1 00:00:05,310 --> 00:00:12,330 Moe Factz with Adam curry August 26 2019 Episode Five. Oh Moe 2 00:00:12,330 --> 00:00:15,180 you've done it again to me. You brought the brought the music 3 00:00:15,180 --> 00:00:15,780 once again 4 00:00:16,770 --> 00:00:18,660 as Grandmaster Flash, a message. 5 00:00:18,690 --> 00:00:22,080 I think I can still do it. Let me see if I can do it hold on a 6 00:00:22,080 --> 00:00:27,210 sec when we see broken glass everywhere people pissing on the 7 00:00:27,210 --> 00:00:30,240 stairs no that just don't care. I can't take the smell can't 8 00:00:30,270 --> 00:00:33,600 take the noise gotten the money move out. Guess it got no choice 9 00:00:33,750 --> 00:00:36,750 wrapped in the front room roaches in the back. jockeys in 10 00:00:36,750 --> 00:00:39,780 the alley with a baseball bat tried to get away but it 11 00:00:39,780 --> 00:00:42,930 couldn't get bought because a man with a tow truck to test my 12 00:00:42,930 --> 00:00:48,000 car. Okay, there we go. This came out. This came out when I 13 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,630 was a kid. I used to know all of it 14 00:00:52,050 --> 00:00:55,920 is the message. Yeah, it is the message. That's I think that's 15 00:00:56,010 --> 00:01:00,450 appropriate for what we're about to talk to talk about today. As 16 00:01:00,450 --> 00:01:04,170 if people haven't noticed all the all the music is appropriate 17 00:01:04,170 --> 00:01:07,470 to the shows. I'm sure we have some very smart listeners. So 18 00:01:08,370 --> 00:01:11,100 they might have figured it out. Yeah, right. Right. Just for 19 00:01:11,100 --> 00:01:14,310 just for the people that you know, maybe just tuning in that 20 00:01:14,340 --> 00:01:18,450 bill will pick that up. One thing I'd like to clear up from 21 00:01:18,450 --> 00:01:24,600 the last show is I said, auto Sterling was the guy that was 22 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:30,540 choked out. I knew we got that one wrong. Yes. Ah Is Eric 23 00:01:30,540 --> 00:01:34,590 Garner Gardner, right. All right. So I want to apologize 24 00:01:34,590 --> 00:01:39,750 for that. Just a little fat check. Clean up fat check call. 25 00:01:41,850 --> 00:01:47,610 So many people hit me in the DMS and I'm like Eric Garner, Eric. 26 00:01:47,940 --> 00:01:50,520 Well, hopefully that's not the only thing they took away from 27 00:01:50,550 --> 00:01:51,930 Episode Four. But yeah, 28 00:01:52,860 --> 00:01:58,260 I just wanted to clear that up right up front. So how's 29 00:01:58,260 --> 00:01:59,340 everything else going? Now? 30 00:01:59,369 --> 00:02:02,699 Everything's good in opportunity zone? 33 on the frontier of 31 00:02:02,699 --> 00:02:04,649 Austin, Texas. How about you? 32 00:02:05,670 --> 00:02:12,750 Everything's gone. Great. got an email from last show. Concerning 33 00:02:12,750 --> 00:02:18,330 last show, the clip we played. I forget the gentleman's name. 34 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:27,930 Terrible. It was the immigration hurting are hurting black people 35 00:02:27,930 --> 00:02:28,290 clip? 36 00:02:28,830 --> 00:02:33,480 Ah, yes. Okay. I don't remember either who that was. But I know 37 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:34,740 exactly what you're talking about. 38 00:02:35,010 --> 00:02:38,070 So the gentleman from net clear, and I'm going to find his name 39 00:02:38,070 --> 00:02:44,040 because it's important, but he will possibly want to do an 40 00:02:44,070 --> 00:02:49,200 interview. Oh, wonder listeners made the connection. Nice. I 41 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:54,420 don't want to say the wave and head Ted Hayes. Yes, Ted Hayes, 42 00:02:54,420 --> 00:02:57,420 right? Is the gentleman from the clip, I don't want to say that 43 00:02:57,420 --> 00:03:00,750 person's name for email credit and get the Okay. But you know 44 00:03:00,750 --> 00:03:03,900 who you are. And I much appreciate that. Because that's 45 00:03:03,900 --> 00:03:09,690 what we want from, from this channel is to, you know, bring 46 00:03:09,690 --> 00:03:12,390 good information in so it can be dispersed. 47 00:03:12,389 --> 00:03:15,629 And we'll be talking about this at the end of the show. But the 48 00:03:15,629 --> 00:03:19,439 idea of how these types of podcasts work, he falls under 49 00:03:19,439 --> 00:03:22,169 the value for value system. And we'll talk a bit about at the 50 00:03:22,169 --> 00:03:26,849 end, as I said, but in effects. Everyone is a listener, but more 51 00:03:26,849 --> 00:03:29,849 importantly, everybody becomes a producer. And there's many ways 52 00:03:29,849 --> 00:03:32,699 you can help. And that's a great example when someone has a 53 00:03:32,729 --> 00:03:37,289 knowledge information to contact any other skills that you think 54 00:03:37,289 --> 00:03:39,779 would contribute to the show. You're a producer and you'll be 55 00:03:39,779 --> 00:03:43,649 credited as such as well. So that's exactly what producers do 56 00:03:43,649 --> 00:03:47,369 is find connections and reach out and try and make the program 57 00:03:47,369 --> 00:03:47,729 better. 58 00:03:48,330 --> 00:03:51,810 And we love those subject matter experts like the other gentleman 59 00:03:51,810 --> 00:03:55,260 Macao wrote in about the opportunity's own so I'm loving 60 00:03:55,260 --> 00:03:57,840 getting all this information because it gives you a better 61 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:01,470 well rounded view on the topics that we discussed. 62 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:04,650 Yes. And I'm sure we'll come around to many of the topics 63 00:04:04,650 --> 00:04:05,940 that we've already covered. 64 00:04:06,509 --> 00:04:11,249 Yes. So with that said where we left off in the last couple of 65 00:04:11,249 --> 00:04:16,949 shows were the think tanks. We looked at the left leaning think 66 00:04:16,949 --> 00:04:20,039 tanks we looked at last show we looked at the right leaning 67 00:04:20,039 --> 00:04:24,719 Think Tank, Prager University or Praeger you and I found this 68 00:04:24,749 --> 00:04:31,109 interesting clip isn't it's from a movie, but a candidate 69 00:04:31,139 --> 00:04:36,089 described describes or details. I think how a conversation may 70 00:04:36,089 --> 00:04:40,199 go between these two schools of thought that's trying to 71 00:04:40,199 --> 00:04:44,549 persuade black people to think one way or another. And that's 72 00:04:44,549 --> 00:04:45,389 trick baby. 73 00:04:46,260 --> 00:04:49,650 As you liberals who have lifted them up power, Paul, you 74 00:04:49,650 --> 00:04:53,580 conservatives make the mistake. You can't afford to strangle 75 00:04:53,580 --> 00:04:58,350 hope and people without hope. People become dangerous. No are 76 00:04:58,350 --> 00:05:01,800 you liberals have left them in vade our society, you give them 77 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:06,480 jobs, political job, Oh, you missed the point. Only the smart 78 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:11,190 ones we move up. That makes it even worse. Oh, we have to move 79 00:05:11,190 --> 00:05:14,550 them up. If we leave a smart one in the ghetto, you might develop 80 00:05:14,550 --> 00:05:18,090 into a leader against us. But if we raise him up into white 81 00:05:18,090 --> 00:05:24,330 society, we neutralize. It feels compelled to try wag like us. He 82 00:05:24,330 --> 00:05:29,460 loses his identity and his racial anger. If he has the he 83 00:05:29,460 --> 00:05:33,840 becomes alien to his brothers. They realize he sold them out 84 00:05:33,840 --> 00:05:37,800 and they grow to hate him. He becomes worthless to them, and 85 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:42,120 safe for us. No, thank you. In fact, in his love for the 86 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:46,470 creature comforts, except for his color. He's become one of 87 00:05:46,470 --> 00:05:46,920 us. 88 00:05:48,270 --> 00:05:50,760 Wow, who was in this movie? 89 00:05:51,210 --> 00:05:55,740 And that's the movie of trick baby from 1974. It was one of 90 00:05:55,740 --> 00:06:02,040 the Blaxploitation films. And the reason why I brought that is 91 00:06:02,100 --> 00:06:05,370 I thought that was a great illustration for the two 92 00:06:05,370 --> 00:06:08,220 extremes, the left and the right, right, they're vying for 93 00:06:08,220 --> 00:06:13,350 the mind of the of the black man. I would imagine how this 94 00:06:13,350 --> 00:06:17,640 conversation goes. Now this is not saying the run of the mill, 95 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:21,540 average, General, left or right person, these are extremes. So I 96 00:06:21,540 --> 00:06:24,930 wanted to bring that to the table to kind of illustrate what 97 00:06:24,930 --> 00:06:30,720 I think how that conversation might go to the listeners, you 98 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:37,530 have two schools of thought of how to control our persuade the 99 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:43,020 black community, the quote, unquote, black community. So 100 00:06:43,980 --> 00:06:45,990 what did you take away from that clip? Adam? 101 00:06:46,020 --> 00:06:50,220 Well, what it sounded like to me is, well, first of all, 102 00:06:51,390 --> 00:06:55,560 outrageous just to hear that conversation. But both sides 103 00:06:55,560 --> 00:07:00,810 wanted to make the subjects it was mind control. I mean, either 104 00:07:00,810 --> 00:07:04,440 way was mind control based on human emotions. But the general 105 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,140 concept being if you can show something good and comfortable 106 00:07:07,140 --> 00:07:11,160 and nice over here, that's the direction people will go. And 107 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:14,100 there's all these ways you can exploit them on their journey. 108 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:17,340 Right. So that's the kind of thing that I wanted to 109 00:07:17,340 --> 00:07:20,490 illustrate, I think we, I think that was a nice little bow. To 110 00:07:20,490 --> 00:07:24,450 put on the previous conversation we were having of the two 111 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:28,830 extremes of the think tanks, or the think tanks, then a nice 112 00:07:28,830 --> 00:07:31,320 little one minute clip. And that, of 113 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:34,950 course, is not abnormal for the think tanks. In this case, it's 114 00:07:34,950 --> 00:07:39,660 about getting black people, nudging them where they want 115 00:07:39,660 --> 00:07:43,020 them to go. This happens, of course, for all groups and races 116 00:07:43,020 --> 00:07:44,250 and religions, etc. 117 00:07:45,390 --> 00:07:48,570 And I'm glad you brought up that word nudging because we're right 118 00:07:48,570 --> 00:07:53,220 back where we left off. So we brought this term up nudging in 119 00:07:53,220 --> 00:07:57,840 a previous show, but we really didn't lay out what it was, I 120 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:02,520 mean, in detail and how it works. And I saw one of the 121 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:09,750 greatest nudges of all time. With the Popeyes versus Chick 122 00:08:09,750 --> 00:08:13,620 fil A conversation who has the best sandwich. The reason why I 123 00:08:13,620 --> 00:08:22,020 say that is one for people of my community, a certain 124 00:08:22,020 --> 00:08:27,390 conversation that we don't have in mixed company. So for this to 125 00:08:27,390 --> 00:08:32,160 take place on social media so openly, it made me wonder what 126 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:37,740 is happening here. And just to give us testament of how taboo 127 00:08:37,740 --> 00:08:42,660 is to have this conversation in public. For one, I feel 128 00:08:42,690 --> 00:08:45,270 uncomfortable right now having this conversation. 129 00:08:45,690 --> 00:08:48,690 Really okay. And I'm not even sure what the conversation is 130 00:08:48,690 --> 00:08:49,200 yet Mo. 131 00:08:50,220 --> 00:09:00,870 The conversation is who has the better Froch? Waving this habit 132 00:09:00,870 --> 00:09:02,640 creeped over into your feed? 133 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:07,980 No, though, I know about the Fast Food Wars, where there's a 134 00:09:07,980 --> 00:09:11,160 lot going on on Twitter. And I have followed that a bit but 135 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:15,090 never in this context. And I certainly didn't know that it is 136 00:09:15,090 --> 00:09:20,340 a social taboo amongst black Americans to discuss who has the 137 00:09:20,340 --> 00:09:22,110 better chicken sandwich. 138 00:09:22,470 --> 00:09:27,780 No, just no. Discuss fried chicken in general. It's certain 139 00:09:27,780 --> 00:09:32,040 things that are stereotypical and of course, this is for every 140 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:35,610 community, of course, that you don't discuss that stereotypical 141 00:09:35,610 --> 00:09:40,800 topic. in mixed company. It's not about who has the best or 142 00:09:40,830 --> 00:09:41,700 not, that's not 143 00:09:41,970 --> 00:09:45,660 just about the whole fried chicken thing and that's fine. 144 00:09:45,690 --> 00:09:47,250 It's a trigger I get it of course, 145 00:09:47,550 --> 00:09:52,260 and the to illustrate that fried chicken in public. You know, 146 00:09:52,260 --> 00:09:54,600 when black people eat chicken for a long time, we didn't eat 147 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:59,550 it because of the racial stereotypes about us eating 148 00:09:59,550 --> 00:10:04,590 chicken Yeah. Do you think that because of what you do, and you 149 00:10:04,590 --> 00:10:08,250 know, even when I do with the comedy and stuff that we have 150 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,100 made it look different and made it acceptable? 151 00:10:11,340 --> 00:10:14,580 Yeah, I do. I mean, like I said, it's your approach to it, you 152 00:10:14,580 --> 00:10:18,270 know, like you approach it from an authentic organic, genuine, 153 00:10:18,270 --> 00:10:21,120 you know, I know you do that with your comedy, you're putting 154 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:25,710 good energy out. Just you just kind of, you know, showing 155 00:10:25,710 --> 00:10:29,910 something that's pretty obvious, but you know, it is what it is. 156 00:10:32,370 --> 00:10:35,010 Don't tell me you're actually going to take us back to the 157 00:10:35,010 --> 00:10:35,910 roots of this. 158 00:10:36,570 --> 00:10:39,810 No, I'm not gonna go there. Okay, I'm not gonna go because 159 00:10:39,810 --> 00:10:44,100 that's that will be that's a general conversation. Expected. 160 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:50,250 Got it. It's amazing that you haven't heard this topic. I am 161 00:10:50,250 --> 00:10:52,800 simply amazed because social media. 162 00:10:53,910 --> 00:10:57,720 Well, now, hold on, hold on. Let me just step back for a second 163 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:01,350 because I'm maybe I was a little confused. I've seen competing 164 00:11:01,350 --> 00:11:07,950 ads for chicken sandwiches from the fast food. And if I saw that 165 00:11:07,950 --> 00:11:11,310 on television, or read an article about it, but it's on 166 00:11:11,310 --> 00:11:14,820 the radar, but way off because it just, I haven't been thinking 167 00:11:14,820 --> 00:11:15,480 about it for me. 168 00:11:15,570 --> 00:11:19,590 That's not what I'm talking about here. Oh, social media was 169 00:11:19,620 --> 00:11:19,800 a 170 00:11:19,799 --> 00:11:22,799 blade. Oh, boy, a 171 00:11:22,799 --> 00:11:28,409 blaze, like the conversation of who has the best chicken 172 00:11:28,409 --> 00:11:34,529 sandwich? Popeyes versus Chick fil A. And the reason why I 173 00:11:34,529 --> 00:11:39,659 bring this up is this is the perfect example of several 174 00:11:39,659 --> 00:11:43,229 things that's discussed on this show. And even on the knowledge 175 00:11:43,229 --> 00:11:54,389 in the show, one the native add to nudging. And three, how these 176 00:11:54,389 --> 00:11:58,619 social media conversations happen in silos. I just want to 177 00:11:58,619 --> 00:12:02,429 say I'm amazed that you didn't see this trending on your 178 00:12:02,429 --> 00:12:05,699 timeline. And we both agree that you have a gray. 179 00:12:06,210 --> 00:12:10,770 Yes, I do have a yes, I do have a great timeline. That's right. 180 00:12:11,220 --> 00:12:15,750 That is amazing. I am flabbergasted that you haven't 181 00:12:15,810 --> 00:12:16,470 heard it. 182 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:20,729 But my I don't know if I'm supposed to feel bad or not. But 183 00:12:21,029 --> 00:12:24,989 it's my filters around for other stuff. So I've just been looking 184 00:12:24,989 --> 00:12:28,889 at other things. And by the way, I don't like chicken sandwiches. 185 00:12:29,340 --> 00:12:34,680 I don't think you understand how big this was. Made local news. 186 00:12:35,069 --> 00:12:38,309 Oh my goodness. I need to hand in my credentials. 187 00:12:38,940 --> 00:12:40,620 Popeyes versus Chick fil A. 188 00:12:41,250 --> 00:12:44,730 The chicken sandwich war wages on tonight and the upland team 189 00:12:44,730 --> 00:12:47,370 is putting the Popeyes chicken sandwich to the test. We'll get 190 00:12:47,370 --> 00:12:49,860 to that in just a moment. But if you've missed out on what 191 00:12:49,860 --> 00:12:52,470 everyone's talking about, let's kind of catch you up. This is 192 00:12:52,470 --> 00:12:55,650 the new Popeyes chicken sandwich that's got so many folks talking 193 00:12:55,650 --> 00:12:59,040 it started the debate the chain put it out last week nationwide 194 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:01,890 and many people were comparing it to the Atlanta born Chick fil 195 00:13:01,890 --> 00:13:04,800 A chicken sandwich that was all well and good until chick fillet 196 00:13:04,890 --> 00:13:08,850 responded with this tweet saying all love for the original 197 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:12,690 Popeyes of course response and are y'all good. And then we see 198 00:13:12,690 --> 00:13:15,360 when these jump into the fray saying these two fools are 199 00:13:15,420 --> 00:13:19,320 competing for second best sandwich. Of course, Popeye's, 200 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:21,870 responding again saying you must have ate one of our biscuits 201 00:13:21,870 --> 00:13:24,060 because you're looking thirsty and windy thing that means your 202 00:13:24,060 --> 00:13:27,960 food is as dry as your jokes. This is going on with so many 203 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:31,290 other companies getting in on it. A 2013 study from Cornell 204 00:13:31,290 --> 00:13:35,250 University found 59% of chain restaurants and 79% of 205 00:13:35,250 --> 00:13:38,430 independent restaurants use social media and that study was 206 00:13:38,430 --> 00:13:41,040 from six years ago. So we're seeing much more we're also 207 00:13:41,040 --> 00:13:44,100 seeing the chains getting sassy online. So this likely won't be 208 00:13:44,100 --> 00:13:47,790 the last time we see some sort of war on social media. Yeah, 209 00:13:47,820 --> 00:13:52,140 okay. Yes, I read about this, but I read it in an advertising 210 00:13:52,170 --> 00:13:56,340 industry magazine. And so and it was more a little broader 211 00:13:56,340 --> 00:13:59,970 context about the advertisers using social media and the 212 00:13:59,970 --> 00:14:03,510 pitfalls and the upside etc. So I have more background 213 00:14:03,510 --> 00:14:08,280 information than of the actual incredible extravaganza of 214 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:10,290 outrage over which sandwich is the best. 215 00:14:11,940 --> 00:14:17,430 And this is my point for this conversation to happen in the 216 00:14:17,460 --> 00:14:24,540 black community on social media. Shows you the power of the 217 00:14:24,540 --> 00:14:30,030 native ad and of social media. I can't say another word mind 218 00:14:30,030 --> 00:14:30,630 control. 219 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,630 And is is anonymity a part of this 220 00:14:34,769 --> 00:14:37,559 now that we have people putting their face 221 00:14:39,659 --> 00:14:43,949 I can tell knowing you that you are really blown away by this 222 00:14:43,949 --> 00:14:46,679 happening and that's fascinating because of course I missed this 223 00:14:46,679 --> 00:14:49,259 How the hell would I would I know that this is not something 224 00:14:49,259 --> 00:14:53,159 you talk about in mixed company yet on social media is blowing 225 00:14:53,159 --> 00:14:53,549 up. 226 00:14:54,210 --> 00:15:02,850 I am irked. I am amazed ah Oh, I like, like, for lack of better. 227 00:15:02,850 --> 00:15:12,180 I'm flabbergasted that the topic of the conversation being had it 228 00:15:12,180 --> 00:15:16,470 grew to a certain level, as we've discussed before, it's 229 00:15:16,470 --> 00:15:21,720 just a little low, low background. It starts, it starts 230 00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:26,280 trending on social media. Then the local news picks it up. Yep. 231 00:15:26,610 --> 00:15:30,300 So for the fact for this local, this is a local news station. I 232 00:15:30,300 --> 00:15:32,130 believe in Atlanta. I want to say, 233 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:35,340 well, maybe that's why it's news even though they didn't really 234 00:15:35,340 --> 00:15:36,210 say that. 235 00:15:37,710 --> 00:15:41,370 Right. The other thing is, and it clipped this part of the 236 00:15:41,370 --> 00:15:46,770 clip, they have a taste test. With three black people 237 00:15:47,399 --> 00:15:53,969 taking it to the extreme. Wait a minute, there's only three black 238 00:15:53,969 --> 00:15:57,449 people to test the chicken sandwiches. 239 00:15:57,870 --> 00:16:01,650 Yeah. And they had a guy was a white guy. He went on 240 00:16:01,650 --> 00:16:04,560 camera, and they called Donald Trump racist. This is great. 241 00:16:06,419 --> 00:16:13,349 But did you hear the language of the clip? I'm taken aback. I'll 242 00:16:13,349 --> 00:16:16,199 always use them amazed. I had people who were saying friends 243 00:16:16,229 --> 00:16:20,489 DM him like, do you see this? Do you see this conversation going 244 00:16:20,489 --> 00:16:23,459 on? I mean, more of the what you want to call you know, the, the, 245 00:16:23,489 --> 00:16:25,889 you know, the woke crowd, that 246 00:16:25,890 --> 00:16:28,500 word? Know that we know exactly what you mean. That's good. 247 00:16:28,950 --> 00:16:32,310 Do you see the conversation is gone on all social media right 248 00:16:32,310 --> 00:16:37,170 now. And I was so pissed. For the simple fact. There's certain 249 00:16:37,170 --> 00:16:40,680 things and I'm sure this was every culture that you don't 250 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,530 have this conversation in mixed company. 251 00:16:43,559 --> 00:16:47,879 Do you mind? Explore that for a second? Go ahead. You were 252 00:16:47,879 --> 00:16:52,589 pissed? What was your actual feeling? What I mean, you were 253 00:16:52,589 --> 00:16:57,839 pissed? Because it was happening because it felt like a taboo was 254 00:16:57,839 --> 00:17:00,719 broken. And why here? Why now? What were you feeling? What was 255 00:17:00,719 --> 00:17:02,099 your personal feeling about it? 256 00:17:03,390 --> 00:17:08,670 My personal feeling is this. There are certain cultural code 257 00:17:08,700 --> 00:17:11,520 and let's be clear, I don't even feel comfortable having this 258 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:12,960 conversation here now. 259 00:17:15,270 --> 00:17:19,110 Yeah, okay, that that explains so much right there. I gotcha. 260 00:17:19,110 --> 00:17:21,150 Because you're comfortable with pretty much everything. 261 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:26,340 Right? But there because what it does, it feeds the stereotype. 262 00:17:27,450 --> 00:17:31,500 And the clip we played before is people were black people 263 00:17:31,500 --> 00:17:36,480 wouldn't even cannibal eating chicken in public. Right. Um, 264 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,780 that was my EPS from the show. That's his television show. 265 00:17:39,780 --> 00:17:44,460 That's racist. So for this conversation too slow on social 266 00:17:44,460 --> 00:17:48,390 media. And then when you go back and listen to the these are the 267 00:17:48,390 --> 00:17:54,240 public accounts for Popeyes Chick fil A, and Wendy's timeout 268 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:59,610 you mad? You see these fools. It's like, who was typing this 269 00:17:59,610 --> 00:18:00,600 for these companies? 270 00:18:02,550 --> 00:18:05,790 That's what I always think, like, Wow, man, whose job is 271 00:18:05,790 --> 00:18:09,120 that to talk like this? And do they have some kind of approval 272 00:18:09,120 --> 00:18:11,460 chain of command? I always wonder about that. 273 00:18:12,300 --> 00:18:16,380 Right. So not to belabor the point. But the reason why I'm 274 00:18:16,380 --> 00:18:20,520 bringing this up is if you can have people have a taboo 275 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:23,430 conversation, or what is perceived as a taboo 276 00:18:23,430 --> 00:18:31,020 conversation, that shows you the level of expertise they have in 277 00:18:31,020 --> 00:18:34,740 this in this advertising and manipulation through social 278 00:18:34,740 --> 00:18:39,240 media. But to go forward, we have to go back and we have to 279 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,820 look at someone like air Edward Bernays, 280 00:18:42,090 --> 00:18:45,240 the father of propaganda. Yes, 281 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:52,650 he the father of propaganda, Tom Kellner, let's see a little 282 00:18:52,650 --> 00:19:02,790 background on him. Mr. Tom Kellner is the author of public 283 00:19:02,820 --> 00:19:08,310 relations and digital and digital age. He's at from the 284 00:19:08,310 --> 00:19:13,320 University of Florida College of journalism and communications. 285 00:19:13,650 --> 00:19:17,700 He's in his clip he speaks on Edward Bernays. 286 00:19:17,910 --> 00:19:21,060 It's funny because a lot of the cases in public relations that 287 00:19:21,060 --> 00:19:24,750 really illustrate some of the key principles are ones that the 288 00:19:24,750 --> 00:19:29,490 field gets criticized for Edward Bernays is a great example. I've 289 00:19:29,490 --> 00:19:32,940 got the classic case in there on the torches of freedom, where he 290 00:19:32,940 --> 00:19:38,220 basically used techniques of Social Psychology of Persuasion 291 00:19:38,220 --> 00:19:43,380 and develop new techniques to persuade women to smoke and on 292 00:19:43,380 --> 00:19:46,710 face value, you know, obviously, that's wrong, you know, why 293 00:19:46,710 --> 00:19:51,060 would we want anyone to smoke, let alone women in the 1920s. 294 00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:55,410 However, if you go down a layer, it's really interesting because 295 00:19:55,410 --> 00:19:58,320 it opens up for First of all, what are the what are the 296 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:00,990 practices that are at work? there. And even if you think 297 00:20:00,990 --> 00:20:04,560 about the most evil propaganda in the world, we need to be able 298 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:08,070 to understand those processes so that we can identify them. 299 00:20:08,070 --> 00:20:11,010 That's an important societal function that's important and 300 00:20:11,010 --> 00:20:12,090 critical thinking. 301 00:20:13,020 --> 00:20:16,740 Yeah, this is good. This is the foundation of advertising. And 302 00:20:16,740 --> 00:20:19,380 it's very important for people don't understand these, this 303 00:20:19,380 --> 00:20:19,920 history. 304 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,280 And the reason why I use this clip is he brought up the 305 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,590 torches of freedom. Have you heard of that atom? 306 00:20:25,620 --> 00:20:28,230 I've heard? I've heard it. Yes. I could not tell you what it 307 00:20:28,230 --> 00:20:28,650 means. 308 00:20:28,890 --> 00:20:33,060 Okay, so background on the torches of freedom. And you're 309 00:20:33,060 --> 00:20:40,590 going to see some parallels here. In the 1920s. It was taboo 310 00:20:40,650 --> 00:20:44,910 for women to smoke. Especially in public. 311 00:20:44,940 --> 00:20:49,080 Oh, yes. I remember. Is this the parade? Yes. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. 312 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:49,500 All right. 313 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:57,000 Now, we see we're talking taboos here. Edward Bernays to women 314 00:20:57,390 --> 00:21:01,080 gave them cigarettes, specifically lucky strikes. 315 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,560 That's what we work for. And gave them to a group of 316 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:09,960 feminists and a parade and show them marching down the street, 317 00:21:10,410 --> 00:21:13,110 smoking the cigarettes and the parade. Was this 318 00:21:13,140 --> 00:21:16,290 what the suffered the suffragette movement was co 319 00:21:16,290 --> 00:21:17,400 opted for this, I think, 320 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:22,110 Ah, I think wasn't that more power vision or no, 321 00:21:22,140 --> 00:21:24,000 no, no. Well, it was the right for women to vote. 322 00:21:25,710 --> 00:21:28,110 Now saying what and I thought they were more involved in the 323 00:21:28,110 --> 00:21:32,640 prohibition but I'm maybe maybe I'm may be off. 324 00:21:32,850 --> 00:21:35,130 All right, keep going. I'll I'll do a quick lookup, just. 325 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:41,070 So the point is to show you is with public relations, as they 326 00:21:41,070 --> 00:21:45,720 call it. A better term for that is propaganda. And they use the 327 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,660 term propaganda, they stop using the term propaganda because of 328 00:21:48,660 --> 00:21:55,170 the loaded weight that that word had and switched over to public 329 00:21:55,170 --> 00:21:58,050 relations. So one thing I want people to take away from is 330 00:21:58,050 --> 00:22:02,160 anytime you see that word public relations, substitute that for 331 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:07,200 propagandists, right, because that's the proper term for it. 332 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:11,040 But Edward Bernays, he's a genius. Think he was Sigmund 333 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:18,270 Freud's nephew. Correct. So he understood psychology very well. 334 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:24,750 And he wrote many books, and he was the industry like kureta a 335 00:22:24,750 --> 00:22:28,260 public relations out I would say, I would say without being a 336 00:22:28,260 --> 00:22:32,520 stretch, he's also also the person that said bacon and eggs. 337 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,000 Were a great American breakfast, healthy breakfast, because he 338 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:41,370 got doctors to convenient out. So this had happened. Pork 339 00:22:41,370 --> 00:22:47,700 farmers had a high quantity of low quality meat called Bacon 340 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:55,050 that they needed to sell. So he convinced doctors to come out 341 00:22:55,050 --> 00:22:59,310 and say, a great hearty American breakfast is bacon and eggs. And 342 00:22:59,310 --> 00:23:02,910 that allowed him to sell this meat that was really unwanted. 343 00:23:04,350 --> 00:23:05,400 And now let's the 344 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:10,020 American way MO That is the American way. I'm just 345 00:23:10,110 --> 00:23:13,170 That's great. Wrong. Yeah, right, wrong. And this leads us 346 00:23:13,170 --> 00:23:17,820 into the second clip of what is okay and what is not. Okay. 347 00:23:18,209 --> 00:23:21,599 But the other important part is let's let's hash out the ethical 348 00:23:21,599 --> 00:23:25,349 part is does that mean that you know, organizations should never 349 00:23:25,349 --> 00:23:29,159 try to persuade somebody to buy a product? And again, I think 350 00:23:29,159 --> 00:23:33,089 it's, we can say yes, it's bad to promote cigarettes. But I 351 00:23:33,089 --> 00:23:36,059 think we need to say, Well, wait a minute, why, you know, what 352 00:23:36,059 --> 00:23:39,239 was Bearnaise actually doing wrong? If that had been a 353 00:23:39,239 --> 00:23:42,689 socially responsible product or something that really helps 354 00:23:42,689 --> 00:23:46,649 society? And he didn't do a lot of that too. You know, how can 355 00:23:46,649 --> 00:23:50,189 we separate out you know, what makes one case unethical? From 356 00:23:50,189 --> 00:23:53,189 what another case? What makes another case ethical? 357 00:23:54,540 --> 00:23:58,920 Yeah, that's a good question. So, this is we're gonna start 358 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:04,890 seeing seeing a theme here moving forward of ethics. Is it 359 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:13,380 ethical for people to be nudged? So we have Mr. Richard Taylor. 360 00:24:14,100 --> 00:24:17,670 And Mr. Richard Thaler is from the University of Chicago, 361 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:21,240 Graduate School of Business. Now he's a professor there. And he 362 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,930 wrote a book nudge improving decisions about health, wealth 363 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:29,760 and happiness. And in the next clip, we won't have Mr. Taylor, 364 00:24:30,150 --> 00:24:32,520 do an overview of what a nudge is. 365 00:24:33,630 --> 00:24:37,830 Nudge is any small feature in the environment that attracts 366 00:24:37,830 --> 00:24:42,390 our attention, and influences the behavior that we make. The 367 00:24:42,390 --> 00:24:48,360 nudging is done by what we call a choice architect, which is a 368 00:24:48,360 --> 00:24:53,100 fancy term for anyone who influences the choices that you 369 00:24:53,100 --> 00:24:58,650 make. Take the example of the cafeteria downstairs. Somebody 370 00:24:58,650 --> 00:25:02,190 had to decide when Where to put the salad bar where to put the 371 00:25:02,190 --> 00:25:05,940 burgers, where to put the ice cream, where to put the coffee. 372 00:25:06,690 --> 00:25:09,120 That person is a choice architect because the 373 00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:13,050 arrangement of the food influences the choices that we 374 00:25:13,050 --> 00:25:13,530 make. 375 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,320 Absolutely supermarkets, everything. 376 00:25:17,070 --> 00:25:21,780 All right, we see this in caps, the eye level products, compared 377 00:25:21,780 --> 00:25:25,800 to the ones on the bottom. So we see this in stores in a physical 378 00:25:25,830 --> 00:25:30,120 environment. But then we have to ask ourselves, what about in the 379 00:25:30,120 --> 00:25:35,610 cyber environment? Correct? Choice architects for what we 380 00:25:35,610 --> 00:25:41,160 see, oh, the banners, Western our feeds, what they determined 381 00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,940 to be most important on the rankings. We see this all the 382 00:25:44,940 --> 00:25:49,230 time. So I'm laying out a thing here of now we see how 383 00:25:49,230 --> 00:25:52,980 propaganda works, they can take things that are taboo, and make 384 00:25:52,980 --> 00:25:57,120 them more than acceptable, even though they may not be healthy 385 00:25:57,120 --> 00:26:02,250 or ethical. And we got to ask ourselves, who are these choice 386 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:08,700 architects? And what and how do we hold them responsible for 387 00:26:08,700 --> 00:26:12,660 their actions? So let's listen to the clip number two, some 388 00:26:12,660 --> 00:26:13,830 people worry 389 00:26:14,100 --> 00:26:19,350 that the idea of choice architects and nudging is 390 00:26:19,350 --> 00:26:23,130 somehow leading to Big Brother. And that's not the way we think 391 00:26:23,130 --> 00:26:27,240 about it. One of the points we stress in the book is that there 392 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,960 has to be some choice architecture. So the person who 393 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,800 designs that cafeteria downstairs has to put the food 394 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,130 somewhere, the salad has to be in front of the burgers or 395 00:26:38,130 --> 00:26:41,910 behind the burgers, given that you have to arrange the food in 396 00:26:41,910 --> 00:26:46,290 some order, we argue, why not have the choice architect, 397 00:26:46,650 --> 00:26:51,270 arrange the food in such a way that people will be happier and 398 00:26:51,270 --> 00:26:53,070 healthier? And maybe live a little? 399 00:26:55,230 --> 00:26:58,590 Yes, well, the only way to do that is to test and see what 400 00:26:58,590 --> 00:27:01,080 works better, and then implement the results. 401 00:27:01,890 --> 00:27:06,540 So this is my thesis on going back on the Popeyes versus Chick 402 00:27:06,540 --> 00:27:17,130 fil A debate. I think these social media companies 403 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,870 understand as don't work anymore. Would you agree? Would 404 00:27:21,870 --> 00:27:22,740 you agree that 405 00:27:22,770 --> 00:27:27,240 not only would I agree, I think Jack Dorsey is a very smart guy. 406 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:28,800 And he's probably figured this out. 407 00:27:30,180 --> 00:27:35,340 Correct. So with that understanding, can you explain 408 00:27:35,340 --> 00:27:38,760 to us and you're saying for the listeners, how do social media 409 00:27:38,790 --> 00:27:42,090 companies make their money? Because you don't pay to be on 410 00:27:42,120 --> 00:27:44,910 the to be on there? So how exactly do they make their 411 00:27:44,910 --> 00:27:45,570 money? Well, they 412 00:27:45,570 --> 00:27:49,920 have a lot of different revenue streams. Initially, just display 413 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:55,080 advertising was thought to work well. And too, so just when you 414 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,720 see an ad for something, Instagram is probably even a 415 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,480 better example where you see it pop up. That's very clear. 416 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:05,520 Twitter is much less clear is how it works. But the big part 417 00:28:05,550 --> 00:28:09,810 of the revenue is how can we exploit these people based upon 418 00:28:09,810 --> 00:28:13,440 the data that they are leaving behind with their behavioral 419 00:28:14,250 --> 00:28:15,000 footprint? 420 00:28:17,490 --> 00:28:25,200 So would you say, creating an argument about a product versus 421 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:29,790 one product A versus product B would kill two birds with one 422 00:28:29,790 --> 00:28:30,210 stone? 423 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:33,660 I think it kills a couple of birds. First of all, if I'm 424 00:28:33,660 --> 00:28:37,410 Twitter, and I know what my audience really likes better, 425 00:28:37,620 --> 00:28:39,900 I'm going to talk to those guys. And I'll probably talk to the 426 00:28:39,900 --> 00:28:42,150 other guys and give him the same information. Say you should be 427 00:28:42,150 --> 00:28:44,910 stepping up your game here because look, it looks like 428 00:28:44,910 --> 00:28:46,530 these guys are beating the pants off here. 429 00:28:48,420 --> 00:28:53,970 And what it seemed like to me was Popeyes was trolling Chick 430 00:28:53,970 --> 00:28:58,320 fil A, I mean, Chick fil A is number one and fast food period. 431 00:28:58,350 --> 00:29:02,910 This is exactly that article that I was reading was and they 432 00:29:02,910 --> 00:29:06,300 didn't even answer conclusively. Is this the strategy was the 433 00:29:06,300 --> 00:29:10,410 question is the strategy of one over the other to call one out 434 00:29:10,410 --> 00:29:13,950 to bring more attention to them. It's all up I'll see if I can 435 00:29:13,950 --> 00:29:16,320 put it in some show notes that fascinating article. So yeah, 436 00:29:16,500 --> 00:29:18,360 absolutely. This was strategy. 437 00:29:18,989 --> 00:29:21,959 So let me give you a little background from how I've seen 438 00:29:21,959 --> 00:29:25,949 this work in the music industry, which is the thing and rap 439 00:29:25,949 --> 00:29:32,309 called beef. And what B does is you have one the lesser MC or 440 00:29:32,399 --> 00:29:36,749 rapper called the other out, calls out the bigger rapper. 441 00:29:36,779 --> 00:29:40,379 Yep. And they keep doing it. You see it in boxing as well. But 442 00:29:40,379 --> 00:29:43,529 you're saying for this example we see and let's just take a rap 443 00:29:43,529 --> 00:29:49,619 for instance, to be the lesser of the two and garner you have 444 00:29:49,619 --> 00:29:54,569 to latch yourself on with the with the the top rapper and you 445 00:29:54,569 --> 00:29:58,619 do that by what they call beef. And the perfect example of this 446 00:29:58,649 --> 00:30:04,649 you know saying was So a guy named 50 cents. Maybe you heard 447 00:30:04,649 --> 00:30:11,369 of him? Yeah. What he when he was first coming up, there was a 448 00:30:11,369 --> 00:30:14,879 guy named John Rue, which a lot of people may not have heard of. 449 00:30:15,329 --> 00:30:15,779 He was 450 00:30:15,780 --> 00:30:17,400 the top fire festival. 451 00:30:18,149 --> 00:30:23,549 Right That guy? Well, before that he was he was one of the 452 00:30:23,549 --> 00:30:27,899 top representatives and the rat industry chair. And what 50 cent 453 00:30:28,019 --> 00:30:34,889 did was create a song about Ja Rule. That was so potent. It 454 00:30:34,889 --> 00:30:39,389 really it demanded a response. Right, exactly. And what that 455 00:30:39,389 --> 00:30:44,639 did was put 50 cents, the lesser rapper on the level of gyro, the 456 00:30:44,639 --> 00:30:47,699 number one selling, you're saying hitmaking rapper at the 457 00:30:47,699 --> 00:30:48,059 time. 458 00:30:48,090 --> 00:30:51,660 It's a well known tactic in marketplaces. Right? 459 00:30:51,690 --> 00:30:54,600 So just go to show you're saying, oh, and in layman's 460 00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:59,520 terms, how this works. So I think what happens is with the 461 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:06,810 help of Twitter, Popeyes, the lower of the two companies has a 462 00:31:06,810 --> 00:31:11,790 new product. Yep. And they came at the benchmark product. And 463 00:31:11,790 --> 00:31:16,020 for people too, it's a reflex thing. That's like saying, Ah, 464 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:19,440 you know, you know, fours are better than Chevy, you're gonna 465 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:25,770 get a 50% response. pushing back against that, which creates the 466 00:31:25,770 --> 00:31:30,390 momentum that you need. If I'm Chevrolet, you know, saying I'll 467 00:31:30,390 --> 00:31:34,980 have have my company say the new, the new Chevy truck kicks 468 00:31:35,310 --> 00:31:36,720 on 50s as right. 469 00:31:36,870 --> 00:31:41,370 Well, and this brings up an interesting point. In certainly 470 00:31:41,370 --> 00:31:45,480 television adverse advertising, we used to see a lot more of 471 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:49,650 product A versus product B. And they're very tight rules. If you 472 00:31:49,650 --> 00:31:54,510 say anything that is not 100% True, or which is subjective, 473 00:31:54,750 --> 00:31:58,020 but you're presenting as facts, you can get in a lot of trouble 474 00:31:58,020 --> 00:32:02,220 as an advertiser, social media, and I'm going to use the yet 475 00:32:02,220 --> 00:32:06,360 word in this case does not yet have these restrictions. Because 476 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:10,260 we're talking about the end, it's an added bonus, is that 477 00:32:10,350 --> 00:32:14,610 once you start the the beef so to speak, you can kind of step 478 00:32:14,610 --> 00:32:19,170 back and your fans step in and take over and they can be 479 00:32:19,170 --> 00:32:23,940 completely subjective, objective ly, whatever, say, Well, yeah, 480 00:32:23,970 --> 00:32:27,240 you know, your chicken tastes like poop. And like, you can't 481 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:30,390 say that on television. But when you have enough people, and I 482 00:32:30,390 --> 00:32:32,760 think this is where you're going, when the algos kick in, 483 00:32:33,090 --> 00:32:38,130 you can really make a difference. And probably change 484 00:32:38,130 --> 00:32:42,000 people's minds or at least bring something to their attention 485 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:43,770 they had not thought of previously. 486 00:32:44,460 --> 00:32:48,030 So there's a conversation out there saying, Well, why did they 487 00:32:48,030 --> 00:32:51,810 just get the influencers? To promote the sandwich? 488 00:32:52,350 --> 00:32:54,570 I think expensive is too expensive. 489 00:32:55,590 --> 00:32:59,640 Not only that, I think now, and I'm having a conversation with 490 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:07,200 another good friend of mine, a very smart guy named mg. I think 491 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:12,810 the kids my daughter's age, she's 15 going on 16 They look 492 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,110 at influencers now. And the same way my generation looked at 493 00:33:16,110 --> 00:33:18,750 commercials not to be trusted. 494 00:33:19,650 --> 00:33:22,620 Excellent point, we've, we've crossed the Rubicon, we've 495 00:33:22,620 --> 00:33:24,450 jumped the shark with the influencers. 496 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,800 Right? So once that happens, that makes them invalid or 497 00:33:29,010 --> 00:33:32,700 ineffective. So now you can't use an influencer, you can't 498 00:33:32,700 --> 00:33:37,740 give the top influencers, say hey, promote my product X and 499 00:33:37,740 --> 00:33:40,740 make it boom, because the kids are like my, you're getting a 500 00:33:40,770 --> 00:33:44,820 check for that flat tummy tea or, or whatever it is. You're 501 00:33:44,820 --> 00:33:49,260 saying you're pedaling. Yeah. So that's why it doesn't work. So 502 00:33:49,830 --> 00:33:56,070 as you laid out, the company can't say, my thing is better 503 00:33:56,070 --> 00:33:59,100 than their thing, because of what you're saying, libel 504 00:33:59,100 --> 00:34:00,840 reasons and legal reasons, correct? 505 00:34:00,870 --> 00:34:05,340 Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Very specific. It's probably FTC 506 00:34:05,340 --> 00:34:08,340 regulations. And there's a lot of lot of stuff you just can't 507 00:34:08,340 --> 00:34:11,520 do. And and I don't think these rules have adopted, although 508 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:16,260 there was one change made that you have to disclose if you're 509 00:34:16,260 --> 00:34:20,400 being paid for something as an influencer. But that disclosure 510 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,550 is, you know, almost like the, the fine print that you see 511 00:34:23,550 --> 00:34:27,090 underneath the financing for your, you know, the car TV ad, 512 00:34:27,330 --> 00:34:31,350 though, you know, it's minimal, but you do have to disclose that 513 00:34:31,350 --> 00:34:35,730 now. But that's about that's all all this really changed and may 514 00:34:35,730 --> 00:34:38,340 blow my mind because I hadn't really considered this 515 00:34:38,340 --> 00:34:41,880 particular example. But that is a very interesting business 516 00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:43,140 model they're employing there. 517 00:34:44,279 --> 00:34:48,689 So this is how I think going back to my theory, if I'm 518 00:34:48,689 --> 00:34:55,259 Popeyes. I have my people. Scrolling through searching 519 00:34:55,289 --> 00:35:00,359 through for who had the bunnies video about our product No, it's 520 00:35:00,359 --> 00:35:06,809 a useful idiot Of course. And then I go on say Twitter push 521 00:35:06,809 --> 00:35:13,229 the button on this guy yank him trend. Yep. It's authentic cuz 522 00:35:13,229 --> 00:35:16,769 this guy's a useful idiot he doesn't know he's saying he's in 523 00:35:16,799 --> 00:35:17,999 on the on the work 524 00:35:18,450 --> 00:35:23,190 even better. Narcissism kicks in and you're flying high when you 525 00:35:23,190 --> 00:35:26,370 start to get a lot of traction on social media as just a guy 526 00:35:26,370 --> 00:35:27,120 with a video. 527 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,350 And as we've seen with social media culture, and once one 528 00:35:31,350 --> 00:35:37,320 person gets goes viral, it's like a it's literally like a 529 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:41,820 virus. Everybody after that goes buys the product. Makes a video 530 00:35:41,820 --> 00:35:44,340 about it so they could possibly go viral Sue 531 00:35:45,690 --> 00:35:48,960 Bernays, is Bernays is rolling over in his grave right now. 532 00:35:50,340 --> 00:35:57,690 This pick you picking that one I'm putting down here? Okay, I 533 00:35:57,690 --> 00:36:02,580 saw I saw this. When I saw it, I didn't know what I was really 534 00:36:02,580 --> 00:36:06,930 seeing. So I started have to dig. But I like I said, when I 535 00:36:06,930 --> 00:36:11,490 get this itch on something. And as you know, the show was gonna 536 00:36:11,490 --> 00:36:14,400 go somewhere else we had talked about before, just on topic 537 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,360 wise. But this thing came and just not the other thing. Not, 538 00:36:18,510 --> 00:36:20,700 it didn't knock it out. But it puts it in perspective, we're 539 00:36:20,700 --> 00:36:23,970 gonna get there. But let's go to native advertising definition. 540 00:36:24,269 --> 00:36:27,689 So what is a native ad? What makes an ad native again, native 541 00:36:27,689 --> 00:36:31,919 advertising is a form of paid media, where the ad experience 542 00:36:32,879 --> 00:36:37,529 follows the form and function of the user experience in which it 543 00:36:37,529 --> 00:36:42,389 is placed. In other words, if you are on a blog, then the 544 00:36:42,419 --> 00:36:47,039 advertisements will look like some of the other blog content 545 00:36:47,099 --> 00:36:52,289 now it'll say sponsored, right? Or if you're in Facebook, you 546 00:36:52,289 --> 00:36:54,839 know, how many of you guys are in Facebook? Now you see these 547 00:36:54,869 --> 00:37:00,089 infeed ads? Right? You see the sponsored posts, the great CTR 548 00:37:00,089 --> 00:37:02,429 declined a great click through rate declined, click through 549 00:37:02,429 --> 00:37:06,509 rates have been on a dramatic downtrend. Really, since the 550 00:37:06,509 --> 00:37:10,379 very first banner ad impression was recorded. The very first 551 00:37:10,379 --> 00:37:12,959 time there was a banner ad on a website, people clicked on it 552 00:37:13,019 --> 00:37:17,459 the next day, less people clicked on it, when I mean, it's 553 00:37:17,519 --> 00:37:20,039 that's just that that's how it always goes. And then it goes on 554 00:37:20,039 --> 00:37:23,759 a steady decline and advertisers and and media companies have to 555 00:37:23,759 --> 00:37:27,539 innovate and figure out new ways to get people's attention. 556 00:37:27,569 --> 00:37:30,749 Because again, banner blindness is a very real thing. 557 00:37:33,030 --> 00:37:35,100 Yeah, banner blindness. 558 00:37:35,970 --> 00:37:37,410 Have you heard that term before? 559 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:41,400 Yes, because I was a part of the industry that created it and 560 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:46,200 oversaw its steady decline. There's one other economic 561 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:52,620 reason this happens. Why this type of advertising, typically, 562 00:37:52,740 --> 00:37:56,730 the way it's always been thought of, is you have 24 hours in a 563 00:37:56,730 --> 00:38:02,340 day. And you can have X amount of, of advertisements per slot, 564 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:07,200 or per pod, as they call it. And you can have X amount of pods 565 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,780 per hour. And it's a very delicate balance between what 566 00:38:09,780 --> 00:38:12,330 people will accept and sit through, or will they switch 567 00:38:12,330 --> 00:38:16,680 away and but the thing is, it's time based. So the Superbowl can 568 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:20,730 only have is probably 30 minutes of commercials over the course 569 00:38:20,730 --> 00:38:22,890 of the whole game is probably more, I'm just picking a number 570 00:38:23,370 --> 00:38:25,980 30 minutes of commercials, a number of full minute 571 00:38:25,980 --> 00:38:29,430 commercials, 32nd commercials, some that has that are a story. 572 00:38:29,430 --> 00:38:32,700 So we'll have four in a row. But if you want to get in there now 573 00:38:32,700 --> 00:38:36,090 you're in an actual supply and demand marketplace with the 574 00:38:36,090 --> 00:38:40,080 Internet. How many minutes do you want? It's infinite. So 575 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:44,430 there is it's very hard to create an artificial scarcity of 576 00:38:44,430 --> 00:38:49,800 your advertising inventory when you have unlimited inventory. So 577 00:38:49,860 --> 00:38:53,640 it demands this is what I found out after running a podcast 578 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,300 network that and I always say you cannot monetize the network. 579 00:38:58,350 --> 00:39:02,790 We had a very simple version of a Bearnaise strategy, although 580 00:39:02,790 --> 00:39:06,210 much more transparent. And that's how we initially made 581 00:39:06,210 --> 00:39:11,190 money. But the basic inventory model was flawed from the 582 00:39:11,190 --> 00:39:14,280 outset. And it demands something else to happen if these 583 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:15,870 companies are going to stay in business. 584 00:39:17,460 --> 00:39:21,930 So I want to bring up something here. So we spoke about 585 00:39:22,590 --> 00:39:28,920 blindness. My generation had a blindness to television 586 00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:33,300 commercials. Correct. In the first generation of Internet 587 00:39:33,300 --> 00:39:39,360 users develop banner blindness. I think what's happening now is 588 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:44,160 the generation after the millennial has influenced 589 00:39:44,190 --> 00:39:46,620 influencer about by a blindness Yep. 590 00:39:48,420 --> 00:39:50,640 I went I would say that's I would say that's probably 591 00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:51,180 correct. 592 00:39:51,570 --> 00:39:56,220 And that's why we're going back to Popeyes versus Chick fil A. 593 00:39:56,910 --> 00:40:00,630 We need the useful at it. You know, 594 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:04,560 of which Twitter is built on, 595 00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:10,800 right? Somebody's gonna say something funny about anything 596 00:40:10,830 --> 00:40:13,350 on Twitter if you do enough searching, and that's certainly 597 00:40:13,350 --> 00:40:13,890 a retweet 598 00:40:13,890 --> 00:40:14,520 right there. 599 00:40:15,809 --> 00:40:21,809 So what happened is, if I have a product, I'll push it out to the 600 00:40:21,809 --> 00:40:25,439 masses, you know, find a useful ad it, put the Twitter machine 601 00:40:25,439 --> 00:40:29,429 behind it. Half the people are gonna think it's funny, they're 602 00:40:29,429 --> 00:40:33,659 gonna share other half the people are gonna think, man, I'm 603 00:40:33,659 --> 00:40:38,519 funnier than that guy, I go buy the product. And then I make my 604 00:40:38,519 --> 00:40:43,049 own video. And then this is self feeding machine. This is very, 605 00:40:43,769 --> 00:40:47,189 I'm sorry, go ahead. And then the opposition is going to push 606 00:40:47,189 --> 00:40:51,749 back with equal force or more force field on the fire. And 607 00:40:51,749 --> 00:40:57,029 this is what we saw, um, I saw this thing pick up. And you 608 00:40:57,029 --> 00:41:02,759 know, just for complete clarity. Two weeks ago, I saw my daughter 609 00:41:02,759 --> 00:41:08,999 come in with a Popeyes bag. She didn't eat Popeyes chicken. And 610 00:41:08,999 --> 00:41:17,639 you know, and, oh, you can't had this two weeks ago. Right? It 611 00:41:17,639 --> 00:41:20,279 was training or her conversation, you were saying 612 00:41:20,279 --> 00:41:24,239 the teen age or conversate trivial conversation, it picked 613 00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:28,769 up enough steam. And then it now is made it's all way too late 614 00:41:28,769 --> 00:41:34,709 night news. So that just goes to show you how this machine works. 615 00:41:34,709 --> 00:41:37,739 But let's go into the second clip for native advertising. 616 00:41:37,950 --> 00:41:40,440 So that so either you want to stick out like a sore thumb, or 617 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:42,960 you want to blend in but you don't want to blend in to where 618 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,510 you just look like another boring banner ad, you want to 619 00:41:45,510 --> 00:41:49,260 blend in and look like content. And native advertising is the 620 00:41:49,260 --> 00:41:51,360 ultimate reflection of that because you're not just blending 621 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:55,020 in looking like content, you're blending in becoming content. 622 00:41:55,350 --> 00:41:59,550 Okay. And like I said, nobody wants this. Nobody wants to turn 623 00:41:59,580 --> 00:42:02,760 Pinterest into this. And this is what you have to do. If you 624 00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:04,590 really want to get click through rates back up, you got to 625 00:42:04,590 --> 00:42:08,460 surround the content with ugly obnoxious ads. Nobody wants 626 00:42:08,460 --> 00:42:12,300 that. So we talked about this morning native advertising is 627 00:42:12,300 --> 00:42:15,510 the thing that is coming on board that is going to change 628 00:42:15,510 --> 00:42:19,920 this and make it a lot easier. Gave the stats this morning, but 629 00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:25,620 it's really good to reiterate. Consumers look at native ads 52% 630 00:42:25,650 --> 00:42:30,480 More than traditional banner ads 52% More than traditional banner 631 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,540 ads. These were eye tracking studies that were done. That's 632 00:42:33,540 --> 00:42:36,570 impressive. But what's more impressive is that consumers 633 00:42:36,570 --> 00:42:42,240 look at native ads, more than editorial content, the native 634 00:42:42,240 --> 00:42:46,560 advertisements on these websites that have started running native 635 00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:51,840 advertisements get looked at more than the actual editorial 636 00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:55,590 content. And the reason is, is that it's marketers producing 637 00:42:55,590 --> 00:42:57,690 the headlines. I'd like 638 00:42:57,690 --> 00:43:01,830 to add here that the New York Times opened a native 639 00:43:01,830 --> 00:43:05,160 advertising division several years ago, I'm gonna think at 640 00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:11,250 least five years ago, and it is a thriving business. And I'm not 641 00:43:11,250 --> 00:43:14,820 I don't know if it may even be so that they're advertorial as 642 00:43:14,820 --> 00:43:18,030 we'll call her the native ads are consumed more than than 643 00:43:18,030 --> 00:43:21,960 their traditional news. They disclaim it, but it's so small. 644 00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:24,540 Again, it's the fine print just keeping within the realms of 645 00:43:24,540 --> 00:43:29,940 what's legal. And one other thing to the equation is where's 646 00:43:29,970 --> 00:43:34,830 banner ads would deliver a report that said, Well, this 647 00:43:34,830 --> 00:43:37,860 banner ad loaded on this computer screen, it could have 648 00:43:37,860 --> 00:43:40,980 been below the fold, it would be below the screen. So he didn't 649 00:43:40,980 --> 00:43:43,950 see it. It might have been obfuscated by something else. 650 00:43:43,950 --> 00:43:47,040 But that's the best metric we have. It's very poor 651 00:43:47,310 --> 00:43:50,730 information. When it and these are established terms. 652 00:43:50,730 --> 00:43:56,070 Engagement is a big term for advertising, measurement for 653 00:43:56,070 --> 00:44:00,060 statistical analysis of how your campaign is doing. And Twitter 654 00:44:00,060 --> 00:44:03,750 will deliver back to Popeyes. Here's how many people retweeted 655 00:44:03,750 --> 00:44:08,430 here's how many people sent it, added a friend in their retweet 656 00:44:08,430 --> 00:44:11,940 tag somebody, here's people who made a video. Here's people who 657 00:44:11,940 --> 00:44:15,510 wrote a joke. Here's other people who are trending. It is a 658 00:44:15,510 --> 00:44:18,780 beautiful setup for this type of campaign. 659 00:44:20,850 --> 00:44:26,820 Yeah, so this leads me to ask the question Where Where did 660 00:44:26,820 --> 00:44:35,160 nothing come from? The term if saw, we saw that a government 661 00:44:35,190 --> 00:44:39,510 agency was set up for this. We spoke about it before. I think 662 00:44:39,510 --> 00:44:42,750 it was the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs if I'm 663 00:44:42,750 --> 00:44:46,350 not mistaking the nudge division, the nurse division, 664 00:44:46,710 --> 00:44:53,430 but that was broken up. So we saw this in politics, I think 665 00:44:53,460 --> 00:44:56,850 even before we thought roll it out into the public realm, or it 666 00:44:56,850 --> 00:45:00,210 said the private industry realm and that's why I'm headed With 667 00:45:00,210 --> 00:45:06,600 this, this idea. We saw this. Oh, Barack Obama was called the 668 00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:09,630 first internet president. I want to say our social media 669 00:45:09,630 --> 00:45:12,150 president is that is that fair assessment. 670 00:45:12,180 --> 00:45:16,740 That was the setup to hit just in the last part before the 671 00:45:16,740 --> 00:45:20,400 election. What I remember is the extreme disappointment with the 672 00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:25,230 relaunch of whitehouse.gov. Everybody went, alright, this is 673 00:45:25,230 --> 00:45:27,240 the internet president, you know, where's my White House 674 00:45:27,240 --> 00:45:30,720 blog? You know, we're thinking this was going to be complete 675 00:45:30,720 --> 00:45:32,310 democracy was going to change. 676 00:45:33,450 --> 00:45:36,690 But I will say he was the first one to really have social media 677 00:45:36,690 --> 00:45:38,040 accounts, right. Absolutely. 678 00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:43,680 Absolutely. Yep. So at POTUS was was crud that account was 679 00:45:44,580 --> 00:45:46,950 created for Barack Obama. 680 00:45:47,609 --> 00:45:52,769 Right. I think the guys behind his team understood this 681 00:45:52,769 --> 00:45:58,949 mentality of tying himself to brands. Now we're about to come 682 00:45:58,949 --> 00:46:03,299 full circle here. But to the brands that had to have we're 683 00:46:03,299 --> 00:46:11,219 not new brand. It was nostalgia. It was people like Mahatma 684 00:46:11,219 --> 00:46:17,129 Gandhi, MLK, Cesar Chavez, anybody that you could relate to 685 00:46:17,129 --> 00:46:20,609 whatever gender you were trying to push. Cesar Chavez would be 686 00:46:20,609 --> 00:46:25,229 for immigration. MLK, Mahatma Gandhi would be for social 687 00:46:25,229 --> 00:46:26,489 justice issues. 688 00:46:26,700 --> 00:46:29,610 it right down there was hope and change. It was all part of the 689 00:46:29,610 --> 00:46:30,180 same thing. 690 00:46:31,230 --> 00:46:33,780 Right? And even in the clip, that's why I put the clip from 691 00:46:33,780 --> 00:46:38,370 trick baby. If you listen to what he said, you said you can't 692 00:46:38,370 --> 00:46:48,390 choke hoping to people. Good one. Right. So we're saying 693 00:46:48,780 --> 00:46:52,200 these people understand we put this guy and it's not exclusive 694 00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:56,100 to the black community. This is all people. It's all about what 695 00:46:56,100 --> 00:47:00,240 we tools we need to nudge who we need to nudge. So one of my 696 00:47:00,240 --> 00:47:03,660 favorite shows is Mad Men. I don't know if you've seen it 697 00:47:03,690 --> 00:47:08,400 tonight show about advertising in the 1960s and 70s. If you if 698 00:47:08,550 --> 00:47:11,280 the listeners haven't heard this show, and if you haven't seen 699 00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:15,900 the show, Adam, excellent show. Great writing. And it shows you 700 00:47:15,900 --> 00:47:19,140 the you know behind the curtains of advertising. 701 00:47:19,470 --> 00:47:22,500 It's a classic. It's it is indeed that good. 702 00:47:23,460 --> 00:47:27,120 And this clip, this is Donald Draper speaking on nostalgia. 703 00:47:28,530 --> 00:47:33,360 And Teddy told me the most important idea in advertising is 704 00:47:33,810 --> 00:47:38,970 new creates an itch. You simply put your product in there as a 705 00:47:38,970 --> 00:47:45,600 kind of calamine lotion. But he also talks about a deeper bond 706 00:47:45,780 --> 00:48:04,710 with the product. Nostalgia It's delicate, the potent. Teddy told 707 00:48:04,710 --> 00:48:09,900 me that in Greek, nostalgia literally means the pain from an 708 00:48:09,900 --> 00:48:20,160 old wound. It's a twinge in your heart. far more powerful than 709 00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:20,940 memory alone. 710 00:48:22,140 --> 00:48:26,580 Nice one. So nostalgie. And the key point I want to take away 711 00:48:26,580 --> 00:48:32,310 from that clip is it's more powerful than memory alone. So 712 00:48:32,310 --> 00:48:35,070 it's not about how you remember something. It's about how you 713 00:48:35,070 --> 00:48:41,340 felt about that. That leads me into Barack Obama using these 714 00:48:42,990 --> 00:48:46,860 images of people of the past Martin Luther King, Mahatma 715 00:48:46,860 --> 00:48:51,270 Gandhi, and she was Cesar Chavez. Let's listen to Brock 716 00:48:51,270 --> 00:48:54,210 Obama deeply influenced by Mahatma Gandhi. 717 00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:58,050 Obama himself is deeply influenced by both Martin Luther 718 00:48:58,050 --> 00:49:01,680 King and Gandhi. And when in India, he will be paying homage 719 00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:03,900 to the father of the nation at large caught. 720 00:49:05,700 --> 00:49:09,270 I might not be standing before you today as President of the 721 00:49:09,270 --> 00:49:13,860 United States. Had it not been for Gandhi in the message he 722 00:49:13,860 --> 00:49:15,750 shared and inspired with America. And 723 00:49:17,490 --> 00:49:20,430 it was this admiration that saw a special moment during Prime 724 00:49:20,430 --> 00:49:24,300 Minister Modi's us was it as Obama personally escorted Modi 725 00:49:24,450 --> 00:49:27,240 to the Martin Luther King Memorial. And now the Indian 726 00:49:27,240 --> 00:49:30,840 prime minister could reciprocate when the President pays homage 727 00:49:30,930 --> 00:49:31,830 at Raj cot. 728 00:49:35,100 --> 00:49:39,360 So what we see here is Brock Obama, and we're not picking on 729 00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:43,560 Obama. What we're doing is is showing a public figure aligning 730 00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:49,410 himself with another public figure that supposedly had a 731 00:49:51,030 --> 00:49:55,890 message or a perception about him about being peaceful, 732 00:49:56,820 --> 00:50:04,890 nonviolent resistance, so Social justice issue. So what I'm going 733 00:50:04,890 --> 00:50:09,690 here show is if you go and post a tweet with Mahatma Gandhi, on 734 00:50:09,690 --> 00:50:12,630 your tweet is going to be perceived a certain way correct 735 00:50:12,630 --> 00:50:18,330 or not? Yes. So what Obama did was align himself to these 736 00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:23,430 images the same way. And it creates a certain image about 737 00:50:23,430 --> 00:50:27,210 yourself the same way Popeyes did with aligning themselves, 738 00:50:27,450 --> 00:50:32,940 you know, with, with images, you know, with propaganda or public 739 00:50:32,940 --> 00:50:35,580 relations they were trying to push. Let's listen to Barack 740 00:50:35,580 --> 00:50:36,990 Obama to 741 00:50:37,170 --> 00:50:40,800 in 2009. One question by students, President Obama had 742 00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:44,550 said that his ideal dinner guest would have been Mahatma Gandhi, 743 00:50:44,670 --> 00:50:49,020 a person from whom he is hugely inspired. Even during his India 744 00:50:49,020 --> 00:50:53,430 visit, Obama spoke of the influence of Gandhi on his life. 745 00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:56,940 So when the American president comes to India, he has made sure 746 00:50:57,090 --> 00:51:00,600 that his itinerary includes paying homage here at the 747 00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:01,290 Rajghat 748 00:51:01,890 --> 00:51:03,540 yeah, great campaign. 749 00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:08,490 Right. So he aligned himself and Barack Obama is a very, very 750 00:51:08,490 --> 00:51:12,780 intelligent, knowledgeable person. He aligned himself with 751 00:51:12,780 --> 00:51:15,630 Mahatma Gandhi, which incident and parallel launch yourself 752 00:51:15,630 --> 00:51:19,530 with Martin Luther King Jr. But there's one problem. And this 753 00:51:19,530 --> 00:51:23,100 goes back to Donald Draper's point. It's not about your 754 00:51:23,100 --> 00:51:26,970 memory. It's about the field, that twinge in your heart that 755 00:51:26,970 --> 00:51:32,040 these images and these figures iconic figures bring up. But 756 00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:35,160 let's go and look at my was Mahatma Gandhi a racist. 757 00:51:35,460 --> 00:51:38,520 Even after his death, he continues to inspire civil 758 00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:42,150 rights movements across the world. But it was Gandhi's early 759 00:51:42,150 --> 00:51:44,790 writings in South Africa that have cast a shadow on his 760 00:51:44,790 --> 00:51:49,800 legacy. During his speech in Mumbai in 1896, he spoke of the 761 00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:53,070 savage half heathen natives who spend their lives in indolence 762 00:51:53,100 --> 00:51:56,850 and nakedness. He used the derogatory slur for blacks in 763 00:51:56,850 --> 00:52:01,650 South Africa Kaffir liberally in his writings, some accused 764 00:52:01,650 --> 00:52:04,380 Gandhi of believing in the superiority of the Aryan race, 765 00:52:04,650 --> 00:52:07,350 thinking that blacks were inferior to whites and Indians. 766 00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:10,980 In fact, one of the first legal battles done for twins South 767 00:52:10,980 --> 00:52:14,160 Africa, was to demand a separate entrance for Indians and post 768 00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:17,670 offices, so they were not classed as blacks. So why do 769 00:52:17,670 --> 00:52:21,690 many see Gandhi as an icon of justice? Critics of Gandhi say 770 00:52:21,690 --> 00:52:24,600 that his writings were a mistake in South Africa. contrast with 771 00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:27,090 what he wrote in his autobiography later on in life, 772 00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:31,950 he effectively tidied up some of his earlier views. But others 773 00:52:31,950 --> 00:52:34,710 counter this portrayal of Gandhi. They say that this 774 00:52:34,710 --> 00:52:37,710 prejudice was born on for Colonial context, and reinforced 775 00:52:37,710 --> 00:52:40,380 by the fact that at this stage, he had had little contact with 776 00:52:40,380 --> 00:52:43,860 Africans. And after serving as a volunteer to engines and news 777 00:52:43,860 --> 00:52:46,410 during the Boer War in South Africa, he realized the 778 00:52:46,410 --> 00:52:49,140 brutality of White's against blacks and some of his views 779 00:52:49,140 --> 00:52:49,680 changed. 780 00:52:52,980 --> 00:52:57,060 So hopefully we see what's happening here. It's not about 781 00:52:57,300 --> 00:53:01,560 what is true or not. It's all about the image Gandhi. It's 782 00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:06,900 about Ms. Gandhi. And then as a political figure, you align 783 00:53:06,900 --> 00:53:11,430 yourself with that image, the image and establish or overrides 784 00:53:11,430 --> 00:53:17,040 what is factually true. Once you align yourself to that, you get 785 00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:21,570 the machine going behind what the narrative is. And there you 786 00:53:21,570 --> 00:53:22,320 have it. 787 00:53:24,210 --> 00:53:28,410 Yeah, and you know, I was going to say, as an aside that Twitter 788 00:53:28,410 --> 00:53:31,980 is such a great example of this. But this is also kind of what 789 00:53:31,980 --> 00:53:35,610 you're seeing with the so called television news networks. They 790 00:53:35,610 --> 00:53:39,030 know one thing that the money that these candidates raise is 791 00:53:39,030 --> 00:53:42,150 coming to them that they don't know exactly how it's going to 792 00:53:42,150 --> 00:53:45,930 be divvied up. And they don't know because there is a spread 793 00:53:45,930 --> 00:53:52,560 over digital now. They, they are already acting like a beef 794 00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:56,880 network continuously I might add, to attract the people they 795 00:53:56,880 --> 00:54:02,700 want, who will supplement that with with the television 796 00:54:02,700 --> 00:54:07,800 equivalent of display of banners, commercials, but who 797 00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:11,490 knows what else they I'm sure they have all kinds of cool 798 00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:15,660 native advertising deals that you can set up with them and 799 00:54:15,660 --> 00:54:21,150 craft and create and under the guise of hey, it's it's a it's 800 00:54:21,150 --> 00:54:24,300 official word. Here's a news network which we all know it's 801 00:54:24,300 --> 00:54:24,720 not. 802 00:54:25,740 --> 00:54:28,860 And the point I wanted to highlight in this is it's not 803 00:54:28,860 --> 00:54:35,130 that Obama didn't know about Gandhi's past. He had he had to 804 00:54:35,130 --> 00:54:39,090 no this is this is not like a stuff that was just no secret 805 00:54:39,090 --> 00:54:45,180 now, right? This is no secret. Even I'm president of South 806 00:54:45,180 --> 00:54:48,570 Africa, Nelson Mandela knew about this and when he was 807 00:54:48,570 --> 00:54:51,720 alive, and you know, he kind of said we got to look past that he 808 00:54:51,720 --> 00:54:54,990 was a victim. I mean, a product of his times that was that was 809 00:54:55,410 --> 00:54:58,200 excuses like kind of Pooh poohing it. What I'm saying is 810 00:54:58,200 --> 00:55:03,570 somebody in that room And this is just what I allege, says you 811 00:55:03,570 --> 00:55:10,680 know what? His image is greater than what is fact? Yep, that's 812 00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:14,610 what they said. And then how it also works to go back into what 813 00:55:14,610 --> 00:55:18,780 we talked about with Chick fil A Popeyes when somebody comes out 814 00:55:18,780 --> 00:55:23,310 says, but Gandhi was racist. What's the natural reflex? Are 815 00:55:23,310 --> 00:55:26,880 you crazy? You know, what do you mean? 816 00:55:27,450 --> 00:55:30,690 It goes it goes both ways. You're right. Yeah. Benefit for 817 00:55:30,690 --> 00:55:32,910 everybody. Yeah. Yeah. 818 00:55:33,450 --> 00:55:36,480 You know, and then it makes you bigger. And for the people not 819 00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:38,910 in the know, they're like, No, Gandhi MLK, you know, saying 820 00:55:38,910 --> 00:55:41,790 that's the association. Yeah. How can he be racist? You know, 821 00:55:41,820 --> 00:55:47,280 Gandhi and Nelson Mandela. So how could he be racist? And what 822 00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:53,550 it does is what we always talked about before, is the act the 823 00:55:53,550 --> 00:55:58,080 politics, they need a good fight. That's what we were 824 00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:01,560 talking about before with Kamala Harris and Joe Biden, you need 825 00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:06,210 to raise his beef. They need to beef beef sales. No one nobody 826 00:56:06,210 --> 00:56:12,030 wants to see a lopsided contest. It's not good. You cut the 827 00:56:12,030 --> 00:56:14,430 football game off at halftime if there's a blowout. 828 00:56:15,210 --> 00:56:17,280 It's exactly right. Yeah, 829 00:56:17,430 --> 00:56:22,740 this is terrible. Um, but they create these beeps. 830 00:56:24,060 --> 00:56:29,790 And let me just say, the classic beef is the so called pole. This 831 00:56:29,790 --> 00:56:34,230 is the classic mainstream trick of the beef. Oh, look how close 832 00:56:34,230 --> 00:56:34,860 they are. 833 00:56:36,030 --> 00:56:39,840 Remember, remember the conversation we had about Kamala 834 00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:44,130 Harris? And I'll tell you it got me because the post debate polls 835 00:56:44,130 --> 00:56:48,810 said she's climbing in the polls got a jump. She got a bomb, a 836 00:56:48,810 --> 00:56:50,850 bomb. That was what that was. That was the turn. I'm like 837 00:56:50,850 --> 00:56:54,990 what? Like, Oh, hold on. Oh, she's climbing. I got nervous. 838 00:56:55,230 --> 00:56:58,110 And notice they're not talking about the polls now because 839 00:56:58,110 --> 00:57:02,820 she's under 10%. That's right. It's bad. It's bad for business 840 00:57:02,820 --> 00:57:06,990 that we see. Just for the sports fans out there. That's why they 841 00:57:06,990 --> 00:57:09,990 had to get rid of the Golden State Warriors. That's why they 842 00:57:09,990 --> 00:57:15,630 hate really hate dynasties and sports. They need what is called 843 00:57:15,630 --> 00:57:24,570 parity. And this new form of advertising, I believe, creates 844 00:57:24,570 --> 00:57:29,070 parity, not only in the political sector, but also the 845 00:57:29,070 --> 00:57:34,350 public sector because what the social media companies will do 846 00:57:34,350 --> 00:57:37,980 is back the underdog is good to back the underdog. I'm sure. 847 00:57:39,030 --> 00:57:44,430 This is just Just what I think. I have no proof of it. I'm sure 848 00:57:44,430 --> 00:57:49,380 Twitter probably gave Popeyes a better rate than they were to 849 00:57:49,380 --> 00:57:52,320 Chick fil A because guess what? Now Chipotle has to step their 850 00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:55,380 advertising up? Yep. Before it's Chick fil A was the big boss 851 00:57:55,380 --> 00:57:58,290 applesauce of the industry. And like we don't have to advertise. 852 00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:01,230 We only open six days a week, what are you talking about? But 853 00:58:01,230 --> 00:58:02,880 when you create the competitor, 854 00:58:02,910 --> 00:58:04,770 yeah, then you're in you're in the game. 855 00:58:05,490 --> 00:58:09,150 You have to be now they have to up their buys. You know, we 856 00:58:09,150 --> 00:58:12,810 used to do a version of this. I worked at while many radio 857 00:58:12,810 --> 00:58:18,180 stations but the most famous one was Z 100 in New York. And they 858 00:58:18,180 --> 00:58:21,750 came in, they weren't even in New York, they were New Jersey 859 00:58:21,750 --> 00:58:24,480 at the top of the hour, they would say that broadcasting live 860 00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:30,750 across New York majority. It's a really softly but they went from 861 00:58:30,750 --> 00:58:34,350 worst to first. And it was it was in a way a social media 862 00:58:34,350 --> 00:58:37,020 context where there was a way the underdog were kicking those 863 00:58:37,020 --> 00:58:40,500 acids over there, those guys in the fancy towers or wherever. 864 00:58:40,740 --> 00:58:45,150 And then we add bumper stickers, and honk your horn for z 100. 865 00:58:45,150 --> 00:58:49,650 And you know that you activated there's a word we'd like to use 866 00:58:49,650 --> 00:58:53,910 you activated your listeners to go and promote your station and 867 00:58:53,970 --> 00:58:58,080 Z 100 has been well, they're not no longer number one just for 868 00:58:58,140 --> 00:59:00,810 changing marketplace, but they were number one for decades. 869 00:59:02,040 --> 00:59:07,740 And we've seen this in the faux conspiracy community. Unique 870 00:59:07,770 --> 00:59:11,640 they use the elite as the competition to generate you 871 00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:16,560 know, the listener base, you know, all this this way they 872 00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:22,080 Hey, they don't really give you an answer to who they is. But 873 00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:27,330 this is how it works. So just another example of how Obama and 874 00:59:27,330 --> 00:59:30,600 the reason why I'm using Obama is because he everyone, everyone 875 00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:34,320 understands this example. It's great. He was the first social 876 00:59:34,320 --> 00:59:39,000 media brand to brand Obama, the brand Obama Yeah, first social 877 00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:44,670 media president and this is him on Cesar Chavez. 878 00:59:45,419 --> 00:59:57,689 And so today we celebrate Cesar Chavez. Cesar would be the first 879 00:59:57,689 --> 01:00:01,859 to say that this is not a monument to one man In. The 880 01:00:01,859 --> 01:00:05,189 movement he helped to lead was sustained by a generation of 881 01:00:05,189 --> 01:00:10,319 organizers who stood up and spoke out and urged others to do 882 01:00:10,319 --> 01:00:14,339 the same, including the Great Dolores Huerta, who is here 883 01:00:14,339 --> 01:00:14,759 today 884 01:00:20,970 --> 01:00:24,390 drew strength from Americans of every race and every background 885 01:00:24,390 --> 01:00:27,810 who marched and boycotted together on behalf of La Causa. 886 01:00:29,460 --> 01:00:33,690 And it was always inspired by the farmworkers themselves, some 887 01:00:33,690 --> 01:00:39,480 of whom are with us. This place belongs to you too. But the 888 01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:42,540 truth is we would not be here if it weren't for season. 889 01:00:43,170 --> 01:00:47,730 You know, I really miss him. I used to love cutting up his his 890 01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:52,260 sound bites and stuff. It was great order. Fantastic. Great, 891 01:00:52,260 --> 01:00:52,530 great 892 01:00:52,530 --> 01:00:58,860 pitch me that yes. Right. So this man Ah, so see she Cesar 893 01:00:58,860 --> 01:01:03,090 Chavez. Do you have any background or anything? Or what 894 01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:07,950 what what is the use to push what was the word frontman for 895 01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:14,370 for the workers for organized labor to bust up evil bosses? 896 01:01:16,560 --> 01:01:20,760 And what is the modern day use for Cesar Chavez? 897 01:01:21,390 --> 01:01:28,500 The name of the road in here in Austin? He looks good on T 898 01:01:28,500 --> 01:01:32,640 shirts. Now. I guess he would be a be considered the resistance, 899 01:01:33,180 --> 01:01:37,200 the resistance and he's used as the face for illegal 900 01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:43,020 immigration. Correct? Yes. Hmm. Interesting. Funny how that 901 01:01:43,020 --> 01:01:47,070 works. Mo. Funny how that works. Click 15 902 01:01:47,580 --> 01:01:50,190 We maintain every culture is different. It's always been 903 01:01:50,190 --> 01:01:52,620 different. This is why every culture and farmworkers whenever 904 01:01:52,620 --> 01:01:56,880 organized before, as long as we have a poor country bordering 905 01:01:56,880 --> 01:02:00,600 California, is gonna be ready for the wind strikes. Strikes 906 01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:06,060 are one, normally by the unions. With an employer, this is a case 907 01:02:06,060 --> 01:02:09,240 right now one of the strikes that we have with the with the 908 01:02:09,240 --> 01:02:13,110 beaut gas and oil company where we've closed them down, that 909 01:02:13,110 --> 01:02:16,530 have been unable to get strikebreakers or have gotten 910 01:02:16,530 --> 01:02:21,090 very few. And then all of a sudden yesterday morning. They 911 01:02:21,090 --> 01:02:25,110 brought into her 20 wetbacks. They started the illegals from 912 01:02:25,110 --> 01:02:25,530 Mexico. 913 01:02:27,420 --> 01:02:30,300 I don't know much I've only been in Texas for nine years. But I 914 01:02:30,300 --> 01:02:34,350 guarantee you using the term wetbacks is not a good idea. 915 01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:39,150 But why would you use him for the face of illegal immigration, 916 01:02:39,180 --> 01:02:43,200 he was clearly against illegal immigration. He says if you 917 01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:49,170 border loans you border on a poor country like Mexico. It's 918 01:02:49,170 --> 01:02:51,960 gonna be impossible for union workers to have, you know, form 919 01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:56,640 unions because you basically have these union busters. And he 920 01:02:56,640 --> 01:03:00,870 used them to call them a did not derogatory name, and also use 921 01:03:00,870 --> 01:03:06,330 the term illegals. So how is it? Once again, Obama was a smart 922 01:03:06,330 --> 01:03:09,420 person, his team is full of smart people, those people in 923 01:03:09,420 --> 01:03:13,890 that crowd cheering for him. Had to know where Cesar Chavez if 924 01:03:13,890 --> 01:03:17,190 you if you're about the cause, well, this is he said the law 925 01:03:17,190 --> 01:03:18,780 calls is what he called it right? Which is, 926 01:03:19,680 --> 01:03:26,250 yep. Well, it's deeply rooted in nostalgia feeling muscle memory, 927 01:03:26,250 --> 01:03:31,290 training, imagery, memes, all these things play into it. And 928 01:03:32,670 --> 01:03:36,240 you know, Chavez specifically has been used throughout the 929 01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:42,090 years in so many different movements. That, I guess with 930 01:03:42,180 --> 01:03:48,000 poor education, people just don't think about it. And they 931 01:03:48,030 --> 01:03:51,570 glom on to the feeling of okay, I feel good about this guy 932 01:03:51,570 --> 01:03:53,760 following this, this image. 933 01:03:54,540 --> 01:03:58,980 But there has to be a calculation there. I mean, when 934 01:03:58,980 --> 01:04:03,930 you're doing vetting of power for candidates, when you're 935 01:04:03,930 --> 01:04:09,270 doing vetting for memes, there has to be a pro and a con on it, 936 01:04:09,270 --> 01:04:12,720 you know, or opposition to say, well, that could be used this 937 01:04:12,720 --> 01:04:15,690 way. Don't use that term, because that could be perceived 938 01:04:15,720 --> 01:04:20,430 this way. I'm just interested about what in that conversation 939 01:04:20,460 --> 01:04:27,120 in that room. Somebody had to know who Gandhi really was, who 940 01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:32,040 Cesar Chavez really was, and for them to continue and go with it. 941 01:04:33,210 --> 01:04:33,600 Well, 942 01:04:33,630 --> 01:04:36,960 you know, yes, again, it comes back to something we talked 943 01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:40,530 about initially, it's testing and it's not that hard to do. I 944 01:04:40,530 --> 01:04:42,930 mean, it is done every single day. You can see it on YouTube, 945 01:04:42,930 --> 01:04:46,710 you know, college campus, reform, whatever it's called, 946 01:04:47,010 --> 01:04:50,580 where they ask people questions, and they usually have a bogus 947 01:04:50,580 --> 01:04:54,210 question, or something that's obviously dumb, and they all 948 01:04:54,210 --> 01:04:58,680 fall for it. That's just who human beings are. We're shallow 949 01:04:58,710 --> 01:05:03,600 there and it of overtime, something's been such as image 950 01:05:03,600 --> 01:05:08,310 Cesar Chavez has been moved into resistance leader, you know 951 01:05:08,310 --> 01:05:12,030 striving for freedom, these kinds of feelings. Once you 952 01:05:12,030 --> 01:05:15,990 identify, it's there, however it got there, then you can use it 953 01:05:16,050 --> 01:05:19,050 starting that I think is much harder now, but I don't think 954 01:05:19,050 --> 01:05:24,420 today, you could use image Obama for a candidate, maybe in 40 955 01:05:24,420 --> 01:05:26,250 years from now, it could be used again. 956 01:05:27,990 --> 01:05:31,620 I have a different take on that. And you know, I may be wrong, 957 01:05:31,950 --> 01:05:40,140 but I think they knew their pitch man was so good that the 958 01:05:40,140 --> 01:05:44,910 people will want to believe what he was saying. Even if the facts 959 01:05:44,910 --> 01:05:48,030 came up, even even it because the facts always come up in the 960 01:05:48,030 --> 01:05:52,830 social media. Sorry, sir. Circle, how somebody's always 961 01:05:52,830 --> 01:05:56,640 gonna have a link or reply saying, hey, what about this? 962 01:05:56,670 --> 01:05:59,310 Right, you know, you know, saying 963 01:05:59,940 --> 01:06:04,230 more, more so today, more so today. This when Obama came into 964 01:06:04,230 --> 01:06:07,590 office 2008 Twitter had really only been around for a year or 965 01:06:07,590 --> 01:06:11,820 two, Ashton Kutcher was the first million follower person it 966 01:06:11,820 --> 01:06:17,670 was very immature at the time. I feel that and the algos also 967 01:06:17,670 --> 01:06:20,730 weren't quite as sophisticated, if at all. 968 01:06:21,780 --> 01:06:22,680 That's a fair point. 969 01:06:23,100 --> 01:06:26,880 So it's it's it's become easier in some regards today and 970 01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:33,810 harder. I think the way I look at it is I think Obama was the 971 01:06:33,810 --> 01:06:41,340 influencer in chief agreed. Totally agree. You're running, 972 01:06:41,370 --> 01:06:44,370 you're running. You're running on your, your, your brand, what 973 01:06:44,370 --> 01:06:49,860 you're running on literally hope and change, not economics, jobs, 974 01:06:49,890 --> 01:06:52,440 you know, any of the traditional things. And man, we were ready 975 01:06:52,440 --> 01:06:56,820 for it. That's another thing. We were ready for that? 976 01:06:57,480 --> 01:07:00,840 And then he could clean up and say, Nah, God, he's cool, man, 977 01:07:00,840 --> 01:07:06,330 when you talk about, you know, I mean, yeah, Nah, man. Nah. So 978 01:07:06,330 --> 01:07:13,230 what I'm just going to say is, I think this came before what 979 01:07:13,230 --> 01:07:19,410 we're seeing now, in the private sector, of what we're seeing 980 01:07:19,440 --> 01:07:24,630 with the Popeyes versus Chick fil A, they understand that we 981 01:07:24,630 --> 01:07:30,480 can have people with a have conversation with taboo, taboo 982 01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:36,750 topics, and people's need to be part of the conversation to be 983 01:07:36,750 --> 01:07:41,160 part of following something is so strong. They all go over 984 01:07:41,160 --> 01:07:43,680 that. That point? Well, let 985 01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:48,930 me stop you right there. Millions of black Americans 986 01:07:49,260 --> 01:07:53,490 looked over the point that Barack Obama was not an African 987 01:07:53,490 --> 01:08:01,650 American. And took it and took it. And as you've explained 988 01:08:01,650 --> 01:08:06,780 previously, second term will do stuff for us took it freely 989 01:08:06,810 --> 01:08:07,950 agreed with it. 990 01:08:09,450 --> 01:08:14,520 Right. And then what well, he was backed by his wife. 991 01:08:17,190 --> 01:08:20,940 Image Image. Yes, exactly. Current Association. exactly 992 01:08:20,940 --> 01:08:24,030 know the way Oprah has Steadman, you know, image? 993 01:08:24,210 --> 01:08:28,620 Yes, it's all about association. So it's funny that you bring 994 01:08:28,620 --> 01:08:33,330 them up. And we're gonna get into this. The final clip. 995 01:08:34,830 --> 01:08:37,050 American factories, Obama's, 996 01:08:37,140 --> 01:08:41,070 you guys could do whatever you want. Why did you decide to do 997 01:08:41,070 --> 01:08:41,670 what you're doing 998 01:08:41,700 --> 01:08:45,600 one way of looking at what we've both been doing for the last 20 999 01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:51,480 years, maybe most of our careers once we left law, it was to tell 1000 01:08:51,480 --> 01:08:54,360 stories. If you want to be in relationships with people and 1001 01:08:54,360 --> 01:08:57,030 connect with them and work together with them. You have 1002 01:08:57,030 --> 01:08:58,800 to know their story. You have to know them. 1003 01:08:59,040 --> 01:09:03,570 Yeah, this is the big $65 million Netflix deal. 1004 01:09:04,290 --> 01:09:07,140 But did you catch them? I mean, what did you take away from that 1005 01:09:07,140 --> 01:09:08,280 clip? I don't want to ruin it. 1006 01:09:08,430 --> 01:09:12,450 They're going to tell stories. And it sounded to me like they 1007 01:09:12,450 --> 01:09:15,180 were going to tell stories about people whose stories they 1008 01:09:15,180 --> 01:09:18,990 understood, which to me would mean black Americans, and that's 1009 01:09:18,990 --> 01:09:20,310 who they're going to be targeting. 1010 01:09:21,690 --> 01:09:27,660 One before I tell you what, what you missed. It's funny that he 1011 01:09:27,690 --> 01:09:30,990 his first major project on the Netflix deal that you referenced 1012 01:09:30,990 --> 01:09:39,660 the $65 million deal was talking about how the Chinese industry 1013 01:09:39,690 --> 01:09:44,310 practices as affecting a middle America, which That in itself is 1014 01:09:44,310 --> 01:09:44,730 just 1015 01:09:45,330 --> 01:09:50,130 really well I didn't know that seeing as he was such a part of 1016 01:09:50,130 --> 01:09:53,760 shipping everything over to China. Interesting. He's kind of 1017 01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:55,140 going against the grain now. 1018 01:09:55,950 --> 01:10:00,240 That and then if you say who will make a movie about me Rural 1019 01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:04,320 America being gutted. It wouldn't be Obama. No, because 1020 01:10:04,320 --> 01:10:07,890 that might be his legacy. That will be his legacy. And you had 1021 01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:11,670 eight years and you didn't do anything. And really, Trump is 1022 01:10:11,670 --> 01:10:15,810 the one that is been anti China, if you want to say that. I mean, 1023 01:10:15,900 --> 01:10:18,450 that's not really a fair assessment what he is, but he'd 1024 01:10:18,450 --> 01:10:21,750 been pro America and putting strong 1025 01:10:23,130 --> 01:10:26,370 books at trumpets. Trump has been anti China vocally with the 1026 01:10:26,370 --> 01:10:29,280 same message since the late 80s. 1027 01:10:29,400 --> 01:10:33,420 Yes, I agree with that. So that first that was one thing that 1028 01:10:33,420 --> 01:10:37,830 caught me on the surface of wow, you making a movie about this? 1029 01:10:37,920 --> 01:10:38,310 Oh, shoot 1030 01:10:38,310 --> 01:10:40,920 mechanic? Can I listen to the clip? Again, before you reveal 1031 01:10:40,920 --> 01:10:44,460 it? I want to see if I catch it this time. Okay. You guys could 1032 01:10:44,460 --> 01:10:47,670 do whatever you want. Why did you decide to do what you're 1033 01:10:47,670 --> 01:10:47,970 doing 1034 01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:51,900 one way of looking at what we've both been doing for the last 20 1035 01:10:51,900 --> 01:10:54,450 years, maybe most of our career viewers 1036 01:10:54,450 --> 01:10:56,490 once we left law, it 1037 01:10:56,520 --> 01:11:00,240 was to tell stories. If you want to be in relationships with 1038 01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:03,000 people and connect with them and work together with them. 1039 01:11:03,030 --> 01:11:05,100 You have to know their story. You have to know them. 1040 01:11:06,840 --> 01:11:07,650 Tell stories, 1041 01:11:09,120 --> 01:11:12,450 tell stories. We tell stories. 1042 01:11:13,290 --> 01:11:15,870 Telling stories. For the last 20 years 1043 01:11:15,900 --> 01:11:19,830 I've been I've been telling fables and telling stories, 1044 01:11:19,860 --> 01:11:23,190 fables on the turntable some shit like that, yes, of course, 1045 01:11:23,220 --> 01:11:24,060 fables, 1046 01:11:24,450 --> 01:11:29,070 to connect with the people. It doesn't matter about what my 1047 01:11:29,070 --> 01:11:33,150 policies are, it doesn't matter about who supports us, it 1048 01:11:33,150 --> 01:11:38,010 doesn't matter about anything. If you could tell a great story, 1049 01:11:39,060 --> 01:11:42,690 and connect with the person, you can sell them anything. 1050 01:11:42,719 --> 01:11:49,049 And my wife has been a marketer and communications expert all of 1051 01:11:49,049 --> 01:11:53,519 her career. And this is exactly her words, say if you can tell a 1052 01:11:53,519 --> 01:11:57,059 story you can get people to buy in and believe. And that's 1053 01:11:57,089 --> 01:12:00,779 that's what marketers do all day long tell stories, it doesn't 1054 01:12:00,779 --> 01:12:04,529 necessarily mean that you're giving him the truth, or 1055 01:12:04,529 --> 01:12:09,569 educating them. You're telling a story to communicate an idea 1056 01:12:09,599 --> 01:12:10,829 true, false or indifferent. 1057 01:12:11,549 --> 01:12:15,809 What it does is it lowers that wall down. And just to bring 1058 01:12:15,809 --> 01:12:21,419 this full circle, where we're at. Once you lower that wall 1059 01:12:21,419 --> 01:12:26,489 down of No, when people try to say You sound as natural, they 1060 01:12:26,489 --> 01:12:29,369 have a barrier there. Because it's like you're trying to 1061 01:12:29,369 --> 01:12:32,579 separate me from my money, which your money is your power, right? 1062 01:12:32,669 --> 01:12:37,139 So you're trying to separate with me, once you are able to 1063 01:12:37,139 --> 01:12:40,979 lower that wall down, and that's the whole theory of this whole 1064 01:12:41,309 --> 01:12:46,889 episode. They use the useful, useful ADA to lower that barrier 1065 01:12:46,889 --> 01:12:53,279 down. The influencer has that barrier there. The pitch man has 1066 01:12:53,279 --> 01:12:55,859 that barrier there. The camera TV commercial has that barrier 1067 01:12:55,859 --> 01:13:01,379 there. Now they had a new tool, and that's the useful ad online. 1068 01:13:01,919 --> 01:13:07,679 That barrier is not naturally there. And you you believe them? 1069 01:13:08,309 --> 01:13:12,299 You know when you buy a sandwich saying, Hmm, that was good. He's 1070 01:13:12,299 --> 01:13:17,639 not getting paid by Popeyes. It must be really good. You know, 1071 01:13:17,699 --> 01:13:22,439 and then when you fast forward and look at Obama, what'd he 1072 01:13:22,439 --> 01:13:25,709 say? We've been telling stories. He gets up there gives you a 1073 01:13:25,709 --> 01:13:31,169 great, wonderful story. You lower that barrier down. Now we 1074 01:13:31,169 --> 01:13:35,009 can say the pitch. It doesn't matter about who you know what 1075 01:13:35,009 --> 01:13:37,799 my policies are. It doesn't matter, helping change how you 1076 01:13:37,799 --> 01:13:38,969 quantify that you can't? 1077 01:13:40,380 --> 01:13:43,020 Well, you know who else is a good storyteller on today's 1078 01:13:43,410 --> 01:13:47,640 stage? Of course, of course. Kamala Harris is fantastic 1079 01:13:47,640 --> 01:13:48,420 storyteller. 1080 01:13:50,580 --> 01:13:55,560 And you know who else is Mr. Donald Trump? Oh, he's that's 1081 01:13:55,560 --> 01:13:58,590 why he can go for hour and a half. It's 1082 01:13:58,920 --> 01:14:02,460 as an elephant. He doesn't know how to nudge subtly but yeah, he 1083 01:14:02,460 --> 01:14:06,150 can. That's right. And he's got your nostalgia make America 1084 01:14:06,150 --> 01:14:09,510 great. Again, literally calling back to nostalgic times. 1085 01:14:09,720 --> 01:14:17,010 Although misinterpreted by many. Yeah, great storytellers. That's 1086 01:14:17,010 --> 01:14:19,920 yeah, that's, that's what you need. That's interesting, which 1087 01:14:20,040 --> 01:14:25,200 it's interesting about Trump, because he truly is the first 1088 01:14:25,200 --> 01:14:32,940 internet president, Barack Obama was incapable of the 1089 01:14:32,940 --> 01:14:37,080 interpersonal type of communication style or dialogue 1090 01:14:37,080 --> 01:14:41,520 even that is necessary to make social media work. Now it was 1091 01:14:41,550 --> 01:14:45,210 there were no examples. It was early to I don't think he really 1092 01:14:45,720 --> 01:14:48,090 no, there was no one who really understood how that work at the 1093 01:14:48,090 --> 01:14:54,690 time. And the basing on old metrics. Trump figured I think 1094 01:14:54,690 --> 01:14:58,260 he's already always known this make a lot of noise. Big noise, 1095 01:14:58,260 --> 01:15:01,800 big, big any No, and he's very good. Scott Adams, the Dilbert 1096 01:15:01,800 --> 01:15:06,690 cartoonist, wrote a book about persuasion and how Trump was 1097 01:15:06,750 --> 01:15:10,440 going to win. And he predicted it based on Trump's persuasion 1098 01:15:10,440 --> 01:15:12,900 techniques, which goes right back to the beginning of this 1099 01:15:12,900 --> 01:15:14,880 program. The Edward Bernays. 1100 01:15:16,289 --> 01:15:22,589 Yes, and for lack of a better term, Chuck is the useful idiot 1101 01:15:22,619 --> 01:15:26,069 in this situation. The reason why I say that is not in the how 1102 01:15:26,069 --> 01:15:31,109 that sound. But he's had a pain on everything. So he doesn't 1103 01:15:31,109 --> 01:15:36,809 appear to be an influencer. It's natural. When he says something 1104 01:15:37,349 --> 01:15:40,859 is naturally received, because he has opinion on everything. So 1105 01:15:40,889 --> 01:15:45,479 he's perceived the same way. As the guy that Popeyes we used to 1106 01:15:45,479 --> 01:15:46,799 say, Oh, this guy, you know, 1107 01:15:48,030 --> 01:15:50,940 just as another blogger, he's just a Twitter guy with a lot of 1108 01:15:50,940 --> 01:15:51,810 followers. Right? Yeah. 1109 01:15:51,840 --> 01:15:54,540 He's not trying to say you suck. I mean, he's not that's not 1110 01:15:54,540 --> 01:15:58,170 would be his role. He says what he says and what he feels, that 1111 01:15:58,170 --> 01:16:01,470 will be the perception. That's Brock. Obama goes to tweet. 1112 01:16:01,500 --> 01:16:02,850 Yeah, it's an agenda base. 1113 01:16:03,480 --> 01:16:07,020 Yes. With with bullet point. Right. Yeah. So 1114 01:16:07,980 --> 01:16:12,300 I mean, that we're seeing, it's amazing how we've seen these. Is 1115 01:16:12,300 --> 01:16:15,360 it the dog, the dog wagging the tail of the tail wagging the 1116 01:16:15,360 --> 01:16:15,870 dog? 1117 01:16:16,800 --> 01:16:20,220 Well, you made another great point. It works both ways. It 1118 01:16:20,220 --> 01:16:24,630 benefits both sides, just like Obama benefited Gandhi retros 1119 01:16:24,660 --> 01:16:25,620 retroactively? 1120 01:16:27,660 --> 01:16:30,870 Well, the question I asked is, are the advertisers looking back 1121 01:16:30,870 --> 01:16:33,840 and looking at studying Trump like, how was he so successful? 1122 01:16:36,090 --> 01:16:39,870 Yeah, he doesn't come across as an influencer, that the 1123 01:16:39,870 --> 01:16:43,020 conversation may have. I don't know. I don't have more of a 1124 01:16:43,020 --> 01:16:43,980 question. But well, I 1125 01:16:43,980 --> 01:16:48,990 think I think generally accepted is that it was the beef. It was 1126 01:16:48,990 --> 01:16:53,280 an ongoing beef situation. And here came the under hurricane 1127 01:16:53,280 --> 01:16:58,170 Popeyes of politics. Donald Trump lumbering along and he 1128 01:16:58,170 --> 01:17:02,280 goes, Hey, you guys suck your chicken sandwich. No, good. No, 1129 01:17:02,310 --> 01:17:06,270 it's bad. It's sad. And then that it turned into a media 1130 01:17:06,270 --> 01:17:09,720 frenzy. And it was Donald Trump 24/7 throughout the entire 1131 01:17:09,720 --> 01:17:14,430 election cycle. And he was the Popeye's of that election. 1132 01:17:14,910 --> 01:17:21,180 Sleepy Joe Pocahontas. Low Energy jab. I mean, he was. 1133 01:17:23,400 --> 01:17:26,070 Well, he had he had the branding down to that's all part of the, 1134 01:17:26,370 --> 01:17:29,190 of the persuasion game. And that's, that's the clap back. 1135 01:17:29,190 --> 01:17:31,140 That's a slap down whatever you want to call it. 1136 01:17:31,170 --> 01:17:35,370 That was the point I'm making that he lacks himself on to Jeb 1137 01:17:35,370 --> 01:17:39,480 Bush, if Jeb Bush would have brushed him off and paid him no 1138 01:17:39,480 --> 01:17:44,850 attention. He can't win. Right. But he made that attack so 1139 01:17:44,850 --> 01:17:48,300 potent, that you have to reply back. And when you've done that, 1140 01:17:48,300 --> 01:17:52,320 you brought him to your level and then in they then you don't 1141 01:17:52,320 --> 01:17:53,370 have the leverage anymore. 1142 01:17:54,210 --> 01:17:58,170 Yeah, so here's the challenge. Here's the challenge for 1143 01:17:58,170 --> 01:18:01,230 companies like Twitter. And I agree, that's obviously that's 1144 01:18:01,230 --> 01:18:04,110 where I mean, we're going to see almost $2 billion of digital 1145 01:18:04,110 --> 01:18:08,970 advertising for this entire election, 6.8 billion in total, 1146 01:18:09,510 --> 01:18:13,620 of which just under 3 billion goes to television, and there's 1147 01:18:13,620 --> 01:18:17,460 a piece to radio and print etc. But still almost 2 billion for 1148 01:18:17,460 --> 01:18:21,480 for digital. They've got to keep that in in check. They got to 1149 01:18:21,480 --> 01:18:24,630 keep it in track if they're using these types of campaigns. 1150 01:18:24,630 --> 01:18:27,300 And, and I cannot thank you enough for bringing this 1151 01:18:27,300 --> 01:18:30,780 particular one to my attention. Moreover, because of the 1152 01:18:30,780 --> 01:18:33,600 sensitivity of the topic, which I'd still like to explore how 1153 01:18:33,600 --> 01:18:38,730 that's working out, they have to control the messaging. And I 1154 01:18:38,760 --> 01:18:44,340 envision them having a dashboard with dials, that artificially 1155 01:18:44,340 --> 01:18:48,720 creates what Donald Trump was able to do by himself amazingly, 1156 01:18:48,960 --> 01:18:52,560 but you dial it up a little bit, bring some some pro people in 1157 01:18:52,590 --> 01:18:56,310 it, sprinkle in a little bit of contrast, dial it back a bit, 1158 01:18:56,310 --> 01:18:59,670 it's moving too far, the algorithms they use and these 1159 01:18:59,670 --> 01:19:03,030 are just levers it's literally like a like a mixing board. They 1160 01:19:03,030 --> 01:19:06,330 can mix that they can mix in these levels that you're seeing 1161 01:19:06,330 --> 01:19:10,800 in your feed is very powerful stuff and very, very hidden and 1162 01:19:10,800 --> 01:19:13,020 tricky and kind of not nice. 1163 01:19:14,070 --> 01:19:18,210 But you're from the advertising world. And I would want to say 1164 01:19:18,210 --> 01:19:26,130 this one thing you can't create a good salesman no matter what 1165 01:19:26,190 --> 01:19:29,370 you can't create a good sales so that's the that's the one thing 1166 01:19:29,370 --> 01:19:38,640 is that you can't manufacture so they are 1167 01:19:38,670 --> 01:19:44,940 in fact it's funny you say that every company I have run or 1168 01:19:44,940 --> 01:19:51,690 owned the sales team. Not the same, but we're often like 1169 01:19:51,690 --> 01:19:58,650 Donald Trump. It's the kind of person and they can these the 1170 01:19:58,650 --> 01:20:01,080 great sales people and sell almost anything 1171 01:20:03,540 --> 01:20:07,680 is costly, authentic, not authentic, positive sense of the 1172 01:20:07,680 --> 01:20:12,300 word but without any positive or negative. There's this 1173 01:20:12,330 --> 01:20:17,760 authentic. And that goal just to close this out. If going back to 1174 01:20:17,760 --> 01:20:23,040 the show Mad Men, Donald Draper was that kind of person. He 1175 01:20:23,040 --> 01:20:28,110 would be all out and out all night whoring drinking asleep in 1176 01:20:28,110 --> 01:20:32,130 his office. And they may go wake him up. You're saying he shave. 1177 01:20:32,520 --> 01:20:33,720 Welcome to the royal give your 1178 01:20:34,290 --> 01:20:41,130 speech page on bam. Yeah, you're right. Yeah, he was the best 1179 01:20:41,730 --> 01:20:47,220 authentic in his own way. Absolutely. So is the American 1180 01:20:47,250 --> 01:20:50,430 factory is that the name of the production company? The Obamas 1181 01:20:50,430 --> 01:20:50,790 have 1182 01:20:51,150 --> 01:20:54,660 noticed the name of their their first film. Oh, okay. And I 1183 01:20:54,660 --> 01:20:55,800 don't know anything about it. 1184 01:20:55,920 --> 01:20:57,720 Is there anything? Is it out yet? 1185 01:20:58,200 --> 01:21:02,100 Yes, it's out. And it's China's influence on I 1186 01:21:02,520 --> 01:21:05,370 can't believe I haven't. So why have I not heard of this? Why am 1187 01:21:05,370 --> 01:21:07,860 I not watching it? What's going wrong with their marketing? 1188 01:21:10,230 --> 01:21:15,630 I don't know. That's a good question. I one thing is the 1189 01:21:15,630 --> 01:21:18,330 people that want to talk about this on the wrong side of the 1190 01:21:18,330 --> 01:21:27,660 argument. I wonder why. Why. I have a theory why. But I think 1191 01:21:27,660 --> 01:21:31,470 this is for the Joe Biden crowd. Right. So 1192 01:21:31,500 --> 01:21:33,090 the message is not getting to me. 1193 01:21:34,080 --> 01:21:36,690 Right. I think this is more for the Joe Biden crowd. You know, 1194 01:21:36,690 --> 01:21:39,630 Sam, for those people that may be pro Trump but willing to 1195 01:21:39,630 --> 01:21:43,320 swing and Joe Biden to show and it cleans up Joe's 1196 01:21:44,190 --> 01:21:51,600 trying to mess Yeah. I can't I can't believe that, that Obama 1197 01:21:51,600 --> 01:21:56,370 is is doing that. I mean, yeah, well, I guess he'd wants to 1198 01:21:56,370 --> 01:21:59,400 preserve his legacy through Joe. But geez. 1199 01:22:00,179 --> 01:22:02,399 Well, they probably said, Hey, man, you got to give us this 1200 01:22:02,399 --> 01:22:08,759 one. They're hurting right now. I mean, I mean, you brought it 1201 01:22:08,759 --> 01:22:13,859 up. I mean, they can't let Oh, I'm clipping the clock run 1202 01:22:13,859 --> 01:22:14,519 again, man. 1203 01:22:15,090 --> 01:22:18,240 She's gonna swoop in before you know it. She'll be all over us. 1204 01:22:18,720 --> 01:22:23,640 mo, mo, this was fantastic. It reminded me a lot of things that 1205 01:22:23,640 --> 01:22:28,290 I've studied in the past that I was I have applied as well. It 1206 01:22:28,290 --> 01:22:31,290 was great to bring this back. And man, you blew my mind about 1207 01:22:31,290 --> 01:22:35,220 the about the chicken conversation? And what I'd like 1208 01:22:35,220 --> 01:22:40,320 to know is do you think that this this is now going to become 1209 01:22:40,320 --> 01:22:45,390 more acceptable? To discuss thanks to this? What chicken? 1210 01:22:45,390 --> 01:22:46,110 You're like? 1211 01:22:46,260 --> 01:22:49,440 No, I don't. It was it was never about that. No, I 1212 01:22:49,440 --> 01:22:50,550 know. But isn't 1213 01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:55,590 it what I think is is? This is why I think, one, I think for 1214 01:22:55,590 --> 01:22:58,620 certain people, this conversation will never be a 1215 01:22:58,620 --> 01:23:01,890 comfortable conversation with any stereotype. I think that's 1216 01:23:01,890 --> 01:23:07,380 the same thing you see it with, not to list out certain ways you 1217 01:23:07,380 --> 01:23:09,600 see, with certain groups, we don't try to talk about our 1218 01:23:09,600 --> 01:23:13,440 power influence. We don't like to talk about our, you know, our 1219 01:23:13,440 --> 01:23:16,080 intelligence in certain subjects, you know, it's very 1220 01:23:16,080 --> 01:23:21,120 uncomfortable. So I don't think you will ever be comfortable. I 1221 01:23:21,120 --> 01:23:26,910 think this was a masterpiece of a nudge, because it broke that 1222 01:23:27,000 --> 01:23:30,060 threshold. That's the what, that's what I wanted to point 1223 01:23:30,060 --> 01:23:33,480 out is the natural reflex to say, I don't want to talk about 1224 01:23:33,480 --> 01:23:45,540 this. But if so. Ah, such No, such a powerful wave that you 1225 01:23:45,540 --> 01:23:50,850 get sucked up in it. I think, I think when Twitter or whoever 1226 01:23:50,850 --> 01:23:53,340 goes back, and they can show it every other people, they sell 1227 01:23:53,340 --> 01:23:57,930 advertisements who like, look, we were able to break this taboo 1228 01:23:57,930 --> 01:24:01,410 threshold didn't Well we could do for your company. I think 1229 01:24:01,410 --> 01:24:04,440 that was the play the play in place. I agree. 1230 01:24:04,620 --> 01:24:07,740 And I'm very curious now to see if they're going to try and 1231 01:24:07,740 --> 01:24:11,280 replicate this with other taboo topics. I can already think of a 1232 01:24:11,280 --> 01:24:16,320 couple which I'll withhold but and some may already be brewing, 1233 01:24:16,320 --> 01:24:19,290 which I haven't seen yet. And maybe other people figure this 1234 01:24:19,290 --> 01:24:25,410 out, and start doing it with their own properties. 1235 01:24:26,010 --> 01:24:28,380 Because I think that's where airbrush Edward Bernays was able 1236 01:24:28,380 --> 01:24:31,020 to say like, bro, I got limits smoking cigarettes. 1237 01:24:32,310 --> 01:24:39,570 And that's exactly how he said it to. Just imagine that. Well, 1238 01:24:39,600 --> 01:24:42,420 this has been fantastic mo I always learned so much chatting 1239 01:24:42,420 --> 01:24:43,920 with you. I love it. It's fantastic. 1240 01:24:44,759 --> 01:24:51,209 I'm glad you enjoy and I hope the listeners did too. Yeah. And 1241 01:24:51,659 --> 01:24:53,729 beware of the nudge. It's not like society 1242 01:24:53,000 --> 01:24:59,480 where of the nudge indeed. A quick mention that we are now 1243 01:24:59,480 --> 01:25:02,450 running this on To the value for value system, that means you 1244 01:25:02,450 --> 01:25:06,050 just listened for about an hour and 25 minutes, did you get any 1245 01:25:06,050 --> 01:25:12,380 value out of it? If you did translate that into money. You 1246 01:25:12,380 --> 01:25:15,380 could have spent an hour and a half watching a Netflix movie 1247 01:25:15,380 --> 01:25:20,990 for $5 for 99. You know, consider donating that to the 1248 01:25:20,990 --> 01:25:24,290 show so that Moe and I can continue to produce it does take 1249 01:25:24,290 --> 01:25:27,890 effort we're putting value in. We'd like to get value back and 1250 01:25:27,890 --> 01:25:30,080 we'll be talking more about that in future episodes, you can 1251 01:25:30,080 --> 01:25:36,050 donate to the show at MoeFactz.com M O E F A C T Z 1252 01:25:36,110 --> 01:25:42,320 .com through Paypal or cash app. All right, Moe, thank you again. 1253 01:25:44,250 --> 01:25:47,940 As always, it's a pleasure. And I always say pay attention to 1254 01:25:47,940 --> 01:25:50,130 everything and the truth will reveal itself. 1255 01:25:50,360 --> 01:25:53,660 And make sure you subscribe to this podcast and your your 1256 01:25:53,660 --> 01:25:58,220 podcast app. And we always tweet out new episodes so please let 1257 01:25:58,220 --> 01:26:01,400 everybody know retweet that and get the message out. We'll talk 1258 01:26:01,400 --> 01:26:04,160 to you next week. Thanks again most talk to you soon man. All 1259 01:26:04,160 --> 01:26:05,570 right, see you later. All right, bye bye.