There's an API endpoint for each episode. And I just use 1220 01:14:03,209 --> 01:14:06,809 that whenever whenever a 2.0 app comes along, and it finds the 1221 01:14:06,809 --> 01:14:10,079 chapters it just puts them right in right away ended updates on 1222 01:14:10,079 --> 01:14:10,619 the fly. 1223 01:14:11,250 --> 01:14:14,730 Yeah, yeah, that is that is cool. I think chapters is a is a 1224 01:14:14,730 --> 01:14:18,750 cool. I'm also really excited about Sam bytes. Yeah, from from 1225 01:14:18,750 --> 01:14:18,930 kind 1226 01:14:18,930 --> 01:14:20,700 of the same thing as we figured out. 1227 01:14:21,030 --> 01:14:26,520 Yeah, sound bites is an interesting one. Because in the 1228 01:14:26,520 --> 01:14:29,310 discovery, like if podcasts have a discovery problem, or 1229 01:14:29,310 --> 01:14:32,970 whatever, the problem is that you get to Apple podcasts. And 1230 01:14:32,970 --> 01:14:36,480 then there's 200 episodes that are all two hours long. It's 1231 01:14:36,480 --> 01:14:40,410 like, Well, how do I get a quick sense of what this what this 1232 01:14:40,410 --> 01:14:43,530 episode was about? Or what this man is about? 1233 01:14:43,560 --> 01:14:47,490 You want caste coverage? Have you tried that app yet? No. 1234 01:14:47,700 --> 01:14:51,390 caste coverage is the craziest fucking app in the world. It 1235 01:14:51,390 --> 01:14:55,560 gives you you fired up and it just grabs a random podcast 1236 01:14:55,590 --> 01:15:00,000 dumps you in a place in the file randomly. So you can listen to 1237 01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:03,210 Do it and then you don't like it hit the next one. It's perfect 1238 01:15:03,210 --> 01:15:04,200 for finding shit. 1239 01:15:04,680 --> 01:15:08,190 Yes, the scan is the Scan button on the FM radio. Yeah, and 1240 01:15:08,190 --> 01:15:11,190 it should have it should be using sound bites now it's just 1241 01:15:11,190 --> 01:15:14,430 taking something at random. But think about how cool it will be 1242 01:15:14,430 --> 01:15:16,200 with sound bites for discoverability 1243 01:15:16,650 --> 01:15:19,980 pod verse two, you know, podcast is all about sound bites they 1244 01:15:20,370 --> 01:15:21,660 pod is a pod first 1245 01:15:21,870 --> 01:15:23,190 pod verse.fm. Yep, 1246 01:15:23,280 --> 01:15:26,760 yeah. And then you basically just as community sound bites, 1247 01:15:26,760 --> 01:15:28,980 and people are doing it, and it publishes it back out into 1248 01:15:28,980 --> 01:15:30,390 chapters into chapters format. 1249 01:15:31,170 --> 01:15:33,510 Yeah, we'll have to look into the chapter stuff. I mean, it's 1250 01:15:36,090 --> 01:15:39,960 I think it again, it has to be sort of seamless for the 1251 01:15:40,110 --> 01:15:42,750 customer. And I don't know if necessary know if we'd want 1252 01:15:42,750 --> 01:15:47,160 people editing tables of chapter data. If they can, if we can 1253 01:15:47,160 --> 01:15:49,530 pull the chapters right out of the mp3 if they already had it. 1254 01:15:49,530 --> 01:15:50,670 That's obviously better. 1255 01:15:50,760 --> 01:15:52,110 Oh, that's a cool idea. 1256 01:15:52,680 --> 01:15:55,680 Yeah, that's what this was some vendors, some holsters or do any 1257 01:15:55,680 --> 01:15:58,080 pull it in, and then you just scan the frame headers, and 1258 01:15:58,170 --> 01:16:00,690 yeah, Addy three stuff out and build the JSON out of it. 1259 01:16:01,260 --> 01:16:02,700 Mm hmm. That would be that's what, 1260 01:16:02,820 --> 01:16:05,340 that's why we did the Jason. That's why we did the JSON is 1261 01:16:05,340 --> 01:16:10,350 because mp3 embedded chapters are just, they've never taken 1262 01:16:10,350 --> 01:16:13,980 off. Right. And it's, it's too, I'm not gonna say it's 1263 01:16:13,980 --> 01:16:18,030 difficult, but most people's, like, most people are uploading 1264 01:16:18,030 --> 01:16:22,200 their mp3 to the host. And they're not gonna sit there and 1265 01:16:22,290 --> 01:16:26,670 go through there and use an editing tool to do that sort of 1266 01:16:26,670 --> 01:16:29,580 thing. They're gonna upload it to the host. And then once you 1267 01:16:29,580 --> 01:16:32,280 have that point, you really don't want to do a bunch of re 1268 01:16:32,280 --> 01:16:34,950 encoding and that sort of thing to me. But see, 1269 01:16:34,950 --> 01:16:38,310 y'all just I just want to say you technical boys, don't miss 1270 01:16:38,310 --> 01:16:41,790 the point here of the community aspect. So when you're baking it 1271 01:16:41,790 --> 01:16:45,450 into your file, you know, that's one way only, and people only 1272 01:16:45,450 --> 01:16:48,090 get to see that as bookmarks or whatever you want to call them. 1273 01:16:48,420 --> 01:16:51,390 When you get the audience out there who can say, Oh, shit, 1274 01:16:51,390 --> 01:16:54,570 this is a great joke, I want to mark this here, or I want to put 1275 01:16:54,570 --> 01:16:58,350 a funny picture here, I want to link to something. Now Now 1276 01:16:58,350 --> 01:17:01,590 you're cooking with gas, because that's what people want. They 1277 01:17:01,590 --> 01:17:02,910 want to participate. 1278 01:17:03,150 --> 01:17:06,960 Cat chapters go both ways. It's not just like one direction. 1279 01:17:07,320 --> 01:17:11,220 No, because you can have as long as you can, you have an 1280 01:17:11,220 --> 01:17:15,810 interface for other people to edit the JSON, which I see which 1281 01:17:15,810 --> 01:17:19,140 still has a back end for approval. So you know, people 1282 01:17:19,140 --> 01:17:21,870 aren't putting porn in there, although very appropriate in 1283 01:17:21,870 --> 01:17:27,840 this show, then I can approve, you approve it. And it's all 1284 01:17:27,840 --> 01:17:31,020 rudimentary. And it's basically just a list of start types, you 1285 01:17:31,020 --> 01:17:37,650 know, start time URL, image URL. That's it. So yeah, and it's 1286 01:17:37,650 --> 01:17:40,980 just, uh, you know, just, each time you add a chapter, it's 1287 01:17:40,980 --> 01:17:43,890 just a row is added to the interface. So it's, and then it 1288 01:17:43,890 --> 01:17:46,950 spits out the the JSON on the other end. But that's what makes 1289 01:17:46,950 --> 01:17:51,300 it cool is that anyone can edit it. And I want this to be cross 1290 01:17:51,390 --> 01:17:55,260 app. If it could be two, I want someone on one app to be able to 1291 01:17:55,290 --> 01:17:58,620 do something on a chapter and then someone else can add their 1292 01:17:58,620 --> 01:18:01,680 own. And before you know it, you got comments, you know, this 1293 01:18:01,680 --> 01:18:03,450 this could move quite quickly this way. 1294 01:18:03,900 --> 01:18:07,890 Yeah, or even the thing I thought about if we realized 1295 01:18:07,950 --> 01:18:11,100 that people the reason people supported us monthly for our 1296 01:18:11,100 --> 01:18:15,060 show, because we had all these tiers and staff and you know, 1297 01:18:15,090 --> 01:18:18,990 benefits. What they wanted was the shout out at the end of the 1298 01:18:18,990 --> 01:18:22,530 show. Exactly. And we have this big long list of people yeah, 1299 01:18:22,650 --> 01:18:25,800 and they want the shout out that's what they want. And so 1300 01:18:25,800 --> 01:18:31,890 now imagine if you know if you you get the shout out but then 1301 01:18:31,890 --> 01:18:33,750 you could you're one of the supporters you can take a 1302 01:18:33,750 --> 01:18:37,590 picture of yourself and send it back and now you appear in the 1303 01:18:37,620 --> 01:18:41,460 in the chapter artwork right? It's like what like that. That's 1304 01:18:41,460 --> 01:18:42,600 good. Dave Jim cat. 1305 01:18:42,719 --> 01:18:47,309 There you go. Speaking of which, Dave let's thank our three 1306 01:18:47,309 --> 01:18:52,019 people. Oh, yeah. Because we're I value if you don't mind for a 1307 01:18:52,019 --> 01:18:54,659 second here, john and Justin, we are done. I 1308 01:18:54,750 --> 01:18:57,540 we do that transition perfectly. Yes, we do. 1309 01:18:58,110 --> 01:19:03,030 Our value for whatever you whatever value you get out of 1310 01:19:03,030 --> 01:19:07,140 this project as we are pushing podcasting forward. We're in it 1311 01:19:07,140 --> 01:19:09,720 to make it work for everybody. And the only way to keep the 1312 01:19:09,720 --> 01:19:16,050 machines humming is through the charity of Dave and myself. a 1313 01:19:16,050 --> 01:19:20,250 cast of 1000s and your actual financial donations we look at 1314 01:19:20,250 --> 01:19:23,670 the three T's time talent and treasure. What do we think today 1315 01:19:23,670 --> 01:19:24,030 Dave? 1316 01:19:24,870 --> 01:19:28,440 Well, the The first one is not an actual donation. It's more of 1317 01:19:28,530 --> 01:19:30,990 a it is a donation but it's not just a money donation. It's 1318 01:19:31,860 --> 01:19:38,070 thinking Ben and Alberto at RSS calm because they sponsored on 1319 01:19:38,070 --> 01:19:43,500 our behalf for pod news to brand their tech section of the 1320 01:19:43,500 --> 01:19:45,990 newsletter with podcasts index 1321 01:19:45,989 --> 01:19:48,869 that was really nice. And it was it was it that's a nice little 1322 01:19:48,869 --> 01:19:53,339 blurb we got Oh, yeah, yeah, it's a piece of placement. Yeah, 1323 01:19:53,339 --> 01:19:55,919 really appreciated that. That's that's that's incredibly 1324 01:19:55,919 --> 01:19:58,559 valuable, that brings people over. Really appreciate that, 1325 01:19:58,559 --> 01:19:58,949 guys. 1326 01:19:59,370 --> 01:20:03,630 I've talked a bit A few times over the last couple of months, 1327 01:20:03,630 --> 01:20:07,860 and he's just just a top notch guy. Great. Very cool. Yeah. And 1328 01:20:07,860 --> 01:20:11,160 he and he really wanted to do that for us. So that's, I don't 1329 01:20:11,160 --> 01:20:13,710 know how to value that. But I'm sure it's not cheap. And we 1330 01:20:13,710 --> 01:20:18,930 really appreciate that guys. The we have a automatic payment a 1331 01:20:18,930 --> 01:20:25,560 new subscription. Ah, very nice. Joseph maraca $5 a month and I 1332 01:20:25,560 --> 01:20:27,600 could not find a note from Joseph, Bill. 1333 01:20:28,019 --> 01:20:29,579 Thank you, Joseph. It's appreciated. 1334 01:20:29,760 --> 01:20:30,330 That's Yeah, 1335 01:20:30,450 --> 01:20:32,670 it's value. That's all we care about. 1336 01:20:34,800 --> 01:20:39,300 And we also got a one time donation of $7. From Earl 1337 01:20:39,300 --> 01:20:45,270 Hamilton. Again, no note. So that took a really long time. 1338 01:20:45,600 --> 01:20:46,020 Well, we 1339 01:20:46,020 --> 01:20:50,250 have we appreciate any support we get. And obviously we thank 1340 01:20:51,000 --> 01:20:54,450 all the developers and people who are on podcast, index, 1341 01:20:54,480 --> 01:20:58,140 social, who are hanging out, adding their two cents thinking 1342 01:20:58,140 --> 01:21:01,920 about stuff, writing stuff, helping with the namespace with 1343 01:21:01,920 --> 01:21:06,810 specs, sometimes just making us all laugh, it's, it's a lot of 1344 01:21:06,810 --> 01:21:10,080 fun. And it really throws back to what we were talking about, 1345 01:21:10,080 --> 01:21:14,340 you know, the, the early days of podcasting, a lot of that spirit 1346 01:21:14,340 --> 01:21:18,810 is, is alive and well rejuvenated. It's really nice to 1347 01:21:18,810 --> 01:21:21,570 see how everyone is coming together and making this work. 1348 01:21:21,570 --> 01:21:26,100 And it's its independence. But I think, at 40 or 50% of the 1349 01:21:26,100 --> 01:21:29,730 market outside of apple and Spotify. We're doing pretty darn 1350 01:21:29,730 --> 01:21:32,400 good. And you can support us again, your time, your talent, 1351 01:21:32,400 --> 01:21:35,370 your treasure, go to podcast index. org, at the bottom is a 1352 01:21:35,370 --> 01:21:40,650 big red Donate button. Or if you have Spinks app where you got 1353 01:21:40,650 --> 01:21:44,430 some lightning payments, there's a QR code, you can support us 1354 01:21:44,430 --> 01:21:46,740 there. And thanks again. It's really appreciated. 1355 01:21:46,920 --> 01:21:51,270 And john and Justin both personally promised to me that 1356 01:21:51,270 --> 01:21:56,100 they would donate $1,000 each. So that's in there. I guess 1357 01:21:56,100 --> 01:22:06,150 that's right. Did I get those numbers? Right? Yeah. 1358 01:22:07,800 --> 01:22:11,010 That's how we that's how we fund distortion. 1359 01:22:13,110 --> 01:22:15,900 I like it. This is the new model. 1360 01:22:17,310 --> 01:22:20,310 I will say I will add a route the community aspect of this. 1361 01:22:21,750 --> 01:22:25,890 I'm in a in a Slack channel for the open pockets analytics 1362 01:22:25,890 --> 01:22:29,430 group. And there is a channel in there for indie podcast and host 1363 01:22:29,430 --> 01:22:33,330 companies. And like everyone is really friendly and open to 1364 01:22:33,330 --> 01:22:36,570 talking about stuff and sharing ideas. So like, cool. It's 1365 01:22:36,570 --> 01:22:38,880 really, it's really cool to see that I know everyone is a little 1366 01:22:38,880 --> 01:22:42,150 bit worried about Spotify and all these other making, oh, 1367 01:22:42,150 --> 01:22:44,490 we're here, we're here to fight that man. That's what we're 1368 01:22:44,490 --> 01:22:45,120 doing here. 1369 01:22:45,120 --> 01:22:47,730 We're, everyone's everyone's on board, I think everyone is. 1370 01:22:48,720 --> 01:22:51,810 So all we need is better features, you know that 1371 01:22:51,840 --> 01:22:54,330 eventually they're going to redo their app, and it will be much 1372 01:22:54,330 --> 01:23:00,240 better. But think about I personally don't know if 1373 01:23:00,240 --> 01:23:03,150 they're, you know, their purchases they've made if 1374 01:23:03,150 --> 01:23:08,190 they're going to be on the same development trade. And they put 1375 01:23:08,190 --> 01:23:10,830 all their resources into streaming ad insertion and 1376 01:23:10,830 --> 01:23:14,730 tracking, getting all that stuff done. But you know, as we know, 1377 01:23:14,730 --> 01:23:18,930 there's these little things like, you know, the 1.2 1.5 1378 01:23:18,930 --> 01:23:22,710 times speed, being able to share something, be able to, to clip 1379 01:23:22,710 --> 01:23:25,110 something, there's all these little features that they're 1380 01:23:25,110 --> 01:23:28,620 going to have to catch up on. We have, I think 18 months 1381 01:23:28,800 --> 01:23:32,700 headstart, and if we really push, they'll never they'll 1382 01:23:32,700 --> 01:23:34,050 never really get off the ground. 1383 01:23:35,400 --> 01:23:38,250 What's the What's your feeling about Apple in all this case? 1384 01:23:38,250 --> 01:23:42,390 Because they've been kind of the benevolent. I don't know what 1385 01:23:42,420 --> 01:23:46,920 they've kind of they hold a lot of the balance of power right 1386 01:23:46,920 --> 01:23:47,340 now. 1387 01:23:47,460 --> 01:23:48,030 Oh, crap. 1388 01:23:48,629 --> 01:23:50,249 You don't think so? No, No, 1389 01:23:50,700 --> 01:23:55,050 they don't. They're they're in irons right now, to use the 1390 01:23:55,050 --> 01:23:58,980 nautical term. So they are of course contemplating doing a 1391 01:23:58,980 --> 01:24:03,330 podcasting plus a podcast plus, which will be, you know, talent 1392 01:24:03,330 --> 01:24:07,650 and news, etc, which is a burgeoning business for Apple. I 1393 01:24:07,650 --> 01:24:11,640 don't think it's, I mean, they have to do it, I think, I don't 1394 01:24:11,640 --> 01:24:15,780 think they're particularly great at it. They curate very kind of 1395 01:24:15,780 --> 01:24:20,250 middle of the road very safe, at not really what people are 1396 01:24:20,250 --> 01:24:23,460 looking for anymore. They want to be able to explore the unsafe 1397 01:24:23,460 --> 01:24:28,230 stuff. On the other hand, they're totally stagnant with 1398 01:24:28,680 --> 01:24:32,850 with podcasting, and I've been kicking them, I'm saying, look, 1399 01:24:32,880 --> 01:24:39,330 I you know, whatever you do, you I would suggest adopting to the 1400 01:24:39,330 --> 01:24:43,440 new features that are coming out. If you want to really play 1401 01:24:43,440 --> 01:24:46,800 both sides of the fence against Spotify, you're already under 1402 01:24:46,800 --> 01:24:50,520 50% market share according to the numbers, whatever it means. 1403 01:24:50,760 --> 01:24:55,260 So, yeah, go ahead and compete if you really think that, you 1404 01:24:55,260 --> 01:24:57,660 know, the offering you can put together is going to be worth 1405 01:24:57,660 --> 01:25:01,440 some type of subscription Where again, you know, we're going 1406 01:25:01,440 --> 01:25:04,680 exactly the opposite. And eventually, all these streaming 1407 01:25:04,680 --> 01:25:08,220 channels on television or your Roku and all these apps, that 1408 01:25:08,220 --> 01:25:10,620 someone is gonna have to come up with the universal way to do 1409 01:25:10,620 --> 01:25:14,460 that, because you can't have a $300 bill and only listen to a 1410 01:25:14,460 --> 01:25:19,200 couple of shows, or watch a couple of TV shows on every 1411 01:25:19,230 --> 01:25:23,790 different app. It's just it's, it's very arrogant. We have five 1412 01:25:23,790 --> 01:25:28,980 Joe Rogan's outside of these places. Hmm. And their audiences 1413 01:25:29,070 --> 01:25:33,930 are so powerful, that when Michelle Obama's podcast 1414 01:25:33,930 --> 01:25:36,720 couldn't get the audience that they had sold to the 1415 01:25:36,720 --> 01:25:40,230 advertisers, all of a sudden, it was no longer just an exclusive 1416 01:25:40,230 --> 01:25:43,350 to Spotify. It's on every podcast app everywhere, because 1417 01:25:43,350 --> 01:25:46,440 they can't get the audience who has the audience? We have the 1418 01:25:46,440 --> 01:25:47,130 audience. 1419 01:25:47,910 --> 01:25:51,900 I see what you're saying. Yeah. But in terms of like actual 1420 01:25:51,930 --> 01:25:55,740 listening apps, Apple is still outside of Spotify. Apple still 1421 01:25:55,740 --> 01:26:00,780 has most of that, that that market share, and I'm guessing a 1422 01:26:00,780 --> 01:26:04,770 lot of people are still like when they discover podcasts for 1423 01:26:04,770 --> 01:26:08,100 the first time. They're not downloading overcast, their most 1424 01:26:08,490 --> 01:26:12,870 normal, quote unquote, are, you know that they use the apple 1425 01:26:12,870 --> 01:26:14,460 podcast app, I'm guessing 1426 01:26:14,520 --> 01:26:18,750 well, that the apple podcast app stats, first percentage of 1427 01:26:18,750 --> 01:26:22,830 downloads has been dwindling. It's been steadily going down. 1428 01:26:22,830 --> 01:26:27,300 And I think if you go back, if you go back 10 years ago, you 1429 01:26:27,300 --> 01:26:32,460 would have never convinced anybody that Internet Explorer 1430 01:26:32,490 --> 01:26:36,090 was not going to be the dominant browser. And that and that your 1431 01:26:36,090 --> 01:26:39,390 grandmother would go out and download a copy of Chrome onto 1432 01:26:39,390 --> 01:26:42,300 her computer, you would say, well, just the thing that it 1433 01:26:42,300 --> 01:26:45,510 comes with, is the thing that everybody's going to use. But 1434 01:26:45,510 --> 01:26:49,260 the the power of word of mouth, it got to the point where people 1435 01:26:49,260 --> 01:26:53,190 were saying it became known amongst everybody, that Internet 1436 01:26:53,190 --> 01:26:55,890 Explorer sucks, you need a better browser, go download 1437 01:26:55,890 --> 01:26:58,830 Chrome. And it just became this thing that everybody knows. And 1438 01:26:58,830 --> 01:27:02,250 I think that's happening in podcasting. The Apple podcast 1439 01:27:02,250 --> 01:27:06,750 app is bad. It's just that people are saying these, like, 1440 01:27:06,780 --> 01:27:10,140 I'm using overcast most of the time, unless I'm listening to 1441 01:27:10,140 --> 01:27:14,100 Sphinx. If so when I whenever somebody asked me, What should I 1442 01:27:14,280 --> 01:27:17,670 listen to, I'll just tell them go get overcast, I think that 1443 01:27:17,670 --> 01:27:20,760 read that replicates out, and I think it's having an overall 1444 01:27:20,760 --> 01:27:21,810 aggregate effect. 1445 01:27:21,840 --> 01:27:25,170 And, and also don't get stuck in in the kind of what I call the 1446 01:27:25,170 --> 01:27:28,350 the holsters dilemma with and that's what's been going on for 1447 01:27:28,350 --> 01:27:34,050 a decade, as well as Apple going to support it. So now we have 15 1448 01:27:34,080 --> 01:27:38,580 apps that support these new features. When I when I say to 1449 01:27:38,580 --> 01:27:43,740 someone, hey, and I, we have a pretty big audience, I say, you 1450 01:27:43,740 --> 01:27:47,310 know, go get hyper capture, his servers get overloaded, because 1451 01:27:47,310 --> 01:27:49,260 people are getting hyper capture, and why are they 1452 01:27:49,260 --> 01:27:52,290 getting it because it has features they like they can do 1453 01:27:52,290 --> 01:27:57,180 something with it. If I if I say check out this episode, I almost 1454 01:27:57,180 --> 01:28:02,100 now instinctively send them to a pod friendly, because it's a Web 1455 01:28:02,100 --> 01:28:05,580 Player, it comes up fast, it works fast, that has all the 1456 01:28:05,580 --> 01:28:08,760 features in there, and people are often blown away. It's like 1457 01:28:08,760 --> 01:28:12,840 not really, it's not it's a big step for someone to switch apps, 1458 01:28:12,990 --> 01:28:16,860 because someone who's really, really dedicated to it. And 1459 01:28:16,860 --> 01:28:20,880 you'll see a lot of people, you know, pie pocket casts, you 1460 01:28:20,880 --> 01:28:25,380 know, very dedicated podcast attic extremely dedicated. So 1461 01:28:25,620 --> 01:28:29,520 instead of getting people to switch their apps, the ones they 1462 01:28:29,520 --> 01:28:32,910 like, now we have features that these app developers can upgrade 1463 01:28:32,910 --> 01:28:39,060 to an apple, if they don't, you know, what is NPR gonna do? They 1464 01:28:39,060 --> 01:28:42,150 want seasons, the way your customers want seasons, 1465 01:28:42,450 --> 01:28:45,990 eventually, there's going to be enough apps to support seasons, 1466 01:28:46,230 --> 01:28:50,160 that NPR will say, hey, if you want to find our seasons, use, 1467 01:28:50,190 --> 01:28:55,260 you know, pod verse.fm they will, they will do that. Now, 1468 01:28:55,260 --> 01:28:57,780 I've been around long enough to see it happen. So just like Dave 1469 01:28:57,780 --> 01:29:03,240 is saying, this idea that it's all over now is the browser Wars 1470 01:29:03,240 --> 01:29:07,320 was totally driven by features. Totally, it was all about the 1471 01:29:07,320 --> 01:29:13,980 features. And it still is and developers Thank you, Michael, 1472 01:29:13,980 --> 01:29:17,970 Microsoft is now trying to capture some of that back and 1473 01:29:17,970 --> 01:29:20,310 and you know, I think they've gone totally overboard where now 1474 01:29:20,310 --> 01:29:24,210 the browser just runs and sucks out your life in data full time 1475 01:29:24,210 --> 01:29:28,980 but without even open. But yeah, it's it's it's going to come 1476 01:29:28,980 --> 01:29:32,130 down to features and people have been wanting these because every 1477 01:29:32,130 --> 01:29:37,500 other platform has this is your own platform you can interact. 1478 01:29:38,460 --> 01:29:41,790 And so podcasting needs to get it and let's, you know, let's 1479 01:29:41,790 --> 01:29:44,610 see if Spotify does anything like that? I don't think so. 1480 01:29:44,610 --> 01:29:45,780 It's not their purview right 1481 01:29:45,780 --> 01:29:50,430 now. Yeah, I mean, I my my preference would be for Apple to 1482 01:29:50,820 --> 01:29:55,680 Apple to adopt this stuff. Because it would be nice if, you 1483 01:29:55,680 --> 01:29:59,400 know, outside of Spotify has already said you know, their 1484 01:29:59,490 --> 01:30:03,600 their path. is clear. But all these other players that support 1485 01:30:03,600 --> 01:30:10,290 RSS feeds my preference would be like, yeah, let's, let's use the 1486 01:30:10,290 --> 01:30:14,100 podcast index stuff. When we first started, I was like, 1487 01:30:14,100 --> 01:30:16,890 what's going on with RSS? Like, what's, where's the RSS working 1488 01:30:16,890 --> 01:30:22,290 group and all that? And that's, uh, you know, I don't know, do 1489 01:30:22,290 --> 01:30:25,050 you guys ever talk to those? Is that even a thing anymore? I 1490 01:30:25,050 --> 01:30:28,680 was a founding member of the RSS board. It's a piece of crap. 1491 01:30:28,680 --> 01:30:31,800 It's like, it's like nothing's like people running around 1492 01:30:31,800 --> 01:30:34,350 talking stuff for 10 years doing nothing. 1493 01:30:34,680 --> 01:30:39,120 Yeah. So So this seems to be the best approach is to say, let's, 1494 01:30:39,150 --> 01:30:44,490 let's enhance RSS to renew open protocol. I'm totally on board 1495 01:30:44,490 --> 01:30:48,720 with that. I mean, my, my dream would be for Apple to adopt it. 1496 01:30:48,750 --> 01:30:51,450 And then, yeah, we don't have because you're right. All the 1497 01:30:51,450 --> 01:30:55,620 only innovation we've had, in the last 510 years. It's been 1498 01:30:55,620 --> 01:30:56,250 when Apple 1499 01:30:56,280 --> 01:31:01,050 announces new, you know, new tags. And so here's, here's, 1500 01:31:01,110 --> 01:31:03,990 this is the problem. And this is why part of why we started the 1501 01:31:03,990 --> 01:31:08,070 index. podcast, app developers have never been in the deal 1502 01:31:08,070 --> 01:31:11,700 flow, there's been no money for them. So what's the incentive to 1503 01:31:11,700 --> 01:31:16,320 create a great app? And and Beside that, in order to create 1504 01:31:16,320 --> 01:31:19,530 a great app, you need endpoints, you need an API that is 1505 01:31:19,530 --> 01:31:22,890 expandable, you need someone on the other end of the API to 1506 01:31:22,890 --> 01:31:26,850 create the features that you need. So we provided that, and 1507 01:31:26,850 --> 01:31:30,060 now we have apps that never existed before. So the longer 1508 01:31:30,060 --> 01:31:32,970 Apple waits, the more market share we're going to take from 1509 01:31:32,970 --> 01:31:33,900 them. Yeah, 1510 01:31:33,930 --> 01:31:37,500 yeah, that's the way I see it. And maybe that's the hedge to is 1511 01:31:37,500 --> 01:31:42,990 to is if they want eight, to maintain some space in 1512 01:31:42,990 --> 01:31:50,490 podcasting, they, and they are competing against Spotify. And 1513 01:31:50,520 --> 01:31:53,370 maybe that's the hedge, as you say, like, Listen, like 1514 01:31:53,700 --> 01:31:58,380 podcasting is moving on. And we need people are demanding these 1515 01:31:58,380 --> 01:32:02,040 features. Just adopt them. And then you've got, you've got a 1516 01:32:02,040 --> 01:32:04,320 big advantage over your competition. 1517 01:32:04,680 --> 01:32:08,250 Yes, exactly. Right. Because you think my, my dream of how this 1518 01:32:08,250 --> 01:32:12,600 plays out is that Apple currently has the iTunes 1519 01:32:12,600 --> 01:32:17,970 namespace of which is mostly a standard, and they but the 1520 01:32:17,970 --> 01:32:22,440 iTunes brand isn't even a thing anymore, that iTunes doesn't 1521 01:32:22,500 --> 01:32:23,010 really even 1522 01:32:23,040 --> 01:32:26,490 nowadays, remember, name doesn't mean anything. 1523 01:32:28,200 --> 01:32:30,330 Just refer to it as iTunes. 1524 01:32:33,150 --> 01:32:39,420 I don't know what you're talking about. The, the iTunes namespace 1525 01:32:40,050 --> 01:32:45,930 refers to a product that doesn't exist. But so so really what you 1526 01:32:45,930 --> 01:32:49,800 could do, and this is my dreaming here, really, what what 1527 01:32:49,800 --> 01:32:53,640 Apple could do is they could look at the podcast namespace, 1528 01:32:54,210 --> 01:32:57,180 and they can just merge the podcast namespace in with 1529 01:32:57,180 --> 01:33:03,120 iTunes, and just and just call it podcast. Branding isn't 1530 01:33:03,120 --> 01:33:06,300 giving them anything anymore. So this could be an industry wide 1531 01:33:06,300 --> 01:33:06,720 change. 1532 01:33:06,870 --> 01:33:10,410 Great idea. That'd be fantastic to just merge it in Nice. 1533 01:33:10,440 --> 01:33:12,930 Yeah, there would be no breakage, I think I think would 1534 01:33:12,930 --> 01:33:13,440 just roll. 1535 01:33:13,680 --> 01:33:15,510 It's gonna take a lot of pressure. I mean, I think as a 1536 01:33:15,510 --> 01:33:21,030 group, you know, between smaller hosts like us, and people like 1537 01:33:21,030 --> 01:33:23,610 you guys, like it's gonna take a group effort to really think 1538 01:33:23,610 --> 01:33:27,630 pressure, pressure Apple, maybe there's some campaign we can do 1539 01:33:27,630 --> 01:33:32,430 all at the same time to just bombard them with. everyone's 1540 01:33:32,430 --> 01:33:33,480 asking for this stuff. 1541 01:33:33,510 --> 01:33:36,450 Well, that's that's actually not necessary, because they're quite 1542 01:33:36,450 --> 01:33:39,600 aware of what we're doing today are, they're very aware I'm 1543 01:33:39,600 --> 01:33:42,450 presenting the namespace to them in January. Yeah, give them 1544 01:33:42,450 --> 01:33:43,950 shit. Yeah. 1545 01:33:44,640 --> 01:33:47,610 That's I don't, it may not take as much pressure as we think. I 1546 01:33:47,610 --> 01:33:50,730 don't think so either. I mean, I think I'm gonna lay my case out 1547 01:33:50,730 --> 01:33:54,000 before them. It's like, the timing is interesting. Why, why? 1548 01:33:54,060 --> 01:33:59,700 Why even? Why even compete with Spotify? That's fine. If you 1549 01:33:59,700 --> 01:34:04,110 want to do that, you know, it would be is Apple plus Apple TV 1550 01:34:04,110 --> 01:34:07,560 plus really competing with other things? Is it really? 1551 01:34:08,640 --> 01:34:12,210 You said, I mean, Adam, you said, you know, a couple months 1552 01:34:12,210 --> 01:34:16,740 ago that you think that Joe Rogan will be coming back, you 1553 01:34:16,740 --> 01:34:18,930 know, outside of the ecosystem as well that they'll have to 1554 01:34:18,930 --> 01:34:19,950 open that thing back up? 1555 01:34:20,190 --> 01:34:22,380 Yeah, I think so. I think they're gonna have a real 1556 01:34:22,380 --> 01:34:25,200 problem getting the numbers that they that they wanted to get. 1557 01:34:25,530 --> 01:34:29,220 Absolutely, based on what I've seen, are already the audience 1558 01:34:29,220 --> 01:34:34,650 his audience reaction, that that's a very likely scenario. I 1559 01:34:34,650 --> 01:34:38,280 mean, and if that happens, that tells me everything I need to 1560 01:34:38,280 --> 01:34:42,540 know about people's about the successful about whether it's 1561 01:34:42,540 --> 01:34:45,990 going to be successful, to capture exclusive content, and 1562 01:34:45,990 --> 01:34:47,070 that your business model, 1563 01:34:47,250 --> 01:34:50,550 then that and that's the mistake that they're making some mistake 1564 01:34:50,550 --> 01:34:56,700 that Apple's making is the ID n and Spotify is the idea that the 1565 01:34:56,700 --> 01:35:01,440 success lies with the podcaster With the audience and the 1566 01:35:01,440 --> 01:35:07,920 audience is all over the place. And by the way, they, Spotify 1567 01:35:07,920 --> 01:35:11,760 may come for the podcast apps next, they may start buying 1568 01:35:11,760 --> 01:35:12,210 people. 1569 01:35:13,139 --> 01:35:13,949 Hmm, 1570 01:35:14,250 --> 01:35:18,840 I don't put that beyond them at all. So make sure you got all 1571 01:35:18,840 --> 01:35:22,260 your damn features integrated before you become a millionaire, 1572 01:35:22,260 --> 01:35:23,730 your damn developers, 1573 01:35:24,030 --> 01:35:28,290 does transistor have a app do have an actual app? There's no, 1574 01:35:28,800 --> 01:35:29,220 we don't. 1575 01:35:29,519 --> 01:35:32,549 Yeah, just testing, we really want things to be as simple. 1576 01:35:32,579 --> 01:35:36,659 That's the beautiful part about an open system is that you can 1577 01:35:36,659 --> 01:35:41,129 provide one part of the value chain and then let other folks 1578 01:35:41,129 --> 01:35:45,779 do what they're good at total, is so as a two person company, 1579 01:35:45,779 --> 01:35:48,419 we can you know, have a good business and have a good life 1580 01:35:48,419 --> 01:35:52,949 and serve our customers and go home and eat dinner with the fam 1581 01:35:52,949 --> 01:35:56,849 you know. And so I, our preference is that to encourage 1582 01:35:56,849 --> 01:36:01,949 the overall ecosystem have, you know, we have an API, we, we 1583 01:36:01,949 --> 01:36:05,249 want other folks to build stuff on top of what we've got or 1584 01:36:05,369 --> 01:36:08,969 build stuff on top of just pot, you know, podcasting in general, 1585 01:36:09,629 --> 01:36:13,379 by the way, cannot cannot view source your API documentation 1586 01:36:13,379 --> 01:36:15,929 and just steal all of your styles and all that stuff can 1587 01:36:15,959 --> 01:36:18,839 make because our API documentation looks like 1588 01:36:18,839 --> 01:36:19,529 garbage. 1589 01:36:19,769 --> 01:36:20,879 You should also use 1590 01:36:21,509 --> 01:36:24,569 tailwind, tailwind. CSS is what we've been using for all of our 1591 01:36:24,569 --> 01:36:25,019 stuff. 1592 01:36:25,620 --> 01:36:29,010 Okay, cool. So yeah, cuz I was looking at your API about a week 1593 01:36:29,010 --> 01:36:33,690 ago, and I was like, Man, it's documentation is so pretty, are 1594 01:36:33,690 --> 01:36:34,380 just like a dump. 1595 01:36:35,940 --> 01:36:37,320 All right. Now, 1596 01:36:37,349 --> 01:36:41,969 now we're down into nerd stuff. Looks. Pretty baby. 1597 01:36:44,400 --> 01:36:46,800 I mean, you know, Pornhub got defunded, so I gotta do 1598 01:36:46,800 --> 01:36:47,220 something. 1599 01:36:48,420 --> 01:36:53,460 Justin, and john transistor.fm. Really appreciate the work you 1600 01:36:53,460 --> 01:36:55,830 guys are doing in the podcasting. I'm gonna say it in 1601 01:36:55,830 --> 01:37:01,680 the podcasting space. It's super important. We support everybody 1602 01:37:01,680 --> 01:37:05,340 who is who is out there making it happen, who is independent. 1603 01:37:05,820 --> 01:37:08,640 And I really appreciate you guys taking the time to share your 1604 01:37:08,640 --> 01:37:09,600 thoughts with us today. 1605 01:37:10,560 --> 01:37:11,760 Yeah, this is fun. Yeah. 1606 01:37:11,790 --> 01:37:13,530 Thanks for having us. Yeah, we really, really appreciate what 1607 01:37:13,530 --> 01:37:15,330 you guys are doing to push things forward. 1608 01:37:15,840 --> 01:37:17,910 Well, I want to say thanks to because you're one of the I 1609 01:37:17,910 --> 01:37:20,760 mean, you're very early to integrate with the artists 1610 01:37:20,760 --> 01:37:23,550 submission to the index, I think. I think y'all implemented 1611 01:37:23,550 --> 01:37:28,020 that maybe like two or three weeks after we launched pod cast 1612 01:37:28,020 --> 01:37:29,640 index. So I mean, it's right, 1613 01:37:29,700 --> 01:37:32,850 right in the UI, people can click a button right when after 1614 01:37:32,850 --> 01:37:35,700 they submit to Apple, they click a button and automatically 1615 01:37:35,700 --> 01:37:37,170 submit it to the index. Pretty cool. 1616 01:37:37,200 --> 01:37:39,450 Yeah, we really appreciate y'all jumping on board. That was 1617 01:37:39,450 --> 01:37:39,870 great. 1618 01:37:39,900 --> 01:37:43,290 And we and we'll, we'll get you into one of these tests with 1619 01:37:43,290 --> 01:37:47,850 some of the the pledge model apps I think you'll enjoy seeing 1620 01:37:47,850 --> 01:37:51,240 it absolutely. will show you the future. The future is testing 1621 01:37:51,240 --> 01:37:54,480 2.0 Ladies and gentlemen, Dave, anything else I can do for you? 1622 01:37:54,480 --> 01:37:56,760 What do you need? Oh, 1623 01:37:57,179 --> 01:38:03,029 the day job has been hectic this week. And yeah, any any coffee 1624 01:38:04,049 --> 01:38:05,519 in a good book. 1625 01:38:07,380 --> 01:38:09,300 All right, everybody. We are building the future of 1626 01:38:09,300 --> 01:38:13,530 podcasting, podcasting. 2.0 Dave, we'll do another board 1627 01:38:13,530 --> 01:38:15,330 meeting next next Friday, my friend. 1628 01:38:15,780 --> 01:38:16,470 I see you bro. 1629 01:38:16,530 --> 01:38:20,610 All right, everybody. Make sure you support us if you feel like 1630 01:38:20,610 --> 01:38:23,850 your time Townsend treasure podcast index.org podcast. 1631 01:38:24,630 --> 01:38:26,370 We'll see you next week. Bye. Bye, everybody. 1632 01:38:41,580 --> 01:38:46,140 You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 visit podcast. 1633 01:38:46,950 --> 01:38:48,900 org for more information.